Curse

dont feel no pain · Dec 16, 2005, 10:23 AM // 10:23

Mermsers are freaking awsome and usualy the most valued players in a pve where it is him that takes out caster bosses and not to mention in pvp shutdown is just sweet!!

strcpy · Dec 16, 2005, 10:24 AM // 10:24

This is the problem is "support" builds in general - both real life and online. Unless you are directly contributing to something you are useless for many people, it takes either someone who had done thier time or an astute person to see.

Ever work in System administration? It can be frustrating - "There hasn't been a major crash ot security break in months - what are we paying you for?". "Umm - to not have those events?" isn't a valid option for many companies. Yet it is true. Many of the bad to mediocre companies go through spells where the IT department is God and Useless - even though thier role and impartance never changes. A good SA will never be seen doing anything or ever be noticed - if you are comprimised you are either not so good or the attack is very good/new.

Same with mesmers and other support chars - others just die really quick when you do your job. No little numbers or big drops in health occur based on what you are doing. Spike damge people get the kill - yet it is because us "support" chars made it possible.

Eh, just what you have to live with if you choose that path. When things are good they are really good. Your team will protect you (or you salary is good in real life) and the enemy team realises you are why they are loosing and targets you. When things are bad you are pretty much alone saying "you guys are going to suck" - take solace in that you are correct.

Xenrath · Dec 16, 2005, 10:31 AM // 10:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by dont feel no pain

Mermsers are freaking awsome and usualy the most valued players in a pve where it is him that takes out caster bosses and not to mention in pvp shutdown is just sweet!!

er no? mesmers are probably the least picked class out of all for groups in PvE at least, despite what they can do to casters/bosses... i've one and most others i've encountered that i spoke with had the same experience. monks, warriors, eles always get picked, necros/rangers and then mesmers are right at the bottom of the "pick me!" chain it seems...

anyway back on topic, they probably get targetted early because they can shut down the other team's healers/casters etc which can then result in problems for the whole team

dont feel no pain · Dec 16, 2005, 10:39 AM // 10:39

Quote:

er no? mesmers are probably the least picked class out of all for groups in PvE at least, despite what they can do to casters/bosses... i've one and most others i've encountered that i spoke with had the same experience. monks, warriors, eles always get picked, necros/rangers and then mesmers are right at the bottom of the "pick me!" chain it seems...

u know all of those hard spots in pve

e.g strong bosses 4/6 casters 1 mesmer can completly mes them up and fast

Hockster · Dec 16, 2005, 12:08 PM // 12:08

Why do people feel a need to resurrect 4 month old threads?

chippxero · Dec 16, 2005, 12:11 PM // 12:11

If it's relavent disscussion it's better than starting a new thread.

I never seem to have mesmers in my group i'm normally one of those last minute monks that joins seconds before we go out, I want a mesmer character but i can't delete my other ones as too much time and effort went in to them and i still use them for different things.

IMO mesmers are a must for PvP as most group builds rely on a caster or spells at some point and mesmers are the one class i hate so see on the other team.

hilkos · Dec 16, 2005, 12:28 PM // 12:28

i play mesmer in both PvE and PvP. I love it and indeed it can be hard to find a group in PvE. Once in the group, it helps to show your skills, so people actually see what you are doing. I have gotten nothing but nice replies to that and many times compliments.
In PvP it is a different story since people don't seem to understand something very important about mesmers: As a mesmer you have to switch between targets all the time. This way you keep the ENTIRE enemy group crippled almost all the time if you play your skills and energy management right (Thats right, people, that is how awesome the mesmer is !). However there are always people complaining about the mesmer not following target calls.
So allow me for once here to vent my frustration about that:
A mesmer that blindly follows target calls and therefor doesn't work all the enemies, is a HORRIBLE mesmer ! That is why you always should have only 1 or at the most 2 in your group ! 1 mesmer can keep all enemies handicapped all the time !

thank you

Loch · Dec 16, 2005, 03:59 PM // 15:59

Quote:

A mesmer that blindly follows target calls and therefor doesn't work all the enemies, is a HORRIBLE mesmer !

Well put. Backfire a caster, Divert a boss, get Empathy on a Ranger, then Shatter Enchant on the current target. That's how a Mesmer does it!

I know in PvP, the biggest challenge of playing a Mesmer is knowing when to bounce around to different targets, and when to spike the current target.

Teufel Eldritch · Dec 16, 2005, 06:14 PM // 18:14

Mebbe it's just me.... mebbe I'm just attuned personality-wise to the profession but...I dont find playing Mesmer difficult. I find it easier to play than a Necro or Monk thats for sure.

hilkos · Dec 16, 2005, 06:21 PM // 18:21

you can make every charactre as difficult or easy to play as you like, so in a way it is just you

If a sprinter is not exhausted at the finish, it means he could have run faster. It is the same here. If a charactre is easy to play for you (any charactre) it means you can get more out of it.

jibikao · Dec 16, 2005, 06:31 PM // 18:31

I've been doing ranom/team arena for quite some time now and I actually hear more nasty things about Rangers than Mesmer.

