Curse

thetop · Aug 26, 2005, 07:04 PM // 19:04

Isn't it enough that the rangers are the most avoided class when making groups for PvE? Or that IMO they are the most underpowered class (some armor, but not good enough... Some damage, but..... A few good skills....

Lets face it, rangers have little to offer in a balanced PvE groups apart from spirits and traps. And now the 2 top "Nature Rituals" get nerfed... LOL. I've been stuck at Thunderhead Keep among the hordes of warriors and other rangers for 3 weeks now, unable to get in a good enough group to complete the mission. Yes, I did it on the second try with my ele, and on the first with my monk, and no, I can't do it with henches because the (extremely stupid) king dies

And what do we get in return? A few skill casting times "REDUCED" from 0.75 to 0.5 sec LOL... LOL, as if that's going to make any difference over the Internet latency. There isn't an easy way to measure that, but what you see on your screen is already about 1 sec "AFTER" it has happened on the server, so 0.25 sec reduction is..... (softly speaking) ridiculous.

Well, even the Expertise isn't fixed yet.... sometimes reducing energy consumption, sometimes not quite (casting a skill that requires 25 energy while having 12 points in Expertise should, theoretically make the skill cost 13, but it sometimes costs 18 or 19 to cast, especially if used together with Serpent Quickness).

So, what's next Mr Isaiah Cartwright? Kill off the ranger class completely by making it almost useless and undesirable in groups?

GhostPoet · Aug 26, 2005, 07:06 PM // 19:06

Why do people get on Rangers so much? They are freakin AWESOME.

Nash · Aug 26, 2005, 07:09 PM // 19:09

Simple, they don't know how to play them.

nailz · Aug 26, 2005, 07:10 PM // 19:10

uhm...rangers are super effective interupters.

sounds like you just aren't using your ranger correctly. With the addition of AL to lvl20 pets i'd venture to bet that there are a number of builds you design around beast mastery. Which would make tigers fury even more appropriate. Gives you a solid bow attack to use while your pet is tanking/doing dmg without having to bump a seperate attribute.

Kishin · Aug 26, 2005, 07:11 PM // 19:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by thetop

Isn't it enough that the rangers are the most avoided class when making groups for PvE? Or that IMO they are the most underpowered class (some armor, but not good enough... Some damage, but..... A few good skills....

Lets face it, rangers have little to offer in a balanced PvE groups apart from spirits and traps. And now the 2 top "Nature Rituals" get nerfed... LOL. I've been stuck at Thunderhead Keep among the hordes of warriors and other rangers for 3 weeks now, unable to get in a good enough group to complete the mission. Yes, I did it on the second try with my ele, and on the first with my monk, and no, I can't do it with henches because the (extremely stupid) king dies

And what do we get in return? A few skill casting times "REDUCED" from 0.75 to 0.5 sec LOL... LOL, as if that's going to make any difference over the Internet latency. There isn't an easy way to measure that, but what you see on your screen is already about 1 sec "AFTER" it has happened on the server, so 0.25 sec reduction is..... (softly speaking) ridiculous.

Well, even the Expertise isn't fixed yet.... sometimes reducing energy consumption, sometimes not quite (casting a skill that requires 25 energy while having 12 points in Expertise should, theoretically make the skill cost 13, but it sometimes costs 18 or 19 to cast, especially if used together with Serpent Quickness).

So, what's next Mr Isaiah Cartwright? Kill off the ranger class completely by making it almost useless and undesirable in groups?

Wow, talk about over-exagerration. Nothing about these changes weakened the Ranger class at all.

Um, Nature's Renewal and Fertile Season aren't very helpful in PvE at all. So I don't know what you're whining about. They aren't going to get you through Thunderhead, that's for damn sure. Neither will Quickening Zephyr.

Expertise is not broken. Again, I don't know what you're talking about.

Here, let me explain the wondrous secret to Thunderhead Keep to you in two easy steps: (Note, this is easily done with henchman)

1) Get to Keep.
2) Sit on top of king, and kill anyone who comes near him. Don't even need to bother with the ballistas, though I used them to annihilate most of the Stone Summit, and just babysat the king for the White Mantle.

As long as you kill things at a remotely reasonable rate, its easy. The enemies rarely reach the king in groups greater than 4 unless you get tied up on killing them, which you shouldn't.

In short, you're so far off base its not even funny.

Elythor · Aug 26, 2005, 07:16 PM // 19:16

OP:

Rangers can easily achieve the same DPS as warriors. If you can't think of a build yourself, look into the build forum and find a cookie-cutter build.

The only time I find Spirits useful in PvE is only in Ring of Fire against all the fire-resist mobs. Otherwise I don't see what's the point of the whining. If you use NR in PvE, you'll just get your own E and Mo yell at you. (not to mention all those poor W/Mo who use Mending). If you use QZ, monks will hate you and not heal you. So can you please give me a justifiable argument as to why spirit nerf will affect your PvE experience?

