Curse

Lemmy · Aug 25, 2005, 12:43 PM // 12:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by trelloskilos

So wave your flag, toot your "Go Europe" horn, and insult anybody who doesn't share your small-minded "Us-vs.-Them" world view. I'll happily carry on farming UW, making friends worldwide, taking full advantage of my decision to play on whatever server I damn well please, and get on with the game instead of pointing accusatory fingers jealously out of sheer stubbornness and small-mindedness.

Yes, I must admit that it happens quite a lot mostly by 10-15 year old kids. It seems like a lot of unexperienced children try their strength in tombs and american teams after (or before) fight type "europe = free fame", "press alt+f4 to get ressed", etc. So it all causes this vicious circle. No one is innocent. I just noticed that most korean players are gentle and don't respond to any flames. Respect to them.

As for pvp lessons, a lot of people from Europe have experience and brain and play well. The reason why europe lose so much is that there is a lot of team (almost random) gathered, no one knows what skills have other persons. Happens that ranger casts NR screwing up his team, etc. Also european people started to isolate themselves, ie: teams where you must be rank 3+ to get in. That causes that newbie people have hard feelings to tombs and play on random/team arenas or not pvp at all. As for changing the way of favour I would say no. It is good as it is. I would be up to invite some new similar to FoW and UW area(s), when you need o pay ie: 500 faction points when you want to enter.
Many players enjoy arenas (me too, especialy random due to unexpected combinations), let them have a chance for good pve too.

ps. as for europa->america migration look at similarities in real life. people "having" bad in europe think that their life will change when they move somewhere else. If you have problem beat it, not run away from it. But it is my opinion.

Shamblemonkee · Aug 25, 2005, 12:43 PM // 12:43

In an attempt to bring some meaningful discussion as requested

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alex Weekes

* How many times have you visited the WaW maps (FoW and UW)? How long have you been playing for?
Never, 400+ hours apx.

* How often does Europe hold the Favour during your normal play time, and what time is that? Maybe once or twice per week. Playing 8-10, 2-3 days a week.

* Do you, or your guild, play in the Tombs in an attempt to win the Favour for Europe? If so, how often? No.

* IF changes to WaW were made, do you have any suggestions?

trelloskilos · Aug 25, 2005, 12:44 PM // 12:44

Quote:

* How many times have you visited the WaW maps (FoW and UW)? How long have you been playing for?

I've recently visited UW on a very regular basis. It's fun to smite run, but doing it repetatively becomes stale, so do the drops. The quests are my main draw as they offer healthy wallops of Exp., and are suitably challenging.

Before switching over, I played FoW a total of 4 times in 1 month, and we would usually be lagged out mid-quest. The decision to switch was after one of these sessions where the lag had gotten so bad that 3 players had simultaneous Err=7 disconnects, and the rest of us were killed during the 9 second pause

Quote:

* How often does Europe hold the Favour during your normal play time, and what time is that?

When I was on the Euro server, I would usually wait 1 week for a chance to get a 1 hour window into UW or FoW. I've seen increases in European guilds holding favour for longer more recently, but while I applaud guilds like Esoteric Warriors sticking up for the underdog, still don't swear allegiance to Europe, US or Korea.

Quote:

* Do you, or your guild, play in the Tombs in an attempt to win the Favour for Europe? If so, how often?

I don't, my guild doesn't either. We have participated in PvP as individuals, but all seem to prefer the PvE game. Also, the one time I decided to give HoH a go (after Europe lost their final HoH tournament battle), I encounterd so much animosity in ToPK, and amongst the team I joined that it put me off.

Quote:

* IF changes to WaW were made, do you have any suggestions?

Easy: Don't make it server-based. There is a solution right in the guide books based on the history of Tyria and the battles between Ascalon, Krytia and Orr. Rename each real-world server division into role-play areas on the Tyrian world and nationalism is practically gone. It's a role-playing game. Seeing "Korea", "USA" and "Europe" flash up in your game-world detracts from the immersive RPG experience.

