Curse

Shimus DarkRaven · Nov 21, 2005, 08:10 PM // 20:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by AncientPC

While I agree that DF run takes skill, it's not that hard. There are more difficult runs out there.

Agree. But it does still take a moderate amount to skill not to die at least once. =)

--The Shim

Cjlr · Nov 21, 2005, 09:05 PM // 21:05

I don't see what the deal with running is. I'm a lazy bastard, and I'm not going to do the same thing multiple times over if I don't enjoy it. If someone else wants to profit from my sloth, go ahead. We both win.

lord_shar · Nov 21, 2005, 09:23 PM // 21:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by sybban

Wow, you sound like a self help tape. Running breeds retards in end game, you can't argue with that. No matter how you try to doctor it up, it breeds idiots. I spaced it out so you could see it clearer. Now listen very carefully to what I;m about to say:
You, and all your kind...still with me?...are what's wrong with mmo's. Tracking? I hope so.

My sole point was that running (not being runned) does require skill. Based on your reply, I think you missed that part.

No one is contesting that being runned deprives you of game content which can better build PvE skills. However, if that same player already went through that same game content with a previous character and wants no part of the content AGAIN, then he's free to pay a runner to bypass the same rehashed material. If the person playing hasn't already covered the area being runned, then they are only shorting themselves long term.

I'm happy that GW does provide non-linear game routes. Choice -- it's good for the soul.

Pandora's box · Nov 21, 2005, 11:26 PM // 23:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by lord_shar

My sole point was that running (not being runned) does require skill. Based on your reply, I think you missed that part.

No one is contesting that being runned deprives you of game content which can better build PvE skills. However, if that same player already went through that same game content with a previous character and wants no part of the content AGAIN, then he's free to pay a runner to bypass the same rehashed material. If the person playing hasn't already covered the area being runned, then they are only shorting themselves long term.

I'm happy that GW does provide non-linear game routes. Choice -- it's good for the soul.

Agreed. A good runner has several builds for differend situations. It takes skills and practice to do it correctly.

Games like this need runners. Someone who is playing for the first time will enjoy every new part of the map. The 2nd time you like to skip some areas. the 3rth time... Most want to go as fast as they can to ascencion. No problem

Dax · Nov 22, 2005, 02:08 AM // 02:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pandora's box

Games like this need runners. Someone who is playing for the first time will enjoy every new part of the map. The 2nd time you like to skip some areas. the 3rth time... Most want to go as fast as they can to ascencion. No problem

??? Hrmm if the game is that good, surely you don't mind doing it over again.

To me the dragging people through is more of a acceptable exploit than anything else. I can see the argument if a character is level 18-20 needing help getting through but when you see lowbies begging to get run, yea that's not my idea of a good game situation.

But this is all off topic I guess. If I was a runner I'd do if for free just to piss people who charge off...sorry. Gold isn't that important in the game and as far as I can tell doing stuff for free isn't breaking any rules.

sybban · Nov 22, 2005, 04:24 AM // 04:24

No I completely disagree. The game has no need for runner. The valid part of you argument was that people don't feel like running through the 2nd or 3rd time. But that is exactly when they should be doing it. They didn't know anything the first time but now they can actually do stuff without having to ask a million questions. I mean hell I didn't have the balls to try the whole game solo until my 5th character. I brought people in groups a couple times for certain missions but other than that I fought or ran my way to every single spot on the map.

*ONLY* time is acceptable- Among guild members or friends.

Not someguy who is too lame to farm. There's people sitting in asaclon offering runs to yak's bend. That, my friends, is why you have the game full of arrogant monks and brain dead W/Mo.

In fact in my opinion, you shouldn't even be allowed in the end game until you have beaten PvE atleast 4 times, and that's being generous considering I would rather it be 6 or 7 times.

But no, you have mister lame warrior or ranger trying to make money cheating for people rather than going out and earning it.

