Curse

Granamyr · May 26, 2005, 07:53 PM // 19:53

That's exactly how some of the arena maps operate.....whichever team makes the most kills in the allotted time wins. Unfortunately, this wasn't such an instance. I don't think ANet should change the game to avoid the rare instance where one person can avoid getting killed by superior numbers however I like that this thread was started as it has revealed a fair amount of hypocrisy.

Quote:

Next time at least one of your melee types should bring a cripple or speed boosting skill. Do not blame others for entering the arena unprepared.

Yes, in a random arena, make sure all of your melee types bring a diverse skill bar to accomodate every situation. That makes total sense. Furthermore, who is the original poster blaming? I don't see any blame except directed towards this Leet guy and I certainly wouldn't call him unprepared. In keeping with the theme of your post, I would think you would want to blame others for entering the arena unprepared. None of what you wrote makes any sense.

Quote:

You get 3 mo and w/mo u can pretend to be good in any 4 on 4 and never die but if u cant stop runner then your team isnt worth much. I would do the same thing if i was him and had some time on my hands, just to make a point. Bottom line is he was prepared and your team wasnt.

The original poster can correct me if I'm wrong here but I don't see him pretending to be good or trying to promote his team any more than they deserved. They won 8 consecutive matches.....sounds decent to me but who cares, that's not what this is about anyway. Again, it is ludidcrous to believe that in a randomly selected arena, you can field a team that is prepared for every situation and yet I'm seeing hindsight criticism of this guy from people demanding that every character should be universally prepared. Bottom line is you guys are hypocrites for criticizing random arena teams for not doing the impossible.

Navaros, you put yourself in the shoes of one of the members on this team facing Leet and you'd be singing a different tune. The validity of his tactic would be replaced by how precious your time is and that morons such as Leet should be banned from the arena. You've admitted to grouping with such morons that have wasted your time. In the end, what did Leet do except waste everyone's time? He didn't win, he eventually quit. What was the point of his tactic except to ruin the experience for everyone involved? Again, hypocritical of you to support him based on the importance you put on your time.

Demetrious · May 26, 2005, 07:55 PM // 19:55

what about a button that comes up to agree to stalemate - like the skip cinematic button - if both teams click the button - it is over and there is no winner.

So who returns? Tie goes to the defending champ and they return losing the consecutive winning streak..

just a thought.

marlow · May 26, 2005, 07:58 PM // 19:58

Greif, plain and very simple. Anyone who defends running around for 50 minutes as acceptable is either:

a. an idiot.
b. a griefer themselves.

"Bla bla bla, should have there slowdown skills".. its a 4 on 4 pick up game. Very little strategy, its supposed to be a fun quick way to kill each other.

Suggestion to fix: create one high hitpoint npc as a secondary objective. Winning team defends him, New team attacks.

Metro · May 26, 2005, 09:54 PM // 21:54

I'm a man who fight those one as Testament J.

All I wanted to say is there are some need to be defined "Win/Lose" or "Tie".
In this case,if the system called the result in any way, we would agree that at least...even it was lost.

Quote:

Next time at least one of your melee types should bring a cripple or speed boosting skill. Do not blame others for entering the arena unprepared.

Please don't consider as I didn't make any effort for him.
I did have cripple-skill and speed boosting and did I use too.
He used MendAilment,Convert Hexes,Barbed Trap,Troll Unguent,and some skill for running.
It was hard a way to catch up and attack him though I tried.

Kymber · May 26, 2005, 10:07 PM // 22:07

I agree that there is nothing wrong with the current situation, I don't believe that there's any reason to be harsh with the original poster for his frustration and point of view.

That being said, what it amounts to is that your team obviously wasn't using any tactics with any effectiveness, and it surprises me no one's mentioned that yet. And no, "using skills is using tactics," that's not necessarily true.

You should've baited him into a place with no exits, blocking him off so he couldn't run away anywhere. Flushing him into certain directions, using the proper skills at the proper time and using the environment to your advantage should've allowed 4 people to kill 1 person rather quickly. If he managed to evade 4 people for 50 minutes, then that definitely describes a lack of efficient communication and tactical ability on the winning team.

Nothing should be changed.

- Kymber

Shagsbeard · May 26, 2005, 10:29 PM // 22:29

Another vote for "Not A Problem".

It would be a problem if they made it so you couldn't run away. There are many skills/spells in the game that counter the "run away" strategy, and every class has access to some. Bring one along next time and you wont be beat. He brought skills that allowed him to survive, and you didn't bring a counter. Sounds like bitter grapes.