After that, allow all guilds or players to register their allegiances with one of the three areas (Ascalon, Krytia and Orr), but also allow them to change whenever they feel like it. (Apply a fee each time someone switches allegiances to prevent this from happening all the time). This reduces any chance of nationalism to nothing, balances out the three areas completely, (either there's a good balance one day, and favour swings back and forth, or there is one dominant city, and the underdogs who are allied to a different area can shift the balance of power unexpectedly) and also allows the strategic allying of your own team to be another tactic to employ in the game. There will always be core-groups who will ally themselves to one area and NEVER change, and there will be other groups who just wish to play a tournament regardless of who it's actually for, so there will usually be a base of good parties in whatever area.

The final bonuses are that 1. anyone, anywhere on any server who have no interest in PvP, WaW etc. can still access UW and FoW without needing to wait for their locality to win HoH. and 2. Everyone gets the chance to "vote with their feet" with regards to the popularity of WaW.

aron searle · Aug 25, 2005, 12:47 PM // 12:47

Quote:

If I could make a change, I would make it so the number of successive wins required to win favour changed dependent on how long you'd been without. Perhaps something like need 1 win less per 12 hours without favour, so if you're gone 24 hours without, you'd only need 3 successive wins to claim.

The numbers would need to be tested and tuned of course. Perhaps increase base required wins to 7, then reduce by 1 every 8 hours (as each of the three regions should in theory hold for 8 hours a day), and set a minimum number of successive wins required as 3. The basic principle is that those who've been without favour the longest have the best chance of winning it.

Ive heard this idea several times, and seems the most sensible / easiest to implement.

* How many times have you visited the WaW maps (FoW and UW)? How long have you been playing for?

3 months FOW twice UW once

* How often does Europe hold the Favour during your normal play time, and what time is that?

normally around 11ish which is when i quit most days.

* Do you, or your guild, play in the Tombs in an attempt to win the Favour for Europe? If so, how often?

My and my guild are mostly PVE's and only occasionally do Team arenas.

Rieselle · Aug 25, 2005, 12:50 PM // 12:50

I'm so terribly sorry, but after seeing the thread title I couldnt resist...

Europe is leaving?

....can I have its stuff?

Rieselle -----> [] Box
now.

Lemmy · Aug 25, 2005, 12:59 PM // 12:59

* How many times have you visited the WaW maps (FoW and UW)? How long have you been playing for?

- playing for 2 months, was about 5 times

* How often does Europe hold the Favour during your normal play time, and what time is that?

- usually 2-3 hours, mostly 10pm-12am GMT

* Do you, or your guild, play in the Tombs in an attempt to win the Favour for Europe? If so, how often?
No, only just to play there.

* IF changes to WaW were made, do you have any suggestions?

- Maybe another kind of suggestion: Remember mission in dragon's lair? Every "sub-world" had some world modification (health degen, muddy terrain, stomp, etc). Inviting similar to WaW could bring a bit of random environment issue (like snow, rain, windy, dry in real life). One prefer different conditions, one build would suffer less, one would more. I think that battles would be more interesting. Also changing world modifications every 2 mins or bringing item somewhere to change it would invite more strategy there.

Myodato · Aug 25, 2005, 01:06 PM // 13:06

As somebody who has played in Tombs from Euro, US and International districts, I would say that the smaller numbers in the Euro district does have a very direct effect on the quality of the teams formed. Quite often on euro servers, there are so few people around that teams are formed simply on the basis of the first 7 to click accept. If you go to US or international there are more people around looking for teams, so leaders can be a lot more selective about who and what to take.

Whilst on euro servers, I think I used ts outside of a guild group once, in America, it's asked for almost everytime.

Whilst the numbers remain unbalanced, the favour will be also.

elhaym · Aug 25, 2005, 01:08 PM // 13:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by Oracle

Jingoism and xenophobia ftw!

/puke

i was being sarcastic

but i do like this idea..

