Curse

Akhilleus · Nov 14, 2005, 02:00 AM // 02:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by Scaper

STOP SAYING THEIR ARE OTHER GOOD BUILDS WHEN YOU CANNOT NAME ANY! Iv'e said this TIME AND TIME AGAIN! read my previous post!

i will, however, respond to this.
naming such an effective build would merely serve countermeasure to our argument; allowing all the people eagerly anticipating a new cookie-cutter build to be provided with one, and that will not happen on our account.
if you want to farm so badly, try and spend some of the time you are taking to complain, to instead create a build for yourself.

chippxero · Nov 14, 2005, 02:06 AM // 02:06

This website has a complete skills list, if people bothered to read through it they'd figure out builds a lot quicker, it's mostly people just looking for quick fixes without them having to do any work or research.

kareel · Nov 14, 2005, 03:06 AM // 03:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by Scaper

STOP SAYING THEIR ARE OTHER GOOD BUILDS WHEN YOU CANNOT NAME ANY! Iv'e said this TIME AND TIME AGAIN! read my previous post! THIS GOES DOUBLE FOR YOU AkHilleus and others who MAKE THIS SAME CLAIM!

And once again read MY LAST POST BEFORE THIS ONE YES! IS IT SO WRONG TO SHARE INFOMATION! WOW I did not know people could all have the same buidls IS THIS SO BAD!?cause apperently to all you hippcrits infomation shard is bad! What do you work for the F.B.I. or C.I.A. or something( THIS IS NOT FLAMING THIS IS FACT!) Cause the F.B.I. and C.I.A. don't seem to have their infomation sharing properly figured out either. And look how well they operate!

If you want to know this build really did to the monsters than read my last post! IT TURNED THEM INTO SPINNELESS EVIL MOSTERS! Which makes NO SENSE!

Sincerly, Scaper

So. Yeah. Builds... see, this isn't the builds FORUM... or the builds THREAD... or the builds TOPIC... where do you look to find the build I use, and other ones?

Right.

Next!

~ KDS

gamehater3 · Nov 14, 2005, 03:24 AM // 03:24

What This Patch Is Not Good And It Ruined Smiters And Spell Casters What Is The Sense Of The Patch. Making A Smiter Is Not Cheating In The Game Otherwise You Couldn't Do It. All The People Who Complain About Smiters Get Off Of Your Butt And Make One. What Caused The Ai Update In The Enemies Anyways Why Do That The Game Wasn't That Easy To Go Through In The First Place. If They Want To Make It Fair Make It So The Runners Can't Run Anymore That Is What Is Killing The Game Not Smiters Or Eles. When I See A Lvl 3 In The Desert I Know He Didn't Work His Character Here He Was Ran But That Is Ok To You . That Is Why The Game Is Easy Is Because Of Runners And Now Watch How Much Easier It Is Now For Them Because Of The Update. The Enemies Only Follow U For 5 Seconds. So Now Is The Time For All The Runners To Run Like Helll.

Sol_Vie · Nov 14, 2005, 03:27 AM // 03:27

Attempting to write in caps is unkind and unnecessary... The patch will be fixed if there's enough reasonable feedback...

Wessels · Nov 14, 2005, 03:44 AM // 03:44

that last comment is a bit over the top. I voted for the option saying I liked the ideas behind he patch ,just think it was/is implemented poorly - and that's an understatement . It's not so much the fact enemy mobs move out of harm's way which annoys me .After all : that is in fact "natural " behaviour .It is the WAY in which they do this .

I have seen on numerous occasions mobs scatter when anything resembling an attack hit them , scatter in all directions and then as a consequence pull in more enemies into the fray .What this does is that you can't have any strategic planning at all anymore ( because the direction and distance those mobs will move into is totally unpredictable ) .

In addition to this : there need to be very solid adjustments made for the classes affected most by this ( fire storm is pretty useless at 15 energy and the long recharge it has now, considering it has a 2 seconds effect post-patch ) , mainly smiters and fire-elementalists .

