Curse

Mimi Miyagi · Nov 28, 2005, 06:39 PM // 18:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by Roza

What is wrong with a fashion show? Fashion shows are fun to a lot of people. For example, those people actually enjoying shopping for clothes. My only problem with that is that the fashion show requires you to go through a grind (so I skip that part mostly).

In PvE, there is really no way to get 'better' at some point (only the gold sinks are left as 'goals' at some point). I am not sure if you like pvp, but the 'cap' on self-improvement is not reached so quickly there. Try picking a new goal. Such as "joining a good guild and helping them to become the #1 guild in America/Europe/Korea, taking part in the GW championship-tournament and becoming world champion."

Seriously, if you want something more than just grinding for gold with little by way of real rewards and are looking for real challenges, pvp is the way to go. It will be a long time before you have made enough progress to be able to take and hold the HoH anytime you and your friends/guidies feel like it.

I've done the whole PVP Tombs thing, and found it less than fun.

I'm currently in a good guild, and we have many great guild events, but that is not the norm for most casual players.

I'm referring to the average, standard player, that may or may not belong to a guild - if they do it's probably just a casual environment. The HoH is filled with FOTW teams and horrible egos. GvG is ok, but the system itself is inherently unbalanced.

Regardless - just what new PVE content will captivate new/existing players? Tombs won't significantly change. GVG won't significantly change. Game balance, items, skills, will all be just more of the same - and if it's not, it will get nerfed enough until it is.

MSecorsky · Nov 28, 2005, 06:55 PM // 18:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lexar

After you ascend, they should drop the lvl 20 indicator in front of your name, (like it says for example 'W/Mo 20 Feiry dagronsordmastah') because it serves no purpose anymore, anyway. If they did that, it would clear a lot of misconceptions people have with thinking levels are important in the game.

Great idea, only thing would be that some people acsend before level 20. However, to simply change level 20 on a character to "Lord", "Knight", "Druid",... whatever (different for each class) would likely go a ways towards helping the level-addicted recover from their illness.

There is so much tied to level cap of 20 regarding balance that I'd shudder at the amount of coding/testing/bug-hunting that would be required to even do something as foolish as raising the cap.

Here's a thought... if Guild Halls become ultra-modifiable and have their own storage, has anyone else considered the idea of becoming a guild of one?

Takeko Nakano · Nov 28, 2005, 07:04 PM // 19:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by Frank The Tank

I guess that's why WoW is so hugely successful (and still growing) & why GW is at a low point now.

IMHO a MMORPG is not for the casual gamer and should not be designed as such.

There is a lot to fix now before the expansion hits, or it may DOA.

I would agree that a product designed for the "casual-gamer" that needs retention is bad, because they're never going to commit for long enough to make them profitable. At the same time, they have to remained focused and not panic because some people have got bored.

But I'm curious - is GW at a low-point? Some people have left, but more people join every day.

I think the main problem was that too much time elapsed between release and Sorrow's Furnace. Perhaps this was down to bug-fixing that needed to be attended to over the main game. People that started to play right at the start got bored early - I can understand.

There is certainly a possibility that the GW community could shrink considerably over time if content releases aren't released promptly. It is important that ANet bust their arses over Chapter 2 to get it as good as possible but not delayed too long - I'm sure they're working hard, but they really have to make this work for their own sakes. After that, they'll have to ensure updates are rolled out at regular intervals, regardless of whether or not they're free. I would pay a modest amount of money for an update that was larger than SF but smaller than a chapter release. You could still have the free gameplay updates and the odd "SF".

Loviatar · Nov 28, 2005, 08:08 PM // 20:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by Takeko Nakano

I
After that, they'll have to ensure updates are rolled out at regular intervals, regardless of whether or not they're free. I would pay a modest amount of money for an update that was larger than SF but smaller than a chapter release. You could still have the free gameplay updates and the odd "SF".

the message (interview) was that new content (chapters) of the same size and new content of the original game (same price as well) would be coming out twice a year at (ABOUT) 6 month intervals AFTER the first one (chapter 2) came out.

little extras like SF Halloween, Christmas and other things like game engine upgrades will be free

and from what i have read NCsoft is very much aware that chapter 2 content will be the difference between someone saying

*IS THIS ALL WE GET?)*

OR

*OMG LOOK AT WHAT THEY DID THIS TIME GIVE IT TO ME NOW*

i think we will be happily surprisedas they will not cheap out on this one

Takeko Nakano · Nov 28, 2005, 09:53 PM // 21:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by Loviatar

the message (interview) was that new content (chapters) of the same size and new content of the original game (same price as well) would be coming out twice a year at (ABOUT) 6 month intervals AFTER the first one (chapter 2) came out.

little extras like SF Halloween, Christmas and other things like game engine upgrades will be free

New chapters every 6 months, with small free updates in between, would be perfect. And personally I think Chapter 2 will be great.

