Curse

entropy · Nov 11, 2005, 06:51 PM // 18:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by Teufel Eldritch

Well don't join a group with ppl using scatter causing AoEs. True, true... easier said than done as Eles aren't the only ones with scatter AoEs, but if no one is using scatter AoEs then there will be no probs.

The problem, if want to call it that, I see with this patch is... the profession bias against Mez in favor of nukers has been reversed. So instead of Mez being left out of groups Eles will now be left out of groups. Good for Mez, bad for Eles. Tho I will say this... in general any type of profession bias(even when it works out well for my profession) is bad.

Exactly my point any and all aoe's have been nerfed. This is just like NR how that made enchants all useless in pvp. Aoe's all useless in PvE.

Glaekenjz · Nov 11, 2005, 06:53 PM // 18:53

I assume the point of the update is to stop farming, but elementalists got the shaft as well. As far as my opinion on the update itself, I think it sucks. Anet came out recently and said that they didn't mind farming. Once you beat the whole PVE game, all of the quests, then what? Not everyone like to PvP. Farming was a good time killer for endgame PVE characters. Now that it has been made so much more difficult than it was, they are going to lose alot of customers. I like the game, I will continue to play. But I can see alot of people leaving and not coming back if they leave this the way it is.

For those of you saying that "this is just the first day, give it time to create a new build", in some ways thats true. But the key to farming is killing as many enemies at one time, while using as little characters you can to maximize item drops. AOE is the only really effective way to kill multiple enemies at once. Since all AOE is now nerfed, solo farming on a whole is basically dead.

Another point to make. How are you going to make it so easy for PvP characters to get the best skills and weapons, then stop PVE characters from the only effective way we have to get the same things?

Darkest Dawn · Nov 11, 2005, 06:54 PM // 18:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by sir skulkcrasher

I'm actually sad.. My guildies spend 10k on my fire elementlist and now i'm thinking of killing that character. Also i got two weapons that is customized (dumb idea) so i don't what to do!

I hear ya. I got a sweet gold fire staff.....

Also, I don't have a ton of extra skill points to be able to get all the skills to run the other "alternative" builds at this time......

Guess I'll need to farm for skill points....

The New Guy · Nov 11, 2005, 06:54 PM // 18:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by yeaitsjim

Quote "The game [Guild Wars PvE] has been turned into a game of tag."

Who's it? I think it's Orion, see ya definately, see everyone's runinng away from him.

Also, I commend everyone for suggesting alternative builds to fire, but honestly TRY it, ALL type of Area Effect spells for ALL classes, cause the enemy to literally break morale and run around like supid chickens... and they call it artifical intelligence, artifical being the KEY word there.

ROFL!! Good one!

Imagine this scenario....EXPECIALLY imagine playing in FoW or UW....

Monster: HARHARHAR I'll kill you!!!
Mo/Me: (casts AoE spell)
Monster: AARRHHH!!! AOE SPELL!!! MOOOOMMMMYYY!!!!! (runs away) O wait, there's one! HARHARHAR I'll rip your head off!!!
E/MO: (casts AoE spell)
Monster: AARRHHH!!! AOE SPELL!!! MOOOOMMMMYYY!!!!! (runs away) O wait, there's one! HARHARHAR I'll rip your head off!!!

And it keeps going and going and going and going and going and going and going and going and going and going and going and going and going...

They call it AI? I call it ADA! Artificial Dumb A$$es!

Mordakai · Nov 11, 2005, 06:56 PM // 18:56

The death of the Fire Elementalist has been greatly exaggerated.

Hint: Use different skills.

EDIT: I do agree that the AI needs to be tweaked. Monsters should only run away after their health is at a certain point. This will mimic human players more (I often don't realize I'm standing in an AoE effect until my health starts going down. Since there is no friendly fire, it's pretty much impossible to know whether the AoE spell was cast by an opponent, or by an ally, at least until you start taking damage).

WickedMan · Nov 11, 2005, 06:56 PM // 18:56

Well this game just got gay. I have used 1100 hours in 6 months. And now this update...
I have two accounts & alot of chars. Think im gonna quit & stick to CS & AA. And some other games. I have played this game sinse the beta & enjoyed it so much. Fire eles are useless. I hope they take this AI shit away. & im not about to tell anny one else how great this game it cause it just went from 10 to -5. And yes, I cry. And no, im no noob.

