Curse

Dax · Oct 12, 2005, 02:38 PM // 14:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by Numa Pompilius

No offence, guys, but this entire thread is based on speculation and hearsay.

Before you start to investigate WHY player numbers have dropped, perhaps you should first determine IF they have dropped?

Personally I don't think player numbers have dropped a lot recently, still seems to be plenty of people around on the euro servers when I play. This on EU servers, I don't know how it is in the US.

One way of estimating how many are playing, is by looking at number of districts.
In the EU, Ascalon still has 7-8 English-speaking districts, same as always.
I went to Tombs yesterday (wednesday evening), and there were 12 districts.

You can compare that to the international district, where everything but the botting-spots (notably Augury Rock) have 1 district.

The only real way to know is by knowing how many unique users there there are online. I would guess (notice I said guess) there are a crapload of alts. Normally I wouldn't care, but as I've read countless times the folks that have been through 4 times just wanna rush through.

Your'e right since there are no figures it's all speculation, though you can see and read (or lack thereof) that it's popularity has died down, before chapter 2 hype. On one hand it's hard to do visually, but at the same time I'm going to take what a pr person says with a grain of salt. It just makes for good conversation.

One thing that is not good sign, and not just in GW is when the newbie areas are deserted. Honestly I haven't checked but that's a red flag for me. Alts in low level areas usually breeze through, and newbs tend to hang around a bit more. Just my opinion, but I hate games that the only population is in the high level areas, there should always be a good influx of newbies

Doesn't matter anyways Chapter 2, there will be more people irreguardless.

Numa Pompilius · Oct 12, 2005, 02:46 PM // 14:46

That's a good point. Has anyone been through pre-searing recently? Were there many people there?

Tuoba Hturt Eht · Oct 12, 2005, 03:17 PM // 15:17

There are a lot of players in the Competition Arenas.
Number of districts daily are about 40+

Sayshina · Oct 13, 2005, 04:35 AM // 04:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tuoba Hturt Eht

There are a lot of players in the Competition Arenas.
Number of districts daily are about 40+

Well, yes. There do happen to be 54 districts at this moment in time. So being the suspicious sort I check in on 4 of them at random.

Dist 5: Empty.
Dist 12: Empty.
Dist 23: Empty.
Dist 51: Around 12 people.

Wow, that is an impressive display of Anet's didication to editing the truth.

Quote:

Originally Posted by sino-soviet

I think this whole school issue is just bullshit. I refuse to believe that all guild wars players in high school or college spent all of their time studying. Even if this was summertime, the popularity would be the same.

As another example of this, I point yet again to Diablo II, which routinely has 50,000+ active players on the servers at any given time. That's a 5 year old game, folks.

More importantly, I ask yet again why Anet doesn't give us this information? I maintain they feel they need to hide it because it doesn't look good for them.

[QUOTE=Mormegil]Not to totally ruin this thread, but unofficial player figures in GW and WoW had a ratio of 1.5:1 after Sorrow's Furnace...[QUOTE]

None of us have any hard facts here, but with sales figures (which are NOT unofficial) at 5:1 in favor of WoW, I have a very hard time believing the player figures are anywhere near your numbers.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chev of Hardass

You we're lied to? So, was I. My mommy told me that I was special. Now go find me where they said that the game would not change for release.

Your mommy and you never had a professional relationship, or at least I hope you didn't. While this may be a game business, it's still a business, and I am a customer. We have the same rights regarding this customer relationship as with any other product. The ONLY thing that sets this industry apart is the whole lease nonsense. This is a scam, it's clearly designed to remove any chance of a game company getting hit with a truth in advertising claim. I have no idea why this model hasn't been struck down in court, except that I think the courts still look at games as "kids stuff" and don't want to bother dealing with them.

If every purchaser of "Battlecruiser 3000 AD" had filed against the developer, there is at least some chance we wouldn't still be putting up with this crap today. If you have no idea what that horrible piece of crap was, look it up. It's considered by many to be the worst game ever released.

