Curse

dargon · Sep 06, 2005, 11:27 PM // 23:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by Epinephrine

Off topic, but: No, it's damage per enchanment on each creature, separately. Each only has about 7 enchantments on them, so it'd be 30+7*12=114 damage. Not exactly thrilling. Even maxed out you are only getting ~22 per enchantment, and that's at 16 curses IIRC. Granted, it'd be a lot of damage, but it goes to show how weak desecrate is - the ultimate situation in which it should be ultra powerful and it still only does about 200 damage to your opponent, with a 16 curses and the opponent wearing 7 enchantments! If they cut its recharge time a bit it'd be more useable, but a 15 second recharge on a spell that will often do only about 60 damage is not overly impressive.

Damn you, spoil my dream of watching an entire team explode with a single spell

ElderAtronach · Sep 06, 2005, 11:27 PM // 23:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by Arcanis Imperium

Wow, maybe I read this wrong:
Ether Renewal {Elite} - Enchantment Spell
For 10 seconds, each time you cast a spell, you gain 1-4 energy and 5-17 health for each enchantment on you.

So you have two Enchantments on you (3 if you put Death Nova on yourself), as opposed to the 80 on the Emo build...and that's overpowered? And let me see what else? And are using two very crappy, easily broken Hexes... All you've done is healed yourself and gotten back your energy...and then you have to wait 30 seconds for you Enchantment to come back, by which time someone will have probably owned you unless your Monk is healing you.

Maybe if you knew what the hell ether renewal was and was not capable of, you'd stop posting this nonsense. Those 80 enchants in that screenie were maintained, but it didn't matter because energy degen caps at -10. Look at the effects bar a bit closer: he's only got 6 enchants maintained *on himself*, and ether renewal would make 7 once it recharged and he could cast it again.

Guess what, all he's doing to get his energy back is to spam boon. If you know of any other skill that lets you get ~120 energy back in 10 seconds while having -10 energy degen at the same time, please share it with us.

Quote:

And dont give that thing about "Well, you obviously have never played against a good Necro who could use this" Apparently you dont know shit about me. I'll tell you what this build will do, if you use 3 other great spells. It'll let you cast high end Necro spells with big costs and huge recharge times all at once. You'll be able to take out a single target in almost no time. And then when Ether Renewal is over, you will have to wait for every thing to recharge and your build, which is based on the one skill, will be down to probably your two hexes.

Apparently you don't know shit about the build I posted. And where are you getting this "able to take out a single target in almost no time" from? There are no such necromancer spells, otherwise people would be using necros more often. What kills me is your last sentence in that paragraph, waiting for everything to recharge? When ether renewal is over, your mana and health bars will be full.

Quote:

Also, unless your casting huge cost skills, Aura isnt going to be doing much except sitting there pretty for you with ER. Especially since the 3 spells you listed are all 5 in cost.

Dont get me wrong at all, I'm not bashing your build. What I'm saying is this build is in no way broken. Its powerful, but not overly.

Tell you what, I'll let you in on a little secret: I threw that "build" together in like 10 seconds off the top of my head, basing it around ether renewal and spells with low recharge times. Whats broken about it is its energy engine: ether renewal. Hey, let's flesh out those 3 other skills: faintheartedness, suffering, and chilblains.

Now lets give you about 20 seconds to cast all those curses on the entire team. After that, your mana should be running a bit low right? Fire up ether renewal, spam malaise/parasitic while tabbing targets, and LO! You have full health and mana, and gaining ~90 health in 20 second intervals from parasitic bond! The other team all has ~6 health degen and 2 mana degen!

Broken? Nah, can't be.

Odd Sock · Sep 06, 2005, 11:35 PM // 23:35

EDIT: Elder replied faster than I did, meh

Quote:

Originally Posted by Arcanis Imperium

And let me see what else? And are using two very crappy, easily broken Hexes...

