Curse

Loralai · Nov 12, 2005, 01:07 PM // 13:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by unienaule

That seems to indicate they are not in favor of farming with solo players, and with the comments about teamwork, might lead one to believe they want an 8-man team for a reason.

I read that into Gaille's quote as well. However, we can all simply understand that a team number limitation (before leaving a town or outpost, be it henchmen or PUG) would completely eradicate soloists. So, you may ask, why have they not implemented this? My thought....there are far more soloing players than many may think, and this restriction would but a large dent in their customer base.

Mistress Nocturnal · Nov 12, 2005, 01:07 PM // 13:07

AI = artificial Idiots?

If Aoe, then chickenize
elsif cycloneaxe, then chickenize as well

lol WTF is this.

For my part i farmed because of boredom and finding things. When i dont have anything to accomplish anymore best thing to do was farming. Been thru with the game 3x and i cant see the quests and missions anymore.
I logged on yesterday and tried a few things and it was boring as hell chickens everywhere. I logged off and played RA3 for 6 hours and i havent done that for over a year now. i dont like playing with chickens

unienaule · Nov 12, 2005, 01:13 PM // 13:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by Loralai

I read that into Gaille's quote as well. However, we can all simply understand that a team number limitation (before leaving a town or outpost, be it henchmen or PUG) would completely eradicate soloists. So, you may ask, why have they not implemented this? My thought....there are far more soloing players than many may think, and this restriction would but a large dent in their customer base.

Problems with that: 1)rezoning for groups 2)running 3) taking screenshots by yourself 4) doing random stuff like when I took a picture of the red cones around wards. There are just too many reasons to not put a cap on it. I'd be in favor of it, if it were not for those things.

Fantus · Nov 12, 2005, 01:18 PM // 13:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by Loralai

My thought....there are far more soloing players than many may think, and this restriction would but a large dent in their customer base.

Indeed. Which makes me wonder why they simply can't accept it since so many people want to play GW this way. At least 50% of the players in my guild do it... which doesn't mean that we don't like teamplay. We have guild runs every evening and thoroughly enjoy playing in teams. Solo playing is sometimes a welcome change and a means to earn some money. Nothing more, nothing less. Hard to believe why anybody should have a problem with that... At least solo farmers usually don't ebay, they earn their money THEMSELVES.

Loralai · Nov 12, 2005, 01:18 PM // 13:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by unienaule

Problems with that: 1)rezoning for groups 2)running 3) taking screenshots by yourself 4) doing random stuff like when I took a picture of the red cones around wards. There are just too many reasons to not put a cap on it. I'd be in favor of it, if it were not for those things.

Solutions:
1. use the district selector
2. pffffttt...take henchmen if it's that necessary (i'm anti running)
3. not a must-have...good sacrifice in my opinion if you want to achieve the removal of soloing
4. see #3

I stand by my previous statement. It's a business decision made on their part not to cap it. I see the number of complaints because we can't solo far outweighing those of people who can't screenshoot themselves.

Phades · Nov 12, 2005, 01:19 PM // 13:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by unienaule

Problems with that: 1)rezoning for groups 2)running 3) taking screenshots by yourself 4) doing random stuff like when I took a picture of the red cones around wards. There are just too many reasons to not put a cap on it. I'd be in favor of it, if it were not for those things.

Every area would not need to be like that. They could easily select places or sections of the game where it is more appropriate for "required groups" than others. Hell, putting that into effect across all areas would make pre-searing a lot slower to get through for a new player. Alot of afk, clueless, or already finished with pre-searing people there to be honest. Mission areas would be a given, as would some of the more late game areas, but they wouldnt need to be full size parties either. Of course, they would have to be larger than just 2 people, to avoid the afk second account syndrome.

Theos · Nov 12, 2005, 02:35 PM // 14:35

The update is good, the bugs its riddled with is bad. Anet needs to fix the trigger for what causes a unit to move out of the way. Also the distance a unit runs and the innability to then aquire a new target are somewhat out of whack; in FoW I can simply make a Shadow Warrior run between several targets doing nothing, just running.

As for the hit to farmers, it true it has hit them hard but it has also helped other less farm-capable classes to farm (my opinion). You can now simply make things run around you like morrons while you pick them off, so not so bad after all. But again this goes to the "to much running" bit that I covered above.

I doubt that any large portion of the people will leave because of this, for one its clearly bugged so just wait a few days. Two it has the obvious reason of making GW more team orriented, and making the teams have an actual brain... and not the current Trinity thought pattern. I went to FoW last night following the updates, no one in my group complained. Sure things were slower but hey our water ele made things so much easier, and our fire ele nuked to his hearts content (Hey this update gives use to 1/3 of my illusion line!