Quote:

Ohh and I am 26, spent 5 years in the Marine Corps, call me a child and I will point you to my men that died in war.

I'm 37, was a Navy Corpsman attached to 2nd. Recon, and served under Pres. Reagan and Bush (the less retarded Bush). With clear memories of blasting around the perimeter road in the back of a pickup with a couple of marines and a SAW, with a large amount of alcohol involved, you'll forgive me for not simply taking your manhood as a given.

I could also mention the self inflicted cigarette burns ("they dared me, am I gonna get an infection?"), or the kid that ate a slug in Oki. (you guessed it, they dared him) and wound up with parasitic worms in his eyes and him in traction face down in a desperate attempt to keep those worms from finding their way to his brain.

My marines were the best of the best. They were also children, pure and simple. Bringing war into it makes no difference at all, most of the armies in the world are made up primarily of children.

You may be 26, and it's just possible to be a man at that age. It's not an automatic by any means, there are lots of 26 year old children running around. Your user name would indicate you may not be as mature as you aspire to, and your outrage over a fairly obvious statement on my part tends to confirm that impression.

I made the assertion that people who thought a consumer who had been cheated should just shut up and go away were people who didn't earn their own money. I think I can back that up if it's really necessary.

Chev of Hardass · Oct 13, 2005, 01:53 PM // 13:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sayshina

Your user name would indicate you may not be as mature as you aspire to......

Ah ha ha ha ha hah aha ahha ha ah ahahahahh

Solid argument Watson.

Anarkii · Oct 13, 2005, 02:45 PM // 14:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sayshina

As another example of this, I point yet again to Diablo II, which routinely has 50,000+ active players on the servers at any given time. That's a 5 year old game, folks.

More importantly, I ask yet again why Anet doesn't give us this information? I maintain they feel they need to hide it because it doesn't look good for them.

There hasnt been a game in history to beat the replayability of Diablo 2. Keyword : Items. Ah, those days....

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sayshina

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mormegil

Not to totally ruin this thread, but unofficial player figures in GW and WoW had a ratio of 1.5:1 after Sorrow's Furnace...

None of us have any hard facts here, but with sales figures (which are NOT unofficial) at 5:1 in favor of WoW, I have a very hard time believing the player figures are anywhere near your numbers.

I'm with you. I logged in to Guild Wars after a (*calculates*) 72-day absense and I can vouch for the fact that player numbers have decreased a lot.

Tell me, whats there in GW to attract new players or to retain gamers whose interest include a wide spectrum of genres.
WoW has a solid PvE base, massive content (which means more replayability).

GW was never about that. Its forte was supposedly PvP, which has always been dicey in RPGs. All the hardcore lovers of such type of gaming were already in during the betas or joined in the first month of release. Quite a few of them got frustrated later and left. The rest are still there.

This type of gameplay necessiated balancing the game... to the frustration of the mainstream players.

The 1 million sales figure is misleading. A lot of them bought the game just because it had no monthly fee, and not because they liked the type of gameplay promised.

I dont see player figures improving at all till Chapter 2. And unless Chapter 2 has a MUCH better storyline and content, NCSoft and ANet will find it hard to manage maintaining the servers without a monthly fee.

Mormegil · Oct 13, 2005, 03:15 PM // 15:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by Anarkii

There hasnt been a game in history to beat the replayability of Diablo 2. Keyword : Items. Ah, those days....

I'm with you. I logged in to Guild Wars after a (*calculates*) 72-day absense and I can vouch for the fact that player numbers have decreased a lot.

Tell me, whats there in GW to attract new players or to retain gamers whose interest include a wide spectrum of genres.
WoW has a solid PvE base, massive content (which means more replayability).

GW was never about that. Its forte was supposedly PvP, which has always been dicey in RPGs. All the hardcore lovers of such type of gaming were already in during the betas or joined in the first month of release. Quite a few of them got frustrated later and left. The rest are still there.

This type of gameplay necessiated balancing the game... to the frustration of the mainstream players.

