Curse

Former Ruling · Mar 04, 2006, 10:15 PM // 22:15

Enough people saying "I'm too l337 for the desert, use [insert build] and I owned 100 scarabs in 5 secs" or "dud3 it's hella easy to run there man"...well no duh..captians of obviousness.

Once you master concepts of the game...You can own almost anything in pve. And I've always not minded second or third characters getting run through parts of the game...They made that character for a reason and dont want to waste time repeating story and such. Or first characters getting things like Droknar's runs because they want armor earlier..sure..they wouldn't be able to get that armor for some time..go for it.

But think of that guy that just bought Guild Wars. He gets to the desert with his new ranger he made. He is excited to get ascended. Runs out of Amnoon Oasis and gets Ass Raped by 500 Scarabs. He trys and trys, but its really harder now to get through. He zones into the Oasis and sees people saying "running to desert towns 50gp ea" or w/e like they do now...His obvious choice is ..hey 50gp isnt that much and I'm getting owned by these scarabs..i'll just pay him to get he there..this is rediculous. Then you start getting situations where first characters are almost mentally forced (by like some sort of Anet Peer Pressure) to get run through parts of the story line game.

And I think then is where it gets alittle rediculous because the PvE side of things should be a decent learning place for low lvls.

----------------

I might as well use this thread to give my opiinon of the queen also.

The queen wasn't to nerf farming..The queen was to change farming to a form Anet more agrees with. This should be a group game, and such, so they changed a popular botting/solo boring farm into a team startegy farm, like the farms of SF and such. Brilliant for what its worth. Instead of 100 monks iwth the chat turned off in Rock, you have actual groups forming and talking going on so people meet other people and such.

Great update on the queen part, but not for the reasons most people say.

trankle · Mar 04, 2006, 11:27 PM // 23:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wessels

there is no aggroing and pulling skills involved when it comes to scarabs . They pop up ( they're burried and you can't possibly predict where they are ) and chase you , no need for "pulling " and certainly no way to contain aggro . This has always been the case however .

That's funny, because I feel that pulling/aggroing skills are key to this area.

First of all, the first obvious danger is the traps from the devourers. How to avoid them? Have a ranged attacker shoot the devourer and lead it to you, as far as it will come. Now, the party is a lot less likely to step in that trap. That's a big part of staying alive here. You're not blind or burning, so you'll be effective when those scarabs come at you.

When do they appear? When you step on their nest. Here's the thing. they appear to have multiple nests of 2-4, adjacent to eachother. This means you can inch ever so slightly forward and get 2-4 to appear, then edge back toward your party and fight this smaller number without waking both nests. Kill them, regen, then inch toward the nests again.

That's how you beat this area. It's admittedly harder with henchies, but it is doable. It's easier with a party of players, but you all have to be patient, pull, and work as a team. Which sounds like a strategy that might be good to learn for the rest of the game.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Former Ruling

t...well no duh..captians of obviousness. Once you master concepts of the game...

Isn't that the point of the desert? At what point should players learn the concepts of the game? Hell's Precipice? Seems a little late to me. If anything, there should be more areas like this earlier on.

Because the thing is, the later missions require teamwork and patience. You have to learn that sometime.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Former Ruling

And I think then is where it gets alittle rediculous because the PvE side of things should be a decent learning place for low lvls.

Well, Pre-Searing should be. Why should players still have their hands held more than halfway through the game? Also, any character that takes the time to do all of the missions and most of the quests should be level 18 or 19 by this point. Low levels? Sorry, I don't buy it.

Ken Dei · Mar 05, 2006, 12:20 AM // 00:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by SisterMercy

Except, of course, for traditional running through Lornar's Pass.

When I first stepped out Amnoon's door, the Oasis was still virtually empty, not too many people had played that far in the game. So finding a team was freakishly bad, and then doing that first stretch was murder. I almost quit the game on that first character at that point, and only went on by doing it with henchies.

It was previously a tough spot in the game (although toned down at one point, so I don't know if the new nerf is "tougher" or about the same as when I started), and I don't believe that most players are patient enough to work it through.

