Curse

Guardian of the Light · Jan 31, 2006, 03:02 PM // 15:02

HEAR ME ALL NUKERS!

Change your builds to a 1-hit AoE build with Mark of Ragort, Fireball, etc. This will make you more powerful and more popular.

There problem solved

MacD · Jan 31, 2006, 03:09 PM // 15:09

I just have to chime in, to add to what someone here has already mentioned: the 'wtf-effect'.

It's wierd how when you bring your mesmer into a party, that party is always amazed at how easily they beat mobs...you get the 'wow, we rock' replies in the chat, and these people don't seem to realise that the reason for that is the mesmer who is shutting the enemy down, stealing health/mana, degen-ing, interrupting and using all their dirty tricks. There's a reason why A-net programmed the mobs to go after mesmers and monks first (if that dumb W or pug doesn't know that you should send the W in solo to get the agro)...

People don't see what a mesmer does, they only see that the mobs drop superquick, and of course they think it's because they're so good...

Oh, and I always laugh when I see an interrupt mesmer who uses backfire

Either you interrupt, or you let the spell complete and do 150 dmg...you can't do both!

Kook~NBK~ · Jan 31, 2006, 03:21 PM // 15:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by MacD

Oh, and I always laugh when I see an interrupt mesmer who uses backfire

Either you interrupt, or you let the spell complete and do 150 dmg...you can't do both!

It is funny! - using them on the same target is a waste! I throw backfire on the monks and switch target to the damage dealers for the interrupts.

The game is all about knowing what skills to use, when to use them, where to use them, how to use them, and who to use them on!

Tricose · Jan 31, 2006, 03:42 PM // 15:42

ive been playing an ele since the start at first I was an aoe RED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GO with a smidgin of earth prot (armour of earth and one of my fav spells ward against melee). Ive played most well known ele builds and such and know I can change my build to suit any team (they need a water ele fine, fire fine, earth fine, air fine). so i have flexibility. however alot of eles i have seen stick with one type of build. ie air spiker, fire nuker. which is why ppl steriotype the eles and y ppl become tired of playing eles as they believe that they are easy and playing an ss necro is a lot easyer.

the thing is playing an ele is no longer an easy matter u have to think about wot u want to do and it seems a lot of ppl would rather not. I admit I got bored of eles and went and did other things. But I have always come back to my ele.

also as was mentioned about the warder I have played one several times most of which I was turned down. I had a good run tho with one team we nearly got to the hall. Infact we only lost as the ghostly hero died due to ganking and been boxed in a corner.

so I have one thing to say EXPERIMENT WITH YOUR BUILDS and don’t rely on one tactic all the time keep switching. That’s the fun u get out of the game.

antialias02 · Jan 31, 2006, 05:16 PM // 17:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by LordDeArnise

Leave the "Spiteful Spirit" to the Curses Necro.

Not all mesmers need to have nukes, or a fast form of healing. My first mesmer build over the summer was a Me/N, and at the high-end places, which was ToA-UW and FoW at the time, and back then, when the AI wasn't as smart as they are now, a good Chaos Storm and Shatter Hex did some nice nuking, although I never felt a Curse Spell like Barbs would be very useful when hexing a foe.

Now that the AI are smarter, a mesmer has to rely on interrupts and spells like Empathy, Backfire, Blackout, etc. True, a good group can use a Mesmer with secondary Monk or Nuking abilities, but I see other potential with mesmers using other classes, since my latest mesmer build is a Me/R. Maybe Warrior for melee support and using Illusionary Weaponry, Ranger for a pet, maybe some form of self-healing, or fast-casting spirits or traps, or the aforementioned Necro curse that add damage when Barbed then hexed.

Player skills, people.

I was being sarcastic when I mentioned Spiteful Spirit, in case you did not notice the sarcasm denotation.

A good mesmer is worth his weight in gold in any group with the right skills. My point was more along the lines that most people don't understand how powerful a good mesmer really is. I know my build, and it's solid. I've tried out all kinds of things - pairing up the Mesmer with every class to see what I can get him to do, and the possibilities are numerous. The point is that the only people who understand those possibilities are - you guessed it - other Mesmers......