Main reason for me disliking it is the erratic behavior of mobs though . If there is no strategic planning possible anymore it has become a game of chance . Something I didn't expect at all and hopefully wasn't intended by Anet as well.

some clarification ( some confusion here apparently) : mobs DO move out of well of suffering ( necro) if at all possible . I tested this extensively with my necro and they do. On the other hand : henches do not stand in well of blood /power

They also can't grasp the fact they have to kill the necro ( in grenth's and SF : the gnasher) instead of the minions he produces . But this is minor to the point made earlier.

kareel · Nov 14, 2005, 03:52 AM // 03:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by gamehater3

What This Patch Is Not Good And It Ruined Smiters And Spell Casters What Is The Sense Of The Patch. Making A Smiter Is Not Cheating In The Game Otherwise You Couldn't Do It. All The People Who Complain About Smiters Get Off Of Your Butt And Make One. What Caused The Ai Update In The Enemies Anyways Why Do That The Game Wasn't That Easy To Go Through In The First Place. If They Want To Make It Fair Make It So The Runners Can't Run Anymore That Is What Is Killing The Game Not Smiters Or Eles. When I See A Lvl 3 In The Desert I Know He Didn't Work His Character Here He Was Ran But That Is Ok To You . That Is Why The Game Is Easy Is Because Of Runners And Now Watch How Much Easier It Is Now For Them Because Of The Update. The Enemies Only Follow U For 5 Seconds. So Now Is The Time For All The Runners To Run Like Helll.

Having a smiter is not cheating.
Running is OK by me, but not FOR me. Not like I can stop 'em.
Your Text Is Difficult To Read.
I do indeed enjoy a fair game.
I was not addressing smiters or nukers, merely one particular person's views.
Maybe running is easier now. I dunno.
Thanks for coming out.

~ KDS

Phades · Nov 14, 2005, 04:22 AM // 04:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by aron searle

No you are wrong, and your trying to change them to fit your view.

38% dont like it and wont accept
16% dont like it but will adapt
BUT THEY STILL DONT LIKE IT.

38+16=54%

thankyou

Good idea, but implemented poorly can also be twisted to mean that they dont like it as well. Any instance requiring change implies being unsatisfied with the situation. If you actually read what i wrote i stated that people who would dont like it, implying leading to quitting, versus

Quote:

Originally Posted by Phades

I see over 41% that admit something is wrong with the patch, but arent going to quit over it.

Being wholly satisfied with the patch is not the relevant issue. The relevant issue is, how many people will continue playing following this patch regardless of what happens. Assuming that the people who claim a "no compromise" situation will actually make good on their word and leave following the non-removal of the patch, the other body of players (the majority) is what is left behind.

If they do retract the patch and do not modifiy it at all, it is a worse situation as it becomes more of a loss of confidence in ANET to make any change or add content. This is basically to everyone who had an opinion on the current patch. The people who wanted no comprimise will be wary of anything released anyway, the people who thought something was wrong with it will be more likely to just give up at the next sign of a major issue like ch2 could bring (this happened in 2 other software franchises that i know of), and the people who liked it are likely to quit the next time people raise a fuss over a patch as its being molded to tailor to only their needs. Retracting it entirely is a no win situation and is not likely to happen.

DaedalusAlpha · Nov 14, 2005, 04:56 AM // 04:56

Ok... It's very very late here in Sweden but I just had to create an account to be able to air my opinion of this patch.

As I understand it the reason for this patch was to:
A) make enemies/npc:s respond more humanly to AoE spells (i.e. better AI)
B) try to fix some kind of economy problem connected to farming by making it harder for farmers to solo by making massive amounts of AoE damage
C) try to make PvP and PvE come closer to each other

In A) I can accept that perhaps the enemies are a bit stupid compared to real life humans when it comes to AoE for example (but hey... they aren't real life humans!). To run away from a fire or meteor storm seems like a smart thing to do (for a human). I could maybe even go as far as saying that the fire storm wasn't being made useless because now it's a good way of scattering enemies, for example to aid an attacked monk. But what seems stupid is that every class has like 10 "scattering" spells that all have different charging times, names and costs but regardless doesn't do anything more than scatters enemies. As an elementalist i find it rather sad to not be able to get that nice feeling of having nuked a bussload of enemies for my team when it was needed the most. I mean, if the enemies now are so smart why are they still allowed to be so many? To be ambushed by 10 scarabs and 3 devourers in the crystal desert is now a very lethal combination that takes very long time to survive... if you survive at all. I'm sure the enemies originally wasn't designed to be uber-smart, just to be uber-many, and it's just that that makes them so fun to kill. That is the balancing; many stupid enemies against a few smart humans. This just destroys that way of balancing.

I am just a normal player that enjoys doing all the missions with bonuses and to explore all areas, so I think it's rather mean to punish me for something that the farmers in B) is responsible for. I don't even see how this should help preventing the farming at all. I'm sure the farmers are smart people (hey, they have to be to survive something that I would never even try to get myself in even with full backup) so they will without a doubt quickly find a new build that makes them just as good at farming as they were before. I however that is not a regular GW guru has to totally re-think my poor elementalist to even be able to continue playing with him. I just want to blast away some enemies, don't spend one week in re-skilling and learning new builds.
There surely must be some smarter ways of stopping one-person-army-farmers. Like making sure that there aren't so many drops/good drops when one solos areas. I don't know, there must be dozens more ways that more "up to speed" persons can invent.