Using your reasoning, I could ask them to put a limit on healing, because I didn't bring any offensive abilities to counter his heals.

con_ritmo · May 27, 2005, 12:57 AM // 00:57

ok, so far members have come up with these possible "stalemate" solutions:

1. after a set time a stalemate is declared and the match ends.

2. a time limit which begins when the last person standing does not have the ability to resurrect.

3. after a set time an npc(s) is introduced to indiscriminately attack the remaining players.

4. after a set time the winner is declared based on "points"...damage inflicted or amount of kills.

5. the introduction of a "stalemate" button.

6. after a set time a secondary objective is introduced to further gameplay... (e.g. one side defends an npc while the other attempts to kill it.)

A good point was raised in that the Arena PvP matches were meant to be a quick way to PvP. Having a match without end goes against the spirit of the Arena PvP. While the easiest solution to code would be a time limit after which a stalemate is declared...

I like the idea of NPC's being introduced to attack the players. They could start out with one or two, and increase to a full-on invasion. The last team standing wins, and if both sides die at the same time a draw is declared. This would be in the spirit of an "Arena"...where historically animals could be introduced to attack the gladiators in the event that things became...BORING.

There are pro's and con's to having a button to either issue a stalemate or to issue in the introduction of NPC's...which can be discussed further.

A stalemate situation can also arise in Tombs...and there should be provisions made in case such a situation occurs...especially in a ladder situation.
Such a solution should perhaps be different than the one for the quick Arena PvP.

To everyone else, understand that stalemates have happened and will continue to happen...please look outside the conditions of this specific situation.

just look at sports, where there are provisions for tie games or matches...

look at strategy games such as chess...where stalemates can be declared or resolved.

even look at video games such as bomberman, where the playing field gets slowly reduced to nil after a set time period.

This is not about sour grapes or frustration...it is about a glaring oversight in the game which should be addressed. To say that a stalemate SHOULD not or WILL not happen (for whatever reason) is naive at best....

In any case, I'd love to hear futher suggestions!

DismalClown · May 27, 2005, 03:16 AM // 03:16

I agree with Navaros. If you couldn’t kill him he didn’t lose.

I personally feel that slowing skills are very important in PvP. They help warriors catch runners, and non warriors run from warriors. I'm surprised that between the W/N and then Me/Mo there was no slow skill.

xamot69 · Sep 12, 2005, 09:29 PM // 21:29

I Agree with con_ritmo. I had to waste 3 hours of my life until this guy decided to quit the game. He could not kill me and I could not kill him. Neither one of us would leave so we played the wait game. ANet definately needs to add some kind of time limit to stop this crap.

Algren Cole · Sep 12, 2005, 09:40 PM // 21:40

there was 4 of you...why didn't you just box him in?

chaos dragoon · Sep 12, 2005, 09:42 PM // 21:42

/not a problem

i actually like runners.i use w/r,let them run for a little the whip out a bow from pve and pin down ftw.or i use knockdowns if im playing ele.almost everyone knows that people run in randoms so they should be prepared.

Algren Cole · Sep 12, 2005, 09:58 PM // 21:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by xamot69

I Agree with con_ritmo. I had to waste 3 hours of my life until this guy decided to quit the game. He could not kill me and I could not kill him. Neither one of us would leave so we played the wait game. ANet definately needs to add some kind of time limit to stop this crap.

why would you waste that much time in the random arena? Don't blame arenanet...you hit a stalemate, random 4v4 means nothing, you should have just left. You need to implement a life.

Man With No Name · Sep 12, 2005, 10:22 PM // 22:22

Healing Monks and Rangers tend to be the worst culprits....

Running from a fight without any means of winning is nothing more than moronic.

Great so you can prolong the fight.....why..??

Your crappy running build has failed to kill anything or do anything and your team has lost, gg

Maybe next time you can bring some skills that might do something instead of 2 running skills and 2 defensive stances. Running with no means of winning shows that your build is trash -- nothing more

You shouldn't chase these idiots about the map -- simply stand together and ignore him/her -- they'll log-off after a few minutes

This garbage play only occurs at sewer level PvP, anyone reputable will simply quit or die with the /dance emote :P

Try Team Arena, GvG or Tombs instead for a higher standard of play

And I'm surprised you couldn't Plague Touch the Pin Down tbh -- that's how I kill most of the ranger runners...

Eet GnomeSmasher · Sep 12, 2005, 10:26 PM // 22:26

There's a fine line between running so you can survive to fight later on....but running and running when you have no chance to win and when your other teammates are dead IS griefing.

There are people who actually go into random arenas with such griefing builds that don't do anything but have a few speed boosts and anti knockdown (balanced stance) or anti snare skills (mend condition to get rid of cripple).

