Curse

Bartdude · Dec 07, 2005, 03:52 PM // 15:52

just wanted to make every1 aware of a scammer useing deldrimor war camp european district english-1 to scam people into buying malions shield for 65k or less and making a switch for a gold aegis when u submit the money. i know i was duped :/

the name of this char is [REMOVED BY FROG]

i've made an official complaint including screenshots of the transaction but i didn't want to see ne1 else get duped while plaync look into it. i've just been back online and he's still there trying it on.

EDIT BY FROG: Next time read the forum rules.

Arya Nibelrund · Dec 07, 2005, 03:59 PM // 15:59

I think you cannot post other people's name without their authorization; you better edit your post before mods take actions about it.
Although i appreciate scammer reports it's against privacy; ask him the permission to have his name posted on here i'm sure he will agree!

Mordakai · Dec 07, 2005, 04:08 PM // 16:08

God, I hate scammers. I wish GW would place a lock feature on trades. You submit an item, then lock it. They submit a price then lock it.

THEN you can hit agree. That way nobody can switch items or gold, and then change it last minute.

(You could still change gold and items before the "lock." But, you couldn't agree to trade until after the lock).

Damon Windwalker · Dec 07, 2005, 04:15 PM // 16:15

Erm...isn't that the way it works now?

This is another "bait and switch" - always, always, ALWAYS mouse over the items that are being offered to make sure they are what they are supposed to be....

Sorry - but there's enough checks and balances in place that there's no excuse to get duped in a trade like that.... I'm not saying that it's right for people to do - but on the other hand, if you don't make sure you're getting what you pay for, the fault is your own.

Mordakai · Dec 07, 2005, 04:27 PM // 16:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by Damon Windwalker

Erm...isn't that the way it works now?

This is another "bait and switch" - always, always, ALWAYS mouse over the items that are being offered to make sure they are what they are supposed to be....

Sorry - but there's enough checks and balances in place that there's no excuse to get duped in a trade like that.... I'm not saying that it's right for people to do - but on the other hand, if you don't make sure you're getting what you pay for, the fault is your own.

IMO, there is obviously NOT enough checks and balances, because people keep getting scammed!

In my case, I sold 2 Black Dye for 16 Plat. But right when I hit accept, he changed it do 16 Gold.

Did I press accept too quickly? Yes. But why not have a "lock" feature in place to stop this easy scam?

Valerius · Dec 07, 2005, 04:29 PM // 16:29

if they change their trade u have to re-submit... if u re-submit without looking over the items... it's ur fault

FrogDevourer · Dec 07, 2005, 04:31 PM // 16:31

Whatever the trading system scammers will always find gullible targets.
Casinos for the win!

To the OP: I'm sorry for your loss/scam, but reporting the guy's name in this thread is pointless and against the forum rules.

Mordakai · Dec 07, 2005, 04:34 PM // 16:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by Valerius

if they change their trade u have to re-submit... if u re-submit without looking over the items... it's ur fault

Sorry, Valerius, but it's not that simple. I don't have to re-submit, only he does, and he can do it without any warning!

Like I said, I placed my Dye and hit accept (he already had the 16k out there). Between me placing my dye and hitting accept, he changed the Plat to Gold.

I didn't know he could change the gold that quickly. Now I do, and I wait a few seconds before hitting accept.

But it seems to me that it's a glitch in the system. If you change gold or items (the deal of the trade), there should be another step before you can accept the trade. (For example, I would have to resubmit my end of the trade as well). This is won't take any more time (one more button to click) and will help prevent the bait and switch scam! It's basically a red flag the the trade has been altered....

ozz · Dec 07, 2005, 04:43 PM // 16:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bartdude

just wanted to make every1 aware of a scammer useing deldrimor war camp european district english-1 to scam people into buying malions shield for 65k or less and making a switch for a gold aegis when u submit the money. i know i was duped :/

the name of this char is [REMOVED BY FROG]

i've made an official complaint including screenshots of the transaction but i didn't want to see ne1 else get duped while plaync look into it. i've just been back online and he's still there trying it on.

EDIT BY FROG: Next time read the forum rules.

I am certain ArenaNet/NCSoft developed the trade system procedures for a specific reason. The trade system was inherently developed with specific safeguards in place. The player you trade with can not make any changes upon submitting the trade. They have to modify the trade and you will be informed of that in the trade window. Even if the player attempts to modify the amount of gold, you will be notified in the trade window.

This trading system is entirely intuitive and easy to understand. Trades can not be modified past submission. If you see a player modifying the trade, do not accept. Wait for the player to submit the agreed upon item(s) and/or gold. If a modification takes place, do not accept. If, after accepting, the player cancels and modifiys, hit cancel and close the trade.

Once again, the trade system AreaNet/NCSoft developed was intended to be intuitive and easy to understand. Follow these procedures:

Paragraph A.

Initiate trade with player

Paragraph B.

Offer item(s) and/or gold

Paragraph C.

Submit them for trading

Paragraph D.

Upon examining the trade, only accept when integrity of trade is verified

Paragraph E.

