Curse

Rukmedes · Mar 08, 2006, 01:53 AM // 01:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by Str0b0

Warriors are a pretty poor source of damage for PvP. They can't compete with the heavier casting damage that the other classes can bring ot the table. In my opinion a warrior should be there to grab the attention of targets and hold them there. Yes people are smarter than AI but if my warrior runs up on you and starts wailing the damage won't be much compared to say meteor shower or something but it will be enough to make you stop and pay attention to me, often long enough for one of my team mates to get the fatal blow in. The only thing I have to do is survive your attacks long enough for them to hit you and frankly Strength is a survival attribute. Everyone get's so used to the "tactics that work" as described by websites and other guides that they lose sight of other tactical possibilities.
One of the primary principles of warfare that applies even to this game is that the minute you come up with a proven tactic to defeat your enemy your enemy will start trying to formulate tactics to counter you. Move away from the accepted norms and experiment. Every skill has a use and every attribute can be applied in a beneficial manner.

LAUGH MY ASS OFF.

You just said that people are smarter than GW AI. And then said that Meteor Shower was good damage. LOLLLL!!!!

And I can't belive I have to use WM as an example, but how does WM win with "no damage"? They ran 4 warriors in GWWC, and came in second place. Damn, they must be REALLY good.

Sorry for the delayed post, I was busy

LightningHell · Mar 08, 2006, 02:52 AM // 02:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by Str0b0

Warriors are a pretty poor source of damage for PvP. They can't compete with the heavier casting damage that the other classes can bring ot the table. In my opinion a warrior should be there to grab the attention of targets and hold them there. Yes people are smarter than AI but if my warrior runs up on you and starts wailing the damage won't be much compared to say meteor shower or something but it will be enough to make you stop and pay attention to me, often long enough for one of my team mates to get the fatal blow in. The only thing I have to do is survive your attacks long enough for them to hit you and frankly Strength is a survival attribute. Everyone get's so used to the "tactics that work" as described by websites and other guides that they lose sight of other tactical possibilities.
One of the primary principles of warfare that applies even to this game is that the minute you come up with a proven tactic to defeat your enemy your enemy will start trying to formulate tactics to counter you. Move away from the accepted norms and experiment. Every skill has a use and every attribute can be applied in a beneficial manner.

I think you have never PvP-ed before...Meteor Shower is an absolutely HORRIBLE skill in PvP.

God...Warriors are owning right now.

EDIT: The above poster was faster than me.

Murder In China · Mar 08, 2006, 03:04 AM // 03:04

Warrior with no mana is still effective while a caster with no mana is ineffective.

thor hammerbane · Mar 08, 2006, 03:08 AM // 03:08

I read most of these posts and im seeing alot of narrow mindedness. People have their opinions over armors, helmets, and skills. You cant say "That skill sucks, and this skill rocks.". Remember, out of those 100+(dunno exact number for primary/secondary) skills, you have 8 slots on your skillbar. Each person has something different, and they use those different skills because they work for them. Your saying you always need healing signet. I use no tactics, and 80%+ of the time, i can kill the tactics user faster than he can finish the healing. I use 15 hammer, 14 strength. Yes, a strength helmet. Please flame me, i want to have a chuckle at your reasoning. I use it because all my usