Curse

EternalTempest · Sep 02, 2005, 08:36 PM // 20:36

"Honor" is relative term with players

When I see Europe winning favor (I'm the us servers) my thought go Europe.
When I see Korea winning favor, my thought is US work harder.

Now other people see Europe or Korea winning and start shouting (cureseword) non-us server here.

When our team wins I usually /kneel out of respect, if we get beat and good battle usually shout gg before zoning back.

If our team gets wiped out and I'm last alive / can't raise anyone only time I run I will charge in and do as much damage as I can to the other team before being taken down.

My two cents on how I do things.

Epinephrine · Sep 02, 2005, 08:46 PM // 20:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ultimate_Gaara

heh i guess there are a lot of runners in this forum...

The point is if you have no rez and all of your team is dead and your not strong enough to beat 4 other guys just accept your fate and go down with honor... you guy do understand what the word honor means right?

I love your attitude. What a great assumption - akin to thinking that if you are for a change to ether renewal you must obviously hate smiting monks. Couldn't be because it's been unbalanced since retail.

First - I am not a runner and never have been, I run if there's a chance to res, to build energy and maybe fight better etc... not to prolong a match to boredom. I have much better things to do with my time. Yet I still say it's a legitimate tactic - it is a build that you didn't pack against, and is perfectly reasonable. The goal of the map is "eliminate all enemies" - they are using a tactic to thwart your goal. Playing to a tie is legit, and done in many games - if I lose a pawn or two in chess I'll likely play to a stalemate as the odds of my win are drastically reduced.

A tie system should be in place. Either let both teams on with no faction after X time; kick both teams out if neither has the victory at X time or make it sudden death after X time, to give the runner a chance - after all, if he stays away for 15 minutes and then the sudden death warning comes on, he can try to take out one of you before you drop him - a pretty tough challenge, but it might work. After X minutes of sudden death it's a tie, and both are kicked out or go on with no faction.

Your second point, about honour? That's entirely subjective. Some cultures feel that suicide is a noble way out. Other's condemn it as a coward's route. Some cultures feel that tactics such as guerilla warefare and civic resistance are wrong, others think that they are heroic. Some cultures feel that if you sacrifice yourself to take out the enemy it is a great act, others accuse you of being a coward or terrorist. Don't impose your cultural bias on the game.

Look at it this way:

2 player games have at least 2 options; win and lose. Some games have a third option - tie. Since it is clear that GW has many ways in which players can tie (for example, both teams having more healing power than the other can damage, running builds etc, equal number of kills) you either need to eliminate the ties or find a way to deal with them in game.

I have been part of a few long battles that ended probably because things got boring and routine, then the enemy didn't react right when we suddenly switched strategies - the game shouldn't get to the boredom poiint. It should address the issue of ties directly.

Should there be a tie? I think so - after all, why reward a win it based on damage dealt? Why not on healing accomplished? If there are two warriors left against one monk, and the monk can keep healing forever against them why would you declare the warriors winners? The monk is clearly a winner from another perspective - it's 2 against 1 and the enemy can't even drop him. He has healed way more than they have. His individual damage/time is far higher than either of theirs in terms of healing (negative damage).
I don't feel comfortable awardiing a win to either side in this situation. They should both lose - neither can fulfill the objective of wiping out the opponents.

Damage dealt isn't even accurate in a normal match - you can deal tons of damage to some builds and they heal through it and struggle on using shutdown to stop your healing. They win by doing WAY less damage than you did, but since they eliminated your heals they beat you. Damage dealt hardly seems accurate as a measure of those groups - what about spells shut down/diverted, energy stolen etc... These are all valid choices, and I see no way to select among them without bias, which is why a tie may indeed be the best option. Heck, disease doesn't even deal damage technically, it simply degenerates health.

Another possibility is to avoid having a time limit and simply have global health degeneration occurring. Just like that area of the Dragon caves, after X time health degen kicks in, and it gets bigger and bigger as time goes on, not stopping at 10 pips. Last one alive wins. If the runner can out heal the damage and stay alive longer, great! If not, too bad runner.

