Curse

Eonwe · Jan 22, 2006, 05:58 PM // 17:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by M C H A M M E R

Heh, and most of you are hex users...

The point is, 20 AL and -40 Phys is a huge difference.

If you had read the thread you would realize that no, 20 AL and -40 against Physical on your helmet is not a huge difference.

nutsngum · Jan 22, 2006, 07:01 PM // 19:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fatty Fatty Boomballati

My god, I was just saying if they really feel that it is so overpowered that their weapons can't handle it why not just go grab it and not bother arenanet. They ar eprobably busy with Faction anyway.

Savio JUST TOLD YOU why people don't want to "just go and grab it". It takes time, resources, and alot of effort to get a pvp equivalent pve character. One of GW's premises was to have balanced PVP without the need for stupid amounts of grind. Getting a new PVE warrior to an equivalent PVP state (running, paying for items, farming for skill points, buying skills or questing for them, and capping elites) is precisely that - a stupid amount of grind. It's doubly stupid since it's likely that most of the people affected already have full unlocks.

Fatty Fatty Boomballati · Jan 23, 2006, 12:02 AM // 00:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by nutsngum

Savio JUST TOLD YOU why people don't want to "just go and grab it". It takes time, resources, and alot of effort to get a pvp equivalent pve character. One of GW's premises was to have balanced PVP without the need for stupid amounts of grind. Getting a new PVE warrior to an equivalent PVP state (running, paying for items, farming for skill points, buying skills or questing for them, and capping elites) is precisely that - a stupid amount of grind. It's doubly stupid since it's likely that most of the people affected already have full unlocks.

Yes but the people who make a pvp character also have acess to better weapons and w/e armor they want at no cost

So just let the pve people keep the small advantage they have.

Banebow · Jan 23, 2006, 12:38 AM // 00:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fatty Fatty Boomballati

So just let the pve people keep the small advantage they have.

And PvE players should have an advantage because. . .? I am drawing a blank here, the only thing I can think of is that you want a reward for your grind, you don't want to think that the PvP warrior who was rolled up in 15 minutes is equal to your PvE fissure armor warrior with 500 hours on him.

My guild did some tombs today. We fought against a team with a decent amount of hexes, enough that spiteful spirit could not always get taken off my warrior. But just imagine if I had had the lieutenant's helm on. Why, I could have attacked twice as much! When a PvE item could have made such a difference in the match, in a game were PvP and PvE characters are supposed to be equal, then we have a problem. Saying "deal with it" is foolish, if PvE players could get a skill that said "target player receives half duration of hexes" that PvP players could not get, it would be fixed immediatly. This is not that far different.

Savio · Jan 23, 2006, 12:52 AM // 00:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fatty Fatty Boomballati

Yes but the people who make a pvp character also have acess to better weapons and w/e armor they want at no cost

So just let the pve people keep the small advantage they have.

1. PvP characters don't have access to better weapons; in fact, PvE characters have far more choices, such as the +xx% always, -health/energy/regen weapons; shields with +health always and quick recovery from conditions; the -energy weapons and focii; and 10/10 fast cast/recharge all spells.

2. There's really no choice in Warrior armor except the color (or FoW armor if you felt like it.) Even if there was a choice, it wouldn't kill a PvE Warrior to bring two sets of armor. In fact, they already do for the helms, which is one of the reasons the Lieutenant's Helm is a problem.

3. Shortening hexes by 50%, or at least the assumption that every Warrior has that ability, is far from a small advantage if you bothered reading the 100-some posts before this. It's pretty much the only helm my Warrior's worn for the past few months, and I've happily enjoyed the Hexes that lasted only a few seconds.

I find it interesting that the Assassin armor includes inbuilt Deep Wound and Bleeding quick recovery mods. It seems Anet is moving to make much more diverse armor among the professions, and probably a nerfed Lieutenant's Helm available for PvP Warriors.

eht123 · Jan 23, 2006, 03:23 PM // 15:23

The helm is legit, and equipping it on the fly is no different from changing out any other piece of armor. Same for swapping weapons. You use what best fits the situation and the opponent you're against.

Remember, the helm has two significant disadvantages in exchange for its reduced hex duration: the loss of +1 to an attribute, and a substantial reduction in armor level. Anyone who thinks those are trivial has not spent much time playing a warrior. Besides, any hex a warrior really cares about is going to be removed in seconds by a decent team anyway, so the reduced duration is generally moot. Yes, he/she might just wait out a shortened phantasm - get over it, you're not going to kill anyone that way anyway.

I usually play a mesmer in PvP. Do I complain when someone switches weapon sets to try to defeat my e-denial? No, I adjust my strategy and compensate. Spellbreaker on my target? The team adjusts and compensates. Someone wearing a henge helm? Figure it out...

Akathrielah · Jan 23, 2006, 03:57 PM // 15:57

It's funny watching people STILL defend this helm even after all of the strong arguments against it.

Yes, it's a PvE advantage, so no it's not fair or balanced to begin with. PvP in this game was supposed to be as level as a playing field as possible, skill balancing and skill acquitsion aside, this is one of the main reasons why this isn't true.