I think the purpose of this build was to serve as cover enchants. He also just laced the other team with Energy debilitating skills which is in no way something to be neglected. Malaise is a good skill, even if you can focus swap to take it off, it's still a very good and controlling skill.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Arcanis Imperium

All you've done is healed yourself and gotten back your energy...and then you have to wait 30 seconds for you Enchantment to come back, by which time someone will have probably owned you unless your Monk is healing you.

That's pretty much what a regular elmo does as well. He spams his junk and then has a downtime, where are you getting with this ? Cause by that logic and Elmo would be bad too

Quote:

Originally Posted by Arcanis Imperium

Apparently you dont know shit about me.

And we don't want to either. Stop taking this thread so personally.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Arcanis Imperium

I'll tell you what this build will do, if you use 3 other great spells. It'll let you cast high end Necro spells with big costs and huge recharge times all at once.

From the skill description that's not what he wanted to do. All what he seems to have wanted was to spam hexes on the other team. Maybe for cover-ups maybe for energy debilitation. Either way it's still very dangerous and he probably just made that build in like 20 seconds to show you that Ether Renewal is broken, or at least grossly overpowered.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Arcanis Imperium

Also, unless your casting huge cost skills, Aura isnt going to be doing much except sitting there pretty for you with ER. Especially since the 3 spells you listed are all 5 in cost.

You have no idea what you are talking about. It shows in that quote right there.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Arcanis Imperium

Anyone ever teach you about Relativity using numbers as representatives and not as actual figures?

This is my 3rd year in mechanical engineering, yea I think I know more than enough about numbers and figures. What you posted is the equivalent of saying my car can produce 1000. 1000 what ? Watts ? lb/ft ? Next time you give give out numbers in a sequence like you did at least giev to where the scale goes. Furthermore you just blurted out those numbers without giving any proof. Tell me, and show me how you got those numbers and maybe I'll change my opinion about you (that you don't know what you're talking about)

Forboding Angel · Sep 06, 2005, 11:42 PM // 23:42

I maintain 15 enchants on my party using blessed and OOB.

Edit: Sorry, horrbily out of context. Was replying to someone on the first page.

FrogDevourer · Sep 06, 2005, 11:45 PM // 23:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yamat

Every build has a counter.
Nuff said.

We have a winner. I'm sure you can read the entire thread and find why your post is wrong, and may be propose something better.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Arcanis Imperium

SHOW
ME ... ELEMENTALIST/MONK

Enchantment x 2 + 1 or 2 Spammable skill + ER = infinite energy for 12s and +15pips in average
the weakest mono elementalist example :
fire attunement + aura of restoration + flare + ER = energy pool refilled every 30s
You don't need a secondary profession. If you're unable to use such a retarded energy engine decently with the skill slots left, you really need help.

This thread is becoming ridiculous. Stupid posts, trolls, lazy posters who don't bother reading the objective and relevant arguments, and the best they can come up with crumbles with a small breeze, but they are still firmly convinced. Quoting Chuck's signature: "Don't argue with idiots. They bring you to their level and beat you with experience."

Thanks to the OP for this very cool screenshot. We knew it could be done, but you must have been very patient to throw & maintain all this stuff.

ElderAtronach · Sep 06, 2005, 11:46 PM // 23:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by Forboding Angel

I maintain 15 enchants on my party using blessed and OOB.

That's nice. What happens when you don't run maintained enchants? You use OoB. Compare that to Ether Renewal. GG.

Forboding Angel · Sep 07, 2005, 12:14 AM // 00:14

Yes, sorry about that elder. Like my edit said It was horribly out of context and directed towards someone on the first page.

See if either renewal worksed a bit like blessed signet then I think it would be more balanced.

For example: For each enchantment on you you gain 1-3 energy and 1-7 health. But it should not be an enchantment itself. THats just broken. Hell I can spam reversal and draw as well as others and have shitloads of energy.

