Curse

Ristaron · Aug 25, 2005, 06:05 PM // 18:05

For the past few weeks especially there have been many low-blows at A.Net, and I do believe they are all uncalled for. They made us this wonderful game for our enjoyment, they made it FREE, and they (most of the time) pay attention to our suggestions.
I would like to put emphasis on suggestions, as some of the threads I see in here are better described as demands, such as "Nerf the Monk Solo build!" and "Stop nerfing <whatever>!".
They are aware of the situation with the Monk solo build, it has been posted endlessly here. They know the easiest way to fix it (adding enchantment removal in more areas of the UW). And they know that it will do nothing (personal opinion, shared by many other respectable people on these forums).

They're also quite aware of any in-game lag, and they're working endlessly on it. They're aware that Thunderhead Keep is a bitch... and to my knowledge they just don't care - that's fine, so long as they don't make the rest of my game unplayable I'll do other things until enough of my guild members are online to make an entire party that is capable of doing that mission. RED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GO PUGs.

I think we are being all-too harsh with the people who have given us this game, and while there are still a few wrinkles to be ironed out, they're doing their best. Telling them to hurry up isn't helping.
I must admit I am guilty myself of sometimes showing a bit of anger towards them, but it has been because they didn't seem to be doing anything about an escalating problem (the vendor prices). They were, though, so I put myself back in my place as a gamer after I saw they had taken action (resetting the vendors and programming them to maintain closer buying prices to the prices they sold for).

This is a suggestion board, not a place to throw a hissy-fit at the people kind enough to let you use their servers for a one-time-fee. They're aware of the flavour builds that come and go (spirit spamming, invincimonks, spiker teams), and they tweak here and there to make sure no one team has the advantage without including personal skill.
The devs are also human, they can't be expected to fix a huge problem in a single day. Nor can they pay attention to every suggestion here (particularly the demands, which I hope they don't feel pressured into reading).

A massive attitude change needs to come about around here. You're not the boss, you just play on their server. They try to accomodate everybody, but if you're too childish to appreciate what you have, then get lost. One less person on the server will reduce the lag I get, anyways. And one less idiot to look passed while making one of those loathsome PUGs.

Forboding Angel · Aug 25, 2005, 06:07 PM // 18:07

Well spoken

The Great Al · Aug 25, 2005, 06:17 PM // 18:17

its amazing how everyone is allowed to make positive comments all they want, but any suggestions are thrown out the window as rants or low-blows

Sanji · Aug 25, 2005, 06:18 PM // 18:18

Thanks for telling us this, we'll get right on it.

Mumblyfish · Aug 25, 2005, 06:20 PM // 18:20

We're ANet's customers. We paid for this game (which is not free, it cost me thirty quid) and as such can be every bit as demanding as we want. Just as you would demand action from a company if you bought from them, say, a toaster that didn't work, many are demanding change in this game that isn't as advertised. And I, for one, will continue complaining until, if ever, my complaints are solved. The developers are operating off our money, not sunshine, goodwill and kisses. We, the consumers, line their pockets. We, the consumers, are their boss.

And this isn't a suggestion forum, it's a forum for discussion.

Audhumla · Aug 25, 2005, 06:22 PM // 18:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Great Al

its amazing how everyone is allowed to make positive comments all they want, but any suggestions are thrown out the window as rants or low-blows

Those who make positive comments are always referred to as fanboys with blind support for an evil company out to ruin their own game.

Ristaron · Aug 25, 2005, 06:23 PM // 18:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Great Al

its amazing how everyone is allowed to make positive comments all they want, but any suggestions are thrown out the window as rants or low-blows

I hardly call some of the suggestions around here low-blows. I am just tired of seeing all the demands people are making without any concern that A.Net is at liberty to ignore you. Firstly, you're not the boss; secondly, they're likely working on solving the problem you're bitching about already since it's been submitted in a very respectable fashion by someone else; thirdly, you're making an ass of yourself.

I have no problem with seeing suggestions in here, it's what the board is for. But when I see people demanding things to be done, I get pissed that they're so ungrateful towards A.Net for what it HAS done.

Xonic · Aug 25, 2005, 06:26 PM // 18:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mumblyfish

We're ANet's customers. We paid for this game (which is not free, it cost me thirty quid) and as such can be every bit as demanding as we want. Just as you would demand action from a company if you bought from them, say, a toaster that didn't work, many are demanding change in this game that isn't as advertised. And I, for one, will continue complaining until, if ever, my complaints are solved. The developers are operating off our money, not sunshine, goodwill and kisses. We, the consumers, line their pockets. We, the consumers, are their boss.

