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Old Jul 22, 2005, 03:25 AM // 03:25   #181
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Originally Posted by Teufel Eldritch
Okay how about this? You(general 'you' not anyone in particular) play the profession you want to play & others will play the profession they want to play. If you(again general) think Necros suck, good for you. Others don't. Others like the Necro.
Point of this discussion is to determine whether necros are good or not. We're discussing right now. True you can play what you want but unfortunately that's not the point. In any case, if you want to run an entire primary dedicated to a useless attribute go ahead.

All I read here is people defending the most retarded points and it seems the only reason they defend it is because they've played it for so long and now realise it is bad. That's called fear of change and it's a very negative thing.

Necros suck, get over it
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Old Jul 22, 2005, 04:18 AM // 04:18   #182
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Originally Posted by Aphalite
I cannot believe that some people are still missing that more starting energy > gaining back energy via SR
The problem here is that ES > SR isn't true in all situations. SR scales upward in mana generation based on the number of combat participants involved. In smaller fights, ES is definitely better than SR. However, in big 8v8+ fights, lots of toons will die, whether on your team, the opposing team, minions, pets, etc., but stuff will die in PvP. The unknown variables are death rate and quantity.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Aphalite
SR energy is circumstantial, you are unable to tap it until someone dies, ES energy can be used immediately to do useful things, which will probably create SR energy for you, however, by then it'll be a tipped scale battle anyway
SR energy is event(death) driven, so no, it isn't circumstantial. In case you haven't realized this yet, I'm looking at this from a process-flow perspective. Death isn't occasional in PvP... it WILL happen in every fight.

I do agree that a necro can't depend on SR as easily as ER since casualty-timing is not easily predicted mid-combat.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Aphalite
Also, for the guy who keeps claiming necro can do anythign witht he right support, no one goes into pvp with 7 builds that are centered around a necro
You're probably correct here, especially when team members don't know each other too well.
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Old Jul 22, 2005, 04:50 AM // 04:50   #183
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Originally Posted by lord_shar
. Death isn't occasional in PvP... it WILL happen in every fight.
If you can tell me the exact time when someone will die then SR is the best line ever. Until then it's trash.
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Old Jul 22, 2005, 04:54 AM // 04:54   #184
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Originally Posted by Odd Sock
Necros suck, get over it
Opinions are like aholes. Get over yourself.
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Old Jul 22, 2005, 04:55 AM // 04:55   #185
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Originally Posted by Teufel Eldritch
Opinions are like aholes. Get over yourself.
Sorry I can bring a counter-point. Thanks for the flame though
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Old Jul 22, 2005, 05:06 AM // 05:06   #186
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Originally Posted by Odd Sock
If you can tell me the exact time when someone will die then SR is the best line ever. Until then it's trash.
I disagree. You don't need an exact time-of-death to optimize SR -- a necro casting spells during combat will obviously have less than full mana whenever SR triggers. The problem is that deaths will not be as plentiful to fuel SR in smaller group fights. This won't be the case in larger scale combat scenarios.
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Old Jul 22, 2005, 05:06 AM // 05:06   #187
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Sorry I can bring a counter-point. Thanks for the flame though
What flame? All I'm saying is that everybody has a opinion and that you seem to think yours matters more than others when it does not.
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Old Jul 22, 2005, 05:07 AM // 05:07   #188
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Originally Posted by Odd Sock

Necros suck, get over it
I don't have a particularly favorable impression of necros either, but don't put it so bluntly.
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Old Jul 22, 2005, 05:22 AM // 05:22   #189
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Originally Posted by Odd Sock
If you can tell me the exact time when someone will die then SR is the best line ever. Until then it's trash.
umm one of the best reasons fo SR is when u r a death Necro. Bone fiends cost 25 energy a piece and bone horors cost 15. if u have 12-15 soul reaping and someone dies u will most likely be able to pull out a bone fiend out ur ass, or at least a bone horror. And since when does a have full energy. SR is not 100% efficient but saying that u need to know when someone dies in order for it to be useful is moronic. And if u wanna know when someone dies just look at ur energy bar.if it jumps by 12 well its cause of cause someone died. and btw soul reaping does not have to be used at all i dont. The Special attribute is not the main choice for a primary char. Like the Warriors Strength is nice but i hate the energy so i dont pick it. And if u dont like it well u just dont like being support. like many people dont like being mesmers or monks. Don't say the class sucks if u just #1 dont #2 want #3 or are good at playing it.
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Old Jul 22, 2005, 05:42 AM // 05:42   #190
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Soul Reaping can be as useful as Energy Storage, if not moreso in GvG or Tombs- I've had 5-minute long battles for the flagstand in GvG versus top 50 guilds, where there were 4-5 deaths on either side before a team got enough advantage to push the other team back- in a situation like this, I'll take Soul Reaping over Energy storage 9 times out of 10- that level 10 soul reaping just gained you 80-100 energy, whereas a level 10 energy storage gave 30... In even battles with skilled teams, having someone die on either side is nowhere near winning/losing the battle, at least not until resurrection capabilities are stopped. If someone dies, you get them back up, and go on, and having the extra energy can be extremely helpful.