Until recently, of course. There are those who see the virtue in asking a Mesmer along to FoW, but there are still too many Mesmers to fill the demand. I only go to FoW in my Guild group now because it's the only group I know for 100% will take me.

Also, regarding the 5 Man Group again: A typical "5 Man" group involves a certain kind of build setup that most people who run it are familiar with. And there's no room for a Main Mesmer in that "mindset." I'm not saying it couldn't happen that a Mesmer finds his way into a 5 Man farm (I managed it once), but you won't see people going "OMG LFG Mes for 5 Man."

From a good amount of playing experience, the mesmer is powerful but underrated. You seemed to have been implying that even I did not understand what a Mes was good for, which would be an incorrect assumption on your part. I'm just tired of having it take 20 -30 minutes to find any group with my Mesmer that would take 2 with my Monk.

Quote:

Oh, and I always laugh when I see an interrupt mesmer who uses backfire

Either you interrupt, or you let the spell complete and do 150 dmg...you can't do both!

I run a Domination Mesmer build sometimes that includes Backfire. As Kook mentioned, the discerning Mesmer will throw it on a Monk or Necro before returning to a primary target. It's not out of the question for a Dom Mes to carry it with an interrupt build, if used correctly.

Raptox · Jan 31, 2006, 06:07 PM // 18:07

I'm using all Mesmer skills on my Ele right now. It's just more fun.

I know I can't use Mesmer runes, which kinda stinks, but I seem to be doing fine even on the energy management front. Guilt and Shame are essential, and Energy Storage certainly doesn't hurt.

I like the flexibility of the E/Me combo. You can really play any possibility well.

draxynnic · Feb 01, 2006, 02:29 AM // 02:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by MacD

Oh, and I always laugh when I see an interrupt mesmer who uses backfire

Either you interrupt, or you let the spell complete and do 150 dmg...you can't do both!

Guilty.

I don't do it with a pure interrupt build, however, but I do do it occasionally when the enemy has a couple of little spells that they spam backed up with something big - the Backfire punishes them for the little spells that aren't worth interrupting, but when they start casting the big, nasty, long-casting-time spell that just shouts "Interrupt Me!" you don't have to just sit there and watch that bar fill up...

R_Frost · Feb 01, 2006, 02:58 AM // 02:58

Ele's arent bad just people playing them terrible which is probably the cause for the drop off. i dont have a primary Ele but my Mesmer and Ranger both have Ele for a secondary. getting my warrior through the lower levels has at times been difficult due to Ele's that still havent learned to leave firestorm off their skills or casting it at the wrong time. its a real pain to try and fight 3 or 4 at once and just as your ready to cyclone axe the group a firestorm comes raining in. i had a primary Ele for a bit but just never came to like it after being spoiled buy the Mesmer's fastcasting. i may try one again sometime but i need to finish my warrior and necro first to go along with my lvl 20 Ranger, Monk and Mesmer

sh4ft3d · Feb 01, 2006, 03:36 AM // 03:36

IMO eles are, and will always be one of the best support classes, as will mesmer. The point of eles is not just to deal massive amounts of damage. As you can see from reading other posts on this topic, eles are much more versatile than that. My favorite skill set is all taken from the earth and domination skill sets. With the right attributes, a geomancer can tank much more effectively than any warrior can. (armor of earth, obsidian flesh, magnetic aura with glyph of renewal, all the while with channeling and earth attunement). With those stats at 16 earth, nothing can touch you.
EDIT: my bad. channeling is from inspiration

Avarre · Feb 01, 2006, 05:12 AM // 05:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ayres_Spellbinder

I play a Mes/E. I've used it alot as an Echo Nuker. Ppl see a Mes and say you cannot huke because you don't have 16 in fire. To this I say bs. There's something I have that Ele's don't, it's called fast casting. Then they say I don't have enough energy to be effective, to that I say bs as well.

No... just no.

12 fire spells hurt about as much as wand attacks in high-end pvp. Fast casting isn't even a consideration (oh noes, a 2/3 second fireball instead of a 1s fireball?).