). Sure the AI now makes warriors (and sadly berserkers) to run right at the mushy center, but then thats what those mesmers, necros, rangers, water/earth eles, and monks are for

To those who complain, I am sorry you can no longer run around like gods among stupid AI but then again maybe you can adapt and find something else to farm/kill/be god to. Just to be honest, this doesn't need the flames its getting, sure you don't like the nerf to farming but hey others like the boost to actual strategy and team play. Double edge sword to the max.

entropy · Nov 12, 2005, 02:48 PM // 14:48

What is people against farming and running? I would never be able to ascend my 4th character without running. I am not going to waste another 20+ hours of my life doing all those boring ass missions that tell an absolutely crappy story. What's wrong with farming? People can choose how they like to play the game. Anet if just wrong to believe they can dictate how the players actually play. Whether they play through the story, farm all day, or just do w/e.

jonnybegood · Nov 12, 2005, 02:49 PM // 14:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by dr_james2k

Ok, I've found a good point. It may be actually possible to get bears in pre searing due to this. If you take an elementalist with you, let the bear come close then cast firestorm - watch it run and use charm animal, it might work.

the creatures in pre are not moving out of the way of my firestorm, is there a difference between worlds?

Theos · Nov 12, 2005, 03:00 PM // 15:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by jonnybegood

the creatures in pre are not moving out of the way of my firestorm, is there a difference between worlds?

I have noticed certain things not move (Jades for example) and just keep hacking away and killing you.

Tactical-Dillusions · Nov 12, 2005, 03:10 PM // 15:10

Get rid of player to player trade.

Prevent the dropping of items.

Implement an auction house.

Boost drops.

Add more skills.

Add more areas.

Everyone has fun and the bots do not make real money from farming.

/problem solved.

Aera Lure · Nov 12, 2005, 03:11 PM // 15:11

Alright. I forced myself to give it 24 hours before making any comments and sharing my opinion. Had to go play and see for myself what I thought, as well as think about it a bit. Done that.

I had a lot to say about the whole AoE thing. It got too long lol, so I'm just going to say this:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gaile Gray

And for those who are concerned (I won't say "whining" but others have

) about farming, why in Dwayna's name do you think you should be able to solo some of the highest level areas to farm? How realistic is that expectation? I mean, if you could in the past -- and if that wasn't intended or balanced -- does that mean it should be left for players to do so indefinitely? No criticism for farmers, not at all. But in a game built on strategy and teamwork, like Guild Wars, it simply doesn't seem to me that it's reasonable to ask to play the highest end content as a solo player.

This is the first I have seen Anet say in effect, we dont like farming and we are taking actions to stop you from doing it. Now THAT concerns me.

More than half of the players of the game I would estimate make their income from farming to some degree. Its simply the best way to do it. For some its just fun. Happens also to be a lot of grind. Remove this, continue making it less enjoyable or even possible, I fear you may end up removing one of the incentives for a large part of the population. Rather then being an economic fix (ie, remove farming) I think it could quite possibly have a more direct result of removing the best source of income from many. I dont think that is helpful in any way, to really anyone.

One of the things I like about GW is the many ways you can play it. You could PvP with all of its iterations, you could PvE either with henchmen or friends or PUGs, you could solo farm or solo play, you could run and you could even do fairly idle things like find cool places to take snapshots lol.

This update also seems to be moving in a direction that discourages some of these things. You could play with henchmen, but we'll make it a bit more challenging to use them and they pick up most if not all of the valubles, so maybe you shouldnt. You could solo or solo farm, but wait, we now would prefer you did not do that, so dont. We will encourage you to stop now by nerfing until you either cant or dont want to. In fact, we think you should simply PvP or PvE with other players. Sure seems that way. I like the freedom of playing any number of ways, depending on my time commitments and what I feel like doing.

I'm stubborn. Its not going to stop me from playing the way I like to. I dont like the update, and its the first one where I've had that opinion. Players will adapt, but more casual players I think will be a bit frustrated.

Joe L. · Nov 12, 2005, 03:21 PM // 15:21

Plain and simple, if Anet never intended for anyone to farm the higher level monsters, then shame on them for ever including any skills that would make it possible to do so. Hipocrasy

Mysterial · Nov 12, 2005, 03:51 PM // 15:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aera Lure

This is the first I have seen Anet say in effect, we dont like farming and we are taking actions to stop you from doing it. Now THAT concerns me.