However, 4vs4 arena, there aren't enough deaths, resurrects, etc for Soul Reaping to usually make much of a difference. Resurrects are rarer, and skill level between teams(or luck in team composition in random arena) generally decides the game far more than having a bit extra or less energy on one character. For arena, the only real reason to choose a Necromancer primary is for the bonuses in an attribute line. Duration on hexes can be nice there, since few people even bother with hex removal in arena, and the direct-damage skills get a great benefit from an additional 4 attribute levels. Having 16 curses for a necro using some hexes(faintheartedness, suffering) and Feast of Corruption, Desecrate Enchantments, etc is worthwhile. However, something like a minion build is a waste of everyones time generally, since there are few corpses, and if you're killing enemies enough to raise a significant number of minions, you could have already won the match with a non-minion build, and if your allies are dying that much, you've already lost.

Necromancers definately have their place in the game- it's just that making a good necromancer build is generally much more challenging than making a good build for a different class. Necros are much like Mesmers with a different focus- just like I'd prefer to go mesmer prime for 16 domination on many of my mesmer builds even without using fast-casting than to go E/Me and get an extra 30 energy, but with only 12 domination. What skills you bring and how you use those skills matters far more than a little energy here or there. I'll take a good necro on my team long before I'll take a crappy elementalist, but I'll take a new player playing an elementalist before a new player playing a Necromancer. If it's a choice between a skilled necro and a skilled elementalist, it depends on what I need more on the team.
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Old Jul 22, 2005, 06:03 AM // 06:03   #191
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Originally Posted by Linkie
So with no problems, you will have enough energy to put up enough hexes to make it impossible to remove untill Nature's Renewal is back up? How do you plan on covering the important hex when it'll take you more than 2 seconds to get the cover hex up?
Please exaggerate, it is just so helpful to this topic really. There are enough good cover hexes that are cheap and have the big instant cast.



Quote:
Originally Posted by Linkie
So, usually when you throw up your awesome wither + malaise your target will probably already be a bit low on energy. To give you a good case, let's say 20 energy. He sees your awesome wither + malaise combo hit him, and sees all his energy regen pips dissappear. So, he's carrying a +10 energy staff. He casts 2 spam skills (energy each) and then changes to carrying no weapons. His energy hits 0, wither and malaise ends, he changes back to the staff, and boom, he's back to 10 energy with all his 4 pips of energy regen. The swap will probably take him somewhere between 1 and 2 seconds. 'Oh noes'. (Not to mention all the energy you just wasted yourself).
Maybe I just should reply with nothing but situations that make my argument look good, because those are obviously the only situations that exist. Perhaps I could, I don't know, open up with those two spells? There just so happens to be a few people that carry focus items that incur a bit of an energy regen penalty for a boost of max energy. Working to get an ele close to rock bottom is a pretty good way to make them useless, especially when they have to weapon switch to get their big 4 energy regen back and incur a max energy penalty while waiting for enough mana to fuel their big hitting skills. Plus, this period during the switch will take someone out for what could be a crucial period of time.