SO LONG AS ARENANET IGNORE THE CASUAL GAMERS! Stand firm in giving loyal GW-players the update we deserve

Zobi · Nov 28, 2005, 10:35 PM // 22:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pagan Greyfeather

. I disagreed with ANet when they made getting sigils so easy. I think the Hall should be earned in HoH.

I am sorry, but I have to disagree. I loathe Tombs, it is full of arrogant gits, leavers and FOTM builds. I have met many people in GW who are predominately PvE, as well as many that love to GvG, but not HoH.

I am sick to death of idiotic rank 6-9 PvPers who come to SF, UW and FoW and absolutely suck, yet tell everyone how easy PvE is.

IMO a plethora of PvP players have a massive ego, and many of them cannot understand fundamental PvE mechanics.

If your idea was implemented, where would that leave people who like to PvE and GvG?

Takeko Nakano · Nov 28, 2005, 11:33 PM // 23:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zobi

I am sick to death of idiotic rank 6-9 PvPers who come to SF, UW and FoW and absolutely suck, yet tell everyone how easy PvE is. IMO a plethora of PvP players have a massive ego, and many of them cannot understand fundamental PvE mechanics.

There are people with serious issues in GW, PvE & PvP, but certainly rank is no indication of someone's ability in PvE or even their suitability to join a guild - some insist that you be rank x to join them. Yeah, as if IWAY works in GvF

Sir Skullcrasher · Nov 28, 2005, 11:46 PM // 23:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by actionjack

actually.. I do toy with the idea of raising the level cap up to 40 before... but before you get your oils and match ready, read on. Level 40 would be the same as lv 20. The same time and experience to go from 1 level , is not two. So is the rewards and stuff gain. (so instead of gaining 10 attribut points to spend, you get 5 for each level, etc) The argument there is that it give you a more sense of accomplishment, like you are getting stronger faster. so Yah on lv 40!

Sorry Jack.. level 40 is not a good idea. By making level 40 the cap... people have to constantly do missions and fight different enemies to level up to close level 40. People complain about playing game just to reach certain level. I know its not hard to get to level 20 but that take at least 100 hours or more to get there.

Mimi Miyagi · Nov 29, 2005, 12:31 AM // 00:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by sir skulkcrasher

Sorry Jack.. level 40 is not a good idea. By making level 40 the cap... people have to constantly do missions and fight different enemies to level up to close level 40. People complain about playing game just to reach certain level. I know its not hard to get to level 20 but that take at least 100 hours or more to get there.

And just how is that a bad thing? The game provides players content and a rewards system for 100 hours of play? What should they do with their time instead? Isn't that the point of a MMORPG - to provide content and rewards for time spent?

Not that I think getting to level 20 takes 100 hours - perhaps for a casual 1-2 hours three times a week player that doesn't really care - but it can be done much much faster than that. In fact, getting to level 20 is the easy part. Finishing the game may take that long.

MSecorsky · Nov 29, 2005, 12:35 AM // 00:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mimi Miyagi

And just how is that a bad thing? The game provides players content and a rewards system for 100 hours of play? What should they do with their time instead? Isn't that the point of a MMORPG - to provide content and rewards for time spent?

Not that I think getting to level 20 takes 100 hours - perhaps for a casual 1-2 hours three times a week player that doesn't really care - but it can be done much much faster than that. In fact, getting to level 20 is the easy part. Finishing the game may take that long.

Guild Wars is meant to be different. The rewards beyond 20 are the skills you acquire, not the levels you acquire. There is so much balance tied to the level capping at twenty that to change it would have massive gamewide implications. Get over levels. This isn't the game for level-grinding, thank the gods of play.

Mimi Miyagi · Nov 29, 2005, 06:09 AM // 06:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by MSecorsky

Guild Wars is meant to be different. The rewards beyond 20 are the skills you acquire, not the levels you acquire. There is so much balance tied to the level capping at twenty that to change it would have massive gamewide implications. Get over levels. This isn't the game for level-grinding, thank the gods of play.

There are very few skills to "acquire" after level 20. Is that supposed to make up for lack of real tangible rewards?

