Curse

Elistan Theocrat · Aug 22, 2005, 05:08 AM // 05:08

Mod's can we get Yuan's posts deleted? They are completely off topic, he even says as much. He still makes no effort what so ever to provide any support to his claim that prot bond is not broken, and has ignored a request of mine to take further insults and or replys that are not regarding prot bond to PM. I suppose he feels he had to have the last word telling me to take it to PM.. Please before this thread gets any further off topic, Some Moderation. Feel free to also delete any of my responses to him, as its not like he's argued merits of prot bond so I realize my responses to him are off topic as well.

Thanks!

wolfy3455 · Aug 22, 2005, 05:26 AM // 05:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yuan

Point taken. I showed no proofs protective bond is broken. Also, point taken too that you are against me because obviously you share the same view as the OP. Wonder why...

Intelligent people that begin looking at things objectively tend to reach similar conclusions unless the testing is flawed.

Quote:

My point wasnt really to prove protective bond is broken. It may be broken. But my point is why you guys care so much about it and why Elistan takes it so personally even though he used to do it. As i said i read a contradiction in his post. That's a fact. Want to ignore it? Fine with me...ill ignore you.
I just dont like hipocrisy, dont really care about protective bond.

I assumed more than the op?? Sure i did...Believe what you will. I dont really like talking to biased people you know. So ill just ignore the bias.

You chastised the OP for making assumptions that you assumed he made. You're a hypocrite. Ellistan has biases but a hypocrite attacking someone on the grounds of him being a hypocrite... thats a bit messed up.

Quote:

Btw...did you say just monks left in the game? Thats quite funny. As someone already said here, exaggerations dont really help here. But i can understand why you would exxagerate to prove your point. And really man...All your points are exaggerated. And again...you miss the point of about the argument saying "what economy". There is no economy...It doesnt really affect "economy" in any great way. This is a virtual economy.
All this does is make some items cheaper, which makes the game more fun to most people. And i believe a game is about fun. This doesnt ruin the "economy", this just changes it into a new "economy".

An economy will form in any online game. It is usually a mix between unchecked capitalism and a traditional economy(barter system). The capitalism comes from the fact that we're used to needing something to exchange for our goods. We or the company will form a currency.

More gold is entering the economy than is leaving. In real life, the version of this would be when a government prints more money. The value then goes down. This used to be based on precious metals but in modern times it is based on percieved value. There are a lot of complicated factors in this value as well but I don't want to hurt your brain too badly. As you seem to understand the often preached supply and demand, you should understand why the value goes down. This effect is called inflation. There are healthy levels of inflation but at the rate gold comes into the GW economy without leaving, well, in real life this would cause your dollar bills to be of the same value as the paper its printed on. This is generally considered bad and a government would attempt to control it.

This is all you really need to know, but if on the off chance you're interested in economics you can look it up, or if your really desperate, I'd be happy to answer any questions you may have via PM though my knowledge is limited to what I remember from a high school elective.

Sekkira · Aug 22, 2005, 05:27 AM // 05:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by Elistan Theocrat

When, not if, Prot bond is fixed then what happens to that argument.

You know, you should REALLY stop assuming you're all knowing and actually KNOW it's broken. Who here is actually one of the developers of ArenaNet? If I recall, Ensign is probably the most qualified non dev to answer this and he has said it is broken, but who is to say for sure? Not to attack his credibility or anything, but there is noone else (or at least none I know of) on his level of understanding of the game's mathamatics and for all we know, he could be just spewing crap really.

I won't deny that Protective Bond is broken, HOWEVER, I wont admit it either. Protective Bond at the moment, IS. This setup is useful in only a small area of the game and that area was nerfed long before this build showed up to the general public. Is Protective Bond broken? Perhaps. Is it powerful? Yes. Is it overpowered? Far from it.

There is another thing I have noticed though while soling with this build. Protective Bond does may make you lose one energy per hit, but Bathazar's Aura does not give you 1 energy per hit. It seems to me that the amount of energy is directly proportional to the amount of damage you take. 1-2 damage is hardly enough to give you the full amount of energy. My guess it would be .95 of the energy or something as I have noticed that if you are not careful with your energy, protective bond can be broken through because your energy has just hit zero and it ends.

