Curse

jesh · Aug 24, 2005, 05:28 PM // 17:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by GraFFix

Ill probably get flamed but its a game, A-net has forced us to farm and now when something really works the first thing people want to do it kill it.

Very nice post, you're one of the few people that gets the actual issue here. Anet made fissure armor only obtainable through grind. After you beat the game and cap all the skills... what is there left to do but grind? Here's my theory.

The devs initially wanted to farming/grind because it shouldn't be necessary. I still think it shouldn't be necessary. But then they released the game with little/no replayable content. So now they're stuck between a rock and a hard place. Let people farm, because it's the only reason they play, or try to keep things how they wanted in the first place.

If Anet just nerfs that one skill, or that one area, it'll be a sad day. They could put an end to this by changing the drops system. Everyone would be so much happier. I doubt all of you who made 105 monks would have done so if you could have gotten just as much ecto with your guildies coming a long, and maybe a random person. If the rewards were just as great for a party, it would be so much better. Enchant removal is stupid. Nerfing skills is stupid. I wonder when Anet will realize this.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mhydrian

Well hey since everyone hates nerfs, lets make this game entirely ridiculous. Spread the love...EVERYONE can use enchants to make themself essentially invulnerable and solo whereever the hell they want!!!! YEAH MAN WOO HOO FREE GOLD...Uberness for all!!!

They could actually do this, and a lot more people could have fun, if Anet changed the rewards system. I know a lot of people have fun soloing, and I don't see why Anet should change this. Fix the root of the problem, Anet!

Sekkira · Aug 24, 2005, 05:40 PM // 17:40

Agreed Jesh. I probably would solo a BIT though cause for a bit, it's pretty cool taking on all those monsters with one dude. But I would MUCH prefer heading out with a group if I got just as much as I did solo. People to talk to, more ecto overall because we'd go further, etc. Doesn't need to be nerfed. Things need to be adjusted.

jesh · Aug 24, 2005, 05:48 PM // 17:48

Oops. I forgot to stay on topic. I won't quit cause I never made a 105 monk. But I'll be dam happy to finally get my sup protection for my protector. I hate rune campers.

90º to Reality · Aug 24, 2005, 05:49 PM // 17:49

Of course I would continue to play!

Now granted this is speculation but remember back around May when it was pointed out that a monk could solo the Riverside providence mission? ANet saw this as wrong (it is a COoperative mission). How did they fix it? did they nerf the build itself? NO! Did they change any skills? NO! Instead they changed the enemies you ran into. They through in a monk/mesmer/necro in with each set of zealots. Since zealots have a higher AC they would out live the mo/me/n and then use their tactics to pound you even harder.

Algren Cole · Aug 24, 2005, 06:01 PM // 18:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sekkira

Agreed Jesh. I probably would solo a BIT though cause for a bit, it's pretty cool taking on all those monsters with one dude. But I would MUCH prefer heading out with a group if I got just as much as I did solo. People to talk to, more ecto overall because we'd go further, etc. Doesn't need to be nerfed. Things need to be adjusted.

More people = more stupidity...more immature morons drawing dicks on the map....more people to aggro mobs that didn't need to be aggro'd....more people making dick and fart jokes....more people asking the female ele if they want to cyber or if they'll take their clothes off for money...more people = more headaches...I'd rather solo.

AeroLion · Aug 24, 2005, 06:07 PM // 18:07

I'll continue to play but I sure won't be going to the UW anymore at all. What's so hard to understand about not taking the quests until you clear out some mobs? What's so hard to understand about not taking all three quests from the first reaper at the same time?

I really think a lot people believe they're *supposed* to die down there.

Yamat · Aug 24, 2005, 06:14 PM // 18:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by LathalDraugr

Droknar running. 5 people at 2k a head for 5 people for a 20-25min run say 30mins total for forming a group etc. Thats 20k an hour as opposed to 14k an hour for an UW run...

I agree, I wasn't stating it's the best way to farm, just that one poster had made the statement that it was not a good way to earn gold, to which I disagree. The amount of L20 players I see that can barely afford an expert salvage kit is beyond me... so 5 plat an hour is astonishing to them.

However, the posts from GraFFix and jesh are on target re: grind/farming. More people getting more characters to L20 want their Fissure armor which increases the demand on ecto/shards. Where there is high demand, a supplier will step in, even if that means creating a solo monk and farming the hell out of somewhere... simple market dynamics.