Diomedes · Aug 26, 2005, 07:21 PM // 19:21

Maybe he was hoping to spam walls of spirits around the king?

-Diomedes

Akathrielah · Aug 26, 2005, 07:22 PM // 19:22

Ranger DPS > Elementalist DPS period.

Rangers are also wonderful at interruption and when mixed with a mesmer secondary are also awesome at energy denial.

So why are you complaining? Please play with better builds.

Bingley Joe · Aug 26, 2005, 07:26 PM // 19:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by thetop

Well, even the Expertise isn't fixed yet.... sometimes reducing energy consumption, sometimes not quite (casting a skill that requires 25 energy while having 12 points in Expertise should, theoretically make the skill cost 13, but it sometimes costs 18 or 19 to cast, especially if used together with Serpent Quickness).

Every rank in Expertise reduces energy costs on any attack skills, preparations, or traps by 5%.

Not every skill on your bar. There's nothing broken about it. Nor Rangers, for that matter.

Also want to quote Aniewiel from another thread here:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aniewiel

Please. Let's not nitpick EVERYTHING to death. Please add your comments to already existing threads on the subject of the build changes.

Ensign · Aug 26, 2005, 07:42 PM // 19:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by thetop

Isn't it enough that the rangers are the most avoided class when making groups for PvE?

Congratulations, most PvErs are blithering morons. You can rebalance all you want, but you can't raise the general intelligence of a PUG.

Quote:

Originally Posted by thetop

Or that IMO they are the most underpowered class

Which demonstrates to everyone just how valuable your opinion is.

Quote:

Originally Posted by thetop

Lets face it, rangers have little to offer in a balanced PvE groups apart from spirits and traps.

Let's face it, most Ranger players wouldn't know how to do something useful if it stabbed them in the face. Of course that goes for most players of other professions as well.

Quote:

Originally Posted by thetop

And now the 2 top "Nature Rituals" get nerfed...

As we know, Nature's Renewal and Quickening Zephyr were *huge* PvE skills. I mean *huge*. You'd see people running around outposts screaming "LOOKING FOR NATURES RENEWAL RANGER!" all the freaking time. It was driving me nuts.

The PvE Ranger as we know it has been irrevocably nerfed.

Quote:

Originally Posted by thetop

LOL. I've been stuck at Thunderhead Keep among the hordes of warriors and other rangers for 3 weeks now, unable to get in a good enough group to complete the mission.

Caremeter:

[-|-------------------------]

Quote:

Originally Posted by thetop

Yes, I did it on the second try with my ele, and on the first with my monk, and no, I can't do it with henches because the (extremely stupid) king dies

That's interesting, because I completed that mission with my Ranger on the first try. With bonus. Myself and six henchies, because Aidan and Dunham suck and I refuse to split the already pathetic drops with them.

Perhaps the difference is player skill? Perhaps you really don't know how to play a Ranger, and are getting a crash course in how little you know?

Quote:

Originally Posted by thetop

And what do we get in return?

Return for losing those godly Nature Rituals that were the crux of every Ranger's PvE strategy.

Quote:

Originally Posted by thetop

A few skill casting times "REDUCED" from 0.75 to 0.5 sec

Actually Punishing Shot was reduced from a normal attack to interrupt speed. I've noticed that a lot of PvE Rangers are in love with that skill for whatever reason so I'd call that a pretty substantial buff.

Quote:

Originally Posted by thetop

Well, even the Expertise isn't fixed yet

You want it toned down so that it isn't abusively good?

Oh, wait, you mean like it doesn't work right. Can't say I've ever seen that happen. Or heard about it.

Quote:

Originally Posted by thetop

.... sometimes reducing energy consumption, sometimes not quite.

You mean, like, under Quickening Zephyr?

Quote:

Originally Posted by thetop

Kill off the ranger class completely by making it almost useless and undesirable in groups?

One thing that balance changes cannot do is instill competence into terrible players. The problem with your Ranger, and I cannot stress this enough, is you. You have one of the most powerful classes in the game to make a build with, and blaming the skill balancer for your failure just makes you look even more clueless. If I were you, I would stop posting and take a look at some of the Rangers posted and talked about on these forums before, at least if you wanted to avoid embarassing yourself further.

Peace,
-CxE

Jhyphi · Aug 26, 2005, 07:58 PM // 19:58

Maiming strike has a use by itself w/o bringing CoH together.

Was it really only 60 AL on pets before? I could've sworn my pet was tanking as well as warriors, although a lot warriors suck at tanking and damage dealing, being sucky at both at the same time(impossible you would think).

NR is a different thing than what it used to be now. I always liked it for the hex removal which will now be near impossible.

I don't mind each ranger having only 1 spirit of a type on the field at once. It stops some massive spamming/wall blocking. However, I disapprove of the ALL ALLIED being destroyed. This makes it impossible to keep any type of spirit up with their low health and long cast times.

crimsonfilms · Aug 26, 2005, 08:01 PM // 20:01

ouch and lol

Elythor · Aug 26, 2005, 08:04 PM // 20:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jhyphi

However, I disapprove of the ALL ALLIED being destroyed. This makes it impossible to keep any type of spirit up with their low health and long cast times.

Only allied spirit of the same type is destroy. You can still spam...but just have to spam different types.

Larry the Hippo · Aug 26, 2005, 08:14 PM // 20:14

rangers, IMO, can do 2 things. one, tank decently(dodge, troll unguent, one other, my bros the ranger not me) while doing decent dmg, and two, do massive amounts of damage to a single unit(tigers, ignite arrows, diabolitating shot, pin down), w/o giving up abilities that keep them alive VERY well.

rangers are great for PvE compared to eles or monks, because, just like mesmers, they work better on single, or a few enemies, not hordes.

Sarus · Aug 26, 2005, 08:15 PM // 20:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ensign

Caremeter:

[-|-------------------------]

hahahaha ... the caremeter in full effect. I'm glad I've managed to avoid being on the receiving end of Ensign's wtfownage of noobs.

Raumoheru · Aug 26, 2005, 08:36 PM // 20:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by thetop

Isn't it enough that the rangers are the most avoided class when making groups for PvE? Or that IMO they are the most underpowered class (some armor, but not good enough... Some damage, but..... A few good skills....

Lets face it, rangers have little to offer in a balanced PvE groups apart from spirits and traps. And now the 2 top "Nature Rituals" get nerfed... LOL. I've been stuck at Thunderhead Keep among the hordes of warriors and other rangers for 3 weeks now, unable to get in a good enough group to complete the mission. Yes, I did it on the second try with my ele, and on the first with my monk, and no, I can't do it with henches because the (extremely stupid) king dies

And what do we get in return? A few skill casting times "REDUCED" from 0.75 to 0.5 sec LOL... LOL, as if that's going to make any difference over the Internet latency. There isn't an easy way to measure that, but what you see on your screen is already about 1 sec "AFTER" it has happened on the server, so 0.25 sec reduction is..... (softly speaking) ridiculous.

Well, even the Expertise isn't fixed yet.... sometimes reducing energy consumption, sometimes not quite (casting a skill that requires 25 energy while having 12 points in Expertise should, theoretically make the skill cost 13, but it sometimes costs 18 or 19 to cast, especially if used together with Serpent Quickness).

So, what's next Mr Isaiah Cartwright? Kill off the ranger class completely by making it almost useless and undesirable in groups?

HAHAHAHAHAHAHA

erm..

Rangers can do a crap load of damage, and can interupt like crazy. try things like Kindle Arrows + Dual Shot or Quick Shot, Distracting Shot, Practiced Stance + Choking Gas.

the power of the ranger does not lie just within a few spirits, and yes IMO it is unfair when a ranger can use all his spirits then use oath shot and have em right back up again.

sounds to me like you just dont know how to play the class, so quit whining about it like a little sissy boy (no pun intended).

crimsonfilms · Aug 26, 2005, 08:44 PM // 20:44

At level 8 in Ascalon Arena, I am owning Forge running level 10 warriors with the proper skill set. I can blow through most missions/quest with henchies with the proper 5-6 skills (I am stillplaying around with my secondary class).

BTW - we owned a guild yesterday in GvG because of the one ranger we had in the build and they where ranked higher than us. And no he was not a spirit spammer.

Cant wait to complete my ranger skills (only one spirit and not even using it)

Savio · Aug 26, 2005, 08:46 PM // 20:46

Go crimsonfilms! Show them what a real Ranger does!

This is perhaps the best thread I've read today, and if I hadn't already seen all the monks at ToA earlier today this would take the cake.

Valerius · Aug 26, 2005, 09:58 PM // 21:58

Rangers for teh win!

... i love my interupting Ranger.... wish Savage Shot was .5 tho... oh well

Mana Garmr · Aug 26, 2005, 10:08 PM // 22:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by thetop

Yes, I did it on the second try with my ele, and on the first with my monk, and no, I can't do it with henches because the (extremely stupid) king dies

See, now I find that weird. My ranger did the mission with bonus with henchies only and the king never even got hit. He only joined in 2 or 3 of the fights on the way to the fort because, being a ranger, I was nowhere near most of the enemies. Then in the fort the only enemy who even got near him was the Mursaat Mesmer boss, and he didn't last long enough to do anything.

Quote:

Originally Posted by thetop

Well, even the Expertise isn't fixed yet.... sometimes reducing energy consumption, sometimes not quite (casting a skill that requires 25 energy while having 12 points in Expertise should, theoretically make the skill cost 13, but it sometimes costs 18 or 19 to cast, especially if used together with Serpent Quickness).

I've never noticed any problems with Expertise. I have 13 in it and from what I've seen all my 5 energy skills always cost 2 energy. The only 25 energy skill I use is Concussion Shot and it always seems to cost only 12, which is easy to see since I generally have my full 32 energy when I use it.