The thing is, you can tell how much energy you REALLY have so once those Grasping Darknesses start stealing energy and gets to zero (obviously their spell cant take off energy if it is less than 1, your energy only says 0 because it isn't 1 but it isn't a full zero either, thanks to Bathazar's spirit. However, you can't tell how far it is from zero. Each time you get hit, your energy is going down regardless. Even with the 2 energy Protective bond though, you can sacrifice Aura for essence bond, which will give you 1.95 energy per hit to compensate for that extra energy. Battles will take longer, but you can still solo nonetheless.

From this, I can safely assume the bond isn't broken, but rather powerful. And as Sprit can't compensate, there are many different counters to it that aren't limited to removing it, the skill is far from being overpowered. It only seems that way as the beginning of the underworld have creatures that don't have skills to counter it.

However, perhaps even if it isn't broken, Arenanet didn't intend for it to happen, so perhaps it does call for a nerf. But that isn't up to me or you or anyone in this topic (unless one of you is secretly a dev). I would not like it to be nerfed personally, but if it is, it is.

octaviancmb · Aug 22, 2005, 05:45 AM // 05:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by Elistan Theocrat

He still makes no effort what so ever to provide any support to his claim that prot bond is not broken, and has ignored a request of mine to take further insults and or replys that are not regarding prot bond to PM.

Several people have pointed out that Protective Bond is *not* a broken skill. I think there is a definition problem at play here, for I can agree with you if you simply alter your argument to "protective bond is a very powerful skill." Broken? No. Powerful? Yes.

An example of a broken skill would be one which had no effective counters. PB has plenty.

There are certain zones in the game which do not employ those counters for PB. If effective counters to powerful skills are not used within a zone, then those powerful skills will dominate those zones. The first part of the UW is an excellent example of one such zone. There are, indeed, numerous others.

If all zones have effective counters to all powerful skills, then those powerful skills become shitty skills.

In my opinion (and this is just opinion), GW needs *fewer* shitty skills and more powerful ones, not the reverse. Additionally, GW needs far more incentive to group. Right now there is a huge penalty associated with grouping, especially in the UW/FoW. That was a mistake.

Also, let us not forget that there are *other* powerful skills at play in the 105/55 Monk build: Bonetti's Defence, for instance, is a very powerful skill for which there are far, far fewer effective counters than PB. Arguably it is just as "broken" as PB (even moreso due to PB requiring a 17 attribute to "break" whereas Bonetti's requires...2), but you don't seem to be ranting against it, just PB. Since you only seem to be ranting against Monk skills, this upsets the minority of players who have Monks and don't want to see them watered down any further than they already are. It is especially agravating to some of these players when you're ranting against something that, in their opinion, does not harm the game at all.

So, for those who really think PB is broken, I (and many people like me) disagree completely. If you change your argument slightly, however, to something like, "You know, the first part of the UW needs a few more effective counters against enchantments," then I think more people would agree with you. I may be wrong, because it would make the UW...well...just hideous, but at any rate, I think you could build a stronger case for that.

Good luck with your furture ranting. I, at least, enjoy reading them when I have time.

cmb

Elistan Theocrat · Aug 22, 2005, 05:51 AM // 05:51

I appreciate that you are actually addressing my issue as opposed to simply attacking me. I've never had a problem with energy with prot bond even when running it at 16 because you can simply not "sacrifice" spirit for ebond, use em both, then even if youre at 16th lvl prot bond youre still breaking even on energy every time you take physical damage. Bonnetti's/Blessed can handle the rest.

The problem is not so much the energy cost reduction, thats not so much an exploit, the problem is that prot bond has no cap on the amount of damage reduction. When a cow can hit my monk for 2 whole points of damage because I've purposely exploited the fact that prot bond has no cap on damage reduction, how much damage vanishes?? 300+ points? so the damage taken is .6% of the normal damage? This math only gets more offensive as the damage taken increases. Yea sure its not broken. Not to mention the fact that once it became known publicly that its broken every monkroach out there started wearing doubled up superior runes, and started shelling out decent money for a previously discarded, disdained noobie quest reward focus item... nobody in thier right mind would ever wear dupicate superior runes on one set of armor simultaneously prior to the 'outing' of the 105... the fact that its over powered and broken to the point that monkroaches start coming out of the woodwork and start behaving in fashion that previously would have gotten them laughed off the server is evidence that it needs to be fixed.

Quote:

Originally Posted by octaviancmb

GW needs far more incentive to group. Right now there is a huge penalty associated with grouping, especially in the UW/FoW. That was a mistake.

Also, let us not forget that there are *other* powerful skills at play in the 105/55 Monk build: Bonetti's Defence, for instance, is a very powerful skill for which there are far, far fewer effective counters than PB. Arguably it is just as "broken" as PB (even moreso due to PB requiring a 17 attribute to "break" whereas Bonetti's requires...2), but you don't seem to be ranting against it, just PB.

First, Yes I agree, the penalty for grouping is rather steep and is the root problem.

Second, no doubt Bonetti's is also a powerful skill, and critical to the success of the 105/55 build yet it's still not the centerpiece. The reason my mind can let Bonetti's slide while I'd love to see prot bond fixed right now is that even though its critical in the 105, its certainly not the centerpiece skill. A warrior/monk can use all mannor of stances and such but if hes not getting the damage reduced to .6% of what it should be, hes not going to be able to do what the Mo/W can do.

Again I would point to the behavior of the masses doing things that previously wouldve been unthinkable as evidence to the fact that prot bond is broken and currently being exploited.

Yuan · Aug 22, 2005, 05:54 AM // 05:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by wolfy3455

Intelligent people that begin looking at things objectively tend to reach similar conclusions unless the testing is flawed.

yea...i guess math 101 makes people very intelligent.

Quote:

Originally Posted by wolfy3455

You chastised the OP for making assumptions that you assumed he made. You're a hypocrite. Ellistan has biases but a hypocrite attacking someone on the grounds of him being a hypocrite... thats a bit messed up.

Read my post again. I didnt say Elistan was biased and if you read his posts you'll find his assumptions.

Quote:

Originally Posted by wolfy3455

An economy will form in any online game. It is usually a mix between unchecked capitalism and a traditional economy(barter system). The capitalism comes from the fact that we're used to needing something to exchange for our goods. We or the company will form a currency.

More gold is entering the economy than is leaving. In real life, the version of this would be when a government prints more money. The value then goes down. This used to be based on precious metals but in modern times it is based on percieved value. There are a lot of complicated factors in this value as well but I don't want to hurt your brain too badly. As you seem to understand the often preached supply and demand, you should understand why the value goes down. This effect is called inflation. There are healthy levels of inflation but at the rate gold comes into the GW economy without leaving, well, in real life this would cause your dollar bills to be of the same value as the paper its printed on. This is generally considered bad and a government would attempt to control it.

This is all you really need to know, but if on the off chance you're interested in economics you can look it up, or if your really desperate, I'd be happy to answer any questions you may have via PM though my knowledge is limited to what I remember from a high school elective.

wow...high school economy. Ok...lets go to high school economy. I see you learned what is inflation. But you miss a point here. It is not only gold coming into gw economy, there are also goods coming into gw economy. There is also labor. Printing money requires no labor or time. Farming is labor and requires time. Labor is good for the economy. ANd as you said there are many other factors.
Also, inflation can be defined as the rise in price of goods and services. What is truly happening in gw is a fall of prices. Goods are getting cheaper and not more expensive.
Btw, there will be always more gold entering the economy than leaving. And gold does not leave the economy. It circulates.
In this virtual economy money leaves by buying stuff from npcs. Which also smoothes this "economy problem". Buying fissure armors, runes, dyes, etc from npcs and using them, will make money leave the "economy". Even without these solo farmers there would be more money entering the economy. Unless there is no farming at all. And having solo monks or not, there will always be farming. In the end all it does is help people wear the best armors (cosmetically or not) and weapons.

Hot Dead · Aug 22, 2005, 06:03 AM // 06:03

Wat is 105/55 crap?

Elistan Theocrat · Aug 22, 2005, 06:06 AM // 06:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hot Dead

Wat is 105/55 crap?

Its a mo/w build that exploits the broken skill called Protective Bond to provide quasi-invulnerablity within certain situational restraints.

Sekkira · Aug 22, 2005, 06:15 AM // 06:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by Elistan Theocrat

I appreciate that you are actually addressing my issue as opposed to simply attacking me. I've never had a problem with energy with prot bond even when running it at 16 because you can simply not "sacrifice" spirit for ebond, use em both, then even if youre at 16th lvl prot bond youre still breaking even on energy every time you take physical damage. Bonnetti's/Blessed can handle the rest.

Actually, I said to sacrifice Aura for Essence Bond, not Spirit.

But the problem with putting a cap on how much can be protected against becomes a real problem. What if you get someone with 250HP or something due to using a few superiors to boost their power? But they need a protection monk to keep them alive for obvious reasons, so bond would be thrown on them. If the cap is there, I'm sure that it will render that quite useless and that person with a few superiors on them would be quite vunerable to any attacks.

Protection spells like this only act as extra armour really and bringing your HP down to 55 would have no different effect than if you had it at the full 480. It's just at that low HP, mending and watchful spirit can actually keep up because 5% of 55 and 480 are two very different values. The build is actually quite ingenius actually, a perfect way to get each skill working for each other. IMO, more of this should be encouraged on a team level. Most of the people who use this build don't understand how and why it works. But no matter what, there'll always be good builds for farming certain areas and if you use the search function, you can find info on them and build it yourself with hardly any knowledge of how it works, just following instructions.

These people are the same ones who join your teams and try and show off at how cool they are. I personally decline the team or accept, tell them what I am and that I'd be useless to the team, then leave before they go in so they can get a real healer or protector. You'll always have these asshats, even if you took off protective bond all together, calling a nerf on the basis of idiots like this is uncalled for and goes under the term griefing in which case there's a nice little way to report. Not that I'm saying you're basing it on that, maybe you are, I don't know. I'm just here to say and prove that Bond is not a broken skill.

wolfy3455 · Aug 22, 2005, 06:29 AM // 06:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yuan

I see you learned what is inflation. But you miss a point here. It is not only gold coming into gw economy, there are also goods coming into gw economy. There is also labor. Printing money requires no labor or time. Farming is labor and requires time. Labor is good for the economy. ANd as you said there are many other factors.
Also, inflation can be defined as the rise in price of goods and services. What is truly happening in gw is a fall of prices. Goods are getting cheaper and not more expensive.
Btw, there will be always more gold entering the economy than leaving. And gold does not leave the economy. It circulates.

You are a very thick person. Goods that have a demand have always been increasing in price except for during the first few weeks in the rare materials market and Anet enacted changes. Unless you want a completely centrally planned economy, its going to continue this way. Labor is a completely different market though it does factor into real world production. I don't think you'll be getting any "sweat equity" for playing a video game.

The increase of the price of goods is a result of inflation, although sometimes it can be the cause, this is not a case of that. Inflation itself is the devaluation of currency. Gold sinks are money leaving the economy. Unless those armor venders secretly buy things with all the money they get, that money is gone. In a real economy, its healthy for the money to continuously circulate, but in this game money comes in too fast.

Elistan Theocrat · Aug 22, 2005, 06:32 AM // 06:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sekkira

Actually, I said to sacrifice Aura for Essence Bond, not Spirit.

Indeed you did, my apologies.

Quote:

Originally Posted by sekkira

But the problem with putting a cap on how much can be protected against becomes a real problem. What if you get someone with 250HP or something due to using a few superiors to boost their power? But they need a protection monk to keep them alive for obvious reasons, so bond would be thrown on them. If the cap is there, I'm sure that it will render that quite useless and that person with a few superiors on them would be quite vunerable to any attacks.

I dunno, before I started messin around with protbond, I would protect others with lifebarrier/lifebond and the fact that both of them had set caps of damage removal was not too much of a problem.

Quote:

Originally Posted by sekkira

Protection spells like this only act as extra armour really and bringing your HP down to 55 would have no different effect than if you had it at the full 480. It's just at that low HP, mending and watchful spirit can actually keep up because 5% of 55 and 480 are two very different values. The build is actually quite ingenius actually, a perfect way to get each skill working for each other.

No arguement from me with the statement that the build is clever. Still, cleverness doesn't mean that the build isnt the exploitation of the fact that protbond has no limit to its capability to make any kind of damage all but disappear.

Quote:

Originally Posted by sekkira

I'm just here to say and prove that Bond is not a broken skill.

Yep and thats cool, I can respect, if not agree with your opinion that prot bond is not broken. As far as proving, maybe i'm hard headed but i've yet to hear one thing that proves prot bond isnt broken, and I dont expect to unless one of the devs decides to join in our little chat here.

