Curse

Athis Strider · Feb 19, 2006, 08:56 PM // 20:56

I'de rather pay a Shadow Monk first.

Sab · Feb 19, 2006, 08:58 PM // 20:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sk8tborderx

Bascially all you pay for is a monk who is no better than 90% of the monks that are that far into the game. They talk like they are great healers but as soon as they make a mistake it is suddenly everyone elses fault because they are too good to make mistakes.

These monks for hire have bigger egos then most people in PvP. (They are also terrible monks). Most of the monks for hire out there also need to complete the mission anyway and will lie and say they have done it before, they just charge now because they see so many groups wanting a monk and think it will be a good idea.

That's a rather broad statement.

Kook~NBK~ · Feb 19, 2006, 09:03 PM // 21:03

Want to increase the number of monks availiable in the high-end missions? Treat them with respect and stop blaming them everytime someone screws up and dies! (It's ususally the knot-head that died that's pointing the finger, BTW) I don't mind playing my monk from time to time, but hearing people whine and complain because I can't save them from their own stupidity keeps me from playing my Monk as often as i do.

And yes, I realize there are Monks out there that aren't that good, but that's true in every profession. This has been testified to many times in this very thread. People over-aggroing instead of letting someone with a longbow pull (My Warrior carries one just for that purpose

), ele's, mesmers, and necros who think they can tank, etc. And always beware of anyone who says "I know what I'm doing." Because they ususally DON'T, and they often have no idea what anyone else is doing!

Warskull · Feb 19, 2006, 09:48 PM // 21:48

The reason monks for hire exist is because some players want to pay for monks. I have seen people offer to pay monks because they have difficulty drawing a monk to their group. A really good monk doesn't need you to finish the missions. I have found the hencmen consistantly do the job better than most players. They are annoying as hell because all of the henchmen are absolutely horrible, but many players are far worse.

Remember monks are one of two professions that can really carry a team. A single really good monk can keep your team alive extremely well and even compensate for a degree of stupidity and overagro. I know I have carried a team many times myself (other monks on the team being dead weight.) A good monk can perform extremely well on the ropes and make excellent judgement calls.

In addition the job as a monk is thankless, there are many times where I have had to pull a team out of horrible situations focus swapping, mid battle ressing, having to run through the enemy to escape so I can rez later, nearly killing myself with double infuses, ect. The best I get is the warrior declaring "Man, I am the best warrior ever!" Monks don't enjoy dealing with PuGs for a reason. When something gets wrong they get all the blame and when they do everything right they don't get any credit. If you want to be able to pick up, free, decent PuG monks start learning to treat them better.

Eclair · Feb 19, 2006, 09:51 PM // 21:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sk8tborderx

I have an idea, everyone charge money to join a group to offer your 'services'.

See, that wouldn't work at all simply for the fact that for every one that charges, there'd be 10 more that would join the group without charge.

Let's take a look at the other classes:

Mesmers: some people have said that the mesmers should be the ones who pay to join a PUG. Sadly, it seems its quite true, as most PUGs have no idea how useful mesmers are. The fact that mesmers are a much harder class to play than the other classes doesn't help the image either.

Elementalists: Highly favored until the the recent AoE nerf, now not very popular in most missions (except for Tombs, UW, etc, where people sort of know what they're doing). If they start charging, most people would just kick them and find another elementalist who would love to get a group, or even just one of the bajillion warriors standing around in each mission.

Rangers: They were never really that popular in PUG missions, and still aren't. Many groups would rather take their 5th warrior than add a single ranger.

Necros: Huge rise in popularity with SS/Sv, or even massive minions, could possibly charge money if they were scarce.

Warriors: Probably something like 50% of the players in Guild Wars are warriors. One charges? Boot him and get another. There's plenty to choose from.

As you can see, monks are pretty much the only class that can currently get away with charging fees for a "service" simply because there is this demand for them, coupled with the limited supply for them. In the eyes of most PUGs, any other class can be replaced by warriors, and there's more than enough warriors to go around.

Linsys · Feb 19, 2006, 10:37 PM // 22:37

My 2 cents:

Most PUG monks suck.... period... I'm a monk and I will generally monk for an entire group and take one henchie for backup support. Since most pugs think they need to mix prot/heal/smite and attack lol monks... lol monks...

If I'm not on my monk I would have NO problem paying a GOOD monk like my self to do a mission with me.. however the problem is how do I know the monk is good? I don't.... that is the problem... IMO is the monk is good why do they need 2k for a mission? A mission I've already complted for 2k isn't worth my time.. since I can solo I rather make money like that then running missions for people for 2k...

If the monk is good I doubt they need the money for missions..

On the other hand I think its WRONG for monks who have NOT completed a mission to charge for services, they problem suck anyway, so I would stay away from them.

Riotact · Feb 20, 2006, 05:38 AM // 05:38

Theres not a lack of Monks. They r just all at Augury Rock.

Go there and sit at the exit and watch the griffin farming monks. I bet u cant count to 10 without a monk running out the door.