The 1 million sales figure is misleading. A lot of them bought the game just because it had no monthly fee, and not because they liked the type of gameplay promised.

I dont see player figures improving at all till Chapter 2. And unless Chapter 2 has a MUCH better storyline and content, NCSoft and ANet will find it hard to manage maintaining the servers without a monthly fee.

Yesterday the ToA had the first 4 districts full even before US got favor. I never had such a hard time getting into ToA before.

Those are just speculations, and based on wrong assumptions: the fact that you'll see your friend list shrink just means that some old players are taking a break (and some are leaving until chap2, after all many other great games went out recently), but what you won't see is that there is a constant stream of new players getting into the game.

Since you talk about D2, I remember people spitting out the same bullshit after 1 year D2 got out: people are leaving, cant find my friends, this game is dying out, too repetitive, and so on. I'm sick of the same idiotic statements repeated over and over: "omg, cant find my friend John and my friend Joe, this game has no content and is dying out, omfg, lets pay a dumb monthly fee and play World of No Friends before districts are totally empty!!!111!!!"

If you want to speculate over nothing, fine: you're convincing yourselves (or other ppl) of something not even remotely close to reality.

Oh and one last thing: WoW has more players mainly because it has a monthly fee (which means you feel forced to play the game, ask anyone playing WoW and this is what he'll be saying), because it has a very nice PvE, and countless hours of grinding to become Uber. It's a twisted concept: a WoW average player will play the game even though he's not willing to, a Gw player won't.

Anarkii · Oct 13, 2005, 03:46 PM // 15:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mormegil

Yesterday the ToA had the first 4 districts full even before US got favor. I never had such a hard time getting into ToA before.

Pre and Post searing Ascalon are the indications we should look for, not ToA. Most of the current players will obviously be in ToA.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mormegil

Those are just speculations, and based on wrong assumptions: the fact that you'll see your friend list shrink just means that some old players are taking a break (and some are leaving until chap2, after all many other great games went out recently

I wasnt looking at my friends list. I didnt even expect to find any of my friends online when I myself have been out for so long. I went to areas like pre and post-searing ascalon to gage the numbers.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mormegil

Since you talk about D2, I remember people spitting out the same bullshit after 1 year D2 got out: people are leaving, cant find my friends, this game is dying out, too repetitive, and so on. I'm sick of the same idiotic statements repeated over and over: "omg, cant find my friend John and my friend Joe, this game has no content and is dying out, omfg, lets pay a dumb monthly fee and play World of No Friends before districts are totally empty!!!111!!!"

D2 didnt sell because of battle.net. The number of players who play D2over TCP/IP with friends is around 10x the number that play on bnet. D2 is supposed to be repetitive. Its replayability comes only from its items. I dont have to say anything more than just point at the numbers still playing Diablo 2.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mormegil

It's a twisted concept: a WoW average player will play the game even though he's not willing to, a Gw player won't.

Some of my friends simply cancelled their WoW accounts and moved on to a different game when they wished so. I dont understand your point of being forced into play just because of the montly fee.

Mormegil · Oct 13, 2005, 05:05 PM // 17:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by Anarkii

Pre and Post searing Ascalon are the indications we should look for, not ToA. Most of the current players will obviously be in ToA.

But most of the players were already in the ToA, even before Sorrow's Furnace. How come 4 districts were full right yesterday night? Where's the so called "leaving trend"? Where's the decrease in number? I myself have tried a new PvE char recently (a Mesmer, -> I'll be damned to henchies for the whole game

) and saw a huge amount of people in pre-ascalon. There's even an increase of players on EU ToA districts, because Eu has favor more often recently.

You say you have many friends that just cancelled their accounts of WoW?...well they aren't aficionados, that's for sure. If you know how much it is gonna take to be lvl 60 and have Uber equipment in WoW, you won't cancel your account easily. Chances are, you'll keep playing. If you don't understand my point, surf the net to find some ominous effects of MMOrpgs addiction. WoW, with all his grind and his "play-an-hour-more-to-get-the-carrot" gameplay is a good example. No wonder WoW has more players.