And this isn't a suggestion forum, it's a forum for discussion.

ah, the good ol' "I paid for this game, I have the right to demand anything" agrument.

oh well, I paid for this game too, I demand this game to remain unchanged.

Night Daftshadow · Aug 25, 2005, 06:28 PM // 18:28

hey, i paid $50 for this game. ill do all the complaining and demanding i want. but i havent been complaining much. well, the only real complaining i have done was the price reset a while back. that really pissed me off. i just go with the flow. lay back, kick off your shoes and enjoy the ride

TheGreatBoo · Aug 25, 2005, 06:29 PM // 18:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mumblyfish

We're ANet's customers. We paid for this game (which is not free, it cost me thirty quid) and as such can be every bit as demanding as we want. Just as you would demand action from a company if you bought from them, say, a toaster that didn't work, many are demanding change in this game that isn't as advertised. And I, for one, will continue complaining until, if ever, my complaints are solved. The developers are operating off our money, not sunshine, goodwill and kisses. We, the consumers, line their pockets. We, the consumers, are their boss.

And this isn't a suggestion forum, it's a forum for discussion.

No theres a clear line between making suggestive demands and taking shots at a company. Because we bought their product, we have the right to enslave them to our will? Every little thing that we think is for the best has to be met or we're going to quit the game? Demanding change for the good of the game and demanding uas so you don't have to "grind" are two different things.

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Great Al

its amazing how everyone is allowed to make positive comments all they want, but any suggestions are thrown out the window as rants or low-blows

Hmm theres a biased remark. Everyones equally flamed. People can't just attack ideas and personal opinoins anymore, they now have to take personal shots.

While I do disagree with the change to fire and air magic during this upcoming weekend, I'm not going to hold it against anet. I do recommend that they rethink and rebalance these changes though. Lets just stick to lowering the bounce range of chain lightning, not completely butcher it.

Loviatar · Aug 25, 2005, 06:31 PM // 18:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by Night Daftshadow

. i just go with the flow. lay back, kick off your shoes and enjoy the ride

what an insane idea..............simply enjoy the game while they work on it to give us even more.

i missed the reset by 7 minutes

Mercury Angel · Aug 25, 2005, 06:37 PM // 18:37

Often, neither side has entirely clean hands.

For any MMORPG, you'll find that constructive criticism is met by "OMG if you don't like it, stop playing. Everyone else is playing it the way it was MEANT to be played."

Take Maple Story, for instance. When the monster raid began, it happened in only a channel at a time, in 1-3 cities at time (think district), so TONS of people flooded each city, causing massive lag for each other.

Posts asking Wizet to make it for all, or at least most channels, were met with, "Maple Story is a free game. If you don't like it don't play."

You make a suggestion to make the game more enjoyable for everyone, and people bash you.

And then, there're people that perceive any attempts at pointing out redeeming qualities of a game as being 'rabid fanboys'.

Final Fantasy, for instance. There're people to this day that say, "FINAL FANTASY IS T3H SUXXORZ. It's the worst game series EVAR!"
Point out worse games, or any of the good parts to any of the games or series [in context with its time of release compared to other games at that time], and you get "STFU. FANBOY POSTS WILL BE IGNORED"

My point?

I'd imagine it'd be fairly obvious.
I didn't name any names, or list any specifics, lest I incur the wrath of moderators, or be perceived as flaming. Unreasonable people will be unreasonable people, and they're on BOTH sides.

Robos Stavanis · Aug 25, 2005, 06:38 PM // 18:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by Xonic

ah, the good ol' "I paid for this game, I have the right to demand anything" agrument.

oh well, I paid for this game too, I demand this game to remain unchanged.

LOL. I tend to agree, but this shows the delima that A.Net is faced with. The side that wants this change and that change, and the other side that wants no changes at all or very little change. They can't make everyone happy. What I have to ask myself is after paying for this game, have I gotten my moneys worth......I would have to say I most certainly have. I say this by virtue of the hours and enjoyment I have obtained from play. If they nerfed the heck out of this game over the weekend, I would be gravely disappointed, but would still have to say that while it lasted, I was able to get my moneys worth.

Linkie · Aug 25, 2005, 07:00 PM // 19:00

Guildwars is not free. You have to pay a one-time fee like almost any other game out there. Even the games with multiplayer.

zixaq · Aug 25, 2005, 07:01 PM // 19:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mumblyfish

We're ANet's customers. We paid for this game (which is not free, it cost me thirty quid) and as such can be every bit as demanding as we want. Just as you would demand action from a company if you bought from them, say, a toaster that didn't work, many are demanding change in this game that isn't as advertised. And I, for one, will continue complaining until, if ever, my complaints are solved. The developers are operating off our money, not sunshine, goodwill and kisses. We, the consumers, line their pockets. We, the consumers, are their boss.