Lets Get to Healing · Feb 20, 2006, 05:46 AM // 05:46

Paying monks to heal is OK
Im going to offcially start ppl allowing to flame runners. i mean! come on running and charging ppl!!!!!! thats . . . .thats DISGUSTING! *Aims flame gun* BAM BAM

(/sarcasm)

KurtTheBehemoth · Feb 20, 2006, 06:38 AM // 06:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by Eclair

Think of it this way, pretty much every mission can be henched, and that was A-nets goal, so that you can solo through every mission.

Technically you are right, but have you ever tried to use henchies near lava and swamps. They aren't programmed to understand "Uhoh I'm standing in 3000 degree molten rock. I had better move. " In this case, unless you have extreme experience in controlling the henchies positions then you are gonna be frustrated. I want real players for these missions and I am gonna be forced to pay someone to just do their job. That's total BS. Again the answer is. Why don't you have a guild by the time you get to THK and ROF? and Why aren't they helping you?

MinaDrakul · Feb 20, 2006, 06:40 AM // 06:40

I'm with King Symeon here. I have played a monk, have taken the abuse that most monks have. I don't think it is right to pay a monk to do what a monk does. If that is the case, then I can start charging for my Battery necro. A wa/mo can charge for his tanking services,and an ele for his nuking (or warding) abilities. Just something to think about. A monk who enjoys the game and enjoys playing the monk wil not ask to be paid. Why? Because they enjoy it.

Eclair · Feb 20, 2006, 06:51 AM // 06:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by KurtTheBehemoth

Technically you are right, but have you ever tried to use henchies near lava and swamps. They aren't programmed to understand "Uhoh I'm standing in 3000 degree molten rock. I had better move. " In this case, unless you have extreme experience in controlling the henchies positions then you are gonna be frustrated. I want real players for these missions and I am gonna be forced to pay someone to just do their job. That's total BS. Again the answer is. Why don't you have a guild by the time you get to THK and ROF? and Why aren't they helping you?

However, think of it this way, what if there were no monks in the area? Would you wait forever until a monk comes to do the mission? Or would you take henches or even not take monks at all? Now think of it this way, there are 4 groups all trying to get through the mission, but none of them have monks. Suddenly, a monk comes, now which of the four groups should he choose to join?

You can't divide a single monk 4 ways, and he obviously doesn't want to come back and do it 4 times for each group. He could randomly choose a group, but then, perhaps some groups ares more in "want" of a monk than the other groups. Thus, the groups who would "want" the monk the most would in some way have to entice the monk to join them, and thus the payment.

The other groups could try to outbid if they really "want" the monk, but then, if they realize they value their gold more, then they'd either wait for another or just take the henchies. And thus, people developed the habit of paying for monks, and monks developed the habit of getting paid to get through missions.

Sure there are people who would never charge and just randomly choose a group, but then of course, there's nothing abnormal in having a monk choose a group that offers him money as opposed to nothing.

It basically comes down to the fact that there is not enough monks to go around, and whoever wants to have the monks in their groups the most are willing to pay for it. The only thing A-Net can do about it is to somehow make it more enticing to play monks, or completely rebalance the game so that the other classes can beat missions without monks, but without making the monk completely useless.

Destruction Exile · Feb 20, 2006, 06:56 AM // 06:56

Did you think before you made this topic.... ppl souldnt pay monks because monks cannot do missions without tankers or other people to begin with. Unless your 55, your depended on a party or henchies.

MinaDrakul · Feb 20, 2006, 07:00 AM // 07:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by Destruction Exile

Did you think before you made this topic.... ppl souldnt pay monks because monks cannot do missions without tankers or other people to begin with. Unless your 55, your depended on a party or henchies.

A very good point. While it is impossible/extremely hard to do things without a monk, so it is to do without a warrior/ranger/etc to take damage. This a game meant to be played with multiple people, thus why it is online and MMORPG ( or a CORPG or whatever you want to call it). There are very few things that can be done truly solo.

Whispering Siren · Feb 20, 2006, 07:04 AM // 07:04

Unfortunately, a lot of people seem to over-value some professions and under-value the others... too bad they haven't realized that a balanced group is (by far) the best and most fun.

But anyway - if you want to pay a monk to get you through the mission, pay Mhenlo and Lina (as they do take a portion of the gold) - their AI is better than other players' AI at times.

Personally, I'd never pay a player to join my group (any player, ever) - if someone is demanding money, I probably won't like their personality much anyways and wouldn't enjoy trying to work with them. (Read: if they think they're important/good enough to demand money for their "services," they're a bit full of themselves and probably not fun to be around).

Harmony · Feb 20, 2006, 07:21 AM // 07:21

I play a monk because I enjoy it, plain and simple. I would never consider charging for my services, and monks that do tend to tick me off..royally. Why? Because all monks tend to be judged by their actions, and that is honestly, not fair. But..such is life.

On the converse side, I do find it rather amusing that it has become so popular to 'flame' monks while lauding the praises of the henchie ones (no offense Mhenlo, Lina, and Aleshia). Henchies do indeed have their uses, in fact, I myself, make use of them quite frequently. However, if there is absolutely 'no use' for REAL monks, then why do I find myself bombarded with invites the minute I reach an area, and why are so many people standing around spamming "group lf monk"? Just a thought. Cheers.

KurtTheBehemoth · Feb 20, 2006, 07:32 AM // 07:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by Eclair

You can't divide a single monk 4 ways, and he obviously doesn't want to come back and do it 4 times for each group. He could randomly choose a group, but then, perhaps some groups ares more in "want" of a monk than the other groups. Thus, the groups who would "want" the monk the most would in some way have to entice the monk to join them, and thus the payment.

Hey look, someones playing the what if game, let me join in. What if because monks charging became so popular that word got back to Ascalon and even the brand new players adopted this mentallity. Now a level 3 monk thinks its perfectly acceptable to charge other noobs who don't know any better and will pay.

"Jealousy turns to greed. Greed turns to hate. Hate turns into suffering." -Yoda

coolsti · Feb 20, 2006, 09:37 AM // 09:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by KurtTheBehemoth

Technically you are right, but have you ever tried to use henchies near lava and swamps. They aren't programmed to understand "Uhoh I'm standing in 3000 degree molten rock. I had better move. " In this case, unless you have extreme experience in controlling the henchies positions then you are gonna be frustrated. I want real players for these missions and I am gonna be forced to pay someone to just do their job. That's total BS. Again the answer is. Why don't you have a guild by the time you get to THK and ROF? and Why aren't they helping you?

This is an area where the AI definitely needs improving. One of the things that can be a showstopper with henchy monks is when they start to res people in a lava field. If the henchy monks are the only ones in the party that can res, then mission over. However, usually there is at least one human party member that has Monk as secondary. And in this case that party member can do a rebirth or whatever to solve this problem. Because of this, I always switch my character's secondary to Monk whenever I go out in parties of only henchies.

These AI problems with swamps and lava fields can indeed make things difficult when using henchies, in particular henchy monks. But only rarely does the situation become impossible. It just takes a bit more effort on the part of the human players regarding positioning to keep the henchies out of danger. At any rate, I will take henchy monks any day rather than waiting for that non-existent monk to join the party, and instead of using a Monk for hire.

Eclair · Feb 20, 2006, 05:25 PM // 17:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by KurtTheBehemoth

Hey look, someones playing the what if game, let me join in. What if because monks charging became so popular that word got back to Ascalon and even the brand new players adopted this mentallity. Now a level 3 monk thinks its perfectly acceptable to charge other noobs who don't know any better and will pay.

"Jealousy turns to greed. Greed turns to hate. Hate turns into suffering." -Yoda

Based on the current conditions of this game, people generally will always gravitate towards actions that will be in some way or another be based on greed. You're not going to convince the people who are already acting this way to stop just by saying its immoral, the only way to curb it is like I said, for A-net to take action and change the game so that either there's more of a incentive to play monks or there's even less of a need for real monks.

Unless you do something about the causes, monks demanding cash will always exist. The shortage of monks in the later missions is a undeniable FACT, and even people who normally wouldn't charge money would have more incentive to with a group that offers money as to offering nothing.

Greed is part of human nature, some people might have better control over it than others, but it is still the fundamental mentality that our current society is based on.

Medion · Feb 20, 2006, 08:51 PM // 20:51

Quote:

Did you think before you made this topic.... ppl souldnt pay monks because monks cannot do missions without tankers or other people to begin with. Unless your 55, your depended on a party or henchies.

That is the reason why I would never pay any monk for this 'service'. I would rather go monkless then pay for a monk.

This thread however inspires me to go to THK and look if anyone would be willing to pay my ranger to join

ERMC · Feb 21, 2006, 12:05 AM // 00:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by Harmony

On the converse side, I do find it rather amusing that it has become so popular to 'flame' monks while lauding the praises of the henchie ones (no offense Mhenlo, Lina, and Aleshia). Henchies do indeed have their uses, in fact, I myself, make use of them quite frequently. However, if there is absolutely 'no use' for REAL monks, then why do I find myself bombarded with invites the minute I reach an area, and why are so many people standing around spamming "group lf monk"? Just a thought. Cheers.

you are bombarded because

1. players have a negative view of henches
2. most players don't know how to use the hench effectively

every mission can be done with hench I myself beat Hell's and bonus with 7 hench and me on my mesmer and THK is ridiculously easy with hench(i have heard people saying that they done every bonus with hench but i don't know that for a fact). They follow targets, you retreat they will to, just make sure to bring a longbow to pull and you will be fine with them.

as for people charging for monking i don't care what other people do with there money. If they want to pay for monks go ahead doesn't effect me in anyway. I have a monk finished the game and i couldn't care less about all the monk abuse i took. If people have a negative view of all monks because of the ones that charge so what, let them think what they want, monks have no problem finding groups and add the good people to your friends list and you will be fine.