Quote:

Originally Posted by Myodato

If I could make a change, I would make it so the number of successive wins required to win favour changed dependent on how long you'd been without. Perhaps something like need 1 win less per 12 hours without favour, so if you're gone 24 hours without, you'd only need 3 successive wins to claim.

The numbers would need to be tested and tuned of course. Perhaps increase base required wins to 7, then reduce by 1 every 8 hours (as each of the three regions should in theory hold for 8 hours a day), and set a minimum number of successive wins required as 3. The basic principle is that those who've been without favour the longest have the best chance of winning it.

combine that with the idea of getting the europeans lessons in pvp and it may go back to being 3 servers competing in HoH instead of the 2 and a half it seems like now. that is provided there are any europeans left playing for europe by that time.

Sayshina · Aug 25, 2005, 01:19 PM // 13:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by BrokenSymmetry

Is Europe leaving? Let me count the number of districts right now, at 2.30 AM on a weekday night:

Ascalon City (pre-searing): 22 districts
Ascalon City (post-searing): 29 districts
Lion's Arch: 17 districts

Seems pretty healthy to me, especially considering the time of day...

That's your idea of healthy? I can't help but wonder why you picked those 3 for your example. How about Elona's? How about ANY district that's even remotely out of the way? I've been noticing how bad the US districts have gotten, with rarely more than 12 tombs districts, and most of them don't have enough guys in them to make a team. Try actualy going into those districts. And that's the supposedly "crowded" US. The whole game is pretty much dead, I didn't even know people could still delude themselves into thinking that wasn't gospel.

By the way, they're not going to shut down Europe unless/until they shut down the whole game. If they won't even consider the POSSIBILITY that they might have made any mistake whatsoever with UAS, they're certainly not going to admit they screwed up with the whole WaW concept.

Hippie Crack · Aug 25, 2005, 01:22 PM // 13:22

PvPX is the perfect opportunity, All of A.Net staff should be forced to stay in the Euro Tomb's districts for the duration of the weekend. They can only have 2 of them in a team, and must lead/teach euro PUG's how to do some real PvP.

The idea of another location similar to UW/FoW but accessed with faction is a nice idea too. Alot of PvE guilds do arena's pretty often from what i hear, so it can give them some sort of reward for trying PvP once in awhile.

Sendai · Aug 25, 2005, 01:23 PM // 13:23

* How many times have you visited the WaW maps (FoW and UW)? How long have you been playing for?
I play since the release of the game (and WPE before that). With my Euro account i'd say i've been to the FoW or UW about 10-15 times. (i recently bought an American account).

* How often does Europe hold the Favour during your normal play time, and what time is that?
I play about 1-2 hours every day. i'd say i have an opportunity the go to WaW maps once or twice a week during my play time. Favor duration is 1-2 hours during my play time (9-11 PM GMT+2)

* Do you, or your guild, play in the Tombs in an attempt to win the Favour for Europe? If so, how often?
We used to. But we now prefer play GvG where's there's little rude behavior no team alliance and less spirit spammers.

* IF changes to WaW were made, do you have any suggestions?
Why not make the WaW concept god based instead of territory based.

Team from european country would fight for.. Say Grenth, so each time an european team holds the HoH, only Grenth's Statues becomes active (in every server). Same for US and Balthazar, etc...
so that, every server would have a constant acces to a WaW map the only limitating point is where you can go.

The cons are:
- there's currently 3 territory and (only !) 2 active maps. Perhaps, like said in a previous post, make it "Kingdom based" instead of "real world territory based" so you would have to choose if you want to fight for grenth or balthazar.

- what if everyone choose the same god, what if 90% of the teams choose to have access to the FoW. I honestly don't have a solution for this. The most obvious answer is to say "just balance well the WaW maps" but i think you have to have a good incentive for each map/kingdom

CoCantz · Aug 25, 2005, 01:31 PM // 13:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dreamcatcher X

Didn't the game get released over the US & Korea first? Surely they would have gained some advantage over the Euro servers?

