Curse

bahloney · Aug 28, 2005, 01:04 AM // 01:04

Heh, the problem is really just the lack of obvious visual cues that show what the mesmer's doing, it's really a subtle thing, especially seeing as most of their abilities affect the enemy in some indirect way that needs to be triggered by something done by the target in order to have an effect.. Hence a great many of the more simple-minded folk will think they dont do anything, just because they cant see it

You really find out what a mesmer can do when you're a monk being targeted by one or two of the annoying buggers, and you're suddenly going 'WTF??! Where'd my energy go?!' or you're staring at your motionless corpse after trying to heal someone, and you just know some bothersome enemy mesmer is smirking shamelessly somewhere

octaviancmb · Aug 28, 2005, 01:05 AM // 01:05

There's a reason many Mesmers suck. Until just recently (yesterday), 58% of the Mesmer skill line was utterly useless in high level PvP. Many of us got a little rusty in the 2 months energy-denial was the only useful build you could run. And we couldn't get much practice in PvE either, since virtually all PvE groups are unwilling to allow a Mesmer into their group at all (and PvE AI is so stupid you don't really get a lot of "practice" there, anyway).

So most of us did the only thing we could: stopped playing our profession.

We'll be up to speed in just a little bit, though.

Leddy · Aug 28, 2005, 01:31 AM // 01:31

Nowadays in PvP i target mesmers before monks. Besides the monks being harder to kill anyway, the mesmers love hexing all of us.

Oh. I have a E/Mo and a Me/Mo in PvE. =D

Kai Nui · Aug 28, 2005, 01:39 AM // 01:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kampfkeks

Okay as a lot of other folks i've been pvping a lot due to the PVPX Event so far. All is fine with a single exception concerned mesmers. I noticed a strange but global hate leaning towards mesmers.
Mesmers now allways get the most harsh comments of them all and in many a two battles i've seen them getting targetted before the monks. This is totally normal and quite a strategy. However there is a thing i do not understand but noticed many times. Why exactly is there so much hate coming from the own team?
Speaking about targetted anyways... when a battle was lost.. it was not me to get blamed for "poor healing skills" but the mesmer for poor mesmerizing the enemy!?

I had a battle where a mesmer brought IW and kindly asked if any of the blade warriors brought hundred blades (my guess is to mimic it) and she got no answer at all. Later in that battle i saw one of those warriors use hundred blades. Could anyone explain that behavior to me? He clearly had his channels activated because he was chatting around a lot, but just ignored the mesmer all together.

Another situation, another mesmer, another battle. Someone on our team died and the mesmer ressed him asap and was doing an overall great job too. However the time came where he died without me being able to do much about it for i was getting constantly hit by warriors. Did anyone of my team res him? Not at all, just again the total ignorance towards mesmer. Even though they know their danger to the other teams (by targetting them first). I actually had to break healing to bring her back to live (i know, a bad move but i was just fooling around with a build anyways). Thats when another person died and got ressed asap. So there clearly was a signet spare, why no res of the mesmer?

Another situation, another place... no mesmer this time.
I overheard a conversation in the outposts stating that mesmers were totally noob and only noobs would choose that class. And the sad thing was... there were so many of them agreeing on that.

So, did you experience similiar things?
Is it just the new flavor of the month to hate thy mesmer, friend or foe? Or could it be a side effect of the large influx of really bad pvpers due to the PVPX Event?

Yes, it's always been like this for me and I've been a me/mo my whole guild wars gaming experience. Being extremely weak and constantly targeted and the first to die, on top of having the many flaws in this game already just never stop to piss me off. Being so weak and being targeted before monks has always happened to me right off the bat making my job just a constant struggle of run-away-from-the-warrior and that's all I can ever have set up to do. I can never actually do a job because I see a warrior everytime I go out. It's seriously that bad and probably will stay that way since I'm an easy target to take out as opposed to a warrior who is overpowered in armour, life, and skills that just add on. It's really no competition when I'm out there, It's just me running from a warrior and then dying. I picked the mesmer because I had read into it being the toughest class to master and that it required the most skill to use. Sadly, I did not know that I would not have enough life to keep me alive long enough. My armour doesn't hold up, and yes, it's good if you have a warrior in PVE, but since players can choose to pick me out and kill me, I'm probably the most useless person because I am and always will be a walking target just to be killed before anyone else. I have been killed 2nd 12 times in my whole career. Every other time I was 1st to die or I had to construct a mo/me which was also targeted first anyway so I'm pretty much screwed from the front and behind. It's really quite a shame...

Morganas · Aug 28, 2005, 04:08 AM // 04:08

Sounds like you need more anti-warrior kai. Try taking a water ele, curses nec, or an illusion mesmer with signet of midnight and plague touch to deal with your warrior problems.

Amused Observer · Aug 28, 2005, 04:16 AM // 04:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kampfkeks

So, did you experience similiar things?
Is it just the new flavor of the month to hate thy mesmer, friend or foe? Or could it be a side effect of the large influx of really bad pvpers due to the PVPX Event?

It's an interesting point, but legitimate. When I was playing Mes yesterday, and trying to join groups in tombs, I had a hard time getting in. And when I DO get in, only one group's monks bothered to keep me alive (and rezzing me).

Kai Nui · Aug 28, 2005, 04:17 AM // 04:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by Morganas

Sounds like you need more anti-warrior kai. Try taking a water ele, curses nec, or an illusion mesmer with signet of midnight and plague touch to deal with your warrior problems.

Oh, I know how to deal with warriors, it's just that if I am, then that's all I ever do. It's just not as fun as interrupting spellcasters. I think that's what takes skill to be able to do it at the moment and deal the damage in, not worry about the warriors bashing away at me because they see me as a piece of bait and they're the hungry dying animal.

Amused Observer · Aug 28, 2005, 04:26 AM // 04:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by trelloskilos

The only hate for mesmers coming from me is that I know that if there's one on the enemy team, it's practically a foegone conclusion.

I play a ranger, and like a mesmer, can influence the balance of the teams with just a single trap, distracting shot, spirit or attack skill. (Just watch the warriors suddenly bleed, burn, poison and blind when they approach my monk)

But the mesmer has the edge over me. With their energy sapping skills, I become no better than a warrior with a bow, weaker armour and no skills to speak of. Most other classes can deal damage, but only a mesmer can turn the mightiest of smiters into an ineffectual and vulnerable player in a very short time.

Bastards!

Actually, I think a competent R is rather deadly. I managed to land in a good team on friday. Unfortunately, the opposing team had an excellent Ranger, who poisoned 2/3 of my group. He was the single reason why we lost.

The problem for Mes is prioritizing targets. Unless there is effective communication from the rest of the team, the Mes would not know what each opposing character's build is, and therefore make an informed decision on who to shut down first. In that battle w/ the R's group, the Ranger should have been the first priority for my mes, rather than a Monk (the called target for our group) that turned out to spam RoF. I figured it out a tad too late, unfortunately.

Morganas · Aug 28, 2005, 04:27 AM // 04:27

An anti-caster mesmer entirely relies on the rest of the team to protect him. If you're not playing with skilled players, they just aren't fun to play, and are just really soft fodder. I usually just use a nuker or monk when I'm not with people I've played with before.

Don't play an anti-caster mesmer with random pick ups, it will rarely work. Play something that can win a game without extensive support. If you're having these problems with your group of regulars, you need to educate them a little more on keeping you alive.

Amused Observer · Aug 28, 2005, 04:35 AM // 04:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kai Nui

Yes, it's always been like this for me and I've been a me/mo my whole guild wars gaming experience. Being extremely weak and constantly targeted and the first to die, on top of having the many flaws in this game already just never stop to piss me off. Being so weak and being targeted before monks has always happened to me right off the bat making my job just a constant struggle of run-away-from-the-warrior and that's all I can ever have set up to do. I can never actually do a job because I see a warrior everytime I go out. It's seriously that bad and probably will stay that way since I'm an easy target to take out as opposed to a warrior who is overpowered in armour, life, and skills that just add on. It's really no competition when I'm out there, It's just me running from a warrior and then dying. I picked the mesmer because I had read into it being the toughest class to master and that it required the most skill to use. Sadly, I did not know that I would not have enough life to keep me alive long enough. My armour doesn't hold up, and yes, it's good if you have a warrior in PVE, but since players can choose to pick me out and kill me, I'm probably the most useless person because I am and always will be a walking target just to be killed before anyone else. I have been killed 2nd 12 times in my whole career. Every other time I was 1st to die or I had to construct a mo/me which was also targeted first anyway so I'm pretty much screwed from the front and behind. It's really quite a shame...

There's no shame in being killed first. When I'm in fow, for example, the group notices when my Mes is the one being targeted by enemy warriors, casters, and beasts. B/c it means I'm doing enough damage to the mobs, relative to the rest of the group, for the AI to make my character the priority target (above monks).

In PVPX, when the opposing team meticulously check out my group, and see that I'm the only Mes, I end up drawing opposing Ws and nukers (1/2 the team actually). While I'm being chased, the rest of my team can carry on the business of killing off opposing players. So my death for 2 or 3 deaths is a fair trade off, imo.

Morganas · Aug 28, 2005, 04:37 AM // 04:37

Amused, you're quite off on the pve aggro concept. They're not attacking you because of damage, they're killing you because you get too close. Make sure to keep the front line warriors out of your aggro circle until all enemies have engaged on them, or else they'll prioritize low armor targets.

Kai Nui · Aug 28, 2005, 04:39 AM // 04:39

I'm thankful to have all these positive replys, this will really help me out. Thank you very much.

Edge Martinez · Aug 28, 2005, 04:39 AM // 04:39

I play an anticaster Mesmer for PvP and run with PUGs all the time. Depending on the PUG, we either do ok or suck hard, usually leaning towards the latter. We did extremely well running an all Mesmer + 2monk team before the update. Some were antiwarrior, some were anticaster, 2 were necro secondaries and had barbs. People literally dropped dead in 3 seconds. Ranger groups gave us hell though.

For the most part, I'd rather wait awhile longer and play with a PUG who knows what a Mesmer can do than join an ungrateful bunch of saps.

Autumn_Leaf · Aug 28, 2005, 04:41 AM // 04:41

i'm gonna try out e/me b/c eles for some reason when i play are not targeted nearly as much as monks and mesmers. the vast amount of energy the prof. holds would be deadly for a mesmer to have. be back with my finds prolly tomorrow.

Yen-lo-wang · Aug 28, 2005, 04:48 AM // 04:48

First of all, a mesmer who's halfway worth his salt is ALWAYS welcome in any of my groups, be it PvE or PvP.

There are some NASTY three-mesmer builds for GvG and Tombs I've seen and experimented with my guild on, but they are a little too risky and timing-based for your average PUG (that and most PUGs refuse Mesmers...). Mesmers get no love, but they deserve a ton of it. They're the least recognized powerful class in the game, with Necros a close second...

Kai Nui · Aug 28, 2005, 05:04 AM // 05:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by Autumn_Leaf

i'm gonna try out e/me b/c eles for some reason when i play are not targeted nearly as much as monks and mesmers. the vast amount of energy the prof. holds would be deadly for a mesmer to have. be back with my finds prolly tomorrow.

Actually I have thought of this, only downside is I really like having fast casting and a monk secondary. I guess I could adjust to energy storage but... it's just not the same I guess. I think all builds and classes should be able to play just as equally... =/

Yen-lo-wang · Aug 28, 2005, 05:06 AM // 05:06

The nice thing about E/Me's, at least from what a guildie of mine has told me, is that you're targeted late in the game, so you can either go as a straight Mesmer in disguise with a TON of energy, or as an Ele with a couple skills from the Illusion line to supplement your skills.

Denny Pace · Aug 28, 2005, 10:45 AM // 10:45

I'm always happy to see a mesmer in my group, even a secondary one. Between their castus interruptus and my rend enchantments, it makes PvP life much easier, especially now after the skill balance changes.

Numa Pompilius · Aug 28, 2005, 11:46 AM // 11:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kampfkeks

All is fine with a single exception concerned mesmers. I noticed a strange but global hate leaning towards mesmers.
Mesmers now allways get the most harsh comments of them all and in many a two battles i've seen them getting targetted before the monks.
This is totally normal and quite a strategy. However there is a thing i do not understand but noticed many times. Why exactly is there so much hate coming from the own team?

I played mesmer for a while yesterday, but gave up. Most of the time I got targetted first, and unlike monks mesmers can neither tank nor run.
When I _didn't_ get targeted, when the enemy forgot about me and left me standing on the sideline and concentrated on our monk, then I could really screw the other side up.

Taken together that probably explains both why mesmers get targeted first (annoying *and* easy to kill - I even instructed my own team to target the enemy mesmers first), and why their own teams don't like them (don't seem to do anything but die).

Quote:

Speaking about targetted anyways... when a battle was lost.. it was not me to get blamed for "poor healing skills" but the mesmer for poor mesmerizing the enemy!?

Well, I guess there's bad mesmers too, so I don't know what that was about. I've had my fair share of misclicks.

Quote:

I overheard a conversation in the outposts stating that mesmers were totally noob and only noobs would choose that class. And the sad thing was... there were so many of them agreeing on that.

Haha... That's just silly. Saying that mesmers are noobs is noobish.

Quote:

So, did you experience similiar things?

Not from my own teams, but I did get so much tender loving care from the opposing team that I stopped using my mesmer. It's just no fun dying first all the time.

Quote:

Or could it be a side effect of the large influx of really bad pvpers due to the PVPX Event?

Hey, I like bad pvp'ers. In fact I am one. I could never have made as much faction a normal weekend against the normal opposition as I did this weekend.

Gerbill · Aug 28, 2005, 12:06 PM // 12:06

I know exactly what started the hate for Mesmers.
My main character is a Mesmer and I've always been using as much of the skills I have and I've for as far as I know always been a good support to the team both in PvE and PvP.
In fact once I reached Droknar's Forge with my Mesmer and gotten the max def armor, I went to the Team arena's and yes it was hard to get invited, but I found players who were in a guild together and they PvPed a lot together, they invited me along with a fourth player. But I know I did well in that team simply because we had a few winning streaks until we met counter teams and simply because they whispered me to ask if I wanted to PvP with them which we occasionaly did.

But the hate for Mesmers exsists because there's a large group who can't play the profession properly it's one of the hardest professions to play properly. And the people who get a Mesmer because.. they saw another Mesmer pwn or they like how the health drops down quickly at the start of the game with Conjure Phantasm.. those people will need to learn how to play it.. because else they're trying to play other professions while having a Mesmer, it's quite a job.
Mostly interrupting and Energy draining which is even more usefull when done at specific times.

And that PvE-ers shouldn't be in the arena's is a load of crap, PvE-ers have equal if not more experience with using their professions. yes PvP is different, but that's what you'll learn after 1-2 battles.
I agree with the fact that it ain't to smart when you don't have a max def armor and go to the arena's in Lion's Arch or not having all your attribute points yet. But besides that, it's a load of shit.