-Wicked out-

Sir Skullcrasher · Nov 11, 2005, 06:57 PM // 18:57

If enemies can run around from AoE spells... why can't players out run spells like Crippling Anguish, or other stupid spells that slow you down!..

And New Guy thats funny!

Monster: AARRHHH!!! AOE SPELL!!! MOOOOMMMMYYY!!!!! (runs away) O wait, there's one! HARHARHAR I'll rip your head off!!!

ROFL!!

Sarus · Nov 11, 2005, 06:57 PM // 18:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by Whosaidwhatnow

What does that have to do with anything? How does NPC AI affect what players do in PvP? AOE has never been viable in PvP since you can just move... you'd have to be clueless from the start to waste a slot on AOE in a PvP match. Unless you're talking about people bringing henches into the tombs, this post makes no sense to me.

Second, I don't want to think and strategize for two hours to make 500 gold and split it with my 8 party members. If I wanted a grind I have plenty of other games to choose from.

Okay so you obviously have never PvPed before because people DO bring firestorm and they DO randomly try to cast it on people. People DO cast empathy on monks and backfire on warriors and all this happens VERY often. The fact is people pick up these bad habits from PvE. Everyone is always complaining how they get stomped in tombs or they get stomped in GvG. Well this is a good start in improving the general abilities of everyone in the game so that both PvP and PvE are more fun for everyone.

Strategize for 2 hours?? We don't even strategize for 2 hours when we're doing GvG. If it takes you 2 hours to come up with a strategy to beat PvE mobs then I truly feel sorry for you. You no longer have to grind kill mass quantities of utterly incompetent PvE mobs and can instead actually feel a little pride when you take out a large group of mobs through using your brain.

Instead of people yelling for fire ele's, people are now gonna want a water ele with snares + a fire ele. That's all the adjustment needed. Meteor shower still knocks enemies down so you snare them then you meteor shower them and use firestorm on top of it.

If you don't feel like thinking in even the slightest then this probably isn't the game for you. There are plenty of other games out there where you can just click on your mouse button over and over to swing your sword 100 times until whatever you're attacking dies.

I just tested this out myself on my PvE ele and the enemies still stand in firestorm for a while before moving. I would say they are slightly slower than your average human player in moving out of AoE. If I used frozen burst -> meteor shower it would still hit them and they wouldn't be able to get out of the meteor shower. I followed up with lava font but you could glyph of sacrafice a fire storm then use lava font.

obastable · Nov 11, 2005, 06:57 PM // 18:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fantus

In the sense of the law, yes. You could also say that it's our game, since we paid for all its costs.

No, you can't say that at all. If you read the EULA and ToS for nearly every peice of software you've ever bought, it clearly points out that what you are buying is not the sofware itself but only an installation disc and license to use said software, so long as you abide by their aformentioned EULA and ToS.

Effectively, none of us "own" Guild Wars, we simply own the installation discs and a limited license to use them.

blueyoda · Nov 11, 2005, 06:58 PM // 18:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mordakai

The death of the Fire Elementalist has been greatly exaggerated.

Hint: Use different skills.

hint: go away - it's not just fire ele who have been wiped ... and why should we be forced to just "give up" spells that we've worked with for so long. Soon monks will have less healing power and you're gonna say, get more tanks. Don't fix what "ain't broken"

Sir Skullcrasher · Nov 11, 2005, 06:58 PM // 18:58

Like Lil Jon said.. "time to get crunk"

forget this game.. i'll going into the near-by bar and bust some heads!

Hopefully i can get some good drops!

Aracos79 · Nov 11, 2005, 07:02 PM // 19:02

Anyone else notice that Alex from NCSoft was just checking the thread out? Looks like they're at least taking notice of the community reaction.

Mordakai · Nov 11, 2005, 07:02 PM // 19:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by blueyoda

hint: go away - it's not just fire ele who have been wiped ... and why should we be forced to just "give up" spells that we've worked with for so long. Soon monks will have less healing power and you're gonna say, get more tanks. Don't fix what "ain't broken"

That's not what I'm saying at all... read my edited post.

Fire Eles can STILL do major damage and kill things... and isn't that the whole point?!?

