Curse

twicky_kid · Jan 02, 2006, 02:26 PM // 14:26

Broken.....No

Overpowered.....Yes

gotenks · Jan 02, 2006, 03:00 PM // 15:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by Eder

You're suggesting that EoE is broken in PvP because there's no way to avoid having it affect ALL players at a time since everyone can only play humans... but I don't think that argument holds much water at all.

For starters, the skill does just what the description says... you may think that it "takes a PvE concept and applies it to PvP", but you must realize that this distinction was also created by you.

In PvP there are also different types of creatures involved that effectively take part in the matches and may change their outcomes... and even if no player is *directly* controlling them, taking advantage of pets or minions does require a player's skill. So, I think that most people would agree that "different types of creatures" is *not* a PvE-only concept.

To sum it up, there's nothing wrong with the skill per se until someone shows up and says "hey, different types of creatures is a PvE-only concept!" (which, at any rate, isn't true).

And finally, "It can't be avoided, so it must be nerfed!" is just as bad as "It's counterable, so it doesn't need nerfing!" - IMHO, you can't really say anything about wheter the skill is broken or not based simply on how avoidable/counterable it is... so the fact that all players are forced to play humans in PvP and therefore are doomed to be all affected by EoE all at the same time isn't really enough to say the skill is broken.

There is only one playable race "Player vs Player" so you can say when a someone enters PvP it becomes your team vs the other team(s), where does the concept of race fit in here? I think it has been misplaced. Think of this as a set where each of the two teams form a seperate set in terms of skills. There are skills for your own use, for use on your team mates(including pets/minions etc) and skills that affect your entire team. When it comes to attacking there are no skills/spells that attack the entire opposite team if they are not in the AOE. Then there are spirits which have an effect on all people in their range. EoE is a standout as it forms a coupling between players on different TEAMS on the basis of their race, when there shouldnt really be that distinction as all PvP games have only one PLAYABLE race and hence race specific things should not matter.

On the topic of convincing people that it takes "skill" to use EoE, thats hillarious, if the team using it doesnt even know what the outcome of it is going to be, then thats not skill to me. Its more like hey, if we meet a better team, we will have this as a "wildcard" and in the end if were loosing we might have this bomb going off killing everyone when we were down 5 to 8 and hopefully we can do something after that. Its dead PLAYERS that give you the victory not PETS/MINIONS.

Also if you think that I have misinterpreted something and therefore my logic is flawed, and that EoE is perfect as it is. Then think of this as an effort on my part to suggest some changes that are necessary in my opinion to the concerned skill, with the help of the guru community.

Fred Kiwi · Jan 02, 2006, 03:48 PM // 15:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by gotenks

Thats exactly my point. Where's the skill here? In my opinion when you PvP race does not matter as we only have humans as an availble option. Listen to what I am saying please. There are no races in PvP only Teams. EoE applies a PvE aspect of the game wrongly to PvP.

Lets Imagine that they have the finals of Guild Wars championship in the same format as HoH or something similar and in the end something like what you mentioned happens. Can you really say that the winning team did it with skill? Will the winning team after such a match really be world champions? Think about it

Well actually, gotenks, it is quite difficult to get a pug together to do this and make it work. I mean, you need rezmers and such to echo light of dwayna, but by the time they've done that surely a good monk would have healed up at least one person to go in and own the ranger?

Mitsu Bishi · Jan 02, 2006, 03:57 PM // 15:57

Nonetheless EoE seems to be bugged a bit, because you will get the damage even if you're not standing in the radius of EoE. The icon is clearly gone from the effects monitor and I'm about half an aggro away from where it ended, yet I'll get damaged for xx damage from EoE.

But apart from that range issue it is a viable skill and I don't see any problems with it. Sure it can be nasty but a good team won't allow it to get dropped, will kill it outright or take other counter-measures. Furthermore, Edge does nothing at all without people dying, so just stay alive

CAT · Jan 02, 2006, 04:19 PM // 16:19

There is nothign wrong with edge and this guy cant even prove something wrong with it. FYI it takes a few plinks to kill its not like the spirit cannot be stopped

xBakox · Jan 02, 2006, 04:23 PM // 16:23

Well I was doing Tombs the other day and there were 4 games where EoE was dropped. In one game all they did was drop it, one of their team died and all of the sudden we all died. In the others we all died but were victorious some how and the oter 2 we lost. Seemed a little broken teh first time, but the rest just seemed overpowered.

