Curse

Makkert · Sep 16, 2005, 08:23 PM // 20:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by Scaphism

Despite its other flaws, GW has done a good job keeping the equipment disparity down to a bare minimum. Let's give praise where praise is due. Hooray PVP equipment.

Can you explain me this a bit Scaphism?
Lately I've been worried on just this specific area. The release of strictly better items in the form of green weapons compared to the weapons available for pvp chars makes me wonder.
Compare for instance Rago's firewand with a normal pvp wand. This sounds like an obvious advantage. How do you see this? Is this advantage so small it isn't worth mentioning according to you?

Ensign · Sep 16, 2005, 09:09 PM // 21:09

PvP and collector wands only having one modifier has been a problem for some time - rare wands have always been able to have two mods, making them potentially strictly better than the PvP equivilents. While that's a potential imbalance, it hasn't really bugged me because staves are pretty much universally better than wand + focus, and the best wand in the game is the henge sword with an enchanting part.

PvE uber-loot has always existed, though, from low req uber-shields to unique collector items (like the Energy Storage focus), to the henge sword which everyone should have. Two mod wands are on that list, but pretty far down, to be honest - I find the missing PvP-style collector loot (Monk staves, strength shields, and the like) to be a bigger issue, personally.

Peace,
-CxE

Phades · Sep 16, 2005, 09:19 PM // 21:19

It would be easily solved if they expanded the mod and unlock system to include the "other" rare mod and item combinations.

Theos · Sep 16, 2005, 09:23 PM // 21:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by Phades

It would be easily solved if they expanded the mod and unlock system to include the "other" rare mod and item combinations.

This probably should not be an unlock, atmost one unlock.
Example: For 1000 Faction you can unlock second slot on wands.

Makkert · Sep 17, 2005, 06:31 AM // 06:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ensign

to the henge sword which everyone should have.

......and which no one can get anymore, since they took it out of Henge.
go ANet. :/

anyway, thank you for the clarification.

Tijger · Sep 17, 2005, 08:27 AM // 08:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aracos79

I used to find the random arenas fairly fun. You could pop in, kill some stuff, and walk away with a little faction for your time. Now... all you find are griefing rangers who do nothing but run constantly until you get fed up and leave. Seriously, the last time I tried the random arena, there was at least 1 running ranger in every match I played. Totally defeats the purpose of the random arena IMO. I think of them as quick, CS like matches... not 30 minute bore-fests.

At lower level arena's those can be dealt with easily I'd say. I played in Yaks Bend last night just for fun and we had one opponent try this. Hamstring from the warrior, Hunters Arrow from me and watch him bleed and die, didnt take more then 2 minutes

Four Pool Rush · Nov 22, 2005, 08:27 PM // 20:27

This topic is still good and shines like a jewel on this forum. Dont let it die!

jibikao · Nov 22, 2005, 10:00 PM // 22:00

Blackace,

Very interesting thread! I am at work right now and don't have time to read through every single post but looks like the post was made BEFORE they change Nature's Renewal.

Anyway, what's your view on Ranger's Beast Mastery? I didn't see you mentioning it in the first few posts and the last few ones as well. I've been a BM fan since I bought the game, 6 months ago (Yes, I am a TRUE "Johnny" and I love using different strategies to win the game. Using cookie-cutter build really PAINS me. I would throw the game out before using cookie-cutter builds)

Recently, they've changed Vamp Touch recharge to 2s. Do you think they do this for Beast Mastery, mainly because of Ferocious Strike? I've been running this Vamp Touch + Pet build and I am amazed by how GOOD I am. I can counter so many things that I could not. Warriors always gave me troubles when I play as a pure beast master since my pet does TERRIBLE damage on warriors and with Charm, Comfort Animal, Rez Sig occupied, I can hardly find any skill slots for self-healing and defense.

Just curious to hear what's your view on Beast Mastery. My view is that Pets are good for blocking things but since they suffer from "controls", beast masters can't direct the pets the way they direct their "arrows/swords". Pet can get stuck and pet doesn't change target as fast.