Crusnik · Nov 11, 2005, 07:02 PM // 19:02

Oh My Freaking God !!!!!!! I just got back from UnderWorld to see what is does down there ! Those Freaking aatxe are like running away from u when u cast protection spirit while zealots fire is on !!!!!!! OMG a monster doing 250damage running away from a simple protection spirit or healing breeze !!!!!
A-NET THIS IS FREAKING INSANE !!!!!!! Playing Tag in Underworld !!!!!!!!!!

delfin42 · Nov 11, 2005, 07:03 PM // 19:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by sir skulkcrasher

If enemies can run around from AoE spells... why can't players out run spells like Crippling Anguish, or other stupid spells that slow you down!..

1) Crippling Anguish is a hex, not a targeted-area spell. You can't outrun that any more than the casting Mesmer could outrun your fire Ele's Immolate.

2) With the skill meter thingy from last month's update, you _can_ see when an Ice Golem et al. are about to cast Deep Freeze on someone in your party, and scatter accordingly.

CPU enemies are, of course, supernaturally gifted with respect to knowing which of them you're casting it on and how best to avoid its effects...

Quote:

Originally Posted by blueyoda

hint: go away - it's not just fire ele who have been wiped ... and why should we be forced to just "give up" spells that we've worked with for so long. Soon monks will have less healing power and you're gonna say, get more tanks. Don't fix what "ain't broken"

But the enemy AI _was_ broken, and had been broken for months.

You don't have to give up any spells. You _do_ have to use them more craftily. Teamwork will be necessary to get maximum benefit out of them (combining AoEs with teammates' snares and knockdown chains, for instance.)

Sir Skullcrasher · Nov 11, 2005, 07:05 PM // 19:05

YEAAAHHH!!

I got some gold chain.. hopefully i can sell it for 10k!

Back to the point... elementlist can still do damages but you have to remember from now on... no more AoE unless you like to chase your enemies around the map!

blueyoda · Nov 11, 2005, 07:05 PM // 19:05

but also read mine ... we shouldn't be forced to use different skills ... we're always using different skills as they come, and we find out which are best suited for different battles.

not just eliminate skills ~

ELE !! WHAT ARE YOU DOING ... Now they're all attacking the monk ... gah ... Time to rezone ~

GWGuru · Nov 11, 2005, 07:06 PM // 19:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by sir skulkcrasher

YEAAAHHH!!

I got some gold chain.. hopefully i can sell it for 10k!

Back to the point... elementlist can still do damages but you have to remember from now on... no more AoE unless you like to chase your enemies around the map!

omg...just use a snare first. Why is that so hard to understand?

WANWeaver · Nov 11, 2005, 07:06 PM // 19:06

Case in point....

A guildie and I make a run in SF. I was particularly interested to see how the new monsters and henches react to each other...

Within 3 minutes Little Thom is chasing dwarves to the EXTREMES of my radar-range and aggroing everthing in sight... More realistic? Definately... More intelligent? Not a chance....

I really feel bad for squishies is particular, because any AoE spells will scatter the monsters and cause them to refocus... Luring is more difficult and the concept of "tanking" is almost useless...

My friend and I reach an area where there were three bosses in SF, and I tried to apply the concept of "luring" to break apart the group. Low and behold, Cynn, our tank-elementalist runs through three groups trying to get to one monster. I manage to survive and attempt to "rebirth" everyone, TWO additional times in a row Cynn resurrects, runs past two groups trying to get to 1 dwarf, aggros everything and we die. We have three full rounds of this before I am throughly frustrated....

I wanted this type of behavior I would work with PuGs....

1) AoE scatters monsters - Henchies follow - Henchies Aggro
2) Aoe scatters henchies - Henchies Aggro

I don't farm, I'm not focused on smiting monks.... I simply use henches because I try to avoid some of the insanity that they cause.... Now the heches are worse that every "L33t D00d3" 12-year-old in the game.....

Fantus · Nov 11, 2005, 07:08 PM // 19:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by obastable

No, you can't say that at all. If you read the EULA and ToS for nearly every peice of software you've ever bought, it clearly points out that what you are buying is not the sofware itself but only an installation disc and license to use said software, so long as you abide by their aformentioned EULA and ToS.

Effectively, none of us "own" Guild Wars, we simply own the installation discs and a limited license to use them.

Read what I actually wrote, especially the funny sentence you QUOTED. Read it again SLOWLY. Try to comprehend what I wrote. Then post.