Red Sonya · Sep 02, 2005, 08:50 PM // 20:50

Hamstring has always followed me into competition arenas. I think everyone has encountered the asinine runners at least once in their gaming life, myself I see it daily. I also carry a weapon of "increases duration of cripple". Once I snag them once, they never get out of it and the rest of my team-mates can close in and smear them royally. Something else I enjoy bringing is Banish. Since I play a smite W/Mo in random pvp, this also is another way to stop a runner in their tracks, many will wait to start running at low life and since I also bring slash artery, they are bleeding when they start to run, a nice banish on top of that and it's sooo funny to watch them go poof. haha and if they stop to use their troll ungent (sp), then I got them with hamstring and tis all over but the smak talking.

Toral Xi · Sep 02, 2005, 09:09 PM // 21:09

I have seen the good and bad side of runners.
The bad side is that In one random match the last one left alive is a ranger and he ran for a good 20+ min before finally leaving the game, unfortunately I later got paired with him and luckily one member the other team had pin down for him. He ran for less than a minute and then he left the game just as he was about to die.

In another match, also teamed with a ranger (not same one as before), we all died and he started running. I started thinking to myself, oh no, here we go again but as it turned out he had not used his rez signet, brought back a teammate, and we ended up winning the game.

I think running has its place as a skill/ability but if you don't have a rez left, or are not a monk secondary, why bother?

Rothgar · Sep 02, 2005, 09:30 PM // 21:30

Running should not be a viable stragegy to get a win in any PvP battles. By running away the player has conceded they can't win the fight and have nothing else to do except to avoid the battle.

PvP in any online game is all about the fight and winning that fight, not about avoiding the fight. If your running, you lost, and by avoiding the battle your greifing.

Stalemates on the other had are a totally different story. If two players are fighting and neither can win there needs to be a way to resolve the impass. Right now the only way I've found to deal with this is to ask the other player if their willing to play Paper, Sissors, Rock for the win. The looser leaves. But this depends upon both people keeping their side of the bargin. An imperfect solution.

The only fair solution I can come up with is a X minute timer were after so long without doing significant damage to the other, the game calls a stalemate, and the teams are kept together and sent to the next fight with neither side getting any win awards.

Ultimate_Gaara · Sep 02, 2005, 09:33 PM // 21:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by Epinephrine

I love your attitude. What a great assumption - akin to thinking that if you are for a change to ether renewal you must obviously hate smiting monks. Couldn't be because it's been unbalanced since retail.

im not too sure if that is sarcam or not but i have no problems with killing smite monks, just W/Mo (that use protection and healing) and runners... Either Renewal is not that hard to take care of, its an enchantment so i have skills flying out my hoo ha that could solve that problem.. however i will agree it looks over powering

film · Sep 02, 2005, 09:42 PM // 21:42

i wasn't about to read this entire thread, and i dunno if someone hasn't said this already but... cmon how many skills are out there to stop a runner dead in his tracks? Its silly to think a ranger should be able to run around freely especially in organized team arena's and stay alive for more then an hour. Any degen skill, spike skill, crippling skill, strip enchant spell, wild blow type moves, or traps is all you need. As for those groups w/ 3 warriors and 1 monk with no crippling ability, you deserve to be griefed.

Mellow · Sep 02, 2005, 10:26 PM // 22:26

i find this so funny that i made a video about it.

http://burningsun.revilo-studios.co.uk/movies.html

under the mellow gets teh runs title

NOTE: that guild is dead

Ultimate_Gaara · Sep 03, 2005, 12:02 AM // 00:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by film

i wasn't about to read this entire thread, and i dunno if someone hasn't said this already but... cmon how many skills are out there to stop a runner dead in his tracks? Its silly to think a ranger should be able to run around freely especially in organized team arena's and stay alive for more then an hour. Any degen skill, spike skill, crippling skill, strip enchant spell, wild blow type moves, or traps is all you need. As for those groups w/ 3 warriors and 1 monk with no crippling ability, you deserve to be griefed.

Not always true, Rangers are masters at evasion, so unless you have a water ele you may be screwed

I can't believe you people actualy defend cowards with no hope of winning, luckly all runners are noobs so my teams normaly find a way to kill them.. its fun to kill them they always come up with classic noob remarks like "lol, i could have kept going but i got bored" which actualy means "i suck please kill my character"

As for the video, not impressive what so ever

Kai Nui · Sep 03, 2005, 12:25 AM // 00:25

You now have six (6) slots because you are damned to have a Snare and a Res Signet. Yay for skill!