Look even if you don't agree with me, you are still wrong. Running is cheap and should be frowned upon. It's like being powerleveled since it's the closest thing to advancement in the game.

Solaris · Nov 22, 2005, 11:21 AM // 11:21

Sybban I agree with you completely!
I take my characters every where without running them and I enjoy every moment.
The first and only time I joined a runner from Beakon's Perch he asked to be paid all 3K at Lonar Pass with the excuse he didn't trust us or he wouldn't take us to Droknar's Forge and all of us being noobs paid up!

You know what happened after don't you? He left the game!

I will never trust a runner again and I'll go every where by myself!

Beside this is a beautiful game to be enjoied not a trading post!

Xenrath · Nov 22, 2005, 11:30 AM // 11:30

I dunno, some of the jungle missions (imho) are really really tedious and if you've already done them why shouldn't you get your other characters run through to the more interesting places, or to where-ever you need for skills etc.

aron searle · Nov 22, 2005, 11:38 AM // 11:38

Quote:

Sybban I agree with you completely!
I take my characters every where without running them and I enjoy every moment.
The first and only time I joined a runner from Beakon's Perch he asked to be paid all 3K at Lonar Pass with the excuse he didn't trust us or he wouldn't take us to Droknar's Forge and all of us being noobs paid up! You know what happened after don't you? He left the game!
I will never trust a runner again and I'll go every where by myself!

Sorry but scammers and runners are not the same thing, dont assiociate them because you let yourself get scammed like that.

Quote:

In fact in my opinion, you shouldn't even be allowed in the end game until you have beaten PvE atleast 4 times, and that's being generous considering I would rather it be 6 or 7 times.

Sorry load of tosh, most people would just not bother.

and exactly how does running affect you other than droks in low arenas?

Whats wrong with letting people play it how they like to, rather than how YOU say it should be played.

If you honestly think people are rubbish at the game because they have been run you are wrong, people are rubbish because they dont take the time to develop there skill, that has nothing to do with being run on some missions (And this refers to people that have already done it and are running a 2nd characher which is the majority of runees).

Quote:

Look even if you don't agree with me, you are still wrong. Running is cheap and should be frowned upon. It's like being powerleveled since it's the closest thing to advancement in the game.

Seeming as your so against it give me ONE good reason why it affects you other than twinkers?

lg5000 · Nov 22, 2005, 12:29 PM // 12:29

one good reason OTHER than twinkers (who can be annoying but fun to kill) would be the people who seem to think this game needs to be run.

I'm not talking about the ones who've played pve for a while and are on their second char or so, even on their first, but past LA, I'm talking about the ones who get to beacons and believe that the next stop is droknars via a runner, because... everyone is advertising runs.

Easy way to stop that: Ask your client how many pve chars they have; Advertise the run in the Trade Chanel.

Omega_2005 · Nov 22, 2005, 12:44 PM // 12:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by lg5000

Easy way to stop that: Ask your client how many pve chars they have; Advertise the run in the Trade Chanel.

There is a big major problem with that, either thay'll go "stfu go to Talk channel noob" or REPORT you for doing so... It's the truth, and it really annoys us getting a good party

aron searle · Nov 22, 2005, 01:44 PM // 13:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by lg5000

one good reason OTHER than twinkers (who can be annoying but fun to kill) would be the people who seem to think this game needs to be run.

I'm not talking about the ones who've played pve for a while and are on their second char or so, even on their first, but past LA, I'm talking about the ones who get to beacons and believe that the next stop is droknars via a runner, because... everyone is advertising runs.

Easy way to stop that: Ask your client how many pve chars they have; Advertise the run in the Trade Chanel.

Sorry but i said a reason why it affects you, not themselves. Anyone must realise that getting run to drokners is not for your first game, but they do it anyway as they want the easy option.

Some of them then run about droks going whaaaaaaaaaa wadda i do. Well they bugger it up for themselves by being lazy.

Quote:

There is a big major problem with that, either thay'll go "stfu go to Talk channel noob" or REPORT you for doing so... It's the truth, and it really annoys us getting a good party

Which also illistrates the players are a problem not the running itself.