Quote:

Originally Posted by wolfy3455

You are a very thick person. Goods that have a demand have always been increasing in price except for during the first few weeks in the rare materials market and Anet enacted changes. Unless you want a completely centrally planned economy, its going to continue this way. Labor is a completely different market though it does factor into real world production. I don't think you'll be getting any "sweat equity" for playing a video game.

The increase of the price of goods is a result of inflation, although sometimes it can be the cause, this is not a case of that. Inflation itself is the devaluation of currency. Gold sinks are money leaving the economy. Unless those armor venders secretly buy things with all the money they get, that money is gone. In a real economy, its healthy for the money to continuously circulate, but in this game money comes in too fast.

/signed for truth and FTW!

LoL, sorry, can I borrow "Sweat Equity"? I love that concept. Few things amuse me more than people who want to complain that GW is grinding away too much of thier "valuable" time. Cause we all know if they werent farming UW or gettin thier 2nd character run around everywhere they'd be using that time finding the cure for cancer... Time most players spend playing guild wars is not time they'd be doing anything of "value". Lol what its 237am here? Not of whole lot of value to the time I'm spending right now. This game doesnt even have the monthy charge to assign a value you payed for the hours you played in the game in any given month. And of course the coup de grace is that these same people who complain on the forums about the vaulable time they spend in the game dont seem to comprehend that by doing so they are spending more if this supposedly valuable time not even playing the game but talking about it to a bunch of other people not doing anything else with thier time rofl...

Sekkira · Aug 22, 2005, 06:44 AM // 06:44

And we come full circle and all is well. Sort of. I'll just wait until ArenaNet says or does something if at all about this. Although I do stand to repeat myself, if something is going to be done about it, other things should be fixed up beforehand.

Elistan Theocrat · Aug 22, 2005, 06:47 AM // 06:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sekkira

And we come full circle and all is well. Sort of. I'll just wait until ArenaNet says or does something if at all about this. Although I do stand to repeat myself, if something is going to be done about it, other things should be fixed up beforehand.

Certainly I'm not trying to say this is the largest problem guildwars faces. But i'll be honest and admit the only thing I want to see more than the fixing of prot bond is the seperation of the RP game and the PvP game.

Sekkira · Aug 22, 2005, 06:52 AM // 06:52

Which is a whole other issue for a whole other topic which I also disagree with

Slade xTekno · Aug 22, 2005, 06:54 AM // 06:54

I deleted my unAscended Mo/W as soon as I heard about how rampantly this build was spreading. I was in Fort Ranik d2 w/ another char I started and saw almost 5 of those buggers...

Yuan · Aug 22, 2005, 06:57 AM // 06:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by wolfy3455

You are a very thick person. Goods that have a demand have always been increasing in price except for during the first few weeks in the rare materials market and Anet enacted changes.

I disagree. Goods that have a certain demand will reach a cap in price. The simple supply and demand law will help to make a cap for the price. There will be a point calculated by supply and demand to reach the certain price. Of course its not objetive as this in gw.Unless the demand is continually rising, which i doubt it is in gw. The exception to this would be monk runes. And even monk runes reached a stable price, which is around 10k-20k.
The difference is that in gw economy there is no use of statistics and research to generate prices. People just sell things for the price they want. Some sell monk runes for 2k, others for 20k. But for most people there will be a stable price. If there is only one person selling, for instance a perfect storm bow, then this person will sell it for any price he/she wants as long people pay. If there are many people selling perfect stormbows, the price will logically go down, unless all sellers make a conspiracy, which is next to impossible in gw. This is not even economy, its common sense.

Quote:

Originally Posted by wolfy3455

Labor is a completely different market though it does factor into real world production. I don't think you'll be getting any "sweat equity" for playing a video game.

The labor i meant was the workforce or play time investend on doing repetitive stuf. Farming can be called labor. All this inside gw of course. In real life, it requires labor to produce a merchandise. In gw, it requires labor to run people to certain places or to find those rare items. The exception would be those who find these items by luck. You can even say that the rarity of the item is the labor invested in find that item. Statistically, the more labor you would invest in finding the item, the more rare items you would find. Of course it is not a perfect correlation.

Quote:

Originally Posted by wolfy3455

The increase of the price of goods is a result of inflation, although sometimes it can be the cause, this is not a case of that. Inflation itself is the devaluation of currency. Gold sinks are money leaving the economy. Unless those armor venders secretly buy things with all the money they get, that money is gone. In a real economy, its healthy for the money to continuously circulate, but in this game money comes in too fast.