I personally does not think that C) is a good idea. What is wrong with two games for the price of one? If I want to get strategic against humans I choose PvP and if I want to kill mindless masses of enemies i choose PvE.

So finally what do I think?
A) Computer controlled enemies are not humans and should not act like such. They are cannon fodder and that is why we love them. This is a game and not reality, we play it because it's much more fun than reality. AoE should work as before no matter how "unnatural" it is.
B) I couldn't care less.
C) I think it works fine as it is. I haven't even got a PvP caracter and I expect a new game when I create my first. If it's now supposed to be so "seamless" why can't you use your PvE caracter in PvP or vice versa?

As said by people before me; don't fix what isn't broken, there must be so many other things that should be fixed instead, like pathing AI for one.

I am saying all this as a medium good player; and to all those really uber-good players out there: dont bitch on me, I don't know better. But I'm pretty sure there's a lot more like me than like you out there in the GW world and in that case we are the ones that really count. It would be wrong to make the game a lot harder just to satisfy the few uber-players that have grown tired of it.

Devil16 · Nov 14, 2005, 05:19 AM // 05:19

I agree that the update shoudl be taken back and worked out again. The two major issues with it are: the beefed up bosses and the AoE scatter the guys.

Some bosses were hard enough, but now are damn near immpossible to kill, ecspecially the Monk bosses! My ele has a fire ball that does 105 dmg. Againt lvl 28 Murssat it only does 19. Two, when guys become under the effect of AoE damage they start to run around. Thie makes them one harder and stupider rather than smarter.
Anothe rissue I foudn was with the Henchmen. They seemed to have lost AI. They no longe rlisten to my directions and atleast in the Iron Mine sof Muldane, even after I hav ebeen infused, seemed to be effect by Spectral Agony as a non-infused person woudl be.

This are the probelm I found

Shortyafter · Nov 14, 2005, 05:33 AM // 05:33

As others have said, I can't believe that people think that they've somehow ruined monks, eles, and warriors. You have to be very uncreative to even begin to think that. Not every monk is an invincimonk, you know.

AoE skills are not off-limits in PvP, and players run from them. You just need to use them correctly. A meteor shower on an IWAY group can be a devestating way to shut them down. Try a meteor shower on a group of melee monsters and watch the same effect.

Though I do think the AI's reaction is sometimes a bit dumb... Overall a good idea that can be improved a bit.

-------

On another note, there's been some discussion about running throughout the thread. Running is not easier because enemies stop following you. Wow, what half-assed runner doesn't bring a speed buff to get away anyway? Even now if you don't bring a speed buff, by the time they stop chasing you you'll be down to half HP and at the next mob.

In fact, the Droks run has been made even harder with this latest update. They added more worms.

At the start of the thread people were talking about runners and E-Bay? Runners don't make that much money, you know. The Invincimonks made lots of money too, I bet they were selling it on E-Bay. Out with the bias please.

A-Net has expressed support for runners on numerous occassions. They do not support solo farming. That is all.

By the way, the company Virgoods doesn't use runners. They use farmers.

Chev of Hardass · Nov 14, 2005, 05:45 AM // 05:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shortyafter

A-Net has expressed support for runners on numerous occassions. They do not support solo farming. That is all.

By the way, the company Virgoods doesn't use runners. They use farmers.

I wish I cared about what you think, then I would go get the quote on farming, and how they are not anti-farming. Hell, check FF#61 out. And to say that they support farming is wrong as well. They were aware of the Droknars run prior to release, they just don't try and stop it. Well, that is next.

I think they should make the game all about lockdown, no one is allowed to have any fun. You must now play every quest, and mission in order to progress, and you cannot leave an area till you have purchased everything the merchant has to offer.

Shortyafter · Nov 14, 2005, 05:53 AM // 05:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chev of Hardass

and how they are not anti-farming.

Actually:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gaile Gray

And come on, guys, no one should be soloing the Underworld! It makes no sense at all, and we know it and we accept full responsibility for the fact that it was possible when it never should have been.

They clearly do not support solo farming.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chev of Hardass

They were aware of the Droknars run prior to release, they just don't try and stop it.