It takes longer to acquire NON elite skills than it does elites. In addition, a fair amount of those "elites" are actually not worth the trouble to capture, and most are just slightly modded normal skills.

Capping elites isn't much of a reward for ascending and reaching level 20.

Maxiemonster · Nov 29, 2005, 07:52 AM // 07:52

I just hope it's not new content + new item looks, that would suck. I hope for new skills, better items, better armor, not just new contect, since that's just a matter of time to go through, and you're done with the fun, just like you were with SF (though, I still love the farming). Though, the new class(es) seems great, and I'm going to start one as soon as the game starts, probably make something overpowereds of it (unless ANet finally really tried to do something without having to nerf it later on, which I doubt) and own alot in PvP for the first couple of weeks that I can.

hidden_agenda · Nov 29, 2005, 08:50 AM // 08:50

Actually i think the problem is far more fundamental.

GW is actually 2 games. The PvP attracts one crowd and the PvE attracts a somewhat different crowd. Personally, I am firmly inside the PvE crowd. i find PvP pointless, since i spend my working days competing in real-life, i want an actual fantasy rpg when i play. Of course, that's just me, and is not meant to disparage the PvP crowd at all.

On the other hand, between my wife and myself we bought three copies of the game, including a collector's edition. So I certainly feel that as the PvE crowd has also paid, we deserve a voice.

Actually, statistically speaking, it is the casual gamers that subsidize the regular gamers. Think about it, which is cheaper to Anet? The people that played for 100 hour to run through the game and then don't play until the next release of new content. Or the guys that logs on 10 hours every day?

Server times cost, so effectively the casual gamers paid $.5 for each hour, while the serious gamer that logged 1000 hours only paid $.05 for each hour.

Getting back to the point of the thread. I am actually fine with the level cap -- provided that they focus on PvE in a different fashion. GIVE US A GREAT STORY! I mean, I don't know about how others feel, but I think a great story along the lines of Baldur's Gate 2 or Knights of the Old Republic 1 will be great!

I love to play online with others to complete quests and missions when there is a gripping story. I think back, and I have to say that I loved the moment when the gates to Lion's Arch opened. It felt like an accomplishment. Unfortunately, that seems to be the high point of the storyline. After that, the story fell apart rather quickly...

I mean, if the White Mantle was evil, why would they accept the refugees? Why would you, as a hero of Ascalon, aid the Shining Blade when the survival of the refugees still depends on the good will of the White Mantle?

Anyways, my point is just that, even for the PvE crowd, we don't need a higher level cap. Give us a great chapter in terms of a great story, and lots of people would want to play it -- only to see what happens.

To me, new content doesn't mean some new area to explore. No, it must be accompanied with a new story. Hopefully a story that grabs the attention and emotions and make you proud of yourself and your team-mates when you reached its climax.

-Loki- · Nov 29, 2005, 09:45 AM // 09:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by hidden_agenda

I mean, if the White Mantle was evil, why would they accept the refugees?

Because the White Mantle weren't evil, they were trying to save the world from the Titans, under the guidance of the Mursaat, until you wrecked everything.

Denny Pace · Nov 29, 2005, 10:44 AM // 10:44

Frankly, I think that both Level and Rank are relatively meaningless in and of themselves. You can get to level 20 long before you finish the PvE portion of the game, and Rank can be earned rather easily via some of the cheaper fame factory builds in the hall. This has all been discussed in previous threads.

The real fun of the PvE portion of the game was/is finishing it. When many of us were done with that, Anet dropped Sorrows Furnace on us, and we had more interesting, non rank-related things to do, including the Titan Quests. The next chapter can and will likely have enough substance and new goodness for us to carry everyone through for another 6-9 months, without regard to leveling or ranking up.

Before we go speculating what could go wrong with Chapter 2, why don't we allow Anet to release it? After all, they've done a pretty stellar job up until now, keeping most of us playing and enjoying the game. The glass is half full, fellow guildies...

Roza · Nov 29, 2005, 12:02 PM // 12:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by Denny Pace

The glass is half full, fellow guildies...

Or even fellow GW-players, as I think you meant to say.

Me, I am looking forward to the next chapter. And those who already seem to know for certain that it will hold nothing they care about should probably consider another game. A game cannot cater to the wishes of everyone alike.