The comments I saw are "gay interruption", "I can't cast ___ thing", "___ runners", "I hate Rangers!!!!, "____ Rangers"

Most people who complained are Casters who got interrupted so many times by Ranger.

I got a great nasty comment from a Mesmer because I use Disrupting Lunge to disable her Illusionary Weapon TWICE. lol It was pure luck. I spammed it right before she casted it. Oh man, was she pissed. She was like "FFFFFFing Ranger".

Then my friend and I started a 3 R/N touchy team + 1 with Dark Aura. We owned so much that a Monk was yelling "____ Ranger!!!!" lol Oh god, that feels good.

Then since I am a beast master and I use an Elder Strider, so many people say "That bird is so annoying!!!" lol I can't help it that I killed them with my big bird. Oh god, that feels good.

Monica Angelina · Dec 16, 2005, 06:43 PM // 18:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kai Nui

Same here. I seriously think mesmers need better armour because they're going down way to fast. And since I am one and I've devoted all my time into one... there's not any getting out of it. I've died way more than the normal person, refunds just get in the way because I constantly have to swap since I want skill points on my main character, etc... I dunno but mesmering is being a pain. I think every time I go out there I am the first to die. First thing I see is a warrior chasing me and I have to run, and the best running technique requires me to stop to cast it then cripples me after it's done. It's really pathetic. There needs to be some more running skills, armour, or something, I hate to have a warrior countering build, but I have to have it if I even want to play. I love interrupting spells because it comes easy to me, but when I'm dead in 2 seconds, I'm just a walking dead-man.

Try thinking outside the box...

When a warrior is chasing you, you don't have to run, it is both more cost effective and efficient to either slow him down or, even better, make him pay for every hit he does on you. Even when you run and are crippled, again, why not turn that into an advantage? Transfer the crippling on the Warrior! You now have a warrior that is constantly crippled that you can easily run away from and everytime he hacks at you, he dies a little more. Life cant better better for a mesmer than that! Mesmer is so overpowering when played right it better go down fast. I shutter at the thought of an invinci-mesmer!

(I think I just gave away a good snare spell chain, though)

It really makes me laugh every time I hear or see people being fearful of a warrior. For me, their only utility is an efficient damage sink. They are not all powerful like many think that they are. Try an Energy Burn on a warrior sometimes, they don't like it. :P

Lastly, I'll go out on a limb on this one: you prolly die way more than the "normal" person because you are out in front (and you shouldn't be as a caster) way more often than the "normal" person is. I cannot stress this enough in all of my play with PUGs. There is a reason Anet put a little aggro circle in your map. It's there for you to know where you are but more importantly, where NOT TO BE. This would be the case for any caster. Yes, that includes those of you necros/ellies/monks that think you can tank and just charge forward blindly. If you are truely a tank build (and I'm not saying they don't exist), then don't bring a warrior.

Lady Erighan · Dec 16, 2005, 07:17 PM // 19:17

In general, warriors are no match for mesmers. If you keep being killed by warriors, then you're doing something wrong.

Banebow · Dec 16, 2005, 07:57 PM // 19:57

Mesmers are not chosen for groups because the average group does not understand what exactly a mesmer does. You all know about the Warrior/Monk/Elementalist groups, they exist because people can say "warrior tanks, monk heals, elementalist does damage" But they cannot find a place for the powerful shutdown from a mesmer.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lady Erighan

In general, warriors are no match for mesmers. If you keep being killed by warriors, then you're doing something wrong.

Besides empathy, domination mesmers can do very few things to a warrior that will keep said mesmer from getting killed. While I am all for empathy, eviscerate followed by executioner's strike does a heck of a lot more to me than the 62 from empathy does to him. Sure, illusion magic can destroy almost any warrior, but I find domination more generaly useful in PvP then illusion magic, so I tend to deal with warriors by throwing empathy on them and hoping they target someone else. Things such as blackout and diversion are great, but even regular swings from that axe warrior hurt more than I care to worry about.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Monica Angelina

I shutter at the thought of an invinci-mesmer!

I have one. Problem is, it takes enough skills to prevent me from doing much else. By the way, condition transfer from yourself to an enemy is necro-based, and takes a slot. I do not always go necromancer secondary

The real question is, how many slots are you willing to give up to stop a warrior? Two? Three? More than that? At some point you are paying so much to stop that warrior that you cannot do anything else very well. Sure, signet of midnight can stop many warriors in their tracks, but it takes your elite slot. That is all fine and dandy, if you want to shut warriors down, but when an anti-caster build goes up against a bloodthirsty hammer warrior, it does not take much thought to know who wins, if no one else is backing you up. The warrior will just scoff at the energy burn and use his adrenaline knockdown skills.