No - I pre.Ordered and got it the day before release like everyone else

Im from Denmark, EU and I changed to America after... <2 days of GW because:
1. I hate german end french
2. EU-players were terrible nOObs atm | I played the betas so concider myself at least a bit skilled
3. The time of day when I play fits better to american servers ;-)

beside I totally agree with Leriel Frostbringer even though I only played for 2 days on the servers - I know, sounds lame - but thats also what I have heard from ppl still playing on EU-servers

Quote:

Originally Posted by Leriel Frostbringer

Main reason for me switching to US servers was number of people, and thus super high availability of whatever i needed to purchase. Needless to say, I had serious troubles finding whatever I needed on EU servers.
I moved before european language districts update, so not seeing tons of french and german spam (in case anyone wants to flame for this statement - i am against usage of ANY nonenglish language, including polish, in main/team chat [unless all members speak this language ^^], and such behavior would quickly lead to bannition from our guild even tho we are national-only guild) in US was an extra bonus.

I´m on my way back to EU along with the rest of my guild, cuz I like to play with EU (the danish/english speaking part) and win the HoH for EU ;-P ... so I think its kinda wierd/sad/funny when I play in a UW/FoW party and only 1-3 players are americans...

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

I agree with Myodato in kinda everything he says... expecially this

Quote:

Originally Posted by Myodato

...is give us at least one area of similar level content to UW that doesn't require favour.

Another idea could be to force a change of the Favor every ?!? 3-5-7-10 hour, so the Favor change several times everyday, and if you just want to go into UW/FOW you can... even if you dont play on US.
Offcourse the Favor would change soon if it´s not defended... but then you can be sure to get in WaW

- CoCantz
no - I dont fix spell errors

trelloskilos · Aug 25, 2005, 01:36 PM // 13:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by elhaym

you europeans are just making excuses to just be lazy and ride the american's coat tails. get back on your own server, im sick of getting stuck with frenchies who have no clue whats going on during the time i play when i try to go in fow. the point to having the euro server is so we americans dont have to suffer these language barriers. :P

Post scanned for sarcasm - If you're trying to be funny, at least put a smilie, or a (just kidding) in there. Even then, your post demonstrates a complete lack of thought and potential to offend.

I guess you're either one of those people who likes to tell obscene jokes at funerals, or you're trying to divert an inevitable backlash with a "Oh, I didn't really mean all that, jeez you're so uptight" type of statement. Either way, you've got some serious issues, and really need help.

Fantus · Aug 25, 2005, 01:49 PM // 13:49

I am an European player who switched to US server a month ago. But I can give you the figures from the day just before I left and hope it's helpful:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alex Weekes

* How many times have you visited the WaW maps (FoW and UW)? How long have you been playing for?

Exactly 1 time - my total number of gaming hours was around 500 hours then (it's 750 hours now).

(since I switched over to US, more than 20 times)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alex Weekes

* How often does Europe hold the Favour during your normal play time, and what time is that?

In all that time I played on EU servers, I can recall EU having favor during my playing time about 4 or 5 times. My playing hours are usually somewhere in between 10am - 11pm GMT. My guildmates told me that EU often seems to get favor at night, from maybe 1am on. I never play at these times.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alex Weekes

* Do you, or your guild, play in the Tombs in an attempt to win the Favour for Europe? If so, how often?

No, I am in a PvE oriented guild. I only play PvP in Arenas since the over-competitive atmosphere in Tombs turns me off big time.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alex Weekes

* IF changes to WaW were made, do you have any suggestions?

Alex, please forgive me saying so, but the only real improvement for WaW would be to do away with it. You shouldn't have to do PvP in order to get access to PvE areas. All that WaW has caused is a rise in nationalism, xenophobia and name calling - and utter frustration among players who want to go to the only challenging PvE areas left after finishing the storyline - but can't because of the lack of "favor".
In this very thread you can see a certain post on page 1 calling people like me who chose to move to US to finally escape the perils of the WaW concept "traitors" and "cowards". Do you need any more proof that WaW is a very bad idea in general?

PvE areas should be unlockable/accessible by doing PvE - that's my suggestion.

