Curse

The Great Al · Feb 27, 2006, 05:03 PM // 17:03

we're not getting 4 new slots, at this point i'll be happy with two....i just dont think itll be fair that by the time chapter 3 or chapter 4 come out, that playing separately will give you 12 - 16 slots, but together we'll get what...6?

Loviatar · Feb 27, 2006, 05:23 PM // 17:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Great Al

we're not getting 4 new slots, at this point i'll be happy with two....i just dont think itll be fair that by the time chapter 3 or chapter 4 come out, that playing separately will give you 12 - 16 slots, but together we'll get what...6?

if they give us one slot for each new profession by chapter 4 we will have 10 slots.

and somebody picking up chapter 4 will have no more than we do and have 12 professions same as we do except 10 will be gimped and only the chapter 4 new characters will be able to be fully developed for them

new buyers will NEVER have more slots than a returning player

Katari · Feb 27, 2006, 06:01 PM // 18:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by Loviatar

if they give us one slot for each new profession by chapter 4 we will have 10 slots.

and somebody picking up chapter 4 will have no more than we do and have 12 professions same as we do except 10 will be gimped and only the chapter 4 new characters will be able to be fully developed for them

new buyers will NEVER have more slots than a returning player

Thats interesting. You quote him and then say something totally irrelevent as if you're proving him wrong. Lets review.

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Great Al

we're not getting 4 new slots, at this point i'll be happy with two....i just dont think itll be fair that by the time chapter 3 or chapter 4 come out, that playing separately will give you 12 - 16 slots, but together we'll get what...6?

Allright, if we keep out accounts seperate, we agree that Factions + Prophecies will equal 8 slots, yes? So following that logic, fast forward to ch 4, if we kept out accounts seperate, we would have sixteen slots. Now, if we got one new slot upon merging each account, by chapter four we would have seven slots. Thats it, seven slots, and twelve professions. If we got one slot per new chapter, the percentage of primarys we could potentialy have would decrease with each chapter. If we got two slots per new chapter, we would indeed have ten slots, and it would still be too little, altough the percentage of primarys obtainable on one account would increase.

Lovitar, I don't think anyone will disagree with you, that people who buy factions first will be just as well off (In terms of current content) as people who bought prophecies first. Is is such a basic idea that I can't see anyone arguing it. It is also totally irrelevent to Al's post.

Regardless, unless Alex was lying or trying to mislead us, I think it is safe to conclude that we will get more than one slot when we merge accounts. Of course, that could mean we'd get two, which would still be to little. Three I could deal with, and heck, If they added three with Ch2, and three with Ch3, but only added two on Ch4+, I'd almost be ok with it. Since I would have enough slots at last. But two slots per chapter would never reach 100%, and I'm not ok with that.

Edit:

Quote:

8. Do Not Abuse the English Language

Some nameless people here have annoyingly incoherent posts. Making an atempt at proper grammer goes a long way.

Loviatar · Feb 27, 2006, 06:24 PM // 18:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by Katari

Thats interesting. You quote him and then say something totally irrelevent as if you're proving him wrong. Lets review.
.

i see what he was getting at now

he was considering all chapters will possibly be installed as separate games and i was comparing all chapters merged with a specified 1 slot per new character.

Galahad · Feb 27, 2006, 08:14 PM // 20:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by Loviatar

and somebody picking up chapter 4 will have no more than we do and have 12 professions same as we do except 10 will be gimped and only the chapter 4 new characters will be able to be fully developed for them

Incorrect: Somebody buying Chapter 4 only will have 6 core and 2 chapter 4 professions. They will not be able to play Assassin, Ritualist or the Chapter 3 professions.

As I see it for someone buying and merging all of the first 4 campaigns.

If for each chapter we get 1 slot after chapter 4: 4+1+1+1=7 slots for 12 professions i.e 4 unplayable primaries - totally unacceptable IMO.

2 slots: 4+2+2+2=10 slots for 12 i.e. 2 unplayable primaries - same as we started with in Ch1, the reason I have 2 accounts.

3 slots: 4+3+3+3=13 slots for 12 i.e. 1 spare for pvp

4 slots: 4+4+4+4=16 slots for 12 professions i.e. lots of spare characters as packmules and pvp - not likely to happen.

