Guild Wars Forums - GW Guru
 
Forums Guild Wiki PvX Wiki
 

Go Back   Guild Wars Forums - GW Guru > The Inner Circle > The Riverside Inn
Reload this Page The Myth of the 'Two-Monks'
Register FAQ Calendar Mark Forums Read

Notices

Reply
Page 3 of 4 < 12 3 4 >
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old Jul 29, 2005, 06:57 PM // 18:57   #41
Forge Runner
 
Shadowfox1125's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: PST
Profession: W/
Advertisement

Disable Ads
Default
Quote:
Originally Posted by Age
I can't find it in the thread if you or others know plase let me and someone else is looking for it as well.Thanks.
Here you go if you still need it:

http://members.skill-club.com/TriX/G...tors_table.htm

2 Average Monks are fine, but 1 exceptional one is great.
Shadowfox1125 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Jul 29, 2005, 08:44 PM // 20:44   #42
Age
Hall Hero
 
Age's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: California Canada/BC
Guild: STG Administrator
Profession: Mo/
Default
Thanks for the info and I had a feeling it would be in Desert someplace I loath.How do you get to the Dunes of Despair from what mission as tried walking there from Augary Rock and betwen the Hydras,Stone Elementals and the wurm I couldn't get there and I neeed to get to heros audience.Thanks
Age is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Jul 29, 2005, 08:47 PM // 20:47   #43
Academy Page
 
Join Date: May 2005
Default
"Random buttheads" are there so you can appreciate the people on your friends list more.
This is an oft ignored social benefit of the Guildwars grouping system
Bazooka is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Jul 29, 2005, 09:34 PM // 21:34   #44
Ascalonian Squire
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Guild: Shimmering Blade
Profession: E/Me
Default
Quote:
Originally Posted by Warskull
The incompetent party build is very popular for a reason though, it is extremely easy to do. 3-4 W/Mos self heal and output poor damage, 2-3 fire eles drop high damage nukes, 1-2 monks try to heal. You have your roles and they are very clearly defined. Tank, nuke, or heal, even a complete moron can't get confused. Ask most players what a necro does and they will be at a loss. Ask them what a mesmer, ranger, or necro should do and they don't have a clue. Heck, ask them what a water ele is good for and they can't give you an answer. They simply can't see beyond the raw numbers. Additionally most players prefer an easy to do build with less potential. That mesmer can be a wrecking machine in the right hands, but most players don't know how to do it themselves so they can't imagine it happening when someone else plays the class.
The truth behind this makes me sad... especially since I have to put up with a lot of this as an elementalist. Here's an example of finding a group in Tombs:

Me: E/Me Pyro/Geo nuker LFG!!!

10 minutes of spamming later... I get picked up into a group. Then...

Me: Hey guys
Leader: u an air elementalist?
Me: ...
Me: Hold on... I'll change my build.

I think the lack of originality stems from how easy it is for one build to destroy anything you put together.

Oh and about the OP, try facing a spike group in Tombs with only one monk... Not pretty .
Antonio Cappello is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Jul 30, 2005, 07:46 PM // 19:46   #45
Academy Page
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Profession: W/Mo
Default
One monk is FoW is okay, but two is better in my opinion.

I play a monk as well, and while I've been the only monk in an FoW group and kept them alive, I still prefer another helping me. If the second monk choose his skills correctly, we're much stronger. A protection monk is very nice as well, sometimes they make great second monks.

As for those with necros using blood ritual. It's very nice, but I've noticed that alot of necros don't choose to use it.
Anomaly is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Oct 21, 2005, 05:32 PM // 17:32   #46
Ascalonian Squire
 
Pik uR BuM's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: aussieland
Default
In this case of one monk is better then two... and so forth...
There is no right or wrong... its how you play the game.

One monk may have its advantages but then so what? having two monks have its own advantages. I wouldnt need to explain what they are as i'd be repeating whats already being said.
Pik uR BuM is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Oct 21, 2005, 05:41 PM // 17:41   #47
Krytan Explorer
 
Barinthus's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: California
Guild: (TRUE)
Profession: R/Me
Default
I definitely agree with newfangle here. Heck, monks are not neccessary at all if you know what you are doing.