Lexar · Aug 25, 2005, 01:51 PM // 13:51

* How many times have you visited the WaW maps (FoW and UW)? How long have you been playing for?

Often. Over 30 times. Maybe not so much for US people, but this is an extremely large amount for EU players. I've been playing since day one. Still don't have enough for a nice fissure armor, even though two generous guildies pass all their ectos and shards on to me. We are pretty much forced to play in the dead of the night, and we don't have that much choice in PUG either, we should be happy to take anyone with us. Also, we can't afford to die, by the time we have a team, and enter FoW or UW, the favor is already taken again.

* How often does Europe hold the Favour during your normal play time, and what time is that?

Usually they get the favor at central european time (amsterdam, paris) at about midnight, to maybe 1 am. and then quickly lose it as well. And most of the times it's esoteric warriors, or an other handfull of brave guilds. These guys really deserve to be guild of the week for doing so much for the european GW community.

* Do you, or your guild, play in the Tombs in an attempt to win the Favour for Europe? If so, how often?

Yes, we do. We try to, at least, and if we have a choice, yes, we rather attack US and maybe even koreans (although they are in general by far less insulting and way more mature than US teams). We get the favor so little, you can't blame Europeans for ganging up on others. We need all the edge we can get, because we're so outnumbered. Pretty much all of the members in my guild won in the HoH at some point (though never as a full guild) and it even won the favor for europe once. But for every european team trying to win the favor, the rest of the day the HoH is dominated by the US or Korea.

* IF changes to WaW were made, do you have any suggestions?

Maybe do it so that there are 3 hours in the day when the favor is fixed. The US, Korea, and Europe all get one hour of favor regardless of how they're doing in the hall. And it goes without saying those hours are in the prime time of their respective 'world'. The rest of the 21 hours are open for battle.

What to do during the 3 hours when the favor is fixed? Maybe earn 4 sigils per team instead of 3, to still make it worth winning.

Or another idea: when a continent doesnt have the favor, an other area opens up. For those outside of the favor of the gods. Maybe some sort of punishment realm or whatnot, to fit it into the story. So even though it won't help europe win the favor more often, it will make for a migration back to europe to play in those areas, because they have the favor less often. And by migrating back, it will eventually even out the favor distribution.

Also EU > US migrating people might wash their hands in innocence, and say they just do it for the game, but they're definately not making the problem any better. In fact they make the game experience for those people that still want to play for their continent less fun, maybe indirectly, but the effect is noticeable, and it's the sort of problem that exponentially gets worse as well. More people leave, playing in EU is even worse, thus even more people leave, etc. If none of those people migrated in the first place, maybe europe would win more. It's usually the more than casually playing people that migrate because they would care more about the favor, and that's exactly the sort of people Europe needs more.

Myodato · Aug 25, 2005, 02:02 PM // 14:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lexar

Also EU > US migrating people might wash their hands in innocence, and say they just do it for the game, but they're definately not making the problem any better. In fact they make the game experience for those people that still want to play for their continent less fun, maybe indirectly, but the effect is noticeable, and it's the sort of problem that exponentially gets worse as well. More people leave, playing in EU is even worse, thus even more people leave, etc. If none of those people migrated in the first place, maybe europe would win more. It's usually the more than casually playing people that migrate because they would care more about the favor, and that's exactly the sort of people Europe needs more.

I have no desire to wash my hands of guilt, I know I have made the situation worse by moving. The thing is though, if I hadn't moved, it wouldn't matter because I would hardly be playing at all. UW and FoW is the only high end content available, and nothing else really offers a challenge to those who've got 3 lvl 20 characters.

If I wasn't on US servers, and therefore didn't have regular access to WaW content, I would mostly only log on for guild PVP.

elhaym · Aug 25, 2005, 02:12 PM // 14:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by trelloskilos

Post scanned for sarcasm - If you're trying to be funny, at least put a smilie, or a (just kidding) in there. Even then, your post demonstrates a complete lack of thought and potential to offend.