I will be buying Ch2 for my main account, hope to get enough slots to not have to buy 2 copies.

Loviatar · Feb 27, 2006, 08:27 PM // 20:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by Galahad

Incorrect: Somebody buying Chapter 4 only will have 6 core and 2 chapter 4 professions. They will not be able to play Assassin, Ritualist or the Chapter 3 professions.
.

absolutely correct and a big oops on my part there.

thank you

the green snake · Feb 27, 2006, 08:37 PM // 20:37

i think that anet should sell charater slots, so you can have as many slots as you want. they should just charge like $10 a slot. it would come out to about the same amount of money for them.

Loviatar · Feb 27, 2006, 08:40 PM // 20:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by the green snake

i think that anet should sell charater slots, so you can have as many slots as you want. they should just charge like $10 a slot. it would come out to about the same amount of money for them.

that has been shot down by Anet as giving people with money an advantage over people who do not have money for the extra slots.

been shot down many times already.

Mordakai · Feb 27, 2006, 08:53 PM // 20:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by Loviatar

that has been shot down by Anet as giving people with money an advantage over people who do not have money for the extra slots.

been shot down many times already.

I've heard this argument before, but I don't understand, how is having more Characters an "advantage?"

If I play one character all the time, I'll have the same odds for loot, than someone who's been playing 6 characters for the same net time.

Now, I guess the person with 6 chracters has some more flexibility when it comes to PvP.

But if it's PvP flexibility you want, just make up a bunch of characters to get all the skills you want, and delete them when you're done.

Obviously, there is a reason for the small number of slots in Guild Wars, and if MONEY is the reason, than allow those that want to buy more slots with money. It won't give any inherent advantage over anyone else...

(well, except storage. But people like me store too much crap they don't need anyway!)

TGgold · Feb 27, 2006, 09:40 PM // 21:40

I, personally, don't think ANET should EVER give the gamer 100% content. They need to make money, and I think it's fine from a business standpoint. I'd like the game to be able to continue.

I have 2 accounts, and will update them all with every chapter. Lots of money on my half, but hey, that's what the game is worth to me.

I think that a lot of people are ungrateful for what we've been given, and they should look at all they ask for. I mean, you don't yell at your parents for not giving you everything you want, just because you want it. Then again, I'm seeing more and more of that happening these days :/

So, I'll be happy with 2 per expansion. 1 would be too little for me. But, with 2, I can see how the increasing returns will definately play out better : )

I mean, if you got 4 per expansion....4 in Ch1, 8 in Ch2, 12 in Ch3 (for 10 classes), 16 in Ch4 (for 12 classes), 20 in ch5 (for 14 class) and so on. It'd be unrealistic.

So, just be happy. I think all the people saying they won't buy will, when the time comes.

Oh yeah: content>character slots ^_~

Renegade ++RIP++ · Feb 27, 2006, 10:03 PM // 22:03

I wouldn't expect 4 per chapter.

I had expected normally 2 per chapter if there were only 2 new chars. But seeing that they offered 4 towards first time buyers I wouldn't find it fair if they offered only 2 to us return buyers if we combined it.

And you know the tactic of ask a lot to receive little... ask 4 and get 3...

LaserLight · Feb 27, 2006, 10:06 PM // 22:06

The advantage is in the fact that rich people could have dozens of slots, and thus more storage for in-game riches, enabling them to hoard IG wealth more effectively than someone without the ability to buy the thirty or forty extra slots most people in this thread seem to want.

Quote:

Is like a car dealer saying "You can only have 2 tires with this car because you already bought a car from us that had 4 tires, but if you kept the 2 cars in seperate garages we'll let you have all 4 tires." Sound ridiculous to you too?

Bad analogy. Cars are undriveable without four tires. Factions is perfectly useable with less than four character slots. I picked 'radio' in my automotive analogy for a reason. If you must, the closest to crippling you could make that analogy is seats: thing's still drivebale and the seats you have are comfortable, but ye can't drag along quite so many people. And even then, seating is considered a standard component of a vehicle, whereas you only hope an abundance of slots is a standard component of the game.