Me/E for direct elemental damage is, in my opinion, one of the most worthless classes, because you'd even have more use as a domination nuker. And I've played just about every form of mesmer there is.

In PvE that is... in PvP fastcast nukers have some merits, I suppose.

Eles are dying out of some PvE.. I'd always like a decent air spiker to help with shadow monks, but thats a severe depreciation of a class with many capabilities.

Bleidd · Feb 01, 2006, 05:48 AM // 05:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by antialias02

Also, regarding the 5 Man Group again: A typical "5 Man" group involves a certain kind of build setup that most people who run it are familiar with. And there's no room for a Main Mesmer in that "mindset." I'm not saying it couldn't happen that a Mesmer finds his way into a 5 Man farm (I managed it once), but you won't see people going "OMG LFG Mes for 5 Man."

You pretty much hit the nail on the head with this one I think. There isn't room for anyone not falling into category XYZ. Its like a certain element of the playerbase seems to only run with what works and God forbid they might have to attempt something that hasn't been already posted on a message board. Its ironic in a way, given the absolute joke that are death penalties in this game.

My other character is a Warrior, and I only play him with my friend's Mesmer. I know firsthand how fast things drop with a capable Mesmer in the group. It seems to be the same case for my Geomancer; whenever I get her in a group everyone switches into "we kick so much ass"-mode, as if they're blissfully unaware as to what all those flashing lights I'm dropping are doing for us. Its not an ego thing; I'm not asking for personal recognition. But in the case of Mesmers and support Elementalists, it'd be nice if it was a little more... I dunno, more of a known thing to people, what they're bringing to the group.

Plague · Feb 01, 2006, 06:09 AM // 06:09

Depends on the area you're in. With mobs, I'm not fond of having mesmers around just because they're excellent at one on one, but aren't really the best at raping mobs with most builds. But, if I'm heading into something like, say, Abaddon's Mouth, sure, they're probably the best thing to cart around next to a monk.

Elementalists though... I'm not fond of playing them to begin with, with all the useful spells requiring 25 energy and causing exhaustion and all that. Having one in my group is usually a no-no since "nukers" STILL want to use AoE spells. Why no one uses Flame Burst, Phoenix, Fireball, etc to do a very high amount of damage to tight groups I'll never know. It's like Firestorm is their security blanket that they refuse to let go of.

Lady Lozza · Feb 01, 2006, 06:27 AM // 06:27

OMG lol and I thought I was the only one

I've been running a RI build with my ele since the AoE changes and no one will have me in a group except for my guild because they WILL FAIL without an echo/renewal MS. It doesn't matter how much success I've had with my build, that I never need energy, or that I never get exhausted. Apparently I'm not effective enough without being an echo/renwal MS nuker

Same thing with mesmers, you have to be e-surge because that does damage. Doesn't matter that there are other builds out there which do things which help the GROUP take down the enemy faster, like the nasty, nasty condition spreading builds.

Once again necros are in the same boat, SS or MM. Period.

I think the problem lies in the fact that players seem to want to be 1337 asap rather than taking the time to learn what the skills do and the best way to use them. Just look at all the people in town begging for money, they don't want to farm because it takes too long, and all sorts of other excuses.

Sadly I think the crux of the issue is that the general maturity level of the players in GW is ridiulously low (in spite of the average player age). Most players just don't seem to understand that it is a GAME, something you do in your free time because it is fun and (supposedly) relaxing.

Now, when making a team, the things I am wary against is:

1) Players in a rush
2) Players who want a certain team build
3) Players who complain about certain professions
4) Players who use "noob", or too much 1337 speak
5) Players who boast
6) Players who want to know guild standing or rank
7) Players who refuse to take res
8) Players who refuse to talk about skills and general group integration
9) Players who don't respond to a question directed at them

These apply equally to PvP and PvE, and following these rules I (generally) end up in a fun-loving, fairly well co-ordinated and successful team.

antialias02 · Feb 01, 2006, 06:44 AM // 06:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by Avarre

No... just no.

12 fire spells hurt about as much as wand attacks in high-end pvp. Fast casting isn't even a consideration (oh noes, a 2/3 second fireball instead of a 1s fireball?).