EDIT: to anyone not understand what I mean, read this:

http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/th...=1#post5285116

A casual WoW player plays 6 hours a day average.

Darkest Dawn · Oct 13, 2005, 07:29 PM // 19:29

I have close to 800 hours in and no complaints yet.... And most of it is from PvE.

I don't play as long as before when it was fresh, and I think that's natural. Nothing can hold one's undivided attention forever. I still think it is a solid game, and worth the money.

I will say this: I truely believe that what ANET/NCSOFT does with chapter 2 will be a major factor in the establishment of this game or it's descent.

As far as population fluctuations, it is too early to tell anything. Many games wax and wane. Only time will tell if it is a dying game, or just on the low point of it's roller coaster ride of life on our computers. It's not just about long time players, but also new recruits.

In conclusion, I have never put in 800 hours on a game before except for two: Starcraft, and Hero's of Might and Magic 3 Complete. Rome: total war would come in next at around 400 hours. So I think I got a real value.

Let's just see what happens next....

EternalTempest · Oct 13, 2005, 08:41 PM // 20:41

When they came out, there were the "new" hot game and there are people who will follow the next "new" hot game and the ones that come out latter. Quake 4 is going to draw people away for a month or two, just like BF2 did.

There are pve that beat the game that don't do pvp that will proable come back with chapter 2.

Gw will be a new "hot" game when chapter 2 again and get a spike.

The population is going to rise and fall with time / new games coming out / and the expansion chpater's.

I also think the farther along the game is, the better it will retain people. With new skills and pve content coming each year, a "first" time player will have far more stuff to do then people that played the game when it launched.

Me, I took a month or two break and after SF came out been playing a few hours each night trying to get final assault and titans source done. Also started my second character Messner and re-done pre not too long ago.

generik · Oct 13, 2005, 10:41 PM // 22:41

It's time for Anet to rethink some design decisions!

EternalTempest · Oct 13, 2005, 11:32 PM // 23:32

Actually as long as they make enough money from sales to maintain the servers (the game has extremely optimized code so not require the servers used to power ffxi or wow for example) and the additional chapter 2 or free material brings in new players (sales) there going to be fine.

Just found this - they have sold over 1 million copies since April 2005, which is very impressive. Not only that if sales start dropping, a price drop will get even more people on board.

http://www.guildwars.com/press/pr11-22-09-05.html

Ednemak · Oct 14, 2005, 12:43 AM // 00:43

This game just doesnt excite me like it used too...

PVE...done that, no point anyway since my pvp character doesnt need anything from pve...like weapons for example

PVP...done that in every build possible in all the arena's and won HOH, used to be fun...not anymore

GVG...Fun sometimes, but not enough to bring me back

Guild Wars will never be as fun as diablo...in Diablo there is a proper mix of grinding and skill, this game is all skill which is fun for a while...

Diablo also lets you have maaaaaany types of items to mix and match until you have your own unique setup, and items affected your character A LOT in pvp its everyone with the same type of weapon and same everything with no difficulty at all to obtain and no influence on your character

Guildwars=Roller coster that had a peak and went shooting down

Dax · Oct 14, 2005, 01:02 AM // 01:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by EternalTempest

Actually as long as they make enough money from sales to maintain the servers (the game has extremely optimized code so not require the servers used to power ffxi or wow for example) and the additional chapter 2 or free material brings in new players (sales) there going to be fine.

Just found this - they have sold over 1 million copies since April 2005, which is very impressive. Not only that if sales start dropping, a price drop will get even more people on board.

http://www.guildwars.com/press/pr11-22-09-05.html

Indeed, thats good since they don't have a monthly charge. I wouldn't say they are optimised so much that everything is instanced except towns and stuff.... alot less overhead than having populated zones which is alot different than most MMORPGs.

