Curse

Mormegil · Aug 28, 2005, 01:17 PM // 13:17

Incipit: I consider the OP extremely silly for posting a second time to defend a horrible build. The following is not written in his defence.

Corpus: I don't envy the PvP elite. My guild is ranked 40-60, so I consider myself something more than decent, but frankly, I never felt the unexplicable urge to bash on others the way some people do. There's a silent truth in
net-gaming: pro players are (or should be) not only a lot better than the average, but helpful and nice to other less experienced fellas or to the newcomers. They should "embrace the new blood" in a sense. They're pro, they're the best players a community has to offer, who's supposed to be nice other than them?

While this happens often elsewhere, the GWguru elitist community is, respectfully speaking, made of graduated arrogants full of their own crap. Apart from some of them who contributed heavily to the forum and to the common knowledge of the game (Ensign, Sarus, Scaphism, Rex to name some of them) the scene is somewhat sad. Hell, the FPS community, where competition sky-rockets, looks like a league of british gentlemen compared to this.
The OP's build is awful, everyone who usually plays in Tombs knows it. So what? He's a casual gamer? I know many casual gamers, people have different lives and spare time. He didn't use the search button? Why, do some Idiot Savants use it when they post pointless rants repeated over and over? I could quote hundreds of unnecessary posts from the supposedly elitist branch of the forum.

Threads of enthusiastic people who reached the HoH for the first time were often spoiled by answers like "so what? maybe the time was right and you didnt fight any good team to get there, it's possible to hold the hall with 4 henchies at the right time. any noob can do it". Now, that's the way to make the community grow and welcome the new players!
Oh and let me guess. My post will probably be ripped apart and dissected by some of you who have way too much time to waste on forums. I already see the usual replies "this is useless, a rant over a rant over a rant", or "the guy called it upon him". Like I give a hoot. We could argue over the grass' colour for months, e-fights are lame.

Now I'll pretend for a moment I'm part of the elitist club and write a golden rule myself:

If you feel like you can't help treating a poster like a pile of shit, just don't post, it's really that easy.

Theus · Aug 28, 2005, 01:23 PM // 13:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mormegil

While this happens often elsewhere, the GWguru elitist community is, respectfully speaking, made of graduated arrogants full of their own crap. Apart from some of them who contributed heavily to the forum and to the common knowledge of the game (Ensign, Sarus, Scaphism, Rex to name some of them) the scene is somewhat sad. Hell, the FPS community, where competition sky-rockets, looks like a league of british gentlemen compared to this.

Quoted and underlined for emphasis and for truth.

Please don't quote an entire post only to add one line of commentary. If you want to highlight one portion of a previous post, pull out just that portion so no one has to spend time reading through the same post twice.
-Scaphism

chowdah · Aug 28, 2005, 01:33 PM // 13:33

Slade xTekno,

Its the internet - don't expect any less. Honestly you got off light. I am not saying its right but gaming internet communities have been around long enough that unless this is the first time you ever logged on the web you should have seen it comming. =\

Tuoba Hturt Eht · Aug 28, 2005, 01:38 PM // 13:38

I post in reply to the Original Poster of this thread:

Aye, just take it easy.
If you read the book "The 7 Habits of Highly Effect People" by Sean Covey before,
Habit 1: Be Proactive

"Be Pro-active instead of Re-active"

If you feel not happy, sad, or even angry when you see something negative targeted towards you, that is because you choosed to 're-act' in that way.

Take an example of
- a bottle of water
- a bottle of coke

If you shake both bottles violently, and then you compare the results:
- water: still remain calm as before, maybe just a few bubbles but they dissapear quickly
- coke: lots of bubbles, as if like wanting to burst out from the bottle

So, here's what you can do, don't re-act, be pro-act.

The next time you post a new build in these forums, criticism, flames, insults is expected.

So, what you can do is, look at things from an optimistic point of view, think positively.

Or you can just ignore their flames and insults all together, and if there are any constructive critism, take a read, then go back to your drawing table, and perhaps redesign your build.

"Don't Worry, Be Happy."
- Bob Marley

Cheers mate.

ElderAtronach · Aug 28, 2005, 01:39 PM // 13:39

I dunno about you, but casual gamers don't usually post a lot on "guru" forums. Slade's tag is Ministry of Knowledge. Come on, I don't buy it for a second that he's a casual gamer if he posts here so often. Why would he spend more time on forums than in game? Wait, don't answer that...

To be fair Slade, you were treated like crap for that build you posted. Keep in mind though that Eonwe's an asshole by nature. Even his guildmates have attested to that in the past

MCS · Aug 28, 2005, 01:40 PM // 13:40

Most of the people who really get flamed think they're right and refuse to believe anything else. For example that guy who is convinced gladiators defense is a good reason why other warriors shouldn't use frenzy.

Quote:

Eonwe's an asshole by nature.