Me/E for direct elemental damage is, in my opinion, one of the most worthless classes, because you'd even have more use as a domination nuker. And I've played just about every form of mesmer there is.

In PvE that is... in PvP fastcast nukers have some merits, I suppose.

Eles are dying out of some PvE.. I'd always like a decent air spiker to help with shadow monks, but thats a severe depreciation of a class with many capabilities.

I use my Me/E as a fastcast nuker with twin attunements all the time in PvE when I feel like being a damage-dealer, as a bit of a change of pace. It's effective if you can run it well. And if the attunement strips, no big. Just disengage when you can and slap it back on.

Whereas in PvP, if that attunement strips, you're far more likely to drop. And it's far more likely to strip in PvP than in PvE anyway. I dunno. All I'm saying is don't knock it until you've tried it. The Fire Cannon build is quite powerful in both realms of play.

Kook~NBK~ · Feb 01, 2006, 06:47 AM // 06:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lady Lozza

Now, when making a team, the things I am wary against is:

1) Players in a rush
2) Players who want a certain team build
3) Players who complain about certain professions
4) Players who use "noob", or too much 1337 speak
5) Players who boast
6) Players who want to know guild standing or rank
7) Players who refuse to take res
8) Players who refuse to talk about skills and general group integration
9) Players who don't respond to a question directed at them

These apply equally to PvP and PvE, and following these rules I (generally) end up in a fun-loving, fairly well co-ordinated and successful team.

Nice list, to which I would add "Players who use profanity in chat." and "Players who are bossy."

Barinthus · Feb 01, 2006, 06:56 AM // 06:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lady Lozza

1) Players in a rush
2) Players who want a certain team build
3) Players who complain about certain professions
4) Players who use "noob", or too much 1337 speak
5) Players who boast
6) Players who want to know guild standing or rank
7) Players who refuse to take res
8) Players who refuse to talk about skills and general group integration
9) Players who don't respond to a question directed at them

Amen!

And kudos to players who are willing to attempt 'abnormal' ways of playing their classes.

I'm a Water/Earth ele and I just love playing that combination. As an odd-ball player I have respect for fellow oddballs.

Keep it up and ignore those players who are stuck with the group mindset.

strcpy · Feb 01, 2006, 09:22 AM // 09:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bleidd

My other character is a Warrior, and I only play him with my friend's Mesmer. I know firsthand how fast things drop with a capable Mesmer in the group. It seems to be the same case for my Geomancer; whenever I get her in a group everyone switches into "we kick so much ass"-mode, as if they're blissfully unaware as to what all those flashing lights I'm dropping are doing for us. Its not an ego thing; I'm not asking for personal recognition. But in the case of Mesmers and support Elementalists, it'd be nice if it was a little more... I dunno, more of a known thing to people, what they're bringing to the group.

Support almost never gets what it needs. This is true in real life, even more so in game life. "Invisible" stuff is, well, invisible and no one notices.

If you work a large enough company ever compliment your System Administrator? Janitor? Or other support offices? Probably not - but they are what makes a company work vs not work. When they do thier jobs really well you will never see them, things will just be clean or your computer systems will just work. It's not uncommon to find companies that decide because they haven't had problem in the past you can drop/reduce those types of departments - never mind the reason you have had no problems is because they are well staffed. Of course, without those roles it's quickly felt and a smart group/company will understand this for the future.

If you choose to go that route (in professional life or gaming life) it's just something you have to learn to accept. You can usually show the unbelievers by pointing out how well things worked when you did you job, then not do it, and point out the difference. Some will get mad, but then that's not a group/company you want to do that role with and your better off without them.

Personally I enjoy the "support" classes. For one I like noticing that I'm frustrating an enemy player or shutting down a mob. Even my w/mo tends towards stances and more of a support type role. The other type I like is the Nuker, though the AOE change has made that somewhat less effective (it can still be done though, just not as big).

draxynnic · Feb 01, 2006, 11:38 AM // 11:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by antialias02

I use my Me/E as a fastcast nuker with twin attunements all the time in PvE when I feel like being a damage-dealer, as a bit of a change of pace. It's effective if you can run it well. And if the attunement strips, no big. Just disengage when you can and slap it back on.