Quote:
Originally Posted by Linkie
Look up, and you'll see why curses are useless. The only skill usable in the current metagame you described is rend enchantments (which is less usable than before since NR means a lot less enchantments are being run). So you might aswell just slap it on a secondary, you don't really need more than max 3-4 enchantment removals on it anyway.
Are you kidding me? Lets look at just one of the ones I mentioned. Lingering curse cuts the healing by half and sucks enchantments dry. Pretty good way to cut a monk down to size in clutch times there smart guy. Try and deny the usefulness of that and your just lieing to support a blind argument really.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Linkie
Wow, a smashing 20 dps and you only wasted two skill slots, one of them even being an elite? Sure you don't want to put flare in there as well?
And it heals you too? And it heals you too? You mean it heals you when you're taking no damage? Or does it heal you when all your monks are dead, as obviously, 14 health per seconds is so awesome, who will ever be able to kill you?
Wow, I am so glad that this pile of fluff made it into an argument. Perhaps if I go around repeating what you say in a sarcastic fashion I won't have to worry about coming up with something of any value. Good for you, way to raise the bar.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Linkie
So, when are you planning on fighting a team of 3 warriors? Besides, all the skills you'd need for supporting knocklocks are skills you might as well slap on a secondary. None of them requires speccing over 12 (most of them not even 12), neither will SR help you with the energy to cast them.
I am simply showing that warriors are more effective with the support, so much more that it is worth sacrificing a damage dealer. Your not much of an abstract thinker are you?
When you have an entire line made to let warriors work their opponents, a 12 level is important. Your highest attribs should reflect the majority of your skills. Don't think so much in strict requirements either. I mean, you may only need one skill to support a warrior, but when you can choose between simple, unfocused support and devistation from your warriors what do you want?

This is really just stupid. Your trying to argue through means of stating opinions as facts. "Rend enchantments is really the only useful skill" is a prime example of this smoking pile of idiotic crap. I bet if I close my eyes to all the useful skills of other classes and say "This class only has this useful skill, that is it" I can convince myself necros haul everyone. How retarted are you man? 1 dimensional thinking is reeking up this post thanks to you.

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Originally Posted by Luggage
Prim necro instead of mes because?
Oh please, I am sorry you had to sacrifice saying anything constructive so you could have your little pitch here. I Created an entire line that works using only necro skills. That is why prim necro instead of a mesmer there smart man. If the majority of your skills are necro, go with necro primary, if they are mesmer than go mesmer. Don't be retarted.
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Old Jul 22, 2005, 06:18 AM // 06:18   #192
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Originally Posted by entropy
umm one of the best reasons fo SR is when u r a death Necro. Bone fiends cost 25 energy a piece and bone horors cost 15.
Why oh why would you run random minions ? Only time you want those is when you run that 25+ Bone Horror build that's countered by Balth's Aura or Heal Seed. In any case when you run that build, someone is putting BiP on you. Regardless, that's a very specific build. So yea I'll run SR for a shitty strat ? Seriously minions suck more than necros and pets do.

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Originally Posted by entropy
And since when does a have full energy.
Whatever that's supposed to mean

Quote:
Originally Posted by entropy
SR is not 100% efficient but saying that u need to know when someone dies in order for it to be useful is moronic.
Right, I'm moronic cause I don't run minions ? And if something isn't 100% effective then it is trash. When you'll know shit about competitive PvP you'll know that you want EVERYTHING down to your staff head to be 100% effective.

Quote:
Originally Posted by entropy
And if u wanna know when someone dies just look at ur energy bar.if it jumps by 12 well its cause of cause someone died.
You missed the point I clearly brought up. Read my post again then bother replying. BTW if I want to know when something dies I'll look for faction or experience to pop up.

Quote:
Originally Posted by entropy
and btw soul reaping does not have to be used at all i dont.
What on earth does that mean? If you mean you don't have to use it then good job Einstein, there aren't any skills linked to SR. If you have SR but use it at 0 spec then gg: good choice for a primary.

Quote:
Originally Posted by entropy
The Special attribute is not the main choice for a primary char.
Sure buddy, yuo also run rangers with 0 expertise ? Maybe you run the primary for runes but necro skills are efficient starting at 8. Why use runes for an 8 or 10 att ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by entropy
Like the Warriors Strength is nice but i hate the energy so i dont pick it.
That's good to know. By saying that you've just pommeled yourself to the ground. It's called a zealous grip and adrenal skills and energy becomes great.

Quote:
Originally Posted by entropy
And if u dont like it well u just dont like being support like many people dont like being mesmers or monks
That's not why I'm bashing necros. I'm bashing them because their attributes make their skills good at relatively low levels (no need for runes) and SR is bad because it doesn't consistently bring energy.

Quote:
Originally Posted by entropy
Don't say the class sucks if u just #1 dont #2 want #3 or are good at playing it.
Make more sense when you post please.

I also urge you to read the forum guidelines. There's a clear section that specifically says not to use dumb abreviated words like u instead of you
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Old Jul 22, 2005, 06:27 AM // 06:27   #193
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Originally Posted by Odd Sock
...<SNIP>...

That's not why I'm bashing necros. I'm bashing them because their attributes make their skills good at relatively low levels (no need for runes) and SR is bad because it doesn't consistently bring energy.