My other issues with BM is that most pet skills are REALLY inferior to other Ranger skills. First of all, you need to equip two skills to even use pet skills (Charm/Comfort). Then the effect of those pet skills usually rely on a "condition" like Scavenger Strike, Melandru's Assault, Miaming Strike, Besatial Pounce, and even Brutual Strike. The only two skills that somewhat make Beast Mastery viable in PvP are: Disrupting Lunge and Ferocious Strike. Disrupting Lunge is sooooooooooooo good. That's the only skill that almost every Beast Master uses in PvP (and even PvE). Predator's Pounce is a great PvE skill that truly outshines other pet skills besides Disrupting and Ferocious.

My other question is does Charm REALLY balance Beast Mastery? All BM must equip Charm. I have no problem with it but Charm has no ability to heal/rez the pet so we are forced to take Comfort Animal. That's two skill slots dedicated to a Skill Line, excluding all the other pet skills that make sure the pet can stay "competitive" (Call of Haste and Call of Protection). I mean Beast Masters already suffer from skill disable and VERY limited skill slots. I really don't know if BM is as balanced as A.Net thinks it is.

jibikao · Nov 22, 2005, 10:31 PM // 22:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kaylee Ann

The problem is that in this game, like many others, that proper enchantment stacking can make a team almost invinceable to the average group.

My favorite example of this is a game I played for several years, Shadowbane. In this game, you could literally stack so many buffs on an entire group, making your defense so incredibly high, that the average 'balanced' group did not have a chance. It is one of those things that crushes 90% of other groups right off the bat because they aren't specifically designed to take it out. Sure you can design a group to take it out (ie a counter), but if you aren't designed that way it is gg.

Basically the end game goal, in a perfect world, is to come to that perfect balance between healing/damage and buffs/debuffs, so that no combination of skills/classes just completely wrecks everything in its path before the match even started, and true skill in group design and playability can shine.

Is this soooooooooooo true!

There are just not enough skills to counter enchantments. In Team Arena, a group with one healer and one protection monk can own 80% of the time because you need a VERY specific build to counter healing/protection monks. While those builds may succeed in countering monks, they may be bad against other "average" builds.

That's why most people think when they face a team with 2 monks, they are doomed because in reality, it is the truth if you don't have the proper skills.

I've tried most of the enchantment stripping skills and I am just disappointed. You can NEVER strip enough to counter their enchantments. And those poor Warriors/Rangers can hit the monk for 10mins without taking health of the monk's health, and the moment they decide to attack another target, the monk(s) can heal that target all day long.

It is indeed very hard to balance. For average players, enchantments are really really too good.

I also want to add that Enchantments are always GOOD when being used; whereas Strip Enchantments are very situational. The problem is that in PvP, people can cast enchantments before the match starts, so by the time you face your opponents, you strip the enchantment but their enchantments have already been recharged! Then you need to wait for like 20-30s to cast strip enchantments again... then their skills are recharged. The cycle goes on and it's very difficult to beat this cycle. So most of the time, you only reserve strip enchantments for "more" important enchantments like Mark of Protection, Healing Hands, Guardian., etc. (for warriors and bow rangers).

SlayerD · Nov 22, 2005, 10:34 PM // 22:34

Woa to much information for me to read all post here

From what i read has been helpful thanks, probably the best thread i have read yet!!!

Denny Pace · Nov 24, 2005, 01:08 AM // 01:08

It's about time we had such an intelligent thread going here. Bravo!

Back to what are the resources in GW:

1) Energy
2) Signets
3) Corpses
4) Adrenaline

Now, that would suggest that if you brought a team to HoH, all you'd have to do is massive energy denial, mess with signets, consume corpses and perhaps cast Shadow of Fear or Faintheartedness on the Warriors, and you'd succeed, right? Well, anyone who's played for any length of time knows that is a false statement. Fast acting, high-powered groups like coordinated Ranger spikers, some skilled Iway (did I say skilled and Iway in the same sentence?) groups, etc. can be built to successfully deal with a group that's into messing with resources.