After doing some research I believe what is happening is actually an exploit and an oversight by anet. Good god, I'mma go make an air build with this. I never used ether when it got popular because I thought it was cheap. I had no idea. Holy shit. All you need is:

aura of restoration
earth attune
air attune
water attune fire attune
Ether renewal
stoning/flare/etc
immolate
fireball.

I realize that those spells are low damage but listen to this for a sec.

While er is up you spam stoning or flare or whatever like a mofo. BAM energy recharged. THe damage dealt would be 46 per stone. After er ends start spamming fireball, immolate and stoning/flare.

THat is a LOT of damage. I honestly don't think that the monks could keep up with the damage dealt if you had 2 people doing this.

THink about 4 eles doing something like this. OW, DADDY IT BURNS!

Syno Nym · Sep 07, 2005, 12:15 AM // 00:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yamat

Every build has a counter.
Nuff said.

It seems to me many people here need to get back to school and learn to read again...

I'll make a brief summary since they don't want to make the effort...

Let's imagine, tomorrow with the release of Sorrow Furnace, Anet gives us a totally new spell for necromancer. Let's call it... Finger of death (yeah I played ADD too much...). It allows necro to kill everyone in one hit, takes 2 seconds to cast and is elite.

This skill has a lot of counters, such as interruption, Signet of humility, etc...
Do you really think this skill would be balanced ?

Theus · Sep 07, 2005, 12:29 AM // 00:29

Yeah.I'm getting sick of this "Its Elite so Its Justified" and "Theres a Counter use it" BS.

Forboding Angel · Sep 07, 2005, 12:38 AM // 00:38

nym lol, thats a good point.

Me personally I would love a skill like that.

Honestly I wouldn't be unhappy to see elites fly out the window and never be seen again.

coleslawdressin · Sep 07, 2005, 01:04 AM // 01:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by Forboding Angel

Honestly I wouldn't be unhappy to see elites fly out the window and never be seen again.

I agree.. A more aggressive approach to balancing could make pvp a lot more fun.. I hope they are considering adding another similarity to Magic:TG and remove certain skills for tournament play.. it could work out.. hopefully when we see a few more expansions and a lot of skills added we will see more diversity.. I want to say.. "omg I got beat by this weird smiting-necro minion build", not "Sigh, another FotM team"..

Due to my aversion to whining, I can't be assed to read this whole thread for the first time, but I want to make a suggestion.. sorry if it has already been made.. Ether renewal is Energy storage right? Divine boon only works on the monk primary attribute, DF, and only on monk spells.. it should be the same for ER.. only give regen for casting ele spells.. fair and fixes the balance issue

smurfhunter · Sep 07, 2005, 01:32 AM // 01:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by coleslawdressin

Due to my aversion to whining, I can't be assed to read this whole thread for the first time, but I want to make a suggestion.. sorry if it has already been made.. Ether renewal is Energy storage right? Divine boon only works on the monk primary attribute, DF, and only on monk spells.. it should be the same for ER.. only give regen for casting ele spells.. fair and fixes the balance issue

whoa grade A idea! that really clicked with me, and its like the first reasonable nerf suggestion ive heard. only prob is, elemental attunement does the same thing... (or almost)

there should be a monkal attunement

Homo · Sep 07, 2005, 03:46 AM // 03:46

Any spell that can be countered should not be considered overpowered period...............

Mercury Angel · Sep 07, 2005, 03:52 AM // 03:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by Homo

Any spell that can be countered should not be considered overpowered period...............

I really hope you don't mean that.

Win Game
Elite spell
Energy cost: 25
Casting Time: 60 seconds

You win the battle. This spell is easily interrupted.
Counter: Run really really fast and hit them. This spell causes exhaustion.

Broken Combo: Glyph of Sacrafice

Anti-Win Game
Elite Spell
Energy Cost: 5
Casting Time: 1/4th second

Any attempts by the opposing team to cast Win Game fail for the rest of the battle.

You either have to run the spell, run the counter, or run both.

The spell effects are balanced with each other, but the effect on the game and the environment are too great to exist. Tell me Win Game isn't overpowered just because Anti-Win Game exists... I need a good laugh.

