Curse

LichReiit · Aug 14, 2005, 06:23 PM // 18:23

Many have told me that Guild Wars is a game reliant on skill, not time put into your character. This is one of the prime aspects that drew me to a game like this. As I had played many other grinds such as Runescape and Everquest in the past and was rather dismayed.
Now I as I expieriance more and more of the game I am beginning to think less and less of this idea of GW being skill based. A prime location where this is blatantly apparent is the Arenas. More exact, Ascalon Arena. Here we find a wide mixture of various gamers. The casual gamer, and the hardcore gamer who has just started his new character and is testing out his new build. Now theoretically they should be able to coexist ,correct? The casual gamer should be able to stand a fighting chance against the hardcore gamer and a balance should be achieved. This has not been the case. The hardcore gamers will repeditively crush the casual gamers. At some points I have seen problems so bad that the Hardcore gamer cannot, litterally, cannot be beat. A single warrior has taken down a missmatched team many times in my expieriances. This warrior did not win out of his "skill" or anything to that matter. It was out of his prior knowledge of the game that the casual gamer did not have access to. For example, the warrior would be decked out in Draknor Armor because he had been run there after getting out of Pre-Searing. He could also have a godly fellblade purchased on his main character. All this doesnt seem right to me.
Please feel free to discuss this topic.

- Happy posting ^_^;

Sagius Truthbarron · Aug 14, 2005, 06:36 PM // 18:36

Well, they can't just restrict people from the areana just becuase they have another character. Sure, Droknar's Armor could be not allowed, but who is to say that a new player shouldn't be able to find or be given a purple or even gold, low req weapon and then play the game with it?

Just becuase someone has more experience in the game doesn't mean they are more skilled. I see alot of W/mo in Fissure armor that are complete idiots and probably bought all the crafting items for it on e-bay.

What I'm getting at is that you don't need to play the game 10 hours a day for two months straight to know how the game works. Of course people who don't know how to play this or any other game that well will be easily dominated by more experienced players.

I don't think there should be a way of stopping people from entering the low level areanas just becuase they know how to play.

LichReiit · Aug 14, 2005, 06:44 PM // 18:44

This post isn't just about Ascalon Arena. I was merely using it as an example to show how the game accually lacks skill. When I think of a skill based game I think of a FPS - which requires quick reflexes. Some people have them, and others dont. This is a large factor that goes into some skill based. Some people are good at soccer because they have strong legs. Some people are good at baseball because they have strong arms (or steroids :x). Get my point?

Or maybe im just a ranting lunatic and this thread should be shut down :\

Jak o · Aug 14, 2005, 06:56 PM // 18:56

Using ascalon arena as an example does not show anything. Ascalon arena is not supposed to be just about skill, people aren't even the same lvl. Look at tombs/team arena/gvg, here a skilled team will win every single time no matter if they use premades, if the opponents are not skilled. There is a problem with how long it takes to get items unlocked, which has the result that two teams equally skilled, or near, wont have an equal fight if one of the teams has used the time it takes to unlock a large part of their account.

Ensign · Aug 14, 2005, 07:18 PM // 19:18

The game is skill based once you get through the grind. Until then, it's some combination of player skill and equipment availability.

Peace,
-CxE

Shinsei · Aug 14, 2005, 07:25 PM // 19:25

They forgot to put a very important word on the box, and that's "point". This game is skill point based.

Sayshina · Aug 14, 2005, 07:44 PM // 19:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ensign

The game is skill based once you get through the grind. Until then, it's some combination of player skill and equipment availability.

Peace,
-CxE

I strongly disagree with this statement. This game is far from skill based. It ONLY becomes skill based once the player community has all skills unlocked, and is actualy on an even footing. When some players have Droknar's armor and multiple elites and other players have starting skills there is no possible way for skill to enter into it. The arguement that "there are ways around..." in no way changes the fact that one side is inside its own endzone, on 4th down with 50 yards to go and 7 seconds on the clock. Sure it can be done, hypotheticaly. It just can't be done realisticaly.