To me monks are like crutches, learn to live without them or end up being dependent on them forever.

I pity those fools.
Barinthus is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Oct 21, 2005, 05:51 PM // 17:51   #48
Lion's Arch Merchant
 
kawaii_bat's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Canada, Gatineau
Guild: None
Profession: Mo/R
Default
Quote:
Originally Posted by noblepaladin
Two monks are definitely not needed. Actually, after I started playing a Mesmer, I discovered that interrupting and disabling enemies are sometimes much more effective than healing. If they cannot attack you, then you don't need healing.
OMG this is soooo true!

[U]Ditch the 2nd healer and get a mesmer that interupts and energy denies!

Less damage being dealt to you = less damage needed to be healed

Ditch the 2nd healer and get a Necromancer that uses wells and horrors

well spread health regen and multiple foe targets=less energy use

Ditch the 2nd healer and get a Ranger Trapper

More damage imput and traps = faster creatures die less they deal dmg

You'll have an easier life I assure you. Thirsty river is absolutely dooable with 1 monk!
Last edited by kawaii_bat; Oct 21, 2005 at 05:54 PM // 17:54..
kawaii_bat is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Oct 21, 2005, 06:07 PM // 18:07   #49
Wilds Pathfinder
 
Sanji's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Profession: Mo/
Default
I did Thirsty River as the only Healer with two Guildies and 3 random PuG people. The PuGers were paranoid but we did the mission without complications.

While there is something to be said about the two monk safety net, if you need more than that you should seriously consider rebuilding your group from the ground up. Half the time Lina works just fine for the second Monk role, anyhow.
Sanji is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Oct 21, 2005, 06:22 PM // 18:22   #50
Jungle Guide
 
Snowman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Wales, UK
Guild: Devils Scorpions
Profession: W/E
Default
wtf?? of course you can do it with only one monk...and its perfectly conceivable to have NO monks.. its not about the quantity its about preparation.

if you organise a team well enough, hell.. you can do anything you dam well want to...

as has been said before people take a second monk for great many reasons, and you are VERY wrong to call people noobs who take two... taking two is called preparation, wisdom, forsight, experience, the word to describe you is presumptious.

Your say your such a great monk.. and maybe you are, but who is to say you wont disconnect, or go afk.... OR QUIT!.. there is nothing above your head which makes you stand out amongs anyone else, how do I know your good or not?.. how does anyone???? THEY DONT!

Monks are the most arrogant people I have met in Guildwars, I always take two simply because they are so pig headed and full of themselves that they are more likley to quit the team than any of the n00bs are!

what your basically saying is that you are so great, so much better at monking than anyone else you cant possibly conceive a situation where a second is nessasary... thus providing more evidence that monks are more likley to be players who are indeed arrogant selfish and so bloated with their own ego that they feel they must advertise it to the world.

More effective with only one monk?... LOL you make it LESS efficient because if you go AFK then the whole team is screwed.... and that ONE monk will hold you all to randsom.

its almost like saying.... oh dont bother taking the spare tyre on this 7 hour road trip, it will only slow us down.. and we will be more efficient on the fuel!

stop being so arrogant and pig headed and maybe people can afford the risk of taking only one.
Snowman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Oct 21, 2005, 06:30 PM // 18:30   #51
Lion's Arch Merchant
 
Hanuman li Tosh's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: garden of the gods, CO
Guild: Over Powered
Profession: N/
Default
Quote:
Originally Posted by newfangle
Hello guild warriors

I've played 4 characters through the grind. Of all, I love my monk the most. I am probably best with my monk. I enjoy being the group healer. I'd consider myself to be a good group-healer.

The following commentary is primarily directed at the 12-year-olds that constitute the predominant segment of GW players. I don't mind healing the W/Mo with mending because I love playing my monk (did I mention that already?). Anyways, here's my beef. An overwhelming majority of players seem to believe that having 2 monks is essential in order to play the later missions and fiss/uw. Well I say bollucks!