With the SF update they seriously cracked down on it by adding nasty hexes and cripples. With the latest update they added more worms. Before these updates anyone could run Forge with the right skills. Right now anyone who can still run Forge deserves the money they're making. (I have tried Forge runs, I can't do them, so I have a right to say that)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chev of Hardass

I think they should make the game all about lockdown, no one is allowed to have any fun. You must now play every quest, and mission in order to progress, and you cannot leave an area till you have purchased everything the merchant has to offer.

I really don't get what's so 'fun' about solo farming. If the only reason you play Guild Wars is to solo farm, well, I won't say it...

Chev of Hardass · Nov 14, 2005, 06:05 AM // 06:05

Next time, quote me correctly.

Gaile was clearly talking about the Underworld, not; Riverside, Augry Rock, Kryta, Talas Chute....

I PvP in this game, if I could not have farmed my unlocks, and skill points, it would have taken me hundreds of hours longer to fully unlock my account.

I am trying to look out for all of the new players that want to use PvE to unlock things for PvP.

And yes, attempting to take on as many Melee characters as humanly possible is fun. I would not call it the most fun this game has to offer, or had to offer, but a good way to kill 15 minutes.

calamitykell · Nov 14, 2005, 06:09 AM // 06:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chev of Hardass

Next time, quote me correctly.

Gaile was clearly talking about the Underworld, not; Riverside, Augry Rock, Kryta, Talas Chute....

Nothing illogical about a level 20 monk soloing 20 level 22 or 24 creatures at once?

Chev of Hardass · Nov 14, 2005, 06:13 AM // 06:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by calamitykell

Nothing illogical about a level 20 monk soloing 20 level 22 or 24 creatures at once?

Anything logical about creating a build based on EoE and a team commiting suicide to win games in Tombs?

calamitykell · Nov 14, 2005, 06:19 AM // 06:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chev of Hardass

Anything logical about creating a build based on EoE and a team commiting suicide to win games in Tombs?

Ok, so ANet doesn't want you farming Underworld, but they want you farming the entire desert?

Chev of Hardass · Nov 14, 2005, 06:55 AM // 06:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by calamitykell

Ok, so ANet doesn't want you farming Underworld, but they want you farming the entire desert?

Taken from FF#61

Quote:

a group of players can find ways to earn gold ten times as fast as the average player. In this case, prices can rise to a level where normal players can’t afford to trade for items anymore. Then we have a problem,

OK, *gets out chalk board

-The Underworld is "High-End" PvE, it requires Ascention to even enter.

-When you go through Augry Rock the first time, if you play the game through, you will be about level 17 (or less), and in no way ready to farm the entire desert. That means that you are going back on your ability and are therefore should be able to kill them easier. The reason that some of the MOBs in the game are level 28-30, is to make up for AI and it's inability to provide challenge without a boost, so taking on level 20-22 MOBs is not that big of a deal.

-Augry Rock is full of Minatour, Rockshot Devourers, and Desert Griffons. All of them are physical damage. The Rockshots require special attention while farming, but some human intelligence can beat artificial intelligence. This area is hardly fun for a team of level 20 ascended characters to go and clear. Hence the use of going back and taking on several at a time.

-The Underworld drops very rare things and has skill quests of huge reward. Do I need to imagine how many Ecto a player can get in one day? You can even get a level 20 pet there

It costs 1 plat to enter and, playing a balanced type build, requires teamwork.

-Drops in Augry Rock, are for the most part completely useless. Only one in ~50 of the rare drops are worth taking to town to sell to humans, and perhaps 1 in 7 runs drops a rare. I would estimate that farming in Augry Rock, the fast and fun way nets 1-1.5 plat a run. Augry Rock can yeild PvP unlocks. I don't see how unlocking things could hurt the PvE world.

Quote:

a group of players can find ways to earn gold ten times as fast as the average player. In this case, prices can rise to a level where normal players can’t afford to trade for items anymore. Then we have a problem,

I will now rondomly bring up the day the traders reset and A.Net allowed everyone that was around with money to purchase Ecto, Superior Vigor, Ect for 100 gold each.

Yes mistakes are made, must this be another one?

mocax · Nov 14, 2005, 07:11 AM // 07:11

I think it's a nice update to some extent, give my henchmen breather space when my aoe spells scatter the mob.

Now.... if ANet can make henchmen smart enough to NOT WALK INTO hazard areas

Feminist Terrorist · Nov 14, 2005, 09:28 AM // 09:28

Forgive my ignorance, but what is UAS? There are a lot of acronyms being thrown around, and not everyone understands what they are.

What is EoE?