Sales are a indicator but there have been MMO games that I've stopped playing after a month... So they got my money but I shouldn't be counted as a part of the population.

sino-soviet · Oct 14, 2005, 01:13 AM // 01:13

I am inclined to agree. The number of active players has dropped. However, none of us can accurately assess how much the actual ratio of inactive players to active players in compared to 5 months ago. However, what are we worrying about? If its the revenue being generated, 1 million copies sold in 6 months is no number to be ashamed of, and that number should increase significantly with the future expansions. Financially, Guild Wars is not having a problem, so I beg people to not flaunt their economic prowess and label Guild Wars as a financial failure before an expansion has been released. It may be a new fact to some of you, but the success of Guild Wars does not vary inversely with the success of WOW. This might be an alien concept to some, but WOW's sales do not mean Guild Wars is a failure!

Blatantly, the number of active users has gone down. However, I don't think this has dipped as low as many have made it out to have. The Guild Wars interface is designed in such a way that is quite difficult to notice how many people are online. The vast majority of players do not sit in towns all day looking for something to do. Arenanet has no reason to care about people taking a break from Guild Wars. Expansions will lead to a massive resurgence in active players. This game was not intended to be a grind fest; if Arenanet found it in their best interests to make it so, they can do so very easily. Its far too early to call Guild Wars a failure or a success, and no one has a clue what will happen until the next expansion. The future of GW rests solely with Arenanet, and not with Blizzard. Some people need to stop comparing so illogically; this is almost as fallicious as when people say xbox is a bigger success than the gamecube because it has sold more copies.

neoteo · Oct 14, 2005, 01:19 AM // 01:19

poeple are farming sorrow furnace

Dax · Oct 14, 2005, 01:23 AM // 01:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by sino-soviet

I am inclined to agree. The number of active players has dropped. However, none of us can accurately assess how much the actual ratio of inactive players to active players in compared to 5 months ago. However, what are we worrying about? If its the revenue being generated, 1 million copies sold in 6 months is no number to be ashamed of, and that number should increase significantly with the future expansions. Financially, Guild Wars is not having a problem, so I beg people to not flaunt their economic prowess and label Guild Wars as a financial failure before an expansion has been released. It may be a new fact to some of you, but the success of Guild Wars does not vary inversely with the success of WOW. This might be an alien concept to some, but WOW's sales do not mean Guild Wars is a failure!

Blatantly, the number of active users has gone down. However, I don't think this has dipped as low as many have made it out to have. The Guild Wars interface is designed in such a way that is quite difficult to notice how many people are online. The vast majority of players do not sit in towns all day looking for something to do. Arenanet has no reason to care about people taking a break from Guild Wars. Expansions will lead to a massive resurgence in active players. This game was not intended to be a grind fest; if Arenanet found it in their best interests to make it so, they can do so very easily. Its far too early to call Guild Wars a failure or a success, and no one has a clue what will happen until the next expansion. The future of GW rests solely with Arenanet, and not with Blizzard. Some people need to stop comparing so illogically; this is almost as fallicious as when people say xbox is a bigger success than the gamecube because it has sold more copies.

Agreed, although I get miffed when people talk trash about games they obviously have a bias on, in the end it only matter if you and your friends enjoy playing it.

I think I've pointed out that you may hate games like WoW and at the same time appreciate the success. Does that mean GW isn't? Not necessarily.
Unless you're a stockholder in the company or work for them what's the difference?

Mormegil · Oct 14, 2005, 01:43 AM // 01:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by sino-soviet

Blatantly, the number of active users has gone down.

I can't see that blatant decrease in players, apart from school starting. Again, I'm amused by people who state this, since I remember people saying the same thing (in a more vibrant way also) after 1 year of D2.

It's the oldest rule of the world: say something like this and you'll find hundreds of people who have "slight impressions", "sensations", who "noticed something strange and less people to play with" and so on.

Districts are still crowded, I can't see what youre talking about, frankly.

BBoy_Manchild · Oct 14, 2005, 02:46 AM // 02:46

poor little kids going to school
i guess the bad thing about free online games is that people without credit cards can play so there are way too many little kids, so they have to religiousize the game so whenever someone gets offended people get banned