Whereas in PvP, if that attunement strips, you're far more likely to drop. And it's far more likely to strip in PvP than in PvE anyway. I dunno. All I'm saying is don't knock it until you've tried it. The Fire Cannon build is quite powerful in both realms of play.

Heh. That's much like what I do when my Me/E feels like playing her secondary, except I go lightning-cannon (Lightning Orb, Enervating Charge, and Lightning Strike) instead of fire cannon with a few utility spells from the Mesmer side (such as defensive mantras and the oh-no-I'm-not-letting-you-get-THAT-off interrupt I usually try to have loaded). Once she starts picking on something it usually goes down fast - and between Air Attunement and energy-regain skills such as Energy Drain, she can usually keep it up for a while.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Plague

Elementalists though... I'm not fond of playing them to begin with, with all the useful spells requiring 25 energy and causing exhaustion and all that. Having one in my group is usually a no-no since "nukers" STILL want to use AoE spells. Why no one uses Flame Burst, Phoenix, Fireball, etc to do a very high amount of damage to tight groups I'll never know. It's like Firestorm is their security blanket that they refuse to let go of.

Well, I use Phoenix and Inferno, to devastating effect when I get to 'softer' targets, but then I use them on a W/E

. I guess Phoenix and Flame Burst require getting a leetle too close for the liking of most Elementalists... Still, Fireball and Rodgort's Invocation are quite respectable nuking options.

Oh well, Darwin's laws state that sooner or later they will either adapt or die off...

Avarre · Feb 01, 2006, 11:50 AM // 11:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by antialias02

All I'm saying is don't knock it until you've tried it. The Fire Cannon build is quite powerful in both realms of play.

*cough* I have tried it, that's where I get my fanatical hatred of it from. Conjure flame + wand = more damage than fastcast fire nuker, and against things with high armor (FoW etc) it is extremely apparent that you're basically a glorified wander.

In PvE, fast casting is not a requirement for nuking. In FoW, there are only 3 monsters that have interrupts (5 if you count knockdowns), and you should be holding the aggro of none as a mesmer.

Sure the build works. Conjure phantasm works. Mending works too. Gonna stop on that though because I'll never, ever stop fighting Me/E nukers, and it'll get spammy and out of point

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lady Lozza

Same thing with mesmers, you have to be e-surge because that does damage. Doesn't matter that there are other builds out there which do things which help the GROUP take down the enemy faster, like the nasty, nasty condition spreading builds.

Odd... I haven't used surge in PvE or organized PvP in several months, and I've never been asked to equip it by anyone.

coolsti · Feb 01, 2006, 12:42 PM // 12:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tarkin

Mesmers have cool skills, i dont have a mesmer, but i love to use they skill like secondary, they have lotssssssssss of good skills, like Fevered Dreams, very niceeeeeeeeee, u can put -10 deg fast in all group of foes... but no one think, just copy, past builds from others... Mantra of Resolve, Channeling, Sympathetic Visage, Shatter Hex, here we have a mesmer nuker... weak against casters strong against brute force...
Sadly people just copy and past builds... well i happy play alone, or with my guild we use very very diferent strategys and have the same or better results and if someone want to play a mesmer we make a mesmer strategy, someone want play a necro? So many builds!
Dont blame a profession...

This thread is primarily about Elementalists, but I see a lot of responses focusing on Mesmers as well. I've noticed that very very very few, if any, advertisements for party members in the new Tombs area are directed to Mesmers. It is very easy to get into a group as Elementalist but I think it is near impossible as mesmer. And that is just too bad, because I have successfully completed this with my Mesmer + 7 henchies several times, and in friends groups with 2 Mesmers in the group. Currently my favorite is part anti-warrior (empathy, clumsiness, ineptitude) and part interrupter (power leak, power spike) along with chaos storm to spread the enemy when they get too close. This is a good build because empathy, clumsiness and ineptitude give good damage to spellcasters as well (they are attacking between spells).

I would so much like to do the new UW with my Mesmer with different Pug groups, but, alas, it seems too difficult to convince the masses to take a Mesmer along.