There is no talking sense to people unwilling to hear it. The only IG-viable argument for extra slots - the matter of retaining Guild integrity - is countered by the argument that a merged game, while not quite as character-populous as spearate accounts, is a single complete game as opposed to a pair of lobotomized games. A combined-account (core profession) character is, quite simply, more powerful than a Factions-only version of the same character. My combined Ranger will have access to more skills and more play opportunities than a Factions-only Ranger. Peoples' stubborn refusal to see or acknowledge this is infuriating to the extreme for those of us who wish to enjoy a single, complete game as opposed to a cell-strucutred, splintered wreck of a game. Because, quite frankly, I flatly refuse, come Chapter Four, Five, or whatever, to have several partial accounts which are totally incapable of playing all available professions.

Trust me. People playing split accounts will regret it when each account only has access to an increasingly limited number of professions. Especially when certain cross-expansion profession combinations become critical to PvP and they suddenly find themselves outside the loop.

And if being light a few slots is a deal-breaker for them, well, I've come to the conclusion that the game is better off without people who only measure its worth in the number of characters they have to play a game they obviously don't care about, since if they did they would care just a bit more about the game itself.

DJ Josh · Feb 27, 2006, 10:30 PM // 22:30

quick question.
who said there would be 2 chars in each new chapter?i have yet to read about that.

how do we now that 1 chapter may not have more than 2 chars or even no new chars at all(maybe a chapter that just has direct storyline content for our existing chars).there are to many assumptions and rumours.so every 1 seems to just be guessing lets just all wait for the official word then decide what you want to do.as i always say each to there own.and as the man said it cost them a fair amount less to run gw than most other mmo's because of there technology and the way they are working it with the chapter tactic works out about the same.so if that is true then that must mean that they don't realy need you to buy multiple accounts its just a clever way of getting extra cash out of those who have it to throw away.now thats fine if thats what you want to do thats your choice myself i don't have much spare (after the family side of my life is sorted) to spend on multiple copy's of the same game.hmm just a thought but is that not an advantage some ppl have over me as they can afford to have all chars playable and i can't.so a.net have contradicted themselves on their stance of not giving ppl with money an advantage because they already have with this multi account deal.

Loviatar · Feb 27, 2006, 10:35 PM // 22:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by Renegade ++RIP++

I wouldn't expect 4 per chapter.

I had expected normally 2 per chapter if there were only 2 new chars. But seeing that they offered 4 towards first time buyers I wouldn't find it fair if they offered only 2 to us return buyers if we combined it.

...

what you cant quite seem to grasp is that they are getting the 4 slots to handle 8 professions instead of the 6 professions we have.

6 core professions plus the 2 new ones for 8 total professions

4 slots for 8 professions and you say it is unfair.

if we get 2 slots additional should a chapter 2 only buyer be forced to have only 2 slots for 8 professions?

EternalTempest · Feb 27, 2006, 10:44 PM // 22:44

Here's how it stands now:

Stand Alone Chapter = 4 slots for (6 if chapter one) 8 jobs possible at any given time.

CX + CX = Base 4 slots plus one slot per other Chapter

So say I have five Chapters, 4 for a base, then four more making 8 slots open to you. So 5 chapters = 8 slots for 14 jobs you can choose from.

I would love to have two slots but from Anet no fee business model, I can't see them giving and having to store 14 slots if you have all there chapters as much as I would love to have them.

They gave us 4 slots for 6 chapters and pvp in Chapter one.

CKaz · Feb 27, 2006, 11:07 PM // 23:07

Ok the first tool -

Quote:

Originally Posted by TGgold

I think that a lot of people are ungrateful for what we've been given, and they should look at all they ask for. I mean, you don't yell at your parents for not giving you everything you want, just because you want it. Then again, I'm seeing more and more of that happening these days :/

Last time I checked I don't pay my parents good money to play the game I bought. Boy people can't get the car with tires analogy yet are coming up with this crap?

Quote:

Originally Posted by TGgold

I mean, if you got 4 per expansion....4 in Ch1, 8 in Ch2, 12 in Ch3 (for 10 classes), 16 in Ch4 (for 12 classes), 20 in ch5 (for 14 class) and so on. It'd be unrealistic.