I think it's probably years of dealing with idiots from online games.

You can only take so much stupidity before you give up on explaining to them why they are wrong knowing that they will simply ignore you.

EinValentine · Aug 28, 2005, 01:51 PM // 13:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mormegil

If you feel like you can't help treating a poster like a pile of shit, just don't post, it's really that easy.

Harder to do than it seems, apparently.

My first impressions of this forum were very poor. The level of condescention and arrogance on display was staggering. However, despite the fact that many of the posters seem to have the social graces of a pack of hyenas, there is a wealth of information here that makes wading through the bullshit worth the time.

Aniewiel · Aug 28, 2005, 02:04 PM // 14:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by EinValentine

The level of condescention and arrogance on display was staggering. However, despite the fact that many of the posters seem to have the social graces of a pack of hyenas, there is a wealth of information here that makes wading through the bullshit worth the time.

Absolutely true on all points.

However, I do agree with the poster who said that the "professionals", the ostensible top tier players, should show a bit more restraint in their criticisms of newer players or players experimenting. After all, even professionals were once "noobs". That said, it's symptomatic of the way -most- professional "sportsmen/women" are in our society. Look at the childish arrogant dopes who play any professional sport. Those are the role models for others, sad to say. As with any group, however, there are both nice guys/gals and jerks. If one can look beyond the insults (on the negative side) or the strokes (on the positive side), there is indeed a wealth of information. That's why the search button is imperative and is a good "defense" against being ripped a new one.

spirit_of_ice · Aug 28, 2005, 02:26 PM // 14:26

Just be glad you didnt post it on The Guild Hall, there you would have been slaughtered. Be glad for small mercies

EinValentine · Aug 28, 2005, 02:29 PM // 14:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aniewiel

Look at the childish arrogant dopes who play any professional sport.

I'm trying to picture the young John McEnroe as a forumite.

Aniewiel · Aug 28, 2005, 02:37 PM // 14:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by EinValentine

I'm trying to picture the young John McEnroe as a forumite.

That's just....scary.

It's not just today's sports "heroes" that are this way. They've been around forever, huh? Luckily, there are good decent sorts out there too. I always think of the Cardinals' Kurt Warner as a prime example of that.

Quote:

Originally Posted by spirit_of_ice

Just be glad you didnt post it on The Guild Hall, there you would have been slaughtered. Be glad for small mercies

VERY true.

Sarus · Aug 28, 2005, 03:19 PM // 15:19

I was trying hard to not post in this thread but unfortunately I failed.

Believe it or not Nash and Eonwe are both very nice people. I play with Eonwe nearly everyday and I wouldn't be exaggerating at all if I told you he was the best warrior in iQ and probably one of the best in the game. I think some of the people that have played with us in arena can attest to the fact that we aren't as immature and snobbish as might come across on the boards.

Beleive it or not Nash and Eonwe both used to post very helpful replies to nearly everyone that asked questions on guru. Unfortunately, somewhere between the 100 and 150th ranger/warrior post they simply lost it and decided "why bother attempting to teach people when 90% of people don't want to learn." It doesn't feel good to spend 15-30 minutes carefully responding to someone's build as to why what they are running is no good only to have them respond "STFU you noob I know what I'm doing I wtfpwn noobs in random arena." When 90% of the time you try to help someone they respond NOT by arguing their case logically and soundly but by saying "I know this build is the best because I THINK it is" you are very quickly going to stop helping people and start flaming people when they do make those types of posts.

As was once quoted somewhere on this board "Don't argue with idiots. They bring you to their level and beat you with experience."

The fact of the matter is guildwarsguru is an established community where many many people (not just the moderators) have put a lot of time into it to make it what it is. When you come to these boards you are effectively stepping into someone else's house and this is a house where we embrace constructive arguments between intelligent critical thinkers and those looking to learn from those arguments.

There are countless examples of topics where people post "inferior" builds or skills and are NOT flamed for it because they are clearly here to learn why a certain build or skill is not good. They are not here to proclaim to the world against all logical reason why they think their R/W is the darnest greatest thing since sliced bread and will lash out illogically against anyone who attempts to point out to them why their build well .... sucks.

It's a sad fact that for every experienced intelligent poster turned "elitist" there are 10 stubborn and ignorant members that refuse to better themselves or rationally discuss anything. In the end we end up with a forums where I use the search button to search for posts by people like Ensign, Zrave, Scaphism and the small handful of people that actually contirbute to the pool of guildwars knowledge that have made guru what it is.

Loviatar · Aug 28, 2005, 03:24 PM // 15:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by spirit_of_ice

Just be glad you didnt post it on The Guild Hall, there you would have been slaughtered. Be glad for small mercies

actually (thank deity of choice) a large number of the elitests posting here are visitors from The Guild Hall

i visit their *outhouse* forum now and then and come back after washing my keyboard

Aniewiel · Aug 28, 2005, 03:36 PM // 15:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sarus

There are countless examples of topics where people post "inferior" builds or skills and are NOT flamed for it because they are clearly here to learn why a certain build or skill is not good.