Red Sonya · Nov 29, 2005, 12:26 PM // 12:26

You aren't going to level past 20, there's not going to be any better weapon stats or armor stats. There's only going to be "NEW CONTENT" for the PVE players. Now, this doesn't mean that "resource drops" for neater looking ARMOR won't be there, so you won't have to goto the UW or whatever that other one is all the time and it doesn't mean neat kewler looking weapon types won't drop and maybe the gold value will be higher. But, you can forget ELITISM in this game. Ain't gonna be no level 40's, ain't gonna be no better than someone else bs in the new chapter as far as STATS go. This game is about two things. SKILL & INTELLIGENCE thas it. Anyone can get to level 20 easily and anyone can get the necessary weapons/armor that anyone else has in STATS. Now, you might not be able to LOOK as pretty and for that you have to work for (as there should be something to work for after 20), but, you'll still be able to fight in PVP (which is what this game is about really) with equal equipent STATS, and only your SKILLS and INTELLIGENCE will make a difference.

All too many people want this to be like every other mmorpg out there a "materialistic, long tedious level grinding, phat loot pwnage" type of game. Guess what? It ain't ever gonna be that, so, if that's what you are expecting, you might as well leave now and not even buy the expansion. Ain't NEVAH gonna happen with GUILD WARS cause it's about SKILL & INTELLIGENCE, not materialistic things, long tedious level grinding and phat loot". AMEN!

Mimi Miyagi · Nov 29, 2005, 07:06 PM // 19:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by Red Sonya

You aren't going to level past 20, there's not going to be any better weapon stats or armor stats. There's only going to be "NEW CONTENT" for the PVE players. Now, this doesn't mean that "resource drops" for neater looking ARMOR won't be there, so you won't have to goto the UW or whatever that other one is all the time and it doesn't mean neat kewler looking weapon types won't drop and maybe the gold value will be higher. But, you can forget ELITISM in this game. Ain't gonna be no level 40's, ain't gonna be no better than someone else bs in the new chapter as far as STATS go. This game is about two things. SKILL & INTELLIGENCE thas it. Anyone can get to level 20 easily and anyone can get the necessary weapons/armor that anyone else has in STATS. Now, you might not be able to LOOK as pretty and for that you have to work for (as there should be something to work for after 20), but, you'll still be able to fight in PVP (which is what this game is about really) with equal equipent STATS, and only your SKILLS and INTELLIGENCE will make a difference.

All too many people want this to be like every other mmorpg out there a "materialistic, long tedious level grinding, phat loot pwnage" type of game. Guess what? It ain't ever gonna be that, so, if that's what you are expecting, you might as well leave now and not even buy the expansion. Ain't NEVAH gonna happen with GUILD WARS cause it's about SKILL & INTELLIGENCE, not materialistic things, long tedious level grinding and phat loot". AMEN!

Oh? And what part of the current game is NOT long, tedious grinding?

Grinding for faction? grinding for ecto? Grinding for rares? Grinding for greens? Grinding for fame/rank emotes?

How much skill does it take to run IWAY? Spirit Spam? Ranger Spike? Air Spike? Any other FOTW?

You say it's NOT materialistic? ROFL. Yeah, I guess FoW armor, Gold max dmg GODLY fellblades, black dyes, Eternal Shields...yeah, not materialistic AT ALL.

The game is nothing but materialistic, except it's materialistic over cosmetic items. Vanity over substance.

But if you want to keep repeating the mantra "skill and intelligence" perhaps someday it will come true. It's just not true RIGHT NOW. Hasn't been for ages.

Loviatar · Nov 29, 2005, 07:41 PM // 19:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mimi Miyagi

What should they do with their time instead? Isn't that the point of a MMORPG - to provide content and rewards for time spent?

maybe read a book,
visit friends,
play another game until chapter 2

Mimi Miyagi

IF THIS WERE AM MMORPG (WHICH IT IS NOT) YOU WOULD BE CORRECT.

since GW is not an MMORPG it is NOT intended to provide 24/7/365 hold your hand entertainment for you.

it is meant to be played and put aside as you want to and still being a level 20 character in a level 20 world after 3 months off when you return.

not being a level 20 character in a level 40 world where you feel forced to catch up.

SINCE IT WAS STATED THAT THE LEVEL CAP WAS A MAJOR GAME DESIGN DONT EXPECT THEM TO CHANGE IT SOON IF AT ALL

Sir Skullcrasher · Nov 29, 2005, 07:44 PM // 19:44

I seriously don't get all the complains about making the level cap higher? I mean whats the positive side of making it higher except to have the game world unbalance. You going to have people who are max level (lets say 40) while people who don't played much as at level 20 or maybe 30. Imagine if you go PvP and your team is lower than the opposite team who is full of level 40 people with max amrors and weapons.