Ah another person who can't read or didn't bother. WE DON'T WANT FOUR A CHAPTER. Keep it to the # of classes. Is that so hard? Do you understand how 4 was less than 6 in the original game? Do you see how linking our account and having full access to 8 but being left with 6 doesn't work for many, particularly those who want to PvP and/or play through the game with new players they get to join, without deleting 100s+ hour characters?

Quote:

Originally Posted by TGgold

So, just be happy. I think all the people saying they won't buy will, when the time comes.
Oh yeah: content>character slots ^_~

I'm sorry but how stupid is that? We're trying to state the problem and a bunch go 'uh duh d00d just deal'. If you can't get how being limited in your choices and how you can play doesn't in turn restrict the content you can enjoy I'm not sure what to do for you. On to the next tool.

Quote:

Originally Posted by LaserLight

Bad analogy. Cars are undriveable without four tires. Factions is perfectly useable with less than four character slots. I picked 'radio' in my automotive analogy for a reason. If you must, the closest to crippling you could make that analogy is seats: thing's still drivebale and the seats you have are comfortable, but ye can't drag along quite so many people. And even then, seating is considered a standard component of a vehicle, whereas you only hope an abundance of slots is a standard component of the game.

Ah ok we will cater to the thick. Ok, so you want to bring along your family - wife, kids, whomever. Hey this is cool, a lot of us in this pickle have multiple accounts. Ok so... I no longer can drive around with the wife. Or my kids. Or all of them depending on how many seats GW wants to limit me too.

GW wants you to squeeze into their model and pay their fee. Want to bring the kids along? Buy a separate car? Umm wait wasn't the point was I was going to be able to play with them? Do you have to make me sell my car (read delete characters and/or buy a new account) I put my love sweat and tears into and has a lot of modifications I like (ie unlocks) to do what I want to do?

Quote:

Originally Posted by LaserLight

There is no talking sense to people unwilling to hear it. The only IG-viable argument for extra slots - the matter of retaining Guild integrity - is countered by the argument that a merged game, while not quite as character-populous as spearate accounts, is a single complete game as opposed to a pair of lobotomized games. A combined-account (core profession) character is, quite simply, more powerful than a Factions-only version of the same character. My combined Ranger will have access to more skills and more play opportunities than a Factions-only Ranger. Peoples' stubborn refusal to see or acknowledge this is infuriating to the extreme for those of us who wish to enjoy a single, complete game as opposed to a cell-strucutred, splintered wreck of a game. Because, quite frankly, I flatly refuse, come Chapter Four, Five, or whatever, to have several partial accounts which are totally incapable of playing all available professions.

Speaking of nonsense and lobotomized... rotfl

OMG. We want this single experience game, and put the time into it.
We don't want to see that all go down the drain.
Meanwhile we start a new game with absolutely no room to grow, or its even too small to begin with.

You had to modify the original car analogy, how about a house? Now we have more individuals coming to live in it (assassin and ritualist) as part of the new content. There's new ways to play PvP as part of the new content. Why when you're already cramped to you move to a slightly bigger place with yet more people? Guess what you get?

Want me to draw a diagram for you?

Quote:

Originally Posted by LaserLight

Trust me. People playing split accounts will regret it when each account only has access to an increasingly limited number of professions. Especially when certain cross-expansion profession combinations become critical to PvP and they suddenly find themselves outside the loop.

None of us who are arguing for more linked slots want to do this, and where we have it's due to the fact ANet has crippled us in the first place. Yes, they are very bad people for wanting to play all the primary classes given and/or with other family members through pre-sear and the rest of the game when they joined up.

Quote:

Originally Posted by LaserLight

And if being light a few slots is a deal-breaker for them, well, I've come to the conclusion that the game is better off without people who only measure its worth in the number of characters they have to play a game they obviously don't care about, since if they did they would care just a bit more about the game itself.

Lord knows I certainly won't miss you and the whole lot of you trolls who can't get these simple thoughts through your thick skulls, and keep posting to the contrary when there is really no point. Will you cry yourself to sleep if we get a couple more slots to handle the # of classes + pvp disparity?

It's been brought up for how silly really would it be if that mistake on ANet's part stopped a lot of people from being able to enjoy the game. We hope even though your small minds cannot fathom such scenarios, ANet might get it. How silly would it be for us just to let that happen and not mention it.

So we mention it and get an amazing amount of people posting to the contrary - not reading, not stepping out of their own little experience, not understanding we're not looking for a crazy # of slots here nor need to have a vast number of slots for each expansion.

This isn't about you - you're set with slots, wth are you posting so much?
This isn't about me - I just relate because I'm against the wall as well.
And I've already paid twice as much as you (an account for my wife), some of those concerned have 4 accounts among the household. Oh wow, they play different than you. I guess they must be deviants for needing a certain level of value or consideration to fork over another $200, like I do for $100.

The games better off with out us blah blah blah, I mean what kinda crap is that. You don't know me and I don't know you - I just know you're ignorant.

I'd rather continue to play. I'd rather ANet sit up and take notice.
But no I won't continue on 2 more slots and I'll make someone IRL friends who will continue very happy and/or consider selling my account after finishing my last 14 Ranger unlocks if it comes to that.

It was poor design at inception to make people use 3 slots for unlocks and be left with one (hey pvp) - 'look Ma, no choices!' Add one variable into the mix (ie play with my wife through pve and make a monk which I hadnt had) and you're short. So hey go figure, 1-2 slots adding 2 new characters doesn't look all that great does it? Once again you're already behind.

Bring it up and I'm a noise making, ungrateful person you're better off without as there is no talking sense to me. We all are who come from different gaming experiences. Heaven forbid we try to get a game we're not forced to delete characters to enjoy the different classes, areas, and experiences the game is supposed to offer. Obviously we were the types to whine to our parents, and represent All That is Not Good in the World (TM).

Whatever. If the fool tools win so be it, there really are a LOT of other games. We're one day away from pre-order box availability and we still don't know how they're going to treat it. I'm just about burnt out anyways.

They just need to fix how Prophecies was out of wack to begin with.
2 with 1-2 just pvp would even be a better move than just 1-2.
But why should you penalize those who want one of each primary, particularly as I can't really think of any game I wasn't able to do that with that's similiar to this one? But alas we're just bad people so don't mind me

Loviatar · Feb 27, 2006, 11:35 PM // 23:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by CKaz

Ah ok we will cater to the thick. Ok, so you want to bring along your family - wife, kids, whomever. Hey this is cool, a lot of us in this pickle have multiple accounts. Ok so... I no longer can drive around with the wife. Or my kids. Or all of them depending on how many seats GW wants to limit me too.

GW wants you to squeeze into their model and pay their fee. Want to bring the kids along? Buy a separate car? Umm wait wasn't the point was I was going to be able to play with them? Do you have to make me sell my car (read delete characters and/or buy a new account) I put my love sweat and tears into and has a lot of modifications I like (ie unlocks) to do what I want to do?

:

TIME OUT

I THINK A SERIOUS BASIC MISUNDERSTANDING IS GOING ON HERE.

to play with the wife and kids you need a separate account for each of them and a pc to run it as 2 people cant log on at once to the same account.

you CKaz get 2 new slots covering the new professions without even touching a long term chapter 1 character.

your wife gets the same 2 new slots when you upgrade her account so you can play together and she does not have to touch a single chapter 1 old friend.

what am i missing from this as it looks as though if we get a slot for each new profession it is holding what we have and adding without losing anything.

how does this separate you from still playing with the wife?

something is missing and i admit i dont see it

The Great Al · Feb 28, 2006, 12:03 AM // 00:03

TGold, no one ever said 4 per expansion, that will eventually be way too much. I just want enough that I feel that I'm getting as much of a value out of my $50 as someone who is using it as a standalone, and right now that isn't the case.

Lasareth · Feb 28, 2006, 12:05 AM // 00:05

Here you guys go:

the official word

LaserLight · Feb 28, 2006, 12:13 AM // 00:13

I had a big flame-riddled post typed up, but decided against it in the end. Especially as I managed to refresh in time to note that Gaile Has Spoken.

So. To all you Ensabahs and Ckazes and the like who are now, by their own sworn word, done with Guild Wars, see ya later! Go enjoy all those other grind-happy, seniority-based, monthly-fee'ed MMOs you keep saying are such better products than a slot-less Guild Wars.

As for the rest of us, we'll enjoy our new continent minus those who refuse to see past the log-in screen when determining if a game has value or not.