It's a sad fact that for every experienced intelligent poster turned "elitist" there are 10 stubborn and ignorant members that refuse to better themselves or rationally discuss anything.

Best quotes of the thread. For every "bad" post, there are hundreds of good, constructive, helpful posts. Believe me when I tell you that I understand the frustration with endless repetition on the same topics/builds. At the same time, what might be old hat to some, is new material for others.

Now in my 21st year of teaching, I try to remember my 8 year old students whenever I find myself forced to reply to the ten-thousandth request for a word when they're reading: I grit my teeth, smile and tell them gently what it is....though my smile could possibly be construed as gnashing of teeth.

Nash · Aug 28, 2005, 03:42 PM // 15:42

OK, let's do a run down on these so horrible posts I made...

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nash

R/W.
With Power Attack.
And no Elite.
Best build ever.

Was I being rude? Yes.
Was I also making a point? Yes, again.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nash

The reason I and many others post posts like that, is that we've seen stuff like this so many times over, refuted it, have had people ignore our input and stick to their stupid builds, etc. Frankly, we're getting tired of posting the same things over and over, just to have people decide they know better anyway (which they don't).

This is exactly my point. Turns out you were just like all those others.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nash

OK, you want constructive?

Warrior primary is better.
16 in your weapon attribute, and some Strength owns using Expertise. Not enough energy? Adrenaline. It's there for a reason, so is Zealous haft.

This is me trying to be helpful and nice. I even gave you a good Axe build. Note how you ignored all my input because you want to play your "cool" R/W. No wonder noone posts constructive input. You said you wanted it, but then you just ignore it. This has happened a million times before, so people who actually know something about the game become bitter and post rude and sometimes non-constructive input. People like you made us into what we are.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nash

If you don't care about the best, then don't bother with this forum. I'm done with this thread, discussing scrub stuff is a waste of time.

The point of a build discussion is to discuss builds. Now, you might think this includes posting yet another crappy build so other scrubs can come pat you on the back, but this just clutters up the forum and is derogatory to serious build strategy discussion. So, if you feel the need to share your trash builds with other scrubs, do it elsewhere.

Neo-LD · Aug 28, 2005, 04:05 PM // 16:05

This Thread and This Thread and soon this thread, comined with Your Thread and about 1000 other R/W threads before you got here is what is causing people to go off on such short fuses. R/W is practically the most beaten to death topic on these boards, with so many threads arguing the same points back and forth that it is a little bit annoyingto have to explain why R/Ws suck to each and every newcomer, especially when you know that they wont understand, they will defend their R/W, and then the R/W supporters crew will come and turn it into another 10 pages of pointless debate.

You want to know why R/Ws suck? Go read those threads. Cus I guarentee you after all those threads (especially mine

) no one is in the mood for more R/W debate.

I hope you can see, that after so much debate, so many times proving the same points over and over and over and debunking the same points over and over and over that some people just have lose it when another comes along after the dust has settled on the last thread and says "hey lok what an awesome R/W I have!"

Quote:

I think Im going to go jump off a cliff

is the only natural response

Nash · Aug 28, 2005, 04:22 PM // 16:22

Not only that, he also posted an awful and clearly unfinished build. It didn't have an elite, and it used Power Attack on a Ranger primary. Really, what's the point?

c h a v e z · Aug 28, 2005, 05:40 PM // 17:40

Idiots just cant handle the fact the some stuff they pump out is just plain dumb, and then anyone with common sense who criticizes them is labeled as an eliteist, good o'l guru.

Oh, and just to let you know while your spamming those energy skills over and over you could be using adren skills with energy while your adren is charing up, its the same situation warrior primaries are always spamming attacks like your "cool looking-and-thats-about-it" r/w except the warrior primares have 16 in axe while your r/w has 12.

oh and the w primaries also have 13 armor penetration.

Is this really about "elitists" or do you just not want to face the fact that your build is inefficient.

Sagius Truthbarron · Aug 28, 2005, 05:54 PM // 17:54

I read what Slade wrote. He was being very responsive to the people who were on topic.

The topic was pretty much about Axe R/Ws and Nash goes off and posts a W/mo build >.>

I'm wondering why this guy bothered making a full topic in reply to 3-4 flames.

Aniewiel · Aug 28, 2005, 07:43 PM // 19:43

I have had a chance to read the original posts and have had a few PMs from the OP. I think that his true intent was to get some advice. As I said earlier: Though the R/W (or whatever the build might be) is "old news" to some people, it -isn't- to others. Perhaps his post there was a bit over the top but the responses weren't constructive either. Perhaps more helpful advice would have been to post links to some of the other discussions of the build.

I'm sure that, in retrospect, things on both sides could have been worded differently.