...<SNIP>...
I believe the key phrase is "SR is bad because it doesn't consistently yield energy in all situations." In large scale PvP, it WILL net lots of mana consistently, but small skirmishes, don't bet on it.
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Old Jul 22, 2005, 06:28 AM // 06:28   #194
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Ok, this is sad. Enisgn explains in his usual, noncondescending fashion - almost every single argument for and against primary necros - and a couple posts below, "inexperienced players" repeat everything that is SO wrong. If you want to make PRO necro arguments, look at Ensigns post - he made lots of them - only that they make sense, and yours dont.

We really need an "iQ only + approved" forum...



Oh and btw ... Ensign quoted my post. twice.

Anyone wants to design a T-Shirt with that?
Last edited by Saerden; Jul 22, 2005 at 06:31 AM // 06:31..
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Old Jul 22, 2005, 06:36 AM // 06:36   #195
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Originally Posted by Ensign
I think you're insane. There are a grand total of two relevant hexes with one second cast times - Faintheartedness, which is nice in arena but too limited in scope for 8v8, and Defile Flesh, which I agree is solid and still worth running under Nature's Renewal (particularly because you don't expect it to stick long anyway).
The longer cast time may be a bit debilitating but is hardly reason to think that any curse is not worth using. There are plenty of skills worth using through the big cast time, you just choose to try and believe they don't exis
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ensign
Even without Nature's Renewal, the Hex line gets hit hard by energy costs and cooldowns. Teams are getting better at hex removal, and nothing scary is sticking for very long. Internally we've discussed how we weren't really fond of Backfire even before the Nature's Renewal fix, because it just ate a couple seconds while someone Smited/Inspired it and that wasn't worth the investment. Now if a Fast Cast Backfire isn't worth running because it needs to stick to be effective, why would you seriously consider running Mark of Pain, Weaken Armor, Rigor Mortis, or half the Curse line for that matter? They're hexes that need to stick to matter, and they just don't stick. Toss in Nature's Renewal, and why bother?
Cover hexes are popular for me, and hex removals have cooldown too. You honestly make it sound like as soon as a hex is on every player on your team is working to get it off, because every single person has a hex removal right there and instant reaction time to a little pink arrow pointing down. Not to mention that any hexes that hold a cooldown are ones I save for when someone calls it. Someone says "This monk is blocking, rend him or rigor him" that is when I do it, when it is clutch.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ensign
And, to bring up the old argument again - of the stuff that you really want from this line, Shadow of Fear, Rend Enchantments, Defile Flesh, and the like, how much of it do you really want at high attribute levels? I'd rather stash those on a secondary. The only time I've ever really wanted a Necro primary for a Curses skill was for Spiteful Spirit, and that was a fun arena build
Opinions are facts these days, who knew? You are right, because you THINK that there are only 3 useful curses that must mean there ARE only three useful curses, especially what with different builds these days.



Quote:
Originally Posted by Ensign
Wither and Malaise takes about a second to rip off of myself if need be in the middle of battle. Is fifteen energy and four seconds of cast time worth stopping me from casting for a second while I pull them off at no cost? I don't think so, and laugh at Necros performing hard self-energy denial by stacking those two hexes on me. A boring Energy Burn would be more effective, and that skill is pretty bad itself.
Yeah, I never really use em in tandem, or much at all. I find room for something a bit better, but as I said that clutch period of no healing/casting can mean a thing or two. Plus, your energy is not always going to be right at the bottom of the barrel, so taking your focus and weapon off may not always do it. not as long as you are over 20.[/quote]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ensign
I do think Malaise is somewhat interesting if used on Warriors or Rangers. Unlike casters, those two classes usually don't have a brainless 'swap to an empty weapon set' solution for getting rid of the Malaise so they just have to deal with it, and that makes the skill incredibly strong. Wither is simply a worse, elite version of Malaise so I wouldn't seriously consider running that.
I can agree, I wouldn't use wither as my elite, that is for damn sure.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ensign
Even ignoring Nature's Renewal, Mesmers are just better at fighting single dumb enchantments. Removing an enchantment and gaining energy is just plain better than spending 10 energy to pull off a 5 energy or whole party enchantment. Single target removal has terrible recharges, though, so it isn't like any of these are effective counters. If you want to fight Guardian spam you want to use, you guessed it, Nature's Renewal.
Rigor mortis isn't a single target removal. It is good to toss on if rend is on the cooldown and guardian and aegis keep coming up in a heated moment.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ensign
Realistically, the enchantment removal that I want from the Necro is either Rend Enchantments, which was about as good as it was going to get at 4 Curses and has been rendered obsolete by Nature's Renewal, and Chilblains, which does its job at 0 Curses and, yet again, is obsolete with Nature's Renewal around. But even forgetting Renewal all you're looking at are Necro secondaries for some enchantment removal, something I've been advocating for months.
Removing enchantments is the only helpful thing necro curses can do. poisoning yourself, coughing up 25 energy, and not being able to do it on a defined target is much better than rending.