Actually, it doesn't say anything about farming. It says Arenanet doesn't want solo farming. Which is not the same thing. If you want to farm with a few henchmen or other players (i.e. as the game was designed to be played) then there's no problem with it, and for the most part Arenanet has improved or left alone that aspect.

It's pretty clear the fact that you can solo groups of monsters of higher level than you and get better loot than if you took a group has always been a design flaw, not intended. If they wanted you to be able to kill things solo, they wouldn't have bothered to add henchmen in the first place.

Bit Player · Nov 12, 2005, 04:00 PM // 16:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mekanic

Quoted for truth, and adding another forementioned thought. As people have said this makes PvE more like PvP. Well I personally hate PvP, thats why I play PvE. But the main problem is, when you go to tombs to fight, you don't expect someone to come at you with armor with an AL of 100, attacking for an unbelieveable amount of damage, and be lvl 29, not to mention that there will be 15 of them vs. your 8.

Agreed - make PvE foes big, tough, and in (sometimes) overwhelming numbers, but let us keep some advantage.

I've also read the opinions that the AI update makes PvE more like PvP. I don't enjoy the PvP aspects of the game at all: as previously mentioned, the manic chaos and mixed-up scrambles are not my idea of fun.

Secondly, to me, playing environment changes such as AI, should not be dictated to address issues such as solo-farming or botting - this seems to be a bit like "cutting off thy nose to spite thy face," the "tail wagging the dog," or [insert favorite metaphor here].

In short: I enjoyed the game immensely before the 11/10 & 11/11 patch... I do not now. (Yeah, I know, boring, can't play, noOb, stagnant, unimaginative... but that's just me I guess...)

Loralai · Nov 12, 2005, 04:00 PM // 16:00

Straying back to the topic of the update/s. I've have done testing with my elemental, with henchies essentially because that is how i typically play...not always, but for the most part. There are a few things I would like to address after doing so.

Were there other changes made in coordination with these updates, it may have worked. For instance, if the original intent of the game was this, and elementalists and other squishy characters were intended to repeatedly be in the center of melee, (which is what is happening exclusively with me when I or any character utilizes AoE), why are we able to cast from outside the aggro bubble? Why is elemental armor incapable of providing an acceptable level of protection against a barrage of melee attacks.

Sure, I can use wards. But wards do expire and while I am very good with energy management, the duration of the battles is draining on energy. While I still say this update is an exceptionally poor decision (any major change to basic game build or makeup is, in my opinion, after a certain length of time during which players adjust to it), if coupled with an upgrade to the various armors of the squishies, and various energy cost changes to the more exhaustive AoE skills which are not quite as effective as they once were, I may be satisfied enough to stick it through.

aron searle · Nov 12, 2005, 04:01 PM // 16:01

Quote:

If they wanted you to be able to kill things solo, they wouldn't have bothered to add henchmen in the first place.

If they didnt want solo farming, they should have made a 5+ teamsize restriction on areas.

Oh but they wouldnt do that because that would REALLY pizz people off.

Xue Yi Liang · Nov 12, 2005, 04:02 PM // 16:02

I did sign the petition about the enemy that avoids AoE.

But I must admit it's ironic .... This is the only time I've ever seen so many people support a "dumbed down" enemy AI.

aron searle · Nov 12, 2005, 04:12 PM // 16:12

Quote:

But I must admit it's ironic .... This is the only time I've ever seen so many people support a "dumbed down" enemy AI.

Yea it is isnt it, i think theres a few reasons for this though.

1.people want to be able to farm and for it not to be toooo boring, this dosnt stop it, but makes it more slow and boring.

2. if i want to play charachters that act like pvp players, ill play pvp.

3. the excicution of this update is awfull, spells like throw dirt should not make them run away in fear, buggy buggy bugggy.

prob more but that will do.

Overall their wouldnt be half as much complaining from me included if they actualy had tested this properly, which they clearly didnt.

And also if they LISTENED to us and removed it untill it was actually patched.

Ive given up playing for today untill the bugs are ironed out its too frustrating. I can work around the bugs, but why the hell should i work around bugs

(also my monk is now forced to be a healer or prot in pve, no one wants smiting monks after this they are now only for solo play.

chingon · Nov 12, 2005, 04:16 PM // 16:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by Xue Yi Liang

I did sign the petition about the enemy that avoids AoE.

But I must admit it's ironic .... This is the only time I've ever seen so many people support a "dumbed down" enemy AI.

Thing is the ai isnt any smarter. so people aren't really asking to make the ai dumber, cus its not a very realistic ai in many situations to begin with.