IMO I think EoE should only affect your profession or class. It would still be useful but not bombing whole teams (unless it was say....IWAY).

Former Ruling · Jan 02, 2006, 04:30 PM // 16:30

Mitsu - If you in range of someone who is in range of EoE - you'll likely take dmg lol. EoE has an unlisted ability to "jump" from 1 creature to someone outside EoE's range.

-----------------------------------

I think the OP is making us argument off the fact that in PvE there are many races of beings, but in PvP there are only 2 (Allied creatures, and Humans). So he thinks that this fact makes EoE alot more influencial to the outcome of the battle in PvP.

What he doesn't realize, is that in PvE also..Your likely only facing 1-2 of those races at a time anyway (where in the game do more than maybe 2 races come together and fight you WITHOUT killing each other first? very few places..I can think of maybe 2). So..EoE has the same effectiveness in that regards (it hitting everything your facing).

Where its different in PvP is the area - in PvP your confined to an arena - whose range is alot of the times only slightly bigger than EoE's reach. And the fact that it hurts you as well when you trigger it.

Thats the justification for it..You dmging everyone? You are dmging yourself too. You can counter that dmg? they can too..they just didn't. Thats like saying All hexses are overpowered because you didn't bring a hex removal skill.

chippxero · Jan 02, 2006, 04:35 PM // 16:35

I don't see the problem with it personally, a few hits and it's gone, plus someone should notice the guy putting it down and interupt.

Tyrent Frath · Jan 02, 2006, 04:40 PM // 16:40

first of all...it hurts your team just as much as it hurts the other team (unless you're running a specific EoE build, which actually shouldnt make it to HoH anyway.

Also...does anyone know what kind of damage EoE dishes out? could your use conflagaration (sp) of fire and winter? then mantra of frost?

SirJackassIII · Jan 02, 2006, 05:12 PM // 17:12

EoE's damage is like Holy or Shadow damage, it ignores armor, but I think Absorbtion reduces it.

Also, I think I read somewhere that EoE's range is broken, it was bigger than most spirits, but it just didn't show in the lefthand corner, while it was there. Could be false though.

Eder · Jan 02, 2006, 07:11 PM // 19:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by gotenks

There is only one playable race "Player vs Player" so you can say when a someone enters PvP it becomes your team vs the other team(s), where does the concept of race fit in here?

Tell me, then... what should the death of a minion/pet under EoE affect in PvP, if not the other minions/pets that are in range?

I have explained this already, as have other people - the fact that the other races present in PvP aren't directly controlled by players doesn't affect the fact that they are a part of PvP.

Hence, your "race is a PvE-only concept" argument is wrong. It's not that we don't understand what you're saying, it's that we don't agree with it because we all know for a fact that you are wrong. Any one of us can take 3 minutes to log on to GW, create a PvP R/N, and prove that there are creatures of different types participating in the same PvP match.

Wheter they're all directly controlled by players or not is a moot point. Why would it be okay for a skill to target all pets, and for another skill to target all minions, but oh wait a minute, what evil conspiracy is that, a skill that targets all humans? How am I supposed to avoid that? Because if I can't, then that's clearly overpowered! Call the police!

Quote:

Originally Posted by gotenks

EoE is a standout as it forms a coupling between players on different TEAMS on the basis of their race, when there shouldnt really be that distinction as all PvP games have only one PLAYABLE race and hence race specific things should not matter.

That's no standout at all - every spirit affects different teams based on their distance from the spirit... EoE doesn't affect any more people than any other spirit does. The only difference is that EoE has a second limit apart from distance, that limit is the creature type. So, while most spirits work on pets AND minions AND people all the time, EoE doesn't.

Eet GnomeSmasher · Jan 02, 2006, 08:10 PM // 20:10

I really can't believe someone has an issue with EoE. This HAS to be a practical joke being played by Gotenks.