Quote:
Originally Posted by Ensign
Defile Flesh I do think is interesting if you're running a spike build - it isn't a hex that gets hit particularly hard by Nature's Renewal because you don't expect it to stick anyway. I wouldn't take Necro *just* for Defile Flesh, but if you have one on the team anyway it's a good role player. Lingering Curse, Nature's Renewal, etc.
Lingering curse is pretty good too, depending on your build and if your feeling that as an elite. It also takes off all enchantments and has way less cooldown.



Quote:
Originally Posted by Ensign
I liked Order and Dual Order builds back in May, before they fixed Nature's Renewal. Man, I'm sounding like a broken record here, aren't I?
Barbs is a pretty good way to increase damage per swing isn't it? It sticks pretty long too...



Quote:
Originally Posted by Ensign
Mesmers are an order of magnitude better at this.
Yeah, but it depends on what effects you want too. Your right, I woudl rather have backfire than a necro hex in that sit, it is just to go with an all necro skill build.



Quote:
Originally Posted by Ensign
Wells have uncontrollable, consistently bad positioning in GvG, and are uncastable in tombs because every corpse explodes before it hits the ground in Tombs.
Exaggeration in tombs to say the least.



Quote:
Originally Posted by Ensign
You are not seriously advocating using Well of Power in competitive PvP. C'mon man, BiP is sitting right there staring at you.
No, blood ritual or BiP is what I was getting at.



Quote:
Originally Posted by Ensign
Two is fine. Four is not. That leaves you with Defile Flesh and, um, Defile Flesh.
Not really, don't act like the time is more devestating than it is. I have pushed through it quite well time and time again.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Ensign
Life Transfer is complete and utter shit. Fourteen damage per second on a single target is negligible - a good Monk team is prepared to heal him for 200+ every second to keep up with a damage spike. Oh, and it has a 30 second recharge? What trash, Life Siphon is better. At least that can infect several people at once, spreading around the DoT and forcing a Monk into triage.
more like 133 with defile flesh :P. Yeah, I don't use life transfer or a whole lot of DOT unless it can spam and spread. I should argue what I use, not go into what I don't.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Ensign
Indeed, I was having some fun with this last night in fact. Spiteful Spirit, Empathy, Price of Failure on a Warrior, then just stand in front of him and watch him explode. It's hilarious.
lol, we can agree on that.

Although I disagree with you on how many useful curses there are, I do agree that a necro's use in tombs is pretty specialized and uncommon what with the kind of builds happening. I just don't like them being dismissed as useless, that is just not true.
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Old Jul 22, 2005, 06:38 AM // 06:38   #196
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Wow have u ever seen bone fiends in Tombs? A few weeks ago A korean team I saw had around 40+ of them running everywhere and tell me they suck then when you are getting killed by them. Really 40 dmg multiplied by X amount even if ur a warrior is a decent amount. hell even if all of them are not attacking u its a decent amount of dmg. U just Said above that SR is the whole reason of becoming necro. Are u stupid how bout RUNES. Cant use them if its ur secondary. By consistent u mean effiecntly btw. Plus in many ways SR is better then ES. It can bring in energy not allow you to dish out tons of dmg yet end up with 5 energy waiting for regen. making ur special attribute the whole thing is the dumbest s*** i have EVER heard. EXPERTISE yea expertise is actually my favorite. Its REQUIRED if u are actually gonna USE any of ur ranger skills. what about Fast Cast Im sure not every mesmer has an especially high attribute? does it suck 2? if so then do mesmers suck as well? Plus like an energy saving skill such as elemental attunement SR lets u cast ur skills and when/if u kill the enemy u get energy back and move straight on toward ur next target. My last point I dont know if i can make this ANY clearer. this WILL be repetetive. #1 you Dont want to play the class cause u just dont like being support. #2 Wont it isnt ur style same concept at number one. #3 Can't you just suck at it. You are telling me SR sucks and yet a Zealous hilt is all that better? Its when u hit. what about protection spells/whirling defense/ tons of others plus energy will NEVER become that plentiful when u r a warrior. Sure adrenal doesnt require energy but it when u hit or take dmg. hitting key thing. Dont know about u but Warriors are a waste of space miss half the time against any decent team
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Old Jul 22, 2005, 07:46 AM // 07:46   #197
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Originally Posted by Aphalite
Also, for the guy who keeps claiming necro can do anythign witht he right support, no one goes into pvp with 7 builds that are centered around a necro
I'm not a guy, dear.