If player cancels and modifies trade, cancel trade back to submission

Paragraph F.

Inquire as to why player has made change

Paragraph G.

If appearance of attempt to defraud, cancel trade entirely, carry on.

Sub-Paragraph 1.

There is no way items can be scammed if you follow these directions

Sub-Paragraph 2.

NEVER ACCEPT until verification has been made of trade integrity

Sub-Paragraph 3.

If the trade is verified and there is a modification, immediately cancel the trade entirely

Notes:

It takes time for a player to clear out the original trade and insert a bogus one. It can be observed and noticed. Cancel trade immediately.

When I read of so many people getting scammed, I laugh. What were they doing during the trade they would give 65 plat for an Aeigis...it is mind boggling.

Protect yourself during a trade. Perhaps to even make it easier for a player to trade, there can be a trust factor implemented. Similar to the voting scheme suggested http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/s...=69723&page=27

chippxero · Dec 07, 2005, 04:44 PM // 16:44

I'm sorry that people ge scammed like this but it's pretty simple if your paying attention to the trade.

Someone tried this with me when i was selling brohn's staff switching to 100g i just 'typed lol and cancelled the trade'.

The only time you'll get scammed is if you arn't checking things or reading the money amount properly.

ozz · Dec 07, 2005, 04:46 PM // 16:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mordakai

God, I hate scammers. I wish GW would place a lock feature on trades. You submit an item, then lock it. They submit a price then lock it.

THEN you can hit agree. That way nobody can switch items or gold, and then change it last minute.

(You could still change gold and items before the "lock." But, you couldn't agree to trade until after the lock).

The trade system already does that. Only way a player can be scammed is if they allow the trade to be changed while the player accepts.

The player is also notified of the modification and can observe the change so long as the defrauder hit modify, then submit, then accept.

I just can not understand how someone can be frauded like this.

Mordakai · Dec 07, 2005, 04:48 PM // 16:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by ozz

If player cancels and modifies trade, cancel trade back to submission

Well, duh, IF YOU NOTICE the modified trade!

The fact is, a player can switch his end of the deal without notice.

I did not have to re-submit my end, I just had to hit accept, and I was screwed.

You basically have to wait a few seconds before you accept, and hope he doesn't get lucky and change the deal on you last second as you "Accept". (which is theoretically possible).

Mordakai · Dec 07, 2005, 04:56 PM // 16:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by ozz

The trade system already does that. Only way a player can be scammed is if they allow the trade to be changed while the player accepts.

The player is also notified of the modification and can observe the change so long as the defrauder hit modify, then submit, then accept.

I just can not understand how someone can be frauded like this.

Well, I can tell you.

I hit accept right after I submitted the items. If there was a "Notice", it didn't do me any good, b/c I had already hit accept!

I mean, this happened in like a split second. I saw the Plat change to Gold right as I clicked accept. I literally did not have time to stop it.

If someone times this right, you cannot prevent this from happening. Sure, it will be very hard to pull this off if someone waits before hitting accept. But if I was a scammer, and just changed this stuff all the time, I'm sure eventually I would get lucky, and manage to change the deal while someone was accepting it.

In any case, why are people against a "Resubmit" phase? I just makes common sense, esp. since the trade has been altered.

Yichi · Dec 07, 2005, 04:58 PM // 16:58

Better idea for the future. make him hit accept first. then as soon as you hit accept, the trade goes through

ozz · Dec 07, 2005, 04:59 PM // 16:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mordakai

But it seems to me that it's a glitch in the system. If you change gold or items (the deal of the trade), there should be another step before you can accept the trade. (For example, I would have to resubmit my end of the trade as well). This is won't take any more time (one more button to click) and will help prevent the bait and switch scam! It's basically a red flag the the trade has been altered....

This is incorrect. Fact is you do not accept trade until you verify the contents of the agreement. Once I submit the Dye and wait for the the gold to be submitted, so long as there is not a modifcation before I accept, I will never be scammed and have never been.

Attempts have been made to scam me but there is no way u can change the trade while I am watching it. I am notified of any changes right there in the trade. If I am trading for an Inspired Staff and the player is offering me gold, I will wait till the gold is there. Because I have to submit the trade first, the trader verifies the item. Once I hit accept, if there is an attempt to change the trade, I hit cancel becuase I see this dummy is about to scam me. Trust me noone is that fast they can change the gold from 10 plat to 10 gold and then hit accept immediately unless you simply hit accept and are not paying attention. AGAIN, IT TAKES TIME FOR THEM TO MODIFY THE TRADE!!! You will observe this and can simply hit cancel taking you back to submission page. If you have to even hover your mouse over cancel, do it once you accept the trade. Any change notified, click and the scammer is thwarted.

The trader has no clue you accepted the trade and is hoping u do blind accepts. That is the beauty of the system. You control the trade. If you submit and then wait to see what happens, you will be safer. I traded a nub before and hit sumbit only. He submitted then modified immediately. I waited and he put the right amount of gold there. It was only after he whispered me and I confirmed the trade did I accept.