Del12 · Dec 16, 2005, 08:03 PM // 20:03

It is quite frustrating to be setup for some mezzing in the arenas, only to have some w/mo on your butt the whole time. And if you have no monk, ether feast just doesn't cut it for keeping yourself alive. Sure you can spec to sig of midnight, spiteful, whatever, but then you aren't really doing mesmer stuff like interrupts/shutdown.

Lady Erighan · Dec 16, 2005, 08:09 PM // 20:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by Banebow

Besides empathy, domination mesmers can do very few things to a warrior that will keep said mesmer from getting killed. While I am all for empathy, eviscerate followed by executioner's strike does a heck of a lot more to me than the 62 from empathy does to him. Sure, illusion magic can destroy almost any warrior, but I find domination more generaly useful in PvP then illusion magic, so I tend to deal with warriors by throwing empathy on them and hoping they target someone else. Things such as blackout and diversion are great, but even regular swings from that axe warrior hurt more than I care to worry about.

Obviously a "shut-down" mesmer isn't going to hurt a warrior "too" much, but why would a domination-heavy mesmer target a warrior when there are higher priority targets? Thus, I was more referring to illusion mesmers. And since sooo many people like to bring warriors and rangers into randoms and tombs, I prefer to bring illusion equipped mesmers to deal with them.

Persistance + Conjure + Phantom + Crippling Anguish + Clumsiness + Gale = FTW!

Epinephrine · Dec 16, 2005, 08:20 PM // 20:20

Few people play illusion mesmers, and the biggest problem I find with illusion is that it doesn't manage energy very well (and deals poorly with casters).

You end up needing to grab inspiration to handle the energy side of things, which at the same time limits your ability to use other attributes. Illusion mesmers DO destroy warriors quite nicely though - Ineptitude/Clumsiness/Phantom/Spirit of Failure/Conjure and they don't last long at all, plus you keep your energy up.

Two April Mornings · Dec 16, 2005, 08:23 PM // 20:23

Mesmers can rock PVP if used well.
Play well with your mesmer and you'll earn respect, even if its PVE.

tigernz · Dec 16, 2005, 08:34 PM // 20:34

I usually only take 1-2 skills to deal with warriors & rangers: Signet of Midnight & Plague Touch.

Sure it costs an elite slot, but for my money it's well worth it. Plenty of other skills to kill casters with.

I just wish they'd stick Mantra of Persistance into the illusion line because as Epi mentioned, to get the best value out of illusion hexes you're wanting to have MoP in there, which means investing points into Inspiration, so you're pretty much stuck with 2 skill lines unless you choose to drop Ill & Insp down a bit to get 8-9 points in adifferent attribute.

Monica Angelina · Dec 16, 2005, 08:34 PM // 20:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by Banebow

Mesmers are not chosen for groups because the average group does not understand what exactly a mesmer does. You all know about the Warrior/Monk/Elementalist groups, they exist because people can say "warrior tanks, monk heals, elementalist does damage" But they cannot find a place for the powerful shutdown from a mesmer.

Besides empathy, domination mesmers can do very few things to a warrior that will keep said mesmer from getting killed. While I am all for empathy, eviscerate followed by executioner's strike does a heck of a lot more to me than the 62 from empathy does to him. Sure, illusion magic can destroy almost any warrior, but I find domination more generaly useful in PvP then illusion magic, so I tend to deal with warriors by throwing empathy on them and hoping they target someone else. Things such as blackout and diversion are great, but even regular swings from that axe warrior hurt more than I care to worry about.

I have one. Problem is, it takes enough skills to prevent me from doing much else. By the way, condition transfer from yourself to an enemy is necro-based, and takes a slot. I do not always go necromancer secondary

The real question is, how many slots are you willing to give up to stop a warrior? Two? Three? More than that? At some point you are paying so much to stop that warrior that you cannot do anything else very well. Sure, signet of midnight can stop many warriors in their tracks, but it takes your elite slot. That is all fine and dandy, if you want to shut warriors down, but when an anti-caster build goes up against a bloodthirsty hammer warrior, it does not take much thought to know who wins, if no one else is backing you up. The warrior will just scoff at the energy burn and use his adrenaline knockdown skills.

My point of the post wasn't so much so to demonstrate my "1337" skillz as was the very first sentence in the post, to ask people to "Think Outside the Box".

I'll be the first one to admint that I don't profess to be an uber mesmer by any stretch of the imagination. I use Me interrupts as a secondary profession on my Ellie. My primary mesmer is merely level 10 although I am trying (and so far w/o success) to get ascended with bonus.

Care to share your invinci-mesmer build?