I guess you're either one of those people who likes to tell obscene jokes at funerals, or you're trying to divert an inevitable backlash with a "Oh, I didn't really mean all that, jeez you're so uptight" type of statement. Either way, you've got some serious issues, and really need help.

::: puts on the serious hat:::: yes, i like to tell jokes at funerals, only when it is the type that is especially grevious though.

seriously though, lighten up. the part about the frenchies was a joke, most are canadian anyways. besides, of the languages i see in ToA at the late american hours in which im normally there, french is the one im most familiar with. its just became rather amusing of late joining parties in which 6 of 8 will be non english speaking europeans. maybe this also explains why america still has favor at such late/early hours?

Rulke · Aug 25, 2005, 02:12 PM // 14:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alex Weekes

* How many times have you visited the WaW maps (FoW and UW)? How long have you been playing for?

3 times. Twice to FoW, once to UW. I've been playing for 400-500 hours, for several months.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alex Weekes

* How often does Europe hold the Favour during your normal play time, and what time is that?

During my normal playtime, it appears randomly, somewhere between once and twice a week. My normal playtime is 7pm-10pm GMT. On the 3 occasions I got into the WaW areas, it was when I kept playing several hours longer than usual, for some reason.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alex Weekes

* Do you, or your guild, play in the Tombs in an attempt to win the Favour for Europe? If so, how often?

No. I do not know how to PvP effectivly, no-one in my guild knows how to, or can teach me, and there are normally 2 other people in my guild on at the same time as me. I am put off the tombs by the hypercompetitive nature of it, my lack of PvP skills, and the uselessness of the groups that don't require everyone to have rank 3 or higher.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alex Weekes

* IF changes to WaW were made, do you have any suggestions?

My favourite suggestion is to remove the WaW system from determining access to the only high level PvE in the game, and haveaccess to the areas be determined by a teams skill in completeing a PvE challenge, such as being taken to an area where you need to kill a certain number of monsters before time ran out, with many mobs of monsters present, all approaching the difficulty of the area you wish to enter, but with the monsters leaving no drops.
The WaW system could be used to determine access to a top level PvP area, where there is some incentive to go, such as greater faction rewards, or an increased team size, which you access through a waiting area that is only available once your country has favour, and you need to pay some faction to enter, and should your team lose, you need to pay the faction cost again to gain entry to the waiting area, before you can make another team to fight there.

Numa Pompilius · Aug 25, 2005, 02:13 PM // 14:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alex Weekes

* How many times have you visited the WaW maps (FoW and UW)? How long have you been playing for?

Once to the UW. Since one week after release.

Quote:

* How often does Europe hold the Favour during your normal play time, and what time is that?

Really don't know. I feel I see the message about once per day.

Quote:

* Do you, or your guild, play in the Tombs in an attempt to win the Favour for Europe?

Nope.

Quote:

* IF changes to WaW were made, do you have any suggestions?

Not really, as I'm totally uniterested in PvP. Possibly that people in this thread should differentiate between HoH and the game in general. It's possible that there aren't many european teams playing in HoH, because it seems most are like my guild, and only do PvE. There's certainly no shortage of players in the towns on the PvE map.

burai · Aug 25, 2005, 02:14 PM // 14:14

Alex,

I've only been in FoW or UW once, and I have been playing for ~500hrs (since release).

Seen Europe win HoH a few times "Go Europe", but it's almost always when it's time to log-off.

Been to Tombs once - got my arse kicked by 100s of minions and lost the will to live. You need to be a well-practiced PvPer to get anywhere in Tombs IMHO. I'm a mostly-PvE type (ie: I want Europe to win Favour, but I'm not that interested in participating). I do enjoy the mindless violence of the arena from time to time, but Tombs is a little heavy.

I'm sorry not be more constructive on your last question, but I wish PvE was completely unrelated to WaW. Again, whilst I want Europe to win HoH as often as possible "Go Europe again", I don't like my trips to FoW or UW being reliant on it.

Maybe the UK could be classed as America "Go America" (sorry Europe), as we're almost the 51st state anyway

Blair for vice-president