You have to protect yourself. Do not blind accept anyone. Wait for them to whisper you as to why you have not accepted. Only then will you be assured they want to trade. It also adds more delay to thwe process. If it is cancelled, find another trader.

ozz · Dec 07, 2005, 05:15 PM // 17:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mordakai

Well, I can tell you.

I hit accept right after I submitted the items. If there was a "Notice", it didn't do me any good, b/c I had already hit accept!

I mean, this happened in like a split second. I saw the Plat change to Gold right as I clicked accept. I literally did not have time to stop it.

If someone times this right, you cannot prevent this from happening. Sure, it will be very hard to pull this off if someone waits before hitting accept. But if I was a scammer, and just changed this stuff all the time, I'm sure eventually I would get lucky, and manage to change the deal while someone was accepting it.

In any case, why are people against a "Resubmit" phase? I just makes common sense, esp. since the trade has been altered.

That is because you blind accept trades without thinking. You have to assume everyone is a crook. Therefore, until I see stability in the trade, I will not accept. Stability is I am paying you 15 plat for a Max Damge Gold Fellblade. If I see changes in that trade over a 15 second period I wil not hit accept.

I will make you wait intentionally to determine if you are a scammer. I don't care if it is taking too long cause see I can get anyone to pay my price for the item I have or sell to anyone. I don't need the trader, they need me. Therefore, if I am satisfied, then I accept.

Also, play games with the trader. Tell em you hit accept and are going to bathroom, feel free to accept trade, I will brb. Then sit there and watch the amount of gold change, the item change, and laugh while u cancel trade and report them to Anet.

It is up to you to protect yourself. Anet/NCSoft put the trade in the game and all you have to do is think before you hit accept. Never trust anyone.

Sir Skullcrasher · Dec 07, 2005, 05:19 PM // 17:19

I nearly got scammed before. When i used to have Malinon's Shield. I try to find a buyer in game. I was in war camp and advertising "WTS Malinon' Shield" and someone pm me with 90k offer. So i say sure and took the trade. All the time, the guy keep pming me with the sentence "COME.. hurray up i got to go" So i open a trade with him, put up my shield, the gold put up 90 gold... good think i look so i laugh it off at him. His reply was "Sorry... in a hurray" Than second time, he did the same thing with 90 gold. Than i cancel the trade.

Don't hurray through a trade, look before trading anything expensive to save you from scammers.

Speaking of looking before trading. I got a Razorstone last night for 80k. Before the deal is done, the guy put up the axe and told me to put up my money first. Than i did so with 80k, he told me to accept trade first than he will do the same. So i did and got Razorstone. I guess these are the type of security measure that is needed to combat these scammers.

ozz · Dec 07, 2005, 05:22 PM // 17:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mordakai

Well, duh, IF YOU NOTICE the modified trade!

The fact is, a player can switch his end of the deal without notice.

I did not have to re-submit my end, I just had to hit accept, and I was screwed.

You basically have to wait a few seconds before you accept, and hope he doesn't get lucky and change the deal on you last second as you "Accept". (which is theoretically possible).

READ: The amount of gold or the item will change because the player trading has to back out of submission to modify and then resubmit. That takes time and will definitely be noticed.

kenpo goddess · Dec 07, 2005, 05:22 PM // 17:22

I have never been scammed...i am always cautious about scammers. An they are pretty obvious too. You can find signs of scammers, an cheap skates alike. They will always try to down grade what you are selling too. I had someone try an call em scammer once. an i was truly upset. I have bad lag issues when trade window opens. so when I was viewing an item i wanted to close my inventory winow..apparently i hit accept. So this person right away began telling everyone i was a scammer a for no one to buy from me. it really set me back while trying to sell dyes.

ozz · Dec 07, 2005, 05:34 PM // 17:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by sir skulkcrasher

I nearly got scammed before. When i used to have Malinon's Shield. I try to find a buyer in game. I was in war camp and advertising "WTS Malinon' Shield" and someone pm me with 90k offer. So i say sure and took the trade. All the time, the guy keep pming me with the sentence "COME.. hurray up i got to go" So i open a trade with him, put up my shield, the gold put up 90 gold... good think i look so i laugh it off at him. His reply was "Sorry... in a hurray" Than second time, he did the same thing with 90 gold. Than i cancel the trade.

Don't hurray through a trade, look before trading anything expensive to save you from scammers.

Speaking of looking before trading. I got a Razorstone last night for 80k. Before the deal is done, the guy put up the axe and told me to put up my money first. Than i did so with 80k, he told me to accept trade first than he will do the same. So i did and got Razorstone. I guess these are the type of security measure that is needed to combat these scammers.

Sir Skullcrasher, you are a scholar and gentleman. Wonderful experience you can relate here. Absolutely that trader was hopin that by rushing the trade, you would be so kind to oblige and trade quickly. You would put your shield in, submite, and accept in a matter of time slower then he would. Trader already had the scam set and was ready for the bait. All you needed to do was accept and boom, lost shield.