I agree. It can be the result of inflation as well as the cause. But as i said before, the price of goods are falling not rising. So the currency is not actually being devalued, but it may be overvalued now. The currency can now buy more items, more fissure armors, and so on.

Red Locust · Aug 22, 2005, 07:03 AM // 07:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by ManaCraft

So? The purpose of fixing prot bond is not to make you PUG more often. I don't care whether you PUG or not, I care whether you are met with sufficient challenge when you play the game.

"PUGs suck" is a poor excuse for wanting to preserve an imbalanced skill.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Elistan Theocrat

Why do you think I care if you pug or not? It has nothing at all to do with who you group or don't group with. The fact that you cant handle dealing with other players is no reason to leave a broken, flawed, unbalanced and exploited skill buggered as it currently is.

OK...so then what exactly do you two care about? And why do you care whether I'm challenged enough or not? How in the hell does my soloing in any way affect your PvE experience? To me, "I care whether you are met with sufficient challenge" sounds a lot like "I'm really ticked off that you're having an easy time at doing something and I want them to make it much harder for you."

Maybe if gold and item drops actually meant something, and you'd feel compelled to farm in order to be as good as me, then you might have an argument. But gold is worthless and the best items can be bought from collectors.
Maybe if this was a persistent world and I was clearing out your whole zone and depriving you of kills/exp, but that's not the case.
Maybe if you were ticked off that I'm soloing as opposed to joining your group, but apparently you don't care about that (and I probably wouldn't join your group anyways).
Maybe if I could meet you in PvE and we could fight, and my prot bond would totally kick your ass, you'd have reason to be upset. But that's not the case. PvE is not competitive, it's cooperative, and what you get out of it depends totally on you and your group, not on me farming by myself in a totally different instance.

So what is it? You're basically complaining that somebody found an easier way through life, and you want it nerfed so that he's as miserable as you are. I'm sorry, but that's the best explanation I can come up with for your responses. My solo monk doesn't affect your game in any other way.

edit: I didn't mean for this to sound like I'm taking it personally, I just use the first person point of view (i.e. "I") to better get my point across. I could easily change the "I"s and the "you"s with "person A" and "person B."

Yuan · Aug 22, 2005, 07:11 AM // 07:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by Red Locust

OK...so then what exactly do you two care about? And why do you care whether I'm challenged enough or not? How in the hell does my soloing in any way affect your PvE experience? To me, "I care whether you are met with sufficient challenge" sounds a lot like "I'm really ticked off that you're having an easy time at doing something and I want them to make it much harder for you."

Maybe if gold and item drops actually meant something, and you'd feel compelled to farm in order to be as good as me, then you might have an argument. But gold is worthless and the best items can be bought from collectors.
Maybe if this was a persistent world and I was clearing out your whole zone and depriving you of kills/exp, but that's not the case.
Maybe if you were ticked off that I'm soloing as opposed to joining your group, but apparently you don't care about that (and I probably wouldn't join your group anyways).
Maybe if I could meet you in PvE and we could fight, and my prot bond would totally kick your ass, you'd have reason to be upset. But that's not the case. PvE is not competitive, it's cooperative, and what you get out of it depends totally on you and your group, not on me farming by myself in a totally different instance.

So what is it? You're basically complaining that somebody found an easier way through life, and you want it nerfed so that he's as miserable as you are. I'm sorry, but that's the best explanation I can come up with for your responses. My solo monk doesn't affect your game in any other way.

i agree. At least not in any way to deal with it so personally and emotionally. Let it go Red locust because there are more reasons here than the ones that are shown here. I respect those who simply say out loud their reasons. They dont take this personally and emotionally, but still thinks the skill is broken. ANd even like that, they dont really care about "killing" all monk farmers or dont really think it is a big deal. Regarding those who just hide their reasons to look good for the public i ignore.

Elistan Theocrat · Aug 22, 2005, 07:46 AM // 07:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by Red Locust

OK...so then what exactly do you two care about? And why do you care whether I'm challenged enough or not? How in the hell does my soloing in any way affect your PvE experience? To me, "I care whether you are met with sufficient challenge" sounds a lot like "I'm really ticked off that you're having an easy time at doing something and I want them to make it much harder for you."