The better solution for party building with experienced players will reside in an in-game party-find utility. There's been a lot of discussion on this regarding the LFG problems at points in the game. There needs to be a way to post your IGN, objective (i.e. mission, mission + bonus, skill capping, dance party...), level and age (number of hours on your account).

That will help you weed out the newbies.

Finding a group wasn't a picnic when i did it either. That's not a good excuse, just keep trying is the answer. As for Drok's running through Lornar's, I hear they made the route to Droks much tougher. My point was, the desert tends to weed out the people who got/paid for WAY to much help eariler in the game through runs/mission "help."

Not every filter catches everyone, that's why there's multiple filters. Desert, Ascension, Dragon's Lair, then THK. And each had a bit of knowledge required.

Desert: Calling Targets/Endurance/Panic Situations
Ascension: Understanding your skills
Dragon's Lair: Teamwork/Flexibility/Planning
THK: Combination of all of the above.

Seriously, before I arrived in the desert and fought those scarabs, I didn't know what "calling" even WAS, let alone how to do it. I learned fast, because I wanted to win, i didn't want to waste the effort into my caracter because of some cheap, spindley legged, swarming, sadistic little bugs.

That's the real problem. People who get run take no pride in their character because they've accomplished nothing, they have learned nothing. Therefore, every challenge is just another run to be made. There's no compulsion to kick the living daylights out of something that's in your way.

Again, the only people who will get run are those who have been getting run through other hard parts of the game. Scarabs were nice and lethal when I went through them, I died like 15-20 times, before I found a team that made it to Augury. There's nothing more terrifying to a coward then a real challenge.

sh4ft3d · Mar 05, 2006, 12:33 AM // 00:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by torquemada

Few thoughts on my side...

1.Noob filter FTW! More such filters - less grief on THK and laters...

2.Griffon farming-truly an exploit there...just too easy to farm griffons b4, IMO. Go farm Blessed Griffons near Rankor, you'll see a difference there.

3.Another boss - another challenge FTW...runners/farmers get a harder time...also FTW IMHO. PS. You can still farm hydras, no problem there

4.Scarabs - Hex breaker, interrupts, etc. Bastards use Well of Blood on their own fallen - I used necrotic traversal and boy did I disrupt some plans... The point is - adjust yer build! That means more variety and more fun!

5. New players lower than lvl 20....go back to maguuma, take some quests, get some exp, learn, learn...dont be hasty!! You don't become a veteran overnight.

I didn't get a green item from Queen, but I aint gonna cry about it.

Just trying to take those statements in stride. 1. You can easily get run all the way from ascalon to THK and through maguuma to desert etc 2.Holy damage is armor ignoring. Enough said. 3.Hydras (although i do farm them) are just about the same "difficulty" that griffons are. And the drops suck. 4.Not everyone has a mesmer or /me, not everyone is a necro or /n... 5. I agree with that point. I played all the way through the game on my first character (the hated w/mo) and finished all ascension missions. I did not get any of my characters run until my 4th. Also, new people to the game arent going to have the money to buy a run unless they have been playing the game long enough for them to have a reasonable grasp on the mechanics. Noone gets that far with 60% dp.

CyberNigma · Mar 05, 2006, 09:07 AM // 09:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by Former Ruling

I might as well use this thread to give my opiinon of the queen also.

The queen wasn't to nerf farming..The queen was to change farming to a form Anet more agrees with. This should be a group game, and such, so they changed a popular botting/solo boring farm into a team startegy farm, like the farms of SF and such. Brilliant for what its worth. Instead of 100 monks iwth the chat turned off in Rock, you have actual groups forming and talking going on so people meet other people and such.

Great update on the queen part, but not for the reasons most people say.

That's just your opinion. It's definitely not ANet's opinion. It is most definitely mentioned twice in the online FAQ that solo play is a perfectly acceptable option that is supported within the game.

Lord Valkyr · Mar 05, 2006, 09:48 AM // 09:48

Too many people rush this game for some reason... Even with the new updates, this area still isnt that difficult if YOU JUST TAKE YOUR TIME! Fight each mob, one by one, don't rush, and most importantly, let your henchmen regen! I see no reason why people feel the need to be run through this area. Or any area for that matter.