My build is fairly good. I use ascetic armor with the collector healing ankh, which gives me an energy of 65 (also level 16 healing/13 divine). Combined with word of healing, even when my party is being ganked by fissure mobs, I still find it is more than managable to keep everyone alive and fighting. So what's with the 2-monk need? Heck, the above example doesn't even take into account secondary monks.

I will even go as far as saying that having the second monk actually reduces the effectiveness of a party. Having a blood necro with well of power, or a minionater, or a shutdown mesmer, is infinitely more beneficial than having a second healer. So to all those noobs that play GW (that MUST have 4 W/mo, 2 E/mo, and 2 Monks on every team), stop being dumbarses! The game is NOT hard. Drop that second monk! Get that necro or mesmer or ranger that everyone ignores! You'll be much more successful!

Peace.

Be more friendly in your future posts or they will just be deleted.
you dont need monks at all for pve. you do need 2-3 monks for pvp most of the time. i think maybe thats where the misconception comes from.
Hanuman li Tosh is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Oct 21, 2005, 07:11 PM // 19:11   #52
Krytan Explorer
 
Teufel Eldritch's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Shadar Logoth
Guild: The Legendary Majestic 12
Profession: N/
Default
The better a team is the less Monks it needs.
Teufel Eldritch is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Oct 21, 2005, 07:23 PM // 19:23   #53
Krytan Explorer
 
Hot Dead's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Default
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mitsu Bishi
Well, in a party of eight, I can at least understand why they want it. But a few days ago when I was helping a guildmate at Elona Reach, the group meant we should get another healer. Argh, I'm healing a full henchmen party well enough to succeed there, why should we need another healer in a party of 6 human players who are way better in dishing out damage? Especially with 6 members another monk greatly reduces your damage potential and therefore makes the second monk a bit more useful (less damage = more damage received = more healing needed ).
more damage=less damage recieved=dont need more healing
Thats why 1 monk is enough (unless the other is a smiter).
Hot Dead is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Oct 21, 2005, 07:25 PM // 19:25   #54
Lion's Arch Merchant
 
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: England , Wiltshire
Guild: [mB] Mental Block
Profession: E/
Default
lol, go to eng 1 ToA, you on your uber build im leet best healer monk build..

go to FoW and see how far you get....
Calnaion Blackhawk is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Oct 21, 2005, 07:38 PM // 19:38   #55
Lion's Arch Merchant
 
kawaii_bat's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Canada, Gatineau
Guild: None
Profession: Mo/R
Default
Quote:
Originally Posted by Snowman
wtf?? of course you can do it with only one monk...and its perfectly conceivable to have NO monks.. its not about the quantity its about preparation.

if you organise a team well enough, hell.. you can do anything you dam well want to....
I am happy you agreed on this point.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Snowman
as has been said before people take a second monk for great many reasons, and you are VERY wrong to call people noobs who take two... taking two is called preparation, wisdom, forsight, experience, the word to describe you is presumptious..
We said no such thing on the matter of taking two monks as being cowardly. We simply suggest that 2 monks is not necessary at all times and we are attempting to bannish this widely missunderstood notion.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Snowman
Your say your such a great monk.. and maybe you are, but who is to say you wont disconnect, or go afk.... OR QUIT!.. there is nothing above your head which makes you stand out amongs anyone else, how do I know your good or not?.. how does anyone???? THEY DONT!.
There are jerks out there that do that.
Yet there are those that stick 15 minutes after they are dead and still haven't been raised.
You can't generalize.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Snowman
Monks are the most arrogant people I have met in Guildwars, I always take two simply because they are so pig headed and full of themselves that they are more likley to quit the team than any of the n00bs are! .
Not all monks are arrogant. I can see why many of them become so. Because they have to deal with others who treat them automatically as jerks.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Snowman
what your basically saying is that you are so great, so much better at monking than anyone else you cant possibly conceive a situation where a second is nessasary... thus providing more evidence that monks are more likley to be players who are indeed arrogant selfish and so bloated with their own ego that they feel they must advertise it to the world..
What we are basically saying is that if monk-players learned how to better manage their energy and/or resources they would theoretically be capable of supporting a group of 6-8 depending on their abilities and expertise alone.

Before I tried myself as the only monk in a group of 6 I was *always* asking the group to bring a 2nd because I was not sure that I could do it alone.

After having surviving the Thirsty mission with ease as the only healer. I would like others to be able to realize this as well.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Snowman
More effective with only one monk?... LOL you make it LESS efficient because if you go AFK then the whole team is screwed.... and that ONE monk will hold you all to randsom.
its almost like saying.... oh dont bother taking the spare tyre on this 7 hour road trip, it will only slow us down.. and we will be more efficient on the fuel!
stop being so arrogant and pig headed and maybe people can afford the risk of taking only one.
There are certain pros and cons.
The one where you mention that the only monk leaving is the biggest problem.
But there is also a viable outcome to having one monk.

I will use the Thirsty River mission again as an example
(Because it was the one which I studied the most)
The team was able to completly pwn the mission. We never had to retreate, we never failed to beat a priest under 2:00 and we even completed the bonus.
*This* was also the first time 3 of the party members in the party had actually done this mission and they thought it was easy as pie!

Why?

Because by *not* taking a second monk they where dealing much more DPS (Damage per second) as a party than if they had had one!
---------------------------------------------------------------Lastly don't take such an offenced tone and accusing every monk out there to be selfish, pigheaded arrogant [email protected] because that is not reallistic and you paint yourself as being cynical. <=That's a bad trait by the way

Cynisism:
Believing or showing the belief that people are motivated chiefly by base or selfish concerns; skeptical of the motives of others.
Last edited by kawaii_bat; Oct 21, 2005 at 07:42 PM // 19:42..
kawaii_bat is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Oct 21, 2005, 07:41 PM // 19:41   #56
Wilds Pathfinder
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Default
Quote:
The better a team is the less Monks it needs.
Not true at all. That is oversimplification and ignores the very concept of GW's party and skill slot limitation - its all about skills and builds.



Able to self heal is a good 'style' but does have a down side. Its far from perfect.

For example, there are warrior builds that can execute 3-5 skills in order to output tremendous amount of damage. Then you need to consider to bring res sig, hex removal, condition removal, then healing. If you are just going to bring Orison Healing or Healing Breeze - you are wasting your energy and the monk's because you will not be healign yourself fast enough especially if you are hexed and target of melee attacks.

If you bring 3-4 attack skills then you are pretty sufficient. This is the random arena build as I call it. Not great damage output nor great healing capabilities. Missions tend to go slower because you need to move slower (limited aggro capabilities).

There is also a misconception that tanks are the main source of damage in PvE. Not always true. They are their to absorb damage mainly AWAY from the casters - like a nuker and mes.

What about if you want to run 2 blood necros?

There are dozens of reasons to run 2 monks. As there are reasonsto run 1 monk.

I rather run 2 monks and let the other specialize in doing what they do best.

Not to mention if you run out of energy in the middle of the battle - it would suck that the E/Mo would need to cast breeze on team instead of bringing in meteor.


Do you have to run 2 monks? No.
Are there enough capable monks and non monk players to run one monk?
You tell me.


(BTW - there are so many people who complain about PUGs in this forum, that I wonder if you guys end up complaining about each other ? )
crimsonfilms is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Oct 21, 2005, 08:08 PM // 20:08   #57
Lion's Arch Merchant
 
kawaii_bat's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Canada, Gatineau
Guild: None
Profession: Mo/R
Talking
You don't ****need**** two monks in a group.

It's easier to heal in the long run with 2 and it also means you have better chances to survive if one of them dies.

But it doesn't mean it's better in *any* way to a group that has only 1.

Who's players: Protect the monk
(as they should but do not )
Who's players: Bring some form of self-healing/evasive skills
(Which they do not)
Who's players: Know when they are taking *way* to much damage too fast.
(Move AWAY from melee, spellcasters! [email protected]! N/W don't tank! Plz!)
Who's monk: manages energy
(as they do not because of 2nd monk laziness)
Who's monk: pays attention to his surroundings
(which they don't do)
-----------------
I'm a Mo/R Healer/Trapper who brings Storm chaser and Barbed traps. Bringing the means of survival for yourself and thus the means of your party's survival is never a bad idea
A few traps here and there when you're not particularly needed is a sound thing to do too
Last edited by kawaii_bat; Oct 21, 2005 at 08:10 PM // 20:10..
kawaii_bat is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Oct 21, 2005, 08:30 PM // 20:30   #58
Krytan Explorer
 
Teufel Eldritch's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Shadar Logoth
Guild: The Legendary Majestic 12
Profession: N/
Default
Quote:
Originally Posted by crimsonfilms
Not true at all.
In my expierence it is very much true. It should also be noted that I used the word "need" in place of the word "want." A great team does not need two Monks. It may want two Monks but it certainly doesn't need two Monks.

This also shows something about PUGs. Most ppl do not trust PUGs, with good reason I may add, to be competent. This is why groups will take more than one Monk(a lot of the time but not all)...because they don't know the abilities, skill levels, teamplay ability of other random strangers in thier group. If PUGs could magically somehow know all that before they created their group I doubt many PUGs would still be taking two Monks. Having two Monks(can even be agrued one Monk) is nothing more than insurance against the idiocy, lack of expierence, or whatever your group might display.
Teufel Eldritch is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Oct 22, 2005, 01:51 AM // 01:51   #59
Pre-Searing Cadet
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Guild: Modified Soul Society [SOUL]
Default
The truth is that not all monks are that good, just as not every player of a certain profession is the best ever. There are monks with no energy management, BIP necros that sac themselves to death, warriors that think tactics is only used for healing signet (and healing signet + frenzy is the best heal combo ever), and elementalists that think they are invincible. Some rangers cannot pull one or two monsters from a mob, and deposite them on the tanks, but perfer to pull two or three mobs and deposite them on the mesmers.
The truth is, having 2 monks (or three) in an 8 person party in the high level areas (fow, uw, gf/sf, rof) makes the party more forgiving on mistakes. In FOW, if you have on monk, it may not be hard to watch over 7 people, but if they make a mistake (like aggro a little too much), it is more likely to mean dp and another 1K entrance fee than if you had 2 monks.
sunsmoon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Oct 22, 2005, 02:02 AM // 02:02   #60
Ascalonian Squire
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Default
I think that the majority of players over-estimate the toughness of the pve content.
The main reason a team would lose in a mission in the later stages is due to bad players, not because of a bad combination of builds in the team.
Seriously, players who don't invite mesmers, rangers, and necros in the pve content coz it they think they are useless need a serious check-up.... pve is NOT hard.
alwo is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply
Page 3 of 4 < 12 3 4 >

Share This Forum!  
 
 
           

« Previous Thread | Next Thread »
Thread Tools
Display Modes
Linear Mode Linear Mode

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts
BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Myth Buster [MERGED] krammit The Riverside Inn 30 Sep 26, 2005 08:08 AM // 08:08
TadaceAce The Riverside Inn 85 Sep 22, 2005 05:32 PM // 17:32
end Game hack? Fissure of Woe a Myth? SellerDeSeller The Riverside Inn 36 Jun 27, 2005 06:50 PM // 18:50
The Dragons Myth Xephania Questions & Answers 4 Feb 24, 2005 10:16 PM // 22:16


All times are GMT. The time now is 08:50 PM // 20:50.

Contact Us - Guild Wars Guru - Archive - Privacy Statement - Top

Powered by: vBulletin
Copyright ©2000 - 2016, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
jQuery(document).ready(checkAds()); function checkAds(){if (document.getElementById('adsense')!=undefined){document.write("_gaq.push(['_trackEvent', 'Adblock', 'Unblocked', 'false',,true]);");}else{document.write("