Numa Pompilius · Sep 03, 2005, 12:30 AM // 00:30

Worse - this is random arena, so you also need to bring a self-heal.

In random, you need to be versatile, you can't be heavily specialized because you don't know who you'll team up with. Selecting skills for that is skill too.

Navaros · Sep 03, 2005, 03:16 AM // 03:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rothgar

Running should not be a viable stragegy to get a win in any PvP battles. By running away the player has conceded they can't win the fight and have nothing else to do except to avoid the battle.

PvP in any online game is all about the fight and winning that fight, not about avoiding the fight. If your running, you lost, and by avoiding the battle your greifing.

avoiding enemy players is an integral part of any Guild Wars battle. stand still, and you die. that is precisely why all players are always moving. therefore it is asinine to try to impose some sort of warped arbitrary standard like "a team that is no longer capable of killing the other team must suddenly stand still allow the other team to kill them"

i say players who try to impose that sort of thing upon runners (runners who are doing nothing wrong) are the ones who are griefing.

PVP is not only about winning the fight. it's also about not losing the fight.

besides that, endurance is also a factor in Guild Wars. if the runner has the endurance to keep avoiding the enemy until their own endurance runs out , then he has bested them on the field of battle and therefore is fully deserving of them leaving the game and having him be rightfully credited with having beat them.

if a runner has not been killed, then he did not lose. nor should he be assessed as having lost.

Autumn_Leaf · Sep 03, 2005, 03:21 AM // 03:21

the thing is the runner can't win and doesn't have the ability to win the fight. its just plain annoying to chase a guy around for 15 min knowing he has no means of winning besides u quitting. it is not skill to run around like a coward, but preventing a person from running period would just be whining. i dealt with these situations and i would just quit after a while b/c it was not worth the time.

Genos · Sep 03, 2005, 04:13 AM // 04:13

I usually run for a bit if my team dies... why? because when i play GvG, im the flag runner - hecnce runnign away from 4 people is a good way to get practice. that said, ill stop when its obvious they arent going to catch me - And yeah, snares a good - my fav tacti is to pin down a warrior, then strafe (that is run the hell away, while firing penetrating attack) him to death.

the thing is - Runnign is a valid tatic - IF you have a reason - ill run mid battle so i can survie, and ill run for flag running practice. running for the sake of beign an As***le is a big nono.

Nightwish · Sep 03, 2005, 05:41 AM // 05:41

I support runners who has res sig or some kind of resurrect skills with them. They managed to save their team from losing, I've seen it before.

But running to make your opponents bored until they leave is like omg tactic to win >.<

I agree with a draw/tie for both parties like what has been suggested by epinephrine but I hate quitting and lose the match just because the runner has more time on his hands.

Ultimate_Gaara · Sep 03, 2005, 07:42 AM // 07:42

To save a team is tactic, to annoy is a coward..

Ghost Recon · Sep 03, 2005, 07:02 PM // 19:02

I find it rather anoying as i only go 2 arena with my guild and we got 17 consecutive wins all flawless so we went onto the 18th match killed the first 3 guys then the stupid ranger desided 2 run about ( no offence but for me it is ALWAYS the rangers who like running ) anyways 20min l8r after we just let are spiker attack him while we talked me 1 of are team had 2 go so we all desided 2 leave but after the first 2 left he started tauting us saying that we where SOOO crap and that a ranger had killed us all so i told him where 2 get off and told his team he was a known hacker and all his team left

I was very anoyed as we wanted 2 get 2 20 flawless wins in a row.

jesh · Sep 03, 2005, 09:38 PM // 21:38

Is english your fourth language?

Divinitys Creature · Sep 03, 2005, 09:41 PM // 21:41

What are the solutions to this problem other than quitting or trying to snare?

Idea: put an upper time limit of 10 mintutes on all arenas (random or maybe team too). You'd only have to wait a max of 10 minutes then if it was only a one or two running they'd lose. Still wouldn't work for deliberate griefers that you can't kill.

More ideas for solutions please.