Curse

wiz12268 · Oct 21, 2005, 02:03 AM // 02:03

Defraud...what did you get defrauded out of? Virtual gold in a virtual realitly. Technically it isn't even yours, it is property of Anet.

I wuold love to see the what would happen if all the guys who got permantly banned from the game filed a class action law suit against Anet.

You can't defaud someone out of something they do not actually own.

That is why buying and selling stuff on Ebay is crazy as well.

"you are paying for the time I spent collecting this" ...yada yada yada. Good disclaimer, and partially true I guess.

So if you can't sell something on Ebay for real money, then how can you be defrauded out of it in the game?

If they really want to start enforcing their own bylaws they should start kicking the under 18 players off their server whose parents don't have a clue about the game. But they can't do that because if they did they would lose 80% of their players.

Face it, all the rules and jargon they want to use isn't going to help anyone.

You get what you pay for. Guild Wars is free, people have to understand that and take it from there.

The reason why those othe rpay games are more social, is because you actually have to pay to play it, and not a lot of kids are going to be forking over $20 a month to buy a time card to play them, or have a credit card to have an account.

Enforce the age issue a little better, and it would solve a lot of these problems before they even start.

lord_shar · Oct 21, 2005, 02:15 AM // 02:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by wiz12268

Defraud...what did you get defrauded out of? Virtual gold in a virtual realitly. Technically it isn't even yours, it is property of Anet.

...<SNIP>...

You can't defaud someone out of something they do not actually own.

That is why buying and selling stuff on Ebay is crazy as well.

"you are paying for the time I spent collecting this" ...yada yada yada. Good disclaimer, and partially true I guess.

So if you can't sell something on Ebay for real money, then how can you be defrauded out of it in the game?

Did you read the article I posted about the multi-billion-dollar industry surrounding virtual property? That translates in REAL money, even if it sits on ANET's servers and is considered theirs by law. ANET's EULA has been amended to disallow real-money sales, but this isn't easily enforced in certain countries...

Quote:

Originally Posted by wiz12268

I wuold love to see the what would happen if all the guys who got permantly banned from the game filed a class action law suit against Anet.

When you buy the Guildwars CD and key, you're only buying a client. The Guildwars servers are still owned and maintained by ANET. Clients are allowed to connect provided their owners comply with the EULA. If they fail to do so, ANET can terminate that client's privileges to use their services. Banned users still have the $50.00 game copy they bought, so they're SOL in the eyes of the law...

destin · Oct 21, 2005, 02:34 AM // 02:34

Still at most retail stores you can exchange the game for another one just say its faulty and woolah they give you another copy.

wiz12268 · Oct 21, 2005, 02:39 AM // 02:39

When you buy the Guildwars CD and key, you're only buying a client. The Guildwars servers are still owned and maintained by ANET. Clients are allowed to connect provided their owners comply with the EULA. If they fail to do so, ANET can terminate that client's privileges to use their services. Banned users still have the $50.00 game copy they bought, so they're SOL in the eyes of the law...

Would be interesting to see I guess. If you had a a few hundred or a thousand people that got banned for doing something that was "illegal" in Anet's interpertation, and by their rules of conduct in a virtual reality, that paid $50 for a product that is worthless, and with not even a resale value since it is key coded in the real world.

Simple fodder for discussion since I doubt either of these will veer happen. Either Anet banning for simpel infraction or jilted members filing suit. I suppose one or two might sue in small claims for their $50 back, but that isn't even worth the time. On either side. Anet would be better suited cutting them a check and having them send the game to them.

Still at most retail stores you can exchange the game for another one just say its faulty and woolah they give you another copy

Best solution yet, as long as you haven't had the game 3-4 months

destin · Oct 21, 2005, 02:46 AM // 02:46

actually @ wal-mart you can bring anything back with out a reciept as long as you dont do it frequently. I did with final fantasy 11 I bought it off someone for 20 bucks and found its tied to a persons bank account I took it back and all I had to do was show my id and sign a paper. As long as they have the game in stock they will honor it.

destin · Oct 21, 2005, 02:52 AM // 02:52

sorry to double post just recieved word from anet. "I hate it when Im wrong"

"1. While playing Guild Wars, you must respect the rights of others and their rights to play and enjoy the game. To this end, you may not defraud, harass, threaten, or cause distress and/or unwanted attention to other players.