Maybe if gold and item drops actually meant something, and you'd feel compelled to farm in order to be as good as me, then you might have an argument. But gold is worthless and the best items can be bought from collectors.
Maybe if this was a persistent world and I was clearing out your whole zone and depriving you of kills/exp, but that's not the case.
Maybe if you were ticked off that I'm soloing as opposed to joining your group, but apparently you don't care about that (and I probably wouldn't join your group anyways).
Maybe if I could meet you in PvE and we could fight, and my prot bond would totally kick your ass, you'd have reason to be upset. But that's not the case. PvE is not competitive, it's cooperative, and what you get out of it depends totally on you and your group, not on me farming by myself in a totally different instance.

So what is it? You're basically complaining that somebody found an easier way through life, and you want it nerfed so that he's as miserable as you are. I'm sorry, but that's the best explanation I can come up with for your responses. My solo monk doesn't affect your game in any other way.

Ya know simply asking what it is I'm opposed to (although I feel i've been very clear on this) instead of attemping to "explain my responses" by putting words in my mouth would have been the adult way to address your question. How many monkroaches are going to try to put words in my mouth on this thread? It seems my every 3rd post is repeating myself for those who are like "so what your saying is... (insert complete misrepresenation of what I had said here)".

I dont care how much money you make, I dont care if you join my group, (nice backhanded insult there by the way, but you're assuming we'd have you.) I dont care if the game is hard FOR YOU, or easy FOR YOU. See, the world does not revolve around YOU, and I certainly never said it revolved around ME. I dont remember ever saying that the monkroaches inconvienced me personally at all. As I've told many of the others, its not about you or me. I dont care how miserable someone else is, unless my in game actions are making them miserable, I certainly have never been Miserable, lol, over this game. Fed up with bad players, sure we all have, but never miserable. Your example of "kicking my ass with protbond" is nearly laughable, especially 1v1, I guess you didnt read the example of what happened when I tested the protbond build against a healer monk in a 1v1 fight. Short story is that because there was no disenchant 4 players of equal lvl beat on me untill 3 of them realized they could never in a million years kill me, and it was a stalemate between me and the healer because B's Aura and a max smiting staff/rod is not enough to take out a dedicated healer.

So really, what you need to do is take your examples and burn them. Because they included you and me in them. You and me are not the point, the point is that the skill is overpowered to the point of being broken, and is currently being exploited. That, I am opposed to. If you want to farm or solo feel free, you can play the game however you want, and you can continue to do so when they repair this broken skill so that it can no longer be exploited.

Leddy · Aug 22, 2005, 07:53 AM // 07:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yuan

I disagree. Goods that have a certain demand will reach a cap in price. The simple supply and demand law will help to make a cap for the price. There will be a point calculated by supply and demand to reach the certain price. Of course its not objetive as this in gw.Unless the demand is continually rising, which i doubt it is in gw. The exception to this would be monk runes. And even monk runes reached a stable price, which is around 10k-20k.
The difference is that in gw economy there is no use of statistics and research to generate prices. People just sell things for the price they want. Some sell monk runes for 2k, others for 20k. But for most people there will be a stable price. If there is only one person selling, for instance a perfect storm bow, then this person will sell it for any price he/she wants as long people pay. If there are many people selling perfect stormbows, the price will logically go down, unless all sellers make a conspiracy, which is next to impossible in gw. This is not even economy, its common sense.

You know what, i sort of agree with you, in a sarcastic sort of way. The cap in price they will reach is 99000 gold, which (i believe) is THE SOFTWARE cap for items from traders.

The theories that govern economics in the real world don't apply to Guild Wars, the real world doesn't have traders that people continually buy off but a strictly limited amount of people sell to. This of course did change somewhat with the last market "revamp", but the effects of inflation due to the traders are still visible.

Take black dye for example. It was around 37plat the day before they redid the economy. It was 6.5k gold when they redid it; now it is 9k. It will eventually rise again, unless ANet imposed a software cap (below 99k). It is however, rising slower because now it gives you around 3/4 of the selling price (or at least i think so).

So tell me, why does a purely COSMETIC item which has supply FAR OUTSTRIP DEMAND (ie. the trader never runs out), keep on RISING IN PRICE?

Proof that the supply and demand theory doesn't work on Guild Wars.

/end