Yes, that helm makes a significant difference, as it is forcing the enemy to reapply hexes twice as often than they normally would have too, or face having their hexes fade out quickly.

People are likening this helm to all sorts of spell or skill based counters to certain skills, this helm simply isn't, it's a free ticket, swap in when needed, remove when not, the extra damage recieved is negligable, I believe Ensign stated it was an extra 3~% extra damage. The temporary loss of the attribute point bonus that the other helms provide is also negligable, the amount of offensive capability loss pales in comparison to the advantage this helm brings.

Keyote · Jan 23, 2006, 04:02 PM // 16:02

edit: i'm wrong.

SaintGreg · Jan 23, 2006, 04:17 PM // 16:17

Quote:

So many people have gone and stocked up with them because it this, they cant possibly change it or we'll have another HoD item on the market.

Once the SoA bug was discovered, how long after the thread here was started before everyone had them. How long after till nobody had them

If anything, having more people go out and get them is the only way it will be nerfed.

Theus · Jan 23, 2006, 04:19 PM // 16:19

Last time I checked the duration of empathy at 16 domination was 21 seconds and the recharge was at 10.Same goes for Spiteful Spirit.

Whats stoping you from having it constantly on warriors again?

I think this thread was simply made by the N/Me's & Me/N's who cant use their SS/Empathy/Insidous Parasite combo effectively anymore.

Rhuobhe · Jan 23, 2006, 05:10 PM // 17:10

I think I speak for all PvE players when I say we don't really care much if the helmet is somehow not allowed in PvP.
But this crusade to have it nerfed is wrong. I wish ANet had MORE diversity in PvE. More cool items like the HoD Helm.

If we play PvE exclusivly, we don't give a rats ass about what goes on in PvP - as long as it doesn't ruin OUR game

PvPers wouldnt be too thrilled if PvE whining resulted in making PvP less enjoyable somehow.

I think it's in the interest of ALL players that PvP be balanced (for favor, etc) but a balance in PvP shouldn't mean a s*&t update that changes something that PvEers love.

On a side note, I hope factions doesn't turn the game towards PvP - I hope they continue to enrich the PvE environment

Linkie · Jan 23, 2006, 05:11 PM // 17:11

Well, there's a pretty big difference between keeping it up on 1 target and on 2 targets. Besides that, there's a lot of other hexes you want to be spreading around in this game.

I don't get why people can even argue against this, especially after the arguments that's been presented. It's amazing how many people consider this game a 1v1 game or every nerf Anet makes to be a vendetta against "their" class.

The retardness surfaced in this thread is mind numbing.

sleazeh · Jan 23, 2006, 06:47 PM // 18:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rhuobhe

I think I speak for all PvE players when I say we don't really care much if the helmet is somehow not allowed in PvP.
But this crusade to have it nerfed is wrong. I wish ANet had MORE diversity in PvE. More cool items like the HoD Helm.

If we play PvE exclusivly, we don't give a rats ass about what goes on in PvP - as long as it doesn't ruin OUR game

PvPers wouldnt be too thrilled if PvE whining resulted in making PvP less enjoyable somehow.

I think it's in the interest of ALL players that PvP be balanced (for favor, etc) but a balance in PvP shouldn't mean a s*&t update that changes something that PvEers love.

On a side note, I hope factions doesn't turn the game towards PvP - I hope they continue to enrich the PvE environment

I think that you, seemingly along with a number of others, have missed the point somewhat.

-the helmet IS allowed in PvP, it's just that to acquire it, you must do so with a PvE character. Once acquired, it can be accessed through storage, or the PvE character itself can be used. That's one of the main points of contention, is that it IS available for use in PvP, which in turn has its attendant balance (arguably?) affected.

-as pointed out by Ensign and others, balance is not, strictly speaking, the defining measure of PvE. Any half-assed player with a misunderstood and suboptimal build can succeed in 95% of the PvE areas, even using henchmen. The average PvE player celebrates and utilizes every advantage (even though none is needed) they can get to maximize the ease and brevity by which they can kill the AI monsters. It's not about challenge or balance. Its about stacking the odds as much as possible in your favor, odds which were already out of "balance" to start with.

The more broken an item is, or a skill, the more it is embraced, since it makes the task of getting from A to B, killing that much faster, in ever smaller groups, ever more easy. So when you talk about "ruining your game", what that really means is it is a perceived drop in the rate at which you overwhelm the AI enemies. Enemies against which you really don't need any increased advantage over.

I might add that I play both PvP as well as PvE, so I'm not a rabid anti-PvE agitator by any means; I enjoy both equally but for different reasons. But let's face it, with a little experience, a quasi-coherent party, and some knowledge of the enemies you face, PvE is for the most part fairly easy to dominate. An item that has severe balance issues in PvP being adjusted to rectify the problem surely won't "ruin" the game you love. You'll still be able to wipe the floor with the charr and the ettins and the mursaat, same as before.
But for the knowledgeable PvP player, it might mean rethinking not only the skillbar selection of any team build, but even the teambuilds themselves. It has a huge impact on the metagame of higher-end PvP.

viper008 · Jan 23, 2006, 07:04 PM // 19:04

Dear GOD Nerf life its too harsh/demanding, Why make everyhting easy for everyone with the nerf bat? Look at the deal with IWAY many people are crying its over powerd and now look at the forum you will see that players are finding ways to beat IWAY group/builds.