In a running agreement you agree to pay a person to run you and you do not pay them, you have just defrauded that play. The same goes for the other way, if a runner agrees to run you for payment and you pay but do not get run, that runner has just defrauded you. In both cases when this is reported to us we research the incident in great detail and if a violation is found we will take action if necessary. We do not discuss with players what particular punishments apply to particular violations, but be assured that we take violations of the rules very seriously. If you have any further questions or comments, feel free to contact us"

this is there comment, Im glad I didnt say I would pay someone 50k in game or else I would be subject to fraud

id0l · Oct 21, 2005, 03:05 AM // 03:05

Although I could really use an extra 50K (saving for FoW armor)....

Batou of Nine · Oct 21, 2005, 05:19 AM // 05:19

i got scammed for 200g today...LMAO ROFL LOL!!

How pitiful is that? Some runner was gonna do a run from augury to seekers passage, i was paying half before and half after. As soon as i paid the first half, he logged off. BUHAHAHAHAHHA. WTF would posses a guy to scam a person of 200g in this game? a 12 yr old adolescent who cant quite whipe his own @$$ yet?

i seriously sat there laughing for like 15 minutes straight!! i didnt even bother taking screen shots to report this silliness, why bother? PFftt... man im still laughing... shall we BAN him!?! HAHAHA

BAN BAN BAN!!

id0l · Oct 21, 2005, 06:15 AM // 06:15

Yeah, that's pretty sad...

Zexion · Oct 21, 2005, 01:34 PM // 13:34

One thing I think is sad is they ban for scamming at runs.
True, it's deserved, but I don't think a SS can provide NEARLY enough evidence.
You could just go into a party, start a trade, and cancel it, say "Hey, pay that cash from me running you" and quickly take a screenshot.

What you see in the SS:
Trade canceled.
You: "Pay up"

Later you could take a screen of the same party, with the guy left.

So it will seem like you had run him, and he didn't pay, and then left.

But what really happened was just you being an ass.

So no, I don't think people should ban for this.

_Zexion

lord_shar · Oct 21, 2005, 02:31 PM // 14:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zexion

One thing I think is sad is they ban for scamming at runs.
True, it's deserved, but I don't think a SS can provide NEARLY enough evidence.
You could just go into a party, start a trade, and cancel it, say "Hey, pay that cash from me running you" and quickly take a screenshot.

What you see in the SS:
Trade canceled.
You: "Pay up"

Later you could take a screen of the same party, with the guy left.

So it will seem like you had run him, and he didn't pay, and then left.

But what really happened was just you being an ass.

So no, I don't think people should ban for this.

_Zexion

ANET does maintain server-side logs that we don't see, and these include character movement data with time stamps, who you were grouped with, chat log excerpts, what monsters are being routinely farmed, etc. This data allows ANET to confirm or deny claims leveled against other players, so good luck to anyone who tries to doctor a screen shot without corresponding server-side log data. It wouldn't surprise me if fraudulent accusers submitting false evidence get perma-banned the first time.

escanor · Oct 21, 2005, 03:04 PM // 15:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by destin

Ok.. I think that is totally ignorant. Im not a scammer nor have been scammed. Really though if you get scammed its because you placed trust in someone hence you gave them money before getting what you paid for or giving to them what there paying for before they pay for it. If this happens I believe it is your own fault and there is always a risk that they wont pay. That is like the gamblers around town who say give me 10k and if you roll so and so you get so much... If you place your trust in them that is your fault.

Now if they were using third party programs I can see a reason for them to be banned. I think Anet is very ignorant if they ban these low scammers rather than take care of much larger problems such as the trade of real money for in game money etc...

If I steal your car it's your fault for leaving it on the street then?

destin · Oct 22, 2005, 02:34 PM // 14:34

If I leave the keys in it and the doors unlocked yea... Your example made no sense... There not just stealing the persons money without any of the persons consent. The person is pretty much giving it to them or not.

escanor · Oct 23, 2005, 04:51 AM // 04:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by destin

If I leave the keys in it and the doors unlocked yea... Your example made no sense... There not just stealing the persons money without any of the persons consent. The person is pretty much giving it to them or not.

people are scamming the runners as in they do not pay and just run off.

destin · Oct 23, 2005, 03:43 PM // 15:43

yes, and the runners give them the run BEFORE they get there money. Its a double edged sword. One of the parties has to trust the other. If I really wanted to skip the game to buy armor I would pay I dont see why people run off anyway. Its only what 2-3k?