This game is not skill based, and hasn't even really pretended to be from release onward. They still talk the talk, but they obviously decided to move the emphasis away from skill to make the carebears happy. Probably as they don't tend to have much in the way of skill, and this sort of thing makes them feel better.

The OP was not claiming there should be a way of separating more experienced players from less experienced ones. He was claiming that any game supposedly "skill based" should be a game where the experience doesn't matter. I once played in a pickup game with Mia Hamm. She's about 1/2 my size, and was in college at the time. She's also possibly the best womens soccer player ever. I got schooled. The same happened when I was in a P/U football game when one of the guys on the other side turned out to be a former starting linebacker in college. I don't even remember which college, and doubt it would have mattered.

His choice of what qualifies as "skill" on the other hand leaves much to be desired. The idea that fast reflexes = skill is something I take exception to. If you would like to see the difference between quick twitch reflexes and skill please watch just about any old veteran school some young punk fresh out of college. The kid may have the reflexes, but he doesn't yet have the skill. When I was about 16 and becoming a fairly decent motorcycle racer I met Eddie Lawson and Kenny Robert, one a 3 time world champion, the other a future 4 time champ. I was younger, most likely had the better reflexes, and never for a second believed I could take either one of them.

The one are where this game would have shined as skill based was in the slower pace compared to shooters, with skill selection and their use, along with timing and combo's, being what skill and tactical awareness is all about. It only required that we all have access to the same skill sets, which we did once. Sadly, they decided to eliminate that in the name of extending the fun for the carebears, and hopefully making them slightly more competitive.

PieXags · Aug 14, 2005, 07:53 PM // 19:53

The game is as skill based as possible in an RPG game.

*note that a game such as guild wars can never be as skill dependant as say, an FPS game, so trying to compare the two as if they're supposed to be equal when it comes to player skill dependancy is uh...pretty dumb. It's an RPG, a competitive online RPG, and even though everyone isn't on "even footing" when it comes to skills unlocked, you're not going to get much more skill based even if it were a UAS button game, simply because the majority of all "skill" in this game is done before battle and is highly dependant on the equipment...as in any RPG.

For an RPG game, this game is the best when it comes to skill over hours played.

Weezer_Blue · Aug 14, 2005, 07:55 PM // 19:55

True in the beta... Now? Not so much.'

If you rule out skill aquisition.
And runes
And mods
And gankers
And people that copy builds off of forums such as these and use them

Then yes... But that also places you back in beta.

Ensign · Aug 14, 2005, 08:03 PM // 20:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sayshina

I strongly disagree with this statement. This game is far from skill based. It ONLY becomes skill based once the player community has all skills unlocked, and is actualy on an even footing.

I'm sorry, did you actually read the one line I typed before going off on your rant? I said it was skill based *once you get past all the grind*. Which, from what I can tell, you actually agree with.

Peace,
-CxE

Aug 14, 2005, 08:05 PM // 20:05

Another topic down the drain

Dax · Aug 14, 2005, 08:07 PM // 20:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by LichReiit

This post isn't just about Ascalon Arena. I was merely using it as an example to show how the game accually lacks skill. When I think of a skill based game I think of a FPS - which requires quick reflexes. Some people have them, and others dont. This is a large factor that goes into some skill based. Some people are good at soccer because they have strong legs. Some people are good at baseball because they have strong arms (or steroids :x). Get my point?

Or maybe im just a ranting lunatic and this thread should be shut down :\

I think you have a valid concern.
I often wonder what they actually meant by a game of skill. By skill do they mean skill by the player or in-game skills, armor, ect? I'm not a big GW PvP player but in the PvP battles I've played it seemed to be more about the in-games skills, armor, weapons ect.

The have been times however when I got into a group that communicated that when we worked together player skill set in. I understand your point, but people with high end armor ect in the lower level arenas do give the impression that it's not player skill based. I'm sure skilled player can still open up a can of whoop ass naked (in game that is). Unfortunatel the game players do not always convey that message very well.

Ensign · Aug 14, 2005, 08:12 PM // 20:12

Ok maybe I'm just in a bad mood today but the stupid is really getting to me today. The random bitching threads are pointless. We have like a billion of them in every forum. If you have a complaint at least use complete sentences.

Peace,
-CxE