Nerfing everything takes the challange and sense of acopmlisment away when you beat these builds/groups.

I bet some of these people want things nerfed becuase they can't don't load a trainer like with many other gamess that will give them.

1: God mode
2: 1 hit kills
3: Always max health
4: Always max energy
etc

Linsys · Jan 23, 2006, 07:15 PM // 19:15

(comment above is very well put...)

IMO The ONLY reasons people want the Nerf Bat is because"

"Someone Lost To Someone Else Using [Spell] [Item] xxxx"

"Someone Thinks Their Build Is Unbeatable, and OPS Someone Has A better Build"

"Someone has an item, armor, money that I want but don't have... so Anet lets nerf more items and builds because if I can't have something no one can"

JR · Jan 23, 2006, 07:24 PM // 19:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by Linsys

(comment above is very well put...)

IMO The ONLY reasons people want the Nerf Bat is because"

"Someone Lost To Someone Else Using [Spell] [Item] xxxx"

"Someone Thinks Their Build Is Unbeatable, and OPS Someone Has A better Build"

"Someone has an item, armor, money that I want but don't have... so Anet lets nerf more items and builds because if I can't have something no one can"

Yeah, actually getting things tweaked so we can have a balanced game... The insanity! Nobody could possibly want that!

And Ensign, who as he said is going to Taipei partly on the back of three Henge helms.... He fits into which catagory in your post?

The simple truth is you are unable to comment on how unbalanced this item is untill you have been exposed to high level PvP, which is entirely the reason why I think this thread should be killed. Sleazeh put it perfectly in his post. If we keep the helm PvE players keep an item, PvP players lose game balance. It's as simple as that. As he pointed out, balance is really not as much of an issue in PvE. PvE players losing an item is absolutely trivial, compared to the positive change it would make to the balance of the PvP side of the game.

Make the helm 20%, problem solved.

Rhuobhe · Jan 23, 2006, 07:45 PM // 19:45

Actually, I think Battle Islands as a seperate map has some distinct advantages. Here is what I propose:

If you PvP, then you do so here as you normally would.

If you PvE and want to PvP then you can map here and all of your items/armor/weapons "dissapear" while at the Battle Islands.

You go to a weapon/armor crafter somewhere in Battle Islands and begin to construct weapons/armor that you want to use in PvP. (assuming said items/mods/skills/runes are unlocked)

This way, PvP characters would be equal to PvE characters in every way. No HoD helms for PvE, but on the same hand no crappy +14<50 swords with 1:1 vamp and +14 health mods with minor absorbtion and vigor either.

Allow PvE characters to compete fairly with PvP characters. For example can you blame a guy who doesn't want to delete a PvE character just to get a "free" sup absorbtion, vigor, and a +30 health mod/10% furious on his weapon?

As it stands, aside from "unique items" (which are few, IMO) PvE characters have a distinct disadvantage to PvP characters in a PvP setting.

If this is done, ANet could add 100's of unique/cool/sought after items to PvE without affecting PvP stuffs.

Lets level the playing feild, but do so for ALL GUILDWARS PLAYERS

JR · Jan 23, 2006, 07:50 PM // 19:50

But whats the difference between doing that, and just making a PvP character? I mean if you are going to strip down your PvE character and re-kit it out with PvP gear, why not just make a PvP character? It seems like a whole lot of work for very little effect to me.

Rhuobhe · Jan 23, 2006, 08:06 PM // 20:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by JR-

But whats the difference between doing that, and just making a PvP character? I mean if you are going to strip down your PvE character and re-kit it out with PvP gear, why not just make a PvP character? It seems like a whole lot of work for very little effect to me.

Because I, like many others have 4 PvE characters and 0 interest/intention in deleting them.

So if I like to PvE with a necro, monk, ele and warrior that means I should be at a distinct disadvantage when I decide to PvP unless I farm a lot and buy all the perfect mods/gear/runes?

"Delete a character or play an inferior one" Hardly seems "balanced" or "fair" to me

Seef II · Jan 23, 2006, 09:40 PM // 21:40

Quote:

So if I like to PvE with a necro, monk, ele and warrior that means I should be at a distinct disadvantage when I decide to PvP unless I farm a lot and buy all the perfect mods/gear/runes?

Yes.
It was your decision, and therefore your fault. You knew that there were four character slots only. Either pvp with your pve characters, delete and make a pvp toon, or wait until Factions for more slot(s).

Don't expect Anet to hold your hand through the whole game. PvE characters are usually "good enough" for most pvp, and as the whole Lt.'s Helm thing shows, even have an advantage.