Edit: Sorry for having to get rediculous, but these posts are getting out of hand.

Edit:

While we're at it, let's look at balancing limitations. Is a spell balanced just because it has heavy penalties?

Lucky Win
Elite Spell
Cost: 25
Casting Time: 60 seconds
Recharge: 120 seconds

If today is Saturday at the 7th hour (AM or PM) EDT, roll 2 dice. If the sum of the dice are 7, you win the game. If any of the conditions are off, this spell has no effect. (This spell fails unless you have 7 Divine Favour).

With only 2 hours useable per week at a percentage chance, this skill won't see too much useage... But when the conditions are right, it can grant you an instant-win with no effort. Glyph of Sacrafice, 8 monks, and spam it. Run for your life if it fails, and cast it again until it works or you die.

How about difficult or impractical counters?

Mesmer-B-Gone Spray
Elite Skill
Cost: 15
Casting Time: 1 second
Recharge: 20 seconds

Instantly slay a primary or secondary mesmer.

Mesmer-B-Gone Away
Spell
Cost: 5
Casting Time: 1/4th seconds
Recharge: 10 seconds

Interrupt target's action if it is Mesmer-B-Gone Spray.

Good luck and have fun interrupting that every 20 seconds.

---

Ether Renewal does not reach those extremes. However, these examples are just to demonstrate that simply because a counter exists does not mean the skill isn't broken.

OverlordTyrael · Sep 07, 2005, 04:16 AM // 04:16

Mercury Angel, I have to say that that had to be one of the most amusing, fun to read, beautifully written post that I have ever seen on these forums. I love those spells. Thumbs Up!

Arcanis Imperium · Sep 07, 2005, 04:33 AM // 04:33

I think a good Elite along those lines, but more practical would be a Necro Death Elite.

Sacrificial Touch: You and Target touched foe die. All allies in the area are lose 25% of their max health

The last part would lead to less moaning about it just being a spell where Necros run up to Monks and kill them. Causing your team mates to lose a fourth of their health would piss a few off.

Asplode · Sep 07, 2005, 04:58 AM // 04:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by Forboding Angel

Yes, sorry about that elder. Like my edit said It was horribly out of context and directed towards someone on the first page.

See if either renewal worksed a bit like blessed signet then I think it would be more balanced.

For example: For each enchantment on you you gain 1-3 energy and 1-7 health. But it should not be an enchantment itself. THats just broken. Hell I can spam reversal and draw as well as others and have shitloads of energy.

After doing some research I believe what is happening is actually an exploit and an oversight by anet. Good god, I'mma go make an air build with this. I never used ether when it got popular because I thought it was cheap. I had no idea. Holy shit. All you need is:

aura of restoration
earth attune
air attune
water attune fire attune
Ether renewal
stoning/flare/etc
immolate
fireball.

I realize that those spells are low damage but listen to this for a sec.

While er is up you spam stoning or flare or whatever like a mofo. BAM energy recharged. THe damage dealt would be 46 per stone. After er ends start spamming fireball, immolate and stoning/flare.

THat is a LOT of damage. I honestly don't think that the monks could keep up with the damage dealt if you had 2 people doing this.

THink about 4 eles doing something like this. OW, DADDY IT BURNS!

I ran something similar to this in comp arenas, just to test out ER, it went as follows:

EtherRenewal
Auraofrestoration
Earthattunement
armorofearth
kineticarmor
wardagainstmelee
wardagainstelements
stonedaggers

Well I don't need to explain the dynamics, let's just say that I had to leave every non-mesmer game because they couldn't kill me, ever.

-edit-

Oh, and while we're making up stupid skills, how about a new nature spirit!

Nature's Renewal. 5energy, 5s cast, 60s recast
Remove all enchantments and hexes in the area. Enchantments and hexes henceforth take twice as long to cast.

....oh wait.

ok, take 2: Drought. 5e, 5s cast, 60s recast
Stop all healing from all sources in the area.

Counter: Kill the fkn spirit, n oob kllol.

Sainte · Sep 07, 2005, 05:12 AM // 05:12

Just to put it in perspective, I played a El/WARRIOR using ER, using all 7 elem skills and 1 res sig, and I managed to stay at full HP/MP all the time, just like a El/Mo can. Its simple, using 1 spell I could gain 0-90 energy back in a few seconds.

Ether Renewal
Aura of Restoration
Stone Daggers
Stoning
Ward of Melee
Ward of Elements
Armor of Earth
Res Sig

Its overpowered, even with Elem Skills only. I could stay alive and do some damage/help my team while doing it.

Also, all you saying its balanced because there is a counter, and it works for a E/Mo only, which I just proved wrong. How about this..

PROTECTIVE BOND! Oh look, people whined about that being overpowered, because it made monks gods. How come Prot Bond is magiccally IMMUNE to the arguement that a single enchant strip or a life stealing skill can over the monk, and the fact that it is usable only in PvE, in like 2% of the total game world. Did the skill get the nerf bat? Of course, and look, it wasnt even useful in any PvP/PvE besides random arena and UW/FoW and some other areas.

Now look at Ether Renewal. It has uses in ANY place in the game, including HoH and GvG, the areas where PB was utterly useless. It can be much more deadly, because if you strip it, the E/Mo wont die in 1 hit from anything, he just waits a little bit and casts it again. It is being abused to hell.

I swear, some people are just dumb. Saying ER can be countered DOES NOT make it a balanced skill. No skill that can give full energy in 3 seconds and enable a MAGE to tank 4 warriors is balanced. Yes, ive tried it, yes I survived without problems. Yes, they couldnt strip me, but I didnt die when it was off, because full energy means more spamming and healing. What are the actual counters to ER? Interupt and the odd strip, because unless you are sure the E/Mo has it on, you will waste a strip.

Its overpowered and unbalanced. End of arguement.

Numa Pompilius · Sep 07, 2005, 08:25 AM // 08:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by ElderAtronach

And where are you getting this "able to take out a single target in almost no time" from? There are no such necromancer spells

I suspect he's run into N/Me frag mesmers. They're common as muck in random arenas.

Odd Sock · Sep 07, 2005, 02:54 PM // 14:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by Arcanis Imperium

I think a good Elite along those lines, but more practical would be a Necro Death Elite.

Sacrificial Touch: You and Target touched foe die. All allies in the area are lose 25% of their max health

The last part would lead to less moaning about it just being a spell where Necros run up to Monks and kill them. Causing your team mates to lose a fourth of their health would piss a few off.

Who the hell cares ? You make 7 of those guys, put up an Edge of Extincition then go explode tyourself and the other team. Leave a fast cast res mesmer in the background to res them and kill the last guy that may have run off. That's a really balanced skill there buddy. Oh and forgot, you have Death Nova on every single guy so they kill off the entire team even faster. Thank god you're not balancing this game.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Syno Nym

Let's imagine, tomorrow with the release of Sorrow Furnace, Anet gives us a totally new spell for necromancer. Let's call it... Finger of death (yeah I played ADD too much...). It allows necro to kill everyone in one hit, takes 2 seconds to cast and is elite.

This skill has a lot of counters, such as interruption, Signet of humility, etc...
Do you really think this skill would be balanced ?

To make it even worse: put it on a fast cast mesmer and bring mantra of concentration. GG. 4 of those guys and 4 monks 4tw.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Forboding Angel

THat is a LOT of damage. I honestly don't think that the monks could keep up with the damage dealt if you had 2 people doing this.

Yes please spam flares. It just takes one Orison to negate the damage 4 of those attacks would do. Seriously if my monks would let me die to such crappy damage/build I'd shoot myself

Back on topic, Ether Renewal is just ouright dumb and shadows every other energy management skill out there. You basically go from 15-20 energy to infinte energy for those few odd seconds and can start it again as soon as it's recharged.