You are correct. Like every other class, the necro brings a skill lineup that fits well into the build theme of the entire group as a whole (such as smiting / AoE). There are some team builds that really dont need a primary necro. But there are team builds that really dont need a primary warrior or ranger, either. Are mesmers, monks and elementalists the only useful classes? I dont think so.
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Old Jul 22, 2005, 08:19 AM // 08:19   #198
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Great job, you've finally gotten the point of this post

Now, you might not admit this, but indirectly you just said that the 3 most useful classes are mesmers, monks, and elementalists, I'd put ranger in there too, now look back at the thread topic, and you will see where I am going with this

necro is good, but it's overlooked because it's not as good/useful
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Old Jul 22, 2005, 08:22 AM // 08:22   #199
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Originally Posted by sino-soviet
Facts eh? Well I'm glad someone finally brought up something factual.
It is as factual or as speculative as anything you say, or anything anyone else says, as we dont have empiric test result numbers with mediums over different builds and different matches.

Quote:
Originally Posted by sino-soviet
#4 is nonsense and is a worthless generalization.
Sorry, but I doubt anyone is going to post entire team builds where primary necros are an important factor. To explain the usefulness of the primary necro, every skill bar of every team member would have to be posted, as well as the timing and strategy, and that is not going to happen for obvious reasons. My tone was probably a bit off towards the end, bad mood kicked in. Sorry.

Quote:
Originally Posted by sino-soviet
#1 is possible, but maybe you should mention how much effort it takes to pull it off rather than presenting it as a general circumstance which happens all the time.
It can be MADE to work often, but once again, no, I am not going to post entire team builds and strategy. Not going to happen. Even if I was not worried about copycats, I have better things to do with my time.


Quote:
Originally Posted by sino-soviet
And you agree with ensign eh? Funny how what he said is basically that necros are usually better left as a secondary becaue of a couple factors, and you claim just the opposite. You agree with Ensign, you basically agree with me..
Wrong. There are fine but substantial differences in how Ensign presents an opinion, and how others do it. I'm not going to go back, re-read all those threads and list up all the arguments I agree and disagree with. I agree that primary necros dont fit well into many builds (but the same goes for 2 other classes). I disagree that primary necros are useless, and that primary elementalists are a better choice.

Quote:
Originally Posted by sino-soviet
Not once did I ever say necros suck. Never. I merely said energy storage was a better primary attribute to have overall, and I prefer an elementalist primary.
I played primary elementalists for probably 150+ hours, and sorry, energy storage is sometimes better, but then in the next match it does not help much at all. Runes are another factor, sometimes the team build calls for a specific timing which means your hexes need to last soandso long. I'd take 35 second hexes over 20 second ones pretty much anytime, unless I am just using them to cover others with. A primary elementalist cannot spam putrid (as in, cast it 5 times in 8 seconds) and still have energy to benefit the team in other ways.

Quote:
Originally Posted by sino-soviet
As far as runes, I think its been pointed out that attribute points for a necro matter less than lets say, an elementalist.
Sometimes, yes. But not in some of the builds I have seen working. Sorry, disagreed.

Quote:
Originally Posted by sino-soviet
Now that you see I am arguing solely for a necromancer usually better as a secondary, maybe we can get somewhere with this. I don't think you have much of a right to accuse me of disregarding the "facts" of others.
I did see that from start, dear. And I disagreed from start. So no, I doubt we are getting anywhere with this.

You dont have much of a right to decide whether or not someone else's arguments are fact or not. Experiences differ with changes in maps, overall strategy used, people involved, and detail changes in skill / attribute setups that make a large differences. You dont have much of a right to call someone else's experiences speculation if you have not tried and experienced the same thing.
Celes Tial is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Jul 22, 2005, 08:25 AM // 08:25   #200
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im in love with Blood ritual/Blood is power necros makes my monk way better with unlimited energy
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