There's really no point in addressing his points because there really are no points. They're just opinions. For example, his opinion that it takes no skill to use EoE. What he doesnt realize is that you don't just use that one skill alone but you build a team around it.

If you reduce ANY skill to just clicking away on it, then nothing takes skill. You could say healing takes no skill because all I'm doing is clicking the heal button.

Gotenks, you simply have no clue about what you're talking about. You've even admitted that you don't PVP much.

Mr. Smiles · Jan 02, 2006, 10:17 PM // 22:17

I mainly focus on PvE so I don't really have an opinion other than thinking it is funny as hell to see an EoE bomb go off while observing a halls match... One in particular had all three teams fighting in the middle, the american team was holding the altar, and all of a sudden someone died, BAM everyone dead with 1:30 left on the clock. So they just lay there till the timer ran out while the other observers and myself laughed our asses off. When the timer ran out the american team won and was revived to get the chest.

I wish i had fraps running for that...

hidden_agenda · Jan 02, 2006, 10:24 PM // 22:24

actually, after reading the above posts, IMO there are only two issues that Anet needs to take care of for EoE:

1. If a player / creature is outside the EoE effect, no EoE damage should happen (I thought I did see this problem when I was observing a Tomb match, but I am not sure. If someone can confirm this, then it's definitely a bug, and we should ask Anet to fix it).

2. If it's "systematic" action that did the damage, then EoE effect should not take place. I.E. if a match is time based and suddenly one team loses due to timeout, the victorious team should NOT take damage due to EoE from the death of the losing team -- that would seem clearly to be an unintended feature / bug that should be fixed...

Other than that I don't see any problems with EoE...

BigTru · Jan 02, 2006, 10:24 PM // 22:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by gotenks

On the topic of convincing people that it takes "skill" to use EoE, thats hillarious, if the team using it doesnt even know what the outcome of it is going to be, then thats not skill to me. Its more like hey, if we meet a better team, we will have this as a "wildcard" and in the end if were loosing we might have this bomb going off killing everyone when we were down 5 to 8 and hopefully we can do something after that.

It ISN'T random if you have skill and know how to use it. It's no more a "wildcard" than minions or Frozen soil.

twicky_kid · Jan 02, 2006, 10:25 PM // 22:25

EoE's range is as other stated. If you are within some one just out of range of eoe it will jump to you. If you spread everyone out in a line across the map then have 1 person die it will hit everyone inside and out of eoe's range.

People that yell "just kill the spirit" must not much exp vs eoe. Its always placed far behind their lines. If you go after it you are over extending your monks and putting them in a lot of danger. Just because you kill it does not mean you can stop another one from being laid. While you are after that spirit your team is being pounded on.

Spirit spamming rangers with oath shot are becoming more common. Just because you kill it doesn't stop it one bit. Since its chain is so fast only 2 skills can save you: Rof and MoP. Rof is iffy and no one brings mark unless its EoE protection.

I don't know what to do about it. You kill it you hurt you team chasing after it. You dont' kill it you hurt your team. There is no win answer.

Ristaron · Jan 02, 2006, 10:28 PM // 22:28

Before I descend into a fit of laughter again, I'll say that everything in this game must be an exploit if you use it properly.

Omg Chain lightning hit 3 people!!!111
expl0itz!!!1 admin fix plz!!!1 b4n th3m!!!!1

omg!!!11 wtf???2
h4x

borkbork · Jan 02, 2006, 10:32 PM // 22:32

Mending is an exploit!!!

It's like free health... ALL THE TIME.

Phrozen_ · Jan 03, 2006, 03:36 AM // 03:36

hehe eoe is kinda bs, we lucked out in this match.. if only one of our guys wouldve died, the chain wouldve wiped us all out.

http://members.optusnet.com.au/hlal1/eoe%201.JPG
http://members.optusnet.com.au/hlal1/eoe%202.JPG

btw thanks 'Soft Killing' for laying down the eoe

Viruzzz · Jan 03, 2006, 03:48 AM // 03:48

works great with minions/death nova

and its not the spirit itself doing damage (not until the person getting spiked die anyway