I will keep my monk, and keep playing, regardless. I farm when there's none of my friends playing...

But hey, look on the bright side... if farming UW gets nerfed, there'll be all those monks available for PUGs!

(I know, there are other places they can go, but who knows?)

Nikita Firestorm · Aug 24, 2005, 06:45 PM // 18:45

Quote:

Guild Wars takes the best elements of today's massively multiplayer online games and combines them with a new mission-based design that eliminates some of the more tedious aspects of those games.

But Anet forgot to remove farming, because farming for UW armour is the only thing left to do when you don't do PvP?
Anet created the problem, by adding some cheap way to keep customers playing, instead of at least completing the roleplay content decently.

And now to the point:

Of course it's very good to remove the solo farming, because after all it IS a multiplayer game, and I would not care if those soloers are going to leave.

I hope they keep adjusting the game until farming in a group is the only option. (Going with henchmen is ok too of course, they should just be seen as intermediate players who are always available.)

And people who say "the ecto prices will go up/down" are missing the point. That's about balancing the droprates, and about balancing the whole economy.

It's about either being able to play the PvE after-engame totally solo or not.

Ishamael Sedai · Aug 24, 2005, 06:55 PM // 18:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by LifeInfusion

Soloing with a build that isn't made by you (unless you were the only one using) is shameful. If the human race followed no innovation, we would not be in space.

This is horrible logic. Innovation does not mean you do not build upon what others have left behind. Innovation does not mean that some things remain constant. I haven't followed the solo UW monk builds too closely, but I have noticed that people have gotten more efficient with their builds. That is innovation. Humans have gotten to space through innovation, but they have also gotten there partially on the discoveries of previous generations.

Dazzler · Aug 24, 2005, 08:20 PM // 20:20

LifeInfusion, did you design those clothes you are wearing? What about that computer? No? Shameful.

Vorlin · Aug 25, 2005, 12:02 AM // 00:02

I haven't read this thread up to this point (though I'm pretty familiar with the issue, it's not exactly new), but let me add this in case an ANet team member is reading:

**********

Nerfing at this stage of the game should be a last resort. The EverQuest team (and many other multiplayer designers over the years) have learned the hard way that nerfing alienates your playerbase.

**********

My definition of 'last resort' would be that the nerf had to be implemented for the game to progress forward. It can be argued that NR needs to be nerfed for exactly this reason in PvP (and I'd agree with that, for what it's worth, but that's another topic). But noone that I've ever heard on these forums has presented anywhere close to evidence indicating that the 105/55 monk builds are so destructive to the game that they should be eliminated (and this isn't really a build you can tone down, it's too extreme, it either works as-is or the low hitpoints hose you). In PvP they appear to be a non-issue, and in PvE every zone is instanced so who cares?

The 105/55 monks simply aren't that big a deal when it comes for any -other- person's enjoyment of Gwars PvP/PvE. I understand people's objections to the 105/55 build, but people with objections need to ask themselves the following question: "Would you want ANet to nerf one of -your- characters because someone else objected to it?". I think the answer would be a resounding 'No'.

coleslawdressin · Aug 25, 2005, 12:15 AM // 00:15

Well said Vorlin!

Video game designers constantly ask themselves, "what will adding or deleting this feature add to the overall design?" Prot bond is only "needed" for the UW. People will always farm, hoard, spam, scam, etc. IMO the unhappy to happy ratio if they really really nerfed UW soloing would be more than 100:1

It will absolutely alienate a lot of people if they did it.. We just need improvements to group drops (gold piles/rare items) and more variety in things to do with our gold... not nerf the success of some because others can't/don't want to/are too lazy to

Elistan Theocrat · Aug 25, 2005, 12:56 AM // 00:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by coleslawdressin

IMO the unhappy to happy ratio if they really really nerfed UW soloing would be more than 100:1

So, we'll have some unhappy farmers who will have to farm elsewhere like everyone else does. Oh well.

Quote:

Originally Posted by coleslawdressin

It will absolutely alienate a lot of people if they did it.. We just need improvements to group drops (gold piles/rare items) and more variety in things to do with our gold... not nerf the success of some because others can't/don't want to/are too lazy to

I dont know where you get this idea that a lot of people will be alienated when prot bond will get fixed. from reading this thread it seems like most will not let it be the end of thier worlds as you would seem to be suggesting here. The VAST majority stated they'd keep playing.

In once sense youre right, they need to increase the incentive to form groups. on the other hand the fixing of prot bond wont have anything to do with one persons success over someone who cant, (2 min on the internet and what, 3 days playing a monk is all it takes) wont, (nothing wrong with not abusing a skill) or too lazy (lol, as if its hard work) who doesnt. It will be because the devs never intended any class to solo in the UW. Period.

saphir · Aug 25, 2005, 02:51 AM // 02:51

so if everyone is screaming "nerf the 105 monk" then what's next...?

"nerf the UW e/mo solo farmer"?

http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/s...ad.php?t=39716
http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/s...ad.php?t=45320

shakbaros · Aug 25, 2005, 02:58 AM // 02:58

Nothing should be nerfed as long as it effect PVP fights..
That 105 monk thing is not effecting pvp so why nerf it ..
I say no nerf if they nerf it it wont effect my pvp so why bother...

Nerf only that effect pvp, cause this game is all about pvp, and farming is just someone hobby, if they like to farm let it be... if they want pvp let it be..
ya no nerf.. nerf spirits group yayayaa..

Xeavor · Aug 25, 2005, 03:21 AM // 03:21

Ok, I've read 90% of all the posts on this thread. So, after much debate in my head I think I'll give my opinion. I've played Guild Wars since the beta days, and guess what I've found out, this game is awsome. Now, I've agreed for the most part with all the updates and fixes the devs have done to make this game "better" up to recently. I've played through my 4 lvl 20's, experimented with limitless amounts of combos, concerning the builds avalible. This super monk build is by far one of the best thought out builds I've seen. The one mistake in the build is that, it was made "public". Ok, so now the build is public, and it's becoming really popular with farming in certain areas............where's the problem?

I've put countless hours into this game, so no one here has the right to tell me that this game wasn't meant to be played a certain way. I've took part in more groups than I'd like to admit, and to be honest, sometimes I like to go and solo farm. Is that a sin? I take my monk and heal and par take in public affairs, and help the group stay alive. Gotta love contantly looking at the health meters. I payed for this game just like the rest of you, pro or anti solo monk farming, and after everything is said and done in this game, all you have left is going out and killing a bunch of stuff and seeing what you get as drops. This game has been very successful(lucky) in the being hacked area. Whats the point of that statement? Well, I'm a cheater/hacker in most games I play, whatever it may be, is that lame to you?

Sure it is to most of you, most games out there have a hard time keeping my attention, so I look for new ways to stay in the game, which usually leads to hacks or cheats or something. Guild Wars for whatever reason is completely different in my mind. I have made it a point to express my anti-cheating opinion in hacking forums and chats. Mainly because this game to me is a revolution of mmrpg genre. I have concerns that if they nerf this "legit" build, just because of public disagreements, that the game will sooner than later be more ...hack populated. Please no one say this game is hack proof either, because we all have seen that claimed by devs in many games of many genre's and look how wrong they were. My belief is that this game is enjoyed by hacks/cheaters/legits alike, its something different.

Not dependent on lvl to be mighty, you can just manipulate a few skills in certain ways and own people. No need to hack it, its sorta like your hacking without all the hexing and packet editing. So, now a possible trend of killing good builds begins, I just hope that the devs don't find themselves in a battle that SO MANY others have faught and lost with hackers. Because ultimately, no matter how smart you guys are making the game, somebody out there is one step ahead. I don't want to see this game killed by fellow cheaters and hackers, so just please be careful how you repair this issue that lame people have brought up.

SOT · Aug 25, 2005, 03:35 AM // 03:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by Xeavor

Ok, I've read 90% of all the posts on this thread. So, after much debate in my head I think I'll give my opinion. I've played Guild Wars since the beta days, and guess what I've found out, this game is awsome. Now, I've agreed for the most part with all the updates and fixes the devs have done to make this game "better" up to recently. I've played through my 4 lvl 20's, experimented with limitless amounts of combos, concerning the builds avalible. This super monk build is by far one of the best thought out builds I've seen. The one mistake in the build is that, it was made "public". Ok, so now the build is public, and it's becoming really popular with farming in certain areas............where's the problem?

