Curse

EternalTempest · Mar 02, 2006, 08:14 PM // 20:14

/signed

I rember those good old days

and explore parties - no object not a farming goal to just go out and look for things.

It's more now W/Mo leaves because there is W/E Earth in the party, Monk leaves becuase the Nerco is not a well or SS or I'm going to run it despite the wishes of the party

I've adapted but miss the good old ruffing it myself and any choices going back to it is a plus. OP pm me anytime you want to rough it, I'm with you.

Mordakai · Mar 02, 2006, 08:32 PM // 20:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kakumei

If you're saying that an opinion cannot be right or wrong, you should probably think that over, because that's blatantly incorrect.

No, you're wrong.

Opinions, by definition, can't be right or wrong. An opinion is a view based on personal judgement.

For example, is abortion right or wrong? Depends on who you ask. And you're not going to be able to convince one who feels strongly about it either way to change their mind.

Back to the OP, b/c I don't want to totally derail this thread (too late!), I think the newness is what I'm most looking forward to in Factions. I know it won't take long for every little secret to be posted here, but those few days before it happens will be bliss indeed.

Kakumei · Mar 02, 2006, 08:34 PM // 20:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mordakai

No, you're wrong.

Opinions, by definition, can't be right or wrong. An opinion is a view based on personal judgement.

For example, is abortion right or wrong? Depends on who you ask. And you're not going to be able to convince one who feels strongly about it either way to change their mind.

An opinion based on misinformation, flawed judgment, or in fact no information/fact at all is a wrong opinion.

Funda · Mar 02, 2006, 09:13 PM // 21:13

Sigh...

Your assertion that PvE is in fact EASY is by all accounts an Opinion. That is, that you believe it to be easy and perhaps you have friends who would agree with you. However, just because that may be present, does not make that a fact. I adhere to the school of thought that there are plenty of challenges in PvE. By your logic, my opinion is WRONG, which is as you said previously -- "blatantly incorrect".

Look, if we're going to make this discussion about general analogies to a point that was digressed upon, we can keep at it all day. However, I want to point out -- in this instance -- that your assertion is wrong. Unless you can collect empirical data and have a panel of scholars agree and test it, blah blah blah -- only then may it **possibly** be asserted as a Fact. Get my point?

I don't much like being felt like my comment is being called out because someone views it as flawed logic/judgement. It's a bit ironic that your assertion that an opinion is either right or wrong is merely an opinion in and of itself.

calamitykell · Mar 02, 2006, 09:24 PM // 21:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kakumei

An opinion based on misinformation, flawed judgment, or in fact no information/fact at all is a wrong opinion.

So an opinion that disagrees with yours is automatically based on misinformated, flawed judgement, or in fact no information?

lol, and you said you weren't arrogant.

Mordakai · Mar 02, 2006, 09:25 PM // 21:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kakumei

An opinion based on misinformation, flawed judgment, or in fact no information/fact at all is a wrong opinion.

You have a much different definition of what an opinion is than I do.

An opinion does not have to be "based" on any kind of evidence or information at all.

"God is Good." That's an opinion, no fact or information can either prove or disprove that statement.

"Guild Wars Sucks." This, too, is an opinion. You will not be able to convince the person that he or she is wrong, and vice versa.

Facts are something that can be proved to be true. Opinions cannot be proved, for they are not based on anything but someone's feelings.

Unless there is a scientific method for discerning the level of difficulty in a video game, you're going to be very hard pressed to either prove or disprove the opinion that PvE is easy.

Grimm · Mar 02, 2006, 10:13 PM // 22:13

Yes, the new experience of a game is great. I didn't skip anything my first time through the game.

And when Factions comes out, I'll play through with a ritualist, taking my time.

I remember a thread about "What will you do when you get Factions?" and the majority of the people said something like "rush through it", etc. Why the **** would you want to rush/run through a brand-new game with all new content?

Wind of Horus · Mar 02, 2006, 10:33 PM // 22:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kakumei

I don't see any arrogance, just fact. PvE is easy--I don't know too many people who will argue that point.

And if you're confused, keep in mind that easy != unenjoyable. I'm a carebear at heart, but there is a serious lack of challenge in PvE.

Hit me up in game some time, we'll go farm the southern shiverpeaks... You lead of course.

Wind of Horus · Mar 02, 2006, 10:37 PM // 22:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by beanerman_99

I think it is arrogance that you say its "just a fact PvE is easy". Easy for who? Easy for people who cheated and got ran through the game and bought Droks armor, then went back to to all the missions? Easy for people who use the "cookie cutter builds" of the easiest skill combos to kill monsters?

I'm not trying to start a flame war or anything. But I mostly (say 95%) play in PvE and I find challenges every day. I find the Ring of Fire, Hells Precipice, and the end game missions a very good challenge. I find taking henchs and clearing the map and seeing whats out there challenging. I am so tired of people saying PvE is easy and boring. If it is then go PvP and leave us alone. Go delete all your PvE characters.

Back to OP, I am so excited to team up and explore the new world with people and here things like "OMG what the heck are those monsters??" or " wow come check out the scenery here. will make an awwesome screen shot" or "what the heck is that item that just dropped?" or "wonder what is down this path". I can't wait to begin the new adventure!!

I agree with you, If something doesnt satisfy someones needs for a challenge then why even participate in it? I know if I didnt see atleast a few things in the game to still be challenging I would have just played something else until Factions came out. I never got a run anywhere, I always baught armor as I came to a new town or outpost that offered it. Im not sure what a cookie cutter build is but I always thought of my own builds... some were easier to kill with than others really werent for killing but supporting the team but they were my builds and mine alone.

YES! I cant wait for all of that either!!

Wind of Horus · Mar 02, 2006, 10:45 PM // 22:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by Keyote

Where do people get this idea that to be successful in PvE you need to cheat or get run to droks? My first character took a week to finish all the content I could find, and back then there was no droks running. The only missions I haven't gone through with just hench is THK and Thirsty River, but other people have. It doesn't matter what class you play, it's about knowing how to play it.

Take a look at bosses. Is there are reason they're called bosses and given unique names except to recognize which one has your elite? They pose no threat even to groups who dont have a clue what they're doing. Even Glint is feeble when you know how to do it, and it doesn't even require a specific group.

Sorry if this sounds arrogant, but if you find PvE challenging it's because of your own lack of skill or a bad group, not because the content is actually difficult.

I feel sorry for people like you really. Wasting their money and time on something that isnt "challenging" I mean what did you gain out of buying the game? the fact that you are able to say "yeah... that was easy, I did it so quick with no problems at all." I see those lvl 20 elites mofo's just kneeling or sitting somewhere in toa or grotto because they have already done everything there is to do and see no reason to do anything else because its too easy *plays the sad violin*

Wind of Horus · Mar 02, 2006, 10:49 PM // 22:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kakumei

The UW can't be soloed.

The Ruins of Tombs can't be cleared under an hour.

IWAY cannot hold HoH.

Four Paladin presets can't win several rounds in TA.

Cannot is a strong word. Don't assume something can't be done just because you haven't done it.

Can I add that in perdition rock the henchies just stand in meteor shower?

frojack · Mar 02, 2006, 11:02 PM // 23:02

Man. Why do people feel they need to argue about everything...

Anyway, Great post Wind of Horus. I absolutely agree with you. I can't wait

.

Skuld · Mar 02, 2006, 11:04 PM // 23:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by wsmcasey

I can solo Thirsty River with my MM and henchies. Not that hard.

Has solo taken on a new meaning?..

zelira · Mar 02, 2006, 11:32 PM // 23:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by Keeper of Birds

Remember the first time you met a Mursat with uninfused armor?

Not really, it happened so fast I don't know what hit me.

I agree with you 100% Wind of Horus, can't wait to go exploring in Cantha.

Woutsie · Mar 03, 2006, 12:07 AM // 00:07

I really loved the intense combats I was in. When SF farming wasn't that popular yet, I really enjoyed to kill everything that crossed our way. To bad you can't do that anymore because everyone wants to farm SF

Or.. If anyone wants to clear out SF for 100%.. I'm always up for that kinda things

Kakumei · Mar 03, 2006, 12:52 AM // 00:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by Funda

Sigh...

Your assertion that PvE is in fact EASY is by all accounts an Opinion. That is, that you believe it to be easy and perhaps you have friends who would agree with you. However, just because that may be present, does not make that a fact. I adhere to the school of thought that there are plenty of challenges in PvE. By your logic, my opinion is WRONG, which is as you said previously -- "blatantly incorrect".

Look, if we're going to make this discussion about general analogies to a point that was digressed upon, we can keep at it all day. However, I want to point out -- in this instance -- that your assertion is wrong. Unless you can collect empirical data and have a panel of scholars agree and test it, blah blah blah -- only then may it **possibly** be asserted as a Fact. Get my point?

I don't much like being felt like my comment is being called out because someone views it as flawed logic/judgement. It's a bit ironic that your assertion that an opinion is either right or wrong is merely an opinion in and of itself.

This post will probably be deleted, but whatever. I'm typing it out anyway.

When I said--

Quote:

If you're saying that an opinion cannot be right or wrong, you should probably think that over, because that's blatantly incorrect.

I was not at all referring to ANY SPECIFIC OPINION, whether in this thread, or anywhere. Not my own, not anyone else's. I'm saying that an opinion CAN be right or wrong, depending on where--not who!--the opinion came from. If I said "You know what, I'm of the opinion the sun is actually blue" that would be a wrong opinion, because it's based entirely on misinformation.

Quote:

So an opinion that disagrees with yours is automatically based on misinformated, flawed judgement, or in fact no information?

lol, and you said you weren't arrogant.

See above. Nowhere did I state I was referring to my opinion.

It's like you people are so quick to write me off as an arrogant prick that you don't even read my posts.

Quote:

You have a much different definition of what an opinion is than I do.

Semantics. Arguing over definitions is hardly the basis of a good debate.

Quote:

An opinion does not have to be "based" on any kind of evidence or information at all.

Then what's the point of having the opinion in the first place?

"I've never ever played or watched or read anything about Guild Wars, in fact I don't know anything about it at all, but it's a horrible game and I hate it and nothing you tell me will make me change my mind because I've arbitrarily decided this."

That's a wrong opinion.

Quote:

"God is Good." That's an opinion, no fact or information can either prove or disprove that statement.

"Guild Wars Sucks." This, too, is an opinion. You will not be able to convince the person that he or she is wrong, and vice versa.

Facts are something that can be proved to be true. Opinions cannot be proved, for they are not based on anything but someone's feelings.

What makes a difference is what those feelings are based on, and where they came from. See my above example.

thunderpower · Mar 03, 2006, 01:00 AM // 01:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wind of Horus

Im sure everyone remembers the good old days when GW first came out, everyone was lost, confused, weak and had no idea where to go or what to do...

The months went by and now people have perfected ways of doing things the easy way example: 55mo, runs, keg/book tank and so on...

We all saw this as a good thing but really was it such a good thing? I remember first crossing over into the post-searing, I was also one of these confused and lost people, I went out of ascalon and just faught stuff, not really knowing what would come next but to be honest it was the most fun I have ever had with the game. And still today with all of the easy methods of getting around putting too much effort into doing things I find myself searching for the thrill of just raw all out combat and carnage, I sometimes instead of buying a run somewhere for my characters fighting to that location instead, some missions and quests offer this thrill but many are just too easy.

And then alas. I see the trailer for GW:F and I see what I have been longing for. RAW COMBAT - HELL YES! Bring the mobs, bring lots of them, and make sure they are tough, real tough, I want to feel like I did my first time in SF when it was new to everyone with 8/8 an axe, 2 monks, 30% DP and everyone getting owned. I want the kind of fight that leaves everyone at the ressurection shrine saying "WTF"

WHO IS WITH ME?!

/signed

Althou sometimes i`m searching for DP so bad (just try farming outside rankor with 2 man trapper party... fun fun fun ... run trap run trap die... wtdf ... go again)

Myth · Mar 03, 2006, 01:08 AM // 01:08

I agree....
I miss those Days SOOOOOO much. makes me want to cry...well not really, but you guys get the idea.

LouAl · Mar 03, 2006, 01:46 AM // 01:46

I gotta add to this a thought.

Why do people power level in GW?!?
I can see why in other online games, with a lvl 60 cap (I sitll think it is lame, but I can see why).

With a level 20 cap, why bother? It really doesn't take that long to reach the max, and as stated, it makes doing all those early mission worthless.

I know, it is because they want the character to farm etc., but why not just fight your way to get ascended (skipping anything unneccesary) and you will have more money (isn't that the point of farming) and you will be at level 20. And as a bonus it only takes slightly longer and you won't have to worry about idiot runners/power-levelers who promise but can't deliver.

I just don't get it.

Back on topic:

I like fighting when I don't know what to expect, and I love trying to find new ways to fight/new areas to explore. Ahh, new stuff is great.

Edit:

No matter what the reasoning, an opinion can NEVER be wrong. A fact can be wrong, but only because it is based on something that can be measured in some way. A theory is similar to an opinion in that it can NEVER be proved wrong (unless you are omnipotent) because it is not something that can be absolutely proven to begin with.

I can say "I hate green." No matter what you say, that statement will never be wrong as long as it is what I think. If I change my opinion, it is still right, and the origional opion (before the chage) is still not wrong. It may not be right *for me* anymore, but that does not make it wrong.

Opinions are 100% based on personal experience, and there is nothing that can make the perception of those experiences false. They can be inaccurate, but not false. My wife has never actually played Guild Wars, but she DOES hate it. She thinks it is an awful game. She is not wrong to think that, but I disagree with her about it (of course it is my opinion do do so).

It's a bit abstract but true nonetheless.

Funda · Mar 03, 2006, 02:39 AM // 02:39

I really don't want to get into semantics, weltanschauung, and the intent and inflection of one's posts on a discussion that has already digressed from the OP's intent.

It's clear that we have a seemingly fundamental difference of opinion here -- so let's just agree to disagree, and leave it at that.

To get back on topic: I literally cannot wait to get my hands on the new GW:F content and actually get LOST. To have no idea where I am, and have no aide to guide me. I can't wait to "discover" new towns and outposts and great screenshot areas. I really, really hope that Cantha is bigger than Tyria!