*****

as to why i support running.......

I got my monk run to droks (no i dont do the arenas, and i wouldnt take droks there anyway). The reason being that the jungle missions bore me as they are too easy, so i wanted them done with asap and droks armour helps.

You may not agree and would prefere to play them without droks, and i respect that, you also must respect that i am not you and dont like the same things.

I wanted to get to the desert missions where it actually starts to become challenging, I enjoy missions like thirsty river where teamplay is required to complete it, all the missions before the desert bar a handfull are just far to easy and only require a "hit it till it dies" mentality. (of course tactics help, but the point is they are not needed).

Solaris · Nov 22, 2005, 03:05 PM // 15:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by aron searle

Sorry but scammers and runners are not the same thing, dont associate them because you let yourself get scammed like that.

Excuse my ignorance but how do you know which one is which?

Beside I didn't let myself get scammed did you think I knew he was about to defraud/cheat us? When players advertise for runs you don't know if they are honest I used to believe they were ... not anymore.

Slimcea · Nov 22, 2005, 03:16 PM // 15:16

Playing through the game for the 3rd or 4th time gets really tedious and REALLY encourages running. Reasons?

Firstly, other than skill quests, all the other quest rewards are crap, which makes them pointless.

Secondly, enemies in the region are all the same, after your first 4 to 5 successful fights, you know exactly what tactics you need, what movement patterns / skill combinations the enemy is going to execute. Even with the so-called AoE update, it doesn't take more than an hour within a new region before you can kill just about everything half-asleep with henchies.

Also, there are way too many huge group of enemies in numbers that don't make sense. They're either incredibly densely packed (Southern Shiverpeaks) or pop-up annoyingly out of the ground (Magumma). If all I want is to get somewhere, but for every minute I travel I spend 5 fighting, isn't that pointless?

Lastly, there's zero incentive for exploring new areas - the enemies again are the same, the scenery similar, no storyline exploration to be had. It makes zero sense to explore say from Druid's Overlook to ToA.

aron searle · Nov 22, 2005, 03:21 PM // 15:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by Solaris

Excuse my ignorance but how do you know which one is which?

Beside I didn't let myself get scammed did you think I knew he was about to defraud/cheat us? When players advertise for runs you don't know if they are honest I used to believe they were ... not anymore.

Ok this may sound harsh but you did let yourself get scammed, you didnt have to give him the money just because he said he didnt trust you.

he was a scammer not a runner, you called him a runner. I do not think its fair to other runners to call him one too, real runners provide a service for money.

Now it sucks you got scammed and i am not calling you stupid and its not your fault but the scammers, but your partly responsible for trusting him.

A good runner will say something like, give me half the money half way there and the rest when we arrive.

A scammer will ask for money befor delivering the service

thats how you tell the difference.

Dax · Nov 22, 2005, 04:02 PM // 16:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by aron searle

and exactly how does running affect you other than droks in low arenas?

<off topic rant>

Well for me....

-Annoying people spamming the chat channels

-Inexperienced players in higher levels

-Creates the impression for new players they need to rush through to play properly

-Perpetuates the need for large amounts of money, which in turn facilitates people doing unethical things (buying gold on ebay, ect.)

- Most importantly, make people complain in forums that they are bored because rather than play the game through the felt the need to rush through and get all the cool stuff first.

I'm sorry if the game is so flippin great why do you get so bored playing the game through a second or third time? It's not like we gotta catch up to in a hurry because Chapter 2 is coming out this weekend or anything. I don't care how little time a person has to play, the game isn't that hard.

Like I said if someone close to 20 needs some help I understand, but the rest of the arguments just don't wash. No one really needs the armor right away.

</off topic rant>

aron searle · Nov 22, 2005, 04:19 PM // 16:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dax

<off topic rant>

Well for me....

-Annoying people spamming the chat channels

really dont know what to say to that

Quote:

-Inexperienced players in higher levels

a problem casued by bad players not running

Quote:

-Creates the impression for new players they need to rush through to play properly

Funny that i didnt get that impression and all i saw in beacons when i got there was "runner to droks" ect ect.

Quote:

-Perpetuates the need for large amounts of money, which in turn facilitates people doing unethical things (buying gold on ebay, ect.)

so now ebay gold is the fault of runners, sorry but utter rubbish.

Quote:

- Most importantly, make people complain in forums that they are bored because rather than play the game through the felt the need to rush through and get all the cool stuff first.

thats just your personal opionon and i feel its a pile of tosh, like the ebay comment.

So please try again and give me ONE good reason how it actually affects you rather than just annoys you for no good reason.

Dax · Nov 22, 2005, 04:33 PM // 16:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by aron searle

thats just your personal opionon and i feel its a pile of tosh, like the ebay comment.

So please try again and give me ONE good reason how it actually affects you rather than just annoys you for no good reason.

Evidently that's just not MY personal opinion, alot of other people feel that way.

I just gave you a few, I have a feeling no matter what I say you'll say it's "tosh" but whatever.... you are right that I can easily ignore it and play my own game, but you reap what you sew my friend. If that's the game you want to play, that's the game you'll get
...a very shallow game.

lord_shar · Nov 22, 2005, 07:05 PM // 19:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dax

??? Hrmm if the game is that good, surely you don't mind doing it over again.

The problem isn't that the game isn't good -- the problem is that the game's content is static. No more surprises, nothing new to explore... there's a reason why people tire of the same material the second or third time around.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dax

To me the dragging people through is more of a acceptable exploit than anything else. I can see the argument if a character is level 18-20 needing help getting through but when you see lowbies begging to get run, yea that's not my idea of a good game situation.

But this is all off topic I guess. If I was a runner I'd do if for free just to piss people who charge off...sorry. Gold isn't that important in the game and as far as I can tell doing stuff for free isn't breaking any rules.

Time is a finite resource... you get only so much of it each day. If you wish to run people for zero profit just to undercut profit-based runners, then that's perfectly fine. That's the beauty of a non-linear game. Frankly, I have better things to do in game, like make an occasional Droks run for platinum, or better yet, UW ecto-farming

lord_shar · Nov 22, 2005, 07:13 PM // 19:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by sybban

No I completely disagree. The game has no need for runner. The valid part of you argument was that people don't feel like running through the 2nd or 3rd time. But that is exactly when they should be doing it. They didn't know anything the first time but now they can actually do stuff without having to ask a million questions. I mean hell I didn't have the balls to try the whole game solo until my 5th character. I brought people in groups a couple times for certain missions but other than that I fought or ran my way to every single spot on the map.

*ONLY* time is acceptable- Among guild members or friends.

Not someguy who is too lame to farm. There's people sitting in asaclon offering runs to yak's bend. That, my friends, is why you have the game full of arrogant monks and brain dead W/Mo.

In fact in my opinion, you shouldn't even be allowed in the end game until you have beaten PvE atleast 4 times, and that's being generous considering I would rather it be 6 or 7 times.

But no, you have mister lame warrior or ranger trying to make money cheating for people rather than going out and earning it.

Look even if you don't agree with me, you are still wrong. Running is cheap and should be frowned upon. It's like being powerleveled since it's the closest thing to advancement in the game.

The problem with this mentality is that people enjoy the game for reasons other than plowing through the official game content. It's not up to us to impose our gaming beliefs upon others. GW provides a 3D virtual world, and it's up to the individual to utilize its contents as they see fit, so long as it doesnt violate the EULA.

Profit-runners wouldn't exist if there wasn't a need for what they supply: quick transportation to other parts of the GW world. Other successful MMORPG's originally had teleportation-based characters charging gold to quickly span continents -- why shouldn't GW have something similar?

We don't need a one-dimensional / linear game, nor do we need an in-game thought police.