The thing about GW is, there is no perfect build, and there's ALWAYS a 'balance problem.' For example, the Iway groups are Fame Factories, because most people have no idea how to deal with them. Same with Minion Factory. Same with Ranger spikers. Well played, these are very specific builds with a HUGE advantage in one or two areas, which the better groups who play them can exploit and use to cover up their inherent weaknesses. That's right, these builds have weaknesses too, just as energy-drain groups can be brought to their knees.

To me, it's a matter of people playing a solid build - whatever that may be - and doing it in a coordinated, intelligent fashion. Being from a guild that utilizes a lot of balanced builds, I can tell you that we've often brought down the fame factories simply because we adjust our tactics accordingly. To be successful in GW, you MUST adjust your tactics according to your opponent at that time. If there's enough flexibility in your individual and team builds, you can overcome anything except a better coordinated, more experienced team, and it's not necessarily dependent on build. It usually has more to do with how you play it.

In the end, that's what creates balance - the ability to counter and succeed. Fortunately for us, GW has that ability built-in, and all we need to do is take advantage of it.

Arturo02 · Nov 24, 2005, 07:35 AM // 07:35

Sirlin’s site

Ok, while some of the articles point out the importance of dictating the behavior of your opponent and out thinking them, the site is not about games like GW.

This is a website that is about games like Street Fighter, Starcraft, Marvel vs Capcom 2, etc..

Just look at what they say about this topic:

“Multiplayer vs. Single Player
Balancing a competitive multiplayer game is orders of magnitude harder than balancing a single player game. When we try to balance a single player game, we are basically striving to match the “skill” of the computer to the skill of the player. There are many techniques for doing this, and there is a large margin of acceptable error. For example, consider what happens if Joe Hardcore figures out a super sneaky way of beating almost every enemy in a single player game for free. Further suppose that this method is very obscure and discovered by less than 1% of all players. Factoring in strategy guides and the internet, sure, others will figure out this method, but the overall impact will be small. Joe Hardcore feels full of himself, the computer doesn’t mind being beaten, and most players will never know about this method at all. It’s bad, but it’s not that bad.”
No, that doesn’t happen like that. People go online and post the cheats, even if it is a single player game. It’s not an issue of a game being a multiplayer or single player, it’s the popularity of a game.

I question this site’s relevance to GW aside from the basic principles cited above because it focuses on games that are 1x1, not team based.

Auntie I · Nov 24, 2005, 12:15 PM // 12:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by Denny Pace

It's about time we had such an intelligent thread going here. Bravo!

Back to what are the resources in GW:

1) Energy
2) Signets
3) Corpses
4) Adrenaline

Just a small question about why you consider signets a resource. The others make sense. You need energy to cast skills, adrenaline is needed for certain warrior skills and corpses for certain Necromancer skills. Why do you consider signets a resource?

Omitting the Resurrection Signet since everyone can use it, each profession has the following signets:
Elementalist - 0
Mesmer - 5 Signet of Midnight {Elite}, Signet of Humility, Leech Signet, Keystone Signet {Elite}, Signet of Weariness
Monk - 5 Blessed Signet, Signet of Devotion, Purge Signet, Bane Signet, Signet of Judgement {Elite}
Ranger - 1 Antidote Signet
Necromancer - 3 Barbed Signet, Signet of Agony, Plague Signet {Elite}
Warrior - 2 Doylak Signet, Healing Signet
My apologies if I missed any Signets.

I don't see how these signets are different from any other type of skill. Skills themselves could be considered a resource since a more varied selection of skills can lead to "better" builds or at least more flexibility when creating individual or teams builds. I believe this is the idea behind the Unlock All Skills argument. I think the counter argument to UAS is that the majority of players do not have the interest or the ability to use all the skills. I know I don’t. I’ve tried several times to learn to use Kinetic Armor (Elementalist skill, fairly commonly used) and haven’t so far. The use of this skill just doesn’t fit with my play style and learning to play a different style is not the easiest thing in the world to do. I have great respect for those that can. I guess I’m only a wannabee “Johnny”.