And this isn't a suggestion forum, it's a forum for discussion.

The toaster argument is partially flawed. To the extent of actual software bugs with the game, and lag issues it is valid, but I've never seen ANet fall behind on fixing these issues. Where the argument does NOT apply is the topic of most of the "suggestions" posted on the forums. Either "Nerf that!" or "Stop nerfing that!". Guild Wars is an original work of art that the development teams put many, many hours into. There are very specific aims about the way they want their work to be appreciated, as they have stated many times. They are under no requirement to make changes to those aims, even if it would sell more copies of the game.

Most of the current "suggestions" are about the solo monk builds. The devs have on numerous occasions specified that they don't want farming to be a part of the game. Based on that, you can be pretty certain that the profitability of farming UW with the solo monk build will be shut down, hopefully in a way that impacts the rest of the game as little as possible. However, none us have a right to demand that they do so, even if the game cost us $50. That's like demanding that a toaster company change it's product not because it's broken, but because another owner of the same toaster figured out how to make bagels with it.

INFERNO2K · Aug 25, 2005, 07:22 PM // 19:22

Friendly reminder. This happens with every game with every developer.

There will always be those who do not enjoy the changes, tough, live with it and adapt

Sanji · Aug 25, 2005, 07:24 PM // 19:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by INFERNO2K

Friendly reminder. This happens with every game with every developer.

There will always be those who do not enjoy the changes, tough, live with it and adapt

Quoted for truth.

Welcome to every forum of every video game ever, Ristaron. I hope you enjoy your stay, because it's not changing anytime soon.

ifuwerepbandj · Aug 25, 2005, 07:24 PM // 19:24

I heartily agree with the OP. I happen to like the game and I see the problems with it just as many others do. I think what Ristaron and myself are just trying to say that we are sick of people blaming Anet for their cat dying and their teachers being mean. The plain and simple truth is that people are just a bit too quick to blame something and prefer to blame Anet because it doesn't lurk on these boards 24/7 to defend itself. But I get the feeling this thread will do nothing to the negative attitudes of people in generall, because

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mercury Angel

Unreasonable people will be unreasonable people, and they're on BOTH sides.

The Great Al · Aug 25, 2005, 07:58 PM // 19:58

my initial post was probably a bit harsh, i just found it humorous that a few days ago, someone posted a very mature, intelligent topic about a few flaws he found with the game, and what he suggested be done about it. within minutes, he was flamed and the topic was closed. now, someone posts a thread defending anet, and hes regarded as a hero. Don't get me wrong, i'm happy with the game and im happy with anet, I just get sick of people who regard anet as their baby or something, and get offended when anyone posts a suggested directed towards them. To be honest, the game would probably not be what it is today, if people never complained or offered suggestions.

moonshadow · Aug 25, 2005, 07:59 PM // 19:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mumblyfish

We're ANet's customers. We paid for this game (which is not free, it cost me thirty quid) and as such can be every bit as demanding as we want. Just as you would demand action from a company if you bought from them, say, a toaster that didn't work, many are demanding change in this game that isn't as advertised. And I, for one, will continue complaining until, if ever, my complaints are solved. The developers are operating off our money, not sunshine, goodwill and kisses. We, the consumers, line their pockets. We, the consumers, are their boss.

This argument only works to a certain degree. I'm a candlemaker and I handcraft several different types of candles. I have customers that purchase my products and I try to accomodate their needs...to a certain degree! If a customer called me to report a defect, I would immediately rectify the situation. If a customer called and made a constructive criticism, or a suggestion, I would evaluate that suggestion based on what I know about my company, my product, my costs, my customers, etc. and decide whether to make that change or not. If I decided not to, and the customer called me demanding I make the change because they know what's best for my product, my company, etc...well...I would tell them to take a hike! (well, maybe not in so many words, lol). After all, wouldn't I, the one who designed the product, built the company, works every day dealing with the intricacies of the business, know what is best for my company and product? If I did decide to implement a change to my product, I would have to evaluate the best time for me to make that change. If my customer continually called me to complain that this change was not being made fast enough to suit their needs...well...OH WELL, see ya! There are a lot of customers out there who love and appreciate my products and receive a lot of enjoyment from them. And who treat me with respect, and take my own considerations into account. I think I can afford to lose a few self-centered bozos that can't see beyond their own impatience, and self-absorption.

In my company, my customers get my undying attention to quality, my devotion to customer service, and my dedication to meeting their needs.

But I am the boss.

And you know what? It's working pretty darn well for me.