It really irks me to hear people keep spouting nonsense such as "You obviously suck if you cant bring down a runner" If everyone brought a build specifically to bring down runners, it wouldnt be much of PVP then.

I don't expect people to stand still while melee types beat on them...but come on. If you're running just for the heck of it, you shouldnt be playing PVP.

EDIT: And come on, With a name like Leet Runna Zooom, how can you people be defending his actions? This person obviously made his character to run and grief people. He wasted everyone's time. He wasted his own team's time, he wasted the opposing team's time and wasted his own time too. It's sad that people find enjoyment in annoying people.

Mysterial · Sep 12, 2005, 11:27 PM // 23:27

While I think that running is a valid tactic in the majority of situations, IMO this particular situation boils down to two very important questions:

1. Is it fun for the runner? (possibly, but even if it was at the beginning I'm more inclined to think running for 50 minutes is more stubbornness than it is fun)

2. Is it fun for the victims? (no)

The purpose of the game is to have fun. Therefore, if a situation is such that the best that can happen is that one side *might* be having fun, then I wonder whether it's really good for the game for it to be viable.

However, implementing a fix for this is a lot harder than it seems. For example, you can't use "no combat" since the runner could just fire an arrow now and then to keep from ending the match. You can't use "no deaths/resurrections" because two teams could simply be in one of those super-defensive monk battles where nobody dies for a long time before a team finally breaks. Etc Etc etc. It's a very slippery slope drawing the lines here and I can fully appreciate the possibility that Arenanet has not implemented a solution simply because they haven't found a good one.

chris_nin00 · Sep 12, 2005, 11:39 PM // 23:39

I for one hate people who whine... Anet Nerfs everything

*BRING A SNARE
Read the above line...
Now read it one more time.

I don't care what you do just bring a snare and take him down.
As simple as that. If you don't bring a snare its a stalemate no one wins. Since there is no possible way of taking him down he wins. And because you can't beat him he wins/loses. It doesn't matter if he runs. You can't beat him. NO ONE needs a new stupid ass update.
Stinkin whiners crying to their ANET mom.

But I believe that they should also do like they do in boxing, like an above poster said. Count on # of points.

*Read this.

Thanks

crimsonfilms · Sep 12, 2005, 11:44 PM // 23:44

Griefing - no doubt about it.

A. he did not attempt to win
B. There is no skill involved in running for eternity.
C. It penalizes players who are not on broadband connection. The game now depends on your internet connection and not on actual skill.
D. If this is acceptable - then all professions would put things on even kil. Right now - only to professions are the only plague by this problem. I doubt any supporters of this griefing would defend it then.

Con_Ritmo:

BTW - For using smiting group - i think it was Karma. Next time have a little more imagination in your group

Shayul · Sep 12, 2005, 11:57 PM // 23:57

This was random arena. You do realize that the teams are thrown together randomly in random arena, right?

chris_nin00 · Sep 13, 2005, 12:04 AM // 00:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by DismalClown

I agree with Navaros. If you couldn’t kill him he didn’t lose.

I personally feel that slowing skills are very important in PvP. They help warriors catch runners, and non warriors run from warriors. I'm surprised that between the W/N and then Me/Mo there was no slow skill.

Preach on brutha

I really believe EVERYONE should have a slowing skill. Settle down everyone.

Bingley Joe · Sep 13, 2005, 12:20 AM // 00:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by Navaros

@original poster: if you didn't kill all the opposing team members, then you did not win the match. nor should you expect the opposing team member to commit suicide to gratify you

if your team can't kill him, it's your own problem. whether or not he had resurrect on him and whether or not he could have killed all your team members is a moot point

if i was Leet, i would have stayed in the game forever. it is not griefing and there is nothing wrong with what he did. i would say you were unfairly ruining his gameplay experience by insisting that he commit suicide when there is no legitimate reason why he should have

the devs do not need to change a thing in regards to this issue.

Yeah, I tend to agree.

I mean, it was your 32 skills vs. his 8. Looks to me like he had what it took to stay alive longer than anyone on his team and avoid being killed by anyone on yours.. hardly a stalemate, since the odds are so very overwhelming that at least one out of your 32 skills was going to be a snare

As it stands, had everyone on your team dropped except for one, Leet still would have had the upper hand! So if any number between one and eight of you can't kill him, I don't think he should be penalized, nor does it really seem fair that you'd receive the same accolades as him..

A stalemate in this game would be more like if everyone on both teams was still alive because no one could be killed off on either side (which I'm having a hard time imagining).

I think the 8 of you should have been gentlemen and simply accepted a loss.. but why not skip that and just pack a snare next time instead?