I've put countless hours into this game, so no one here has the right to tell me that this game wasn't meant to be played a certain way. I've took part in more groups than I'd like to admit, and to be honest, sometimes I like to go and solo farm. Is that a sin? I take my monk and heal and par take in public affairs, and help the group stay alive. Gotta love contantly looking at the health meters. I payed for this game just like the rest of you, pro or anti solo monk farming, and after everything is said and done in this game, all you have left is going out and killing a bunch of stuff and seeing what you get as drops. This game has been very successful(lucky) in the being hacked area. Whats the point of that statement? Well, I'm a cheater/hacker in most games I play, whatever it may be, is that lame to you?

Sure it is to most of you, most games out there have a hard time keeping my attention, so I look for new ways to stay in the game, which usually leads to hacks or cheats or something. Guild Wars for whatever reason is completely different in my mind. I have made it a point to express my anti-cheating opinion in hacking forums and chats. Mainly because this game to me is a revolution of mmrpg genre. I have concerns that if they nerf this "legit" build, just because of public disagreements, that the game will sooner than later be more ...hack populated. Please no one say this game is hack proof either, because we all have seen that claimed by devs in many games of many genre's and look how wrong they were. My belief is that this game is enjoyed by hacks/cheaters/legits alike, its something different.

Not dependent on lvl to be mighty, you can just manipulate a few skills in certain ways and own people. No need to hack it, its sorta like your hacking without all the hexing and packet editing. So, now a possible trend of killing good builds begins, I just hope that the devs don't find themselves in a battle that SO MANY others have faught and lost with hackers. Because ultimately, no matter how smart you guys are making the game, somebody out there is one step ahead. I don't want to see this game killed by fellow cheaters and hackers, so just please be careful how you repair this issue that lame people have brought up.

Well said

Quote:

Originally Posted by EVERYONE

NERF!

The term nerf has been said approximately 957 billion times in this thread. The term nerf has not happened yet in regards to the thread topic. If said nerf indeed takes place, then this thread will be repeated, carbon copied, and faxed to every major airport within 250 miles of the server that is hosting this forum thread, in the hopes that all 19 people who dislike something they have no control over will get what they want.

In other words. Nerf this thread.

Desthe · Aug 25, 2005, 04:03 AM // 04:03

Yes, I will continue to play. Why wouldn't you? Also, I'm certain they don't enjoy having one of the hardest areas in the game that they created be made a joke by a single character. Better take advantage while you can, it's not going to last.

kbealow · Aug 25, 2005, 04:45 AM // 04:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hookecho

wow...I am so glad you have appointed yourself High Preistess of Gameing. Gee...I think Eles are Un-balenced because of their super high energy stores.....Lets Nerf them so they are not SO powerful. Rangers get way too man interupts.....Lets nerf them as well. Lets just nerf everything so that everyone just plays W/M's shall we? We all know they are un-powerful and all that.

You play the GAME your way....I'll play mine the way I see fit. I dont give 2 hoots how you play, why should you give a crap how I play?

And for your info, because you are woefully un-informed, a 105 build can solo 3 places....thats it. The starting room, the smite area and the village. Thats all. So it's not "Soloing the UW"...its soloing a small part of it.

You want to know why I made a solo monk for the UW?....not for untold riches...not for Ecto....I made it for skill points. Thats it....nothing more...nothing less. The items I get down there (90% of which are junk.....non max whites and blues) I leave on the floor or if I keep something....it goes to a guildie. In over 10 weeks of soloing down there.....3 ectos....thats all.

So miss high and mighty.....how exactly does that in anyway effect your game or your enjoyment of it?

I agree with Hookecho on this one....after all we all did pay 50$ for this game and if some want to solo in some areas then who am I to disagree on how they play their characters...i don't have a monk at all so...if they want to use a solo build then let them...for all the people out there that doesn't like it...then just don't bother with it...it's like seeing a show on TV if you like it keep watching it...if you don't then simply turn the channel...don't ruinin it for everyone else that likes the build...the thing is if you like your characters and love playing them...then play your characters...who cares what everyone else is doing...as long as you like your characters and love playing the game...that's all that matters.

Tharizdun · Aug 25, 2005, 06:26 AM // 06:26

If usin a solo monk in the uw is an exploit so is usin any team build under 8 ppl
if they nerf this they need to nerf the 3-4 man trap teams doin uw and fow
ranger traps are way to powerful in my opinion anywayz so they should be nerfed also lol and they need to nerf all other builds to if they can solo not just the monk build they just need to nerf everything and anything that ppl bitch and complain about till only the bitchers and complainers are left then they wont have nothin to bitch and complain about except themselves then anet needs to nerf the hell out of them! lol