If there is anything this game needs more of, it's noob filters. I'm sick of trying to form parties in high level areas and getting stuck with guys that have no idea what they're doing. I was in a fissure of woe group last night where one of the party members didnt even know what a guild was :s

Sekkira · Mar 05, 2006, 05:24 PM // 17:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by big papi

hey sekkira the whole point of this thread is that they nerfed the place by making it much harder then when u did it ages ago your first time

They didn't touch the place, it's just as tough as it was when I first went through it. And I've gone through it multiple times with different characters. Never been run anywhere.

You step outside Amnoon, you step forward, listen, keep an eye out. As soon as you see or hear things popping out of the ground then you stop and wait for them to come to you, then you start fighting. Rinse repeat. Before you know it, you're at the teleporter. Then it's clear sailing to Hero's Audience, Augury Rock or Salt Flats. The only two places of equal difficulty are the Hydra spawns at the south of Skyward Reach and the Storm Kin spawns at the top of Salt Flats.

I not only strolled through this part multiple times with henchies, but a lot of it was done before Lina, the Protection Monk henchman was added. Even after I only used Alesia.

If you think it's too hard/impossible to get through the desert without running, quit now. I've come across many people who truely beleive the desert is impossible to fight through, until I teach them about aggro management and positioning and the party literally strolls through the place.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lord Valkyr

Too many people rush this game for some reason... Even with the new updates, this area still isnt that difficult if YOU JUST TAKE YOUR TIME! Fight each mob, one by one, don't rush, and most importantly, let your henchmen regen! I see no reason why people feel the need to be run through this area. Or any area for that matter.

Truth. Why rush? Noone's going to steal your kills. Those higher level areas aren't going to run away from you.

Raxxman · Mar 05, 2006, 05:37 PM // 17:37

As for the run, anyone tired a W/E and dropping firestorm on the switches to scatter the scarabs while you do yah thing?

fallot · Mar 05, 2006, 06:42 PM // 18:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by Falcon213

Wow.. you do know that you don't have to stop at the portal, but can run around to get rid of the scarabs before going to the portal, right? I thought every desert runner knew this.. otherwise you would probably die at least once in a full desert run. Good running just takes a little common sense, and you can run everywhere.

You're right, every desert runner knows this.

Kook~NBK~ · Mar 05, 2006, 09:07 PM // 21:07

Did the whole desert tour (running to each town/mission area) last night. Didn't notice any increase in the amount of scarabs outside Amnoon, but it did seem that they kept up the chase a bit longer - but that could be because the slower members kept running along and not getting themselves killed. LOL

The one thing I did notice is that we didn't aggro any wurms near the portal outside Dunes of Despair, but we did find one near the portal on the way to Elona Reach. Never hit one there before.

Mister Overhill · Mar 05, 2006, 11:02 PM // 23:02

I've said this before, but it's been awhile. Too many mobs take away the realism of the game experience. I would rather see fewer, tougher mobs and bosses that spawn at random, maybe even with varying aggro circles, so that it is never exactly the same game twice. Now that would keep you on your toes and encourage you to work on your build, as well as cut down on bot farming. Do that from the start of the game and GW would be a lot more interesting.

Note: Just took my old r/mo toon, that I haven't played in quite awhile, from Amnoon to the first teleporter. Outside of one beefed up mob halfway to the first turn, I don't see anything different.

bishop420kid · Mar 06, 2006, 04:37 PM // 16:37

I already found a new place to farm griffins

wolfe2dale · Mar 06, 2006, 04:53 PM // 16:53

Okay...a couple of point here to the people complaining...

1.) If you're not strong enough or good enough to do the entire Desert map with henchies then go back to the maguuma and lvl up/learn how to play.

2.) To all the runners out there...... you are the reason THK is overrun with with people who don't have a clue how to play... I hope Anet make it impossible for runners, here's hoping for lots more trappers, knockdown, earth & water magic types all over the place

elektra_lucia · Mar 06, 2006, 05:10 PM // 17:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lord Valkyr

Too many people rush this game for some reason... Even with the new updates, this area still isnt that difficult if YOU JUST TAKE YOUR TIME! Fight each mob, one by one, don't rush, and most importantly, let your henchmen regen! I see no reason why people feel the need to be run through this area. Or any area for that matter.

If there is anything this game needs more of, it's noob filters. I'm sick of trying to form parties in high level areas and getting stuck with guys that have no idea what they're doing. I was in a fissure of woe group last night where one of the party members didnt even know what a guild was :s

You believed him when he told you that?

The game only levels up to 20, I think the roll playing aspect of it is limited. So wanting to rush is no great surprise... It isn't as in depth as WoW, for MMOPRG. That's not to say I don't like this game, I do. I just can empathise with everyone wanting runs. Sure ebay people mess it up, but that's ebay for you. Have to deal with it.

55monk nerf isn't such a bad thing more I come to think of it, I got bored with farming griffons. More and more people will kill their 55 monks now, and I'll end up one of the few with one =D.

One is in no position to call one a n00b if they believe everything someone says

.

I have to say, by supporting this team play, you have groups now pretty much doing it 3 or 4, when it's easy to do with 2 people... Most annoying watching everyone follow like sheep, that's no different to watching a bunch of 55's walk out the door.

Chat was also mentioned by someone else.

What a joke that is, the chat is now clouded with people wanting to team up, there isn't propper conversation going on. Just "z0mg looking for a wtf 3mangroup omg, im pro kthxacceptm3".

I'll still disable my chat I think. =).

Pandora's box · Mar 06, 2006, 05:34 PM // 17:34

Problem I have with 'nerfs' like this is that it disencourages players who only have 1 or 2 hours to spend now and than to continue playing. It limits gameplay too much to finding a decent party, which sometimes takes a lot of time. It leaves players who have a life beyond gaming all day long without any other option than to quit, since making progress is impossble in 1 or 2 hours.

Ghull Ka · Mar 06, 2006, 06:09 PM // 18:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ken Dei

There's nothing more terrifying to a coward then a real challenge.

Quoted and endorsed. Excellent summary.

This area wasn't nerfed; it's just as hard as it is now as it ever was. If people get disappointed by the challenge and decide to get a run because it's easier then that is nobody's fault but their own.

I was mercilessly slaughtered by these jerky little bugs over and over again. Then I started watching them, seeing how they fought, how they popped up in little groups (so I moved slowly through the area and didn't make 5,000 of them pop up at once), noticed that they use Chillblains and Plague Touch (so I limited my usage of enchants and conditions), and what do you know, I killed every last one of them.

Nerfed? No. Difficult? Yes. Enjoy the challenges of the games you play.

Jetdoc · Mar 06, 2006, 07:23 PM // 19:23

I made it to the desert with my N/Me on Friday and soloed (without henchmen) my way to Augury Rock without a problem.

You definitely have problems running it or doing it with a 55HP character, but as was said earlier in the thread - it just takes patience, aggro control and a WHOLE lot of kiting.

Rotting Flesh + Conjure Phantasm = Dead Bugs

MalVeauX · Mar 06, 2006, 10:23 PM // 22:23

This is hardly a nerf.

I just managed to push myself from Oasis to Augry, Augry to each of the three Mission points, with a level 17 Ranger/Monk, solo. I simply used dodges and running skills and ran away from anything that cast on me. I had a few half-dead close calls, but the mobs are so spaced out, there's no reason you can't just run around.

Of course... I've also done it just fighting with henchies. Barely a difficult things to do...

Cheers!

bam23 · Mar 07, 2006, 12:24 AM // 00:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by 4runner

well what i meant to say was, each ranger brings barrage and kindle, 1 ranger use kindle and the other use barrage, timing is important just alternate!

Iknow there both preps! Also you could use ignite but the AOe nerf they run, we also bring flame trap if they start to get to close!

barrage
kindle
dual shot
flame trap
whirling
healing spring
t/f

It worked befroe the update, dont know about now ill have to try it!

I also have a monk, a ranger and a W/R Sssssssssoooooooooooo!!!!!!!!!!

BTW, you can't cap Barrage until Iron Mines of Moladune. This doesn't work for people who haven't been there yet soooo.

Manic Smile · Mar 07, 2006, 03:14 AM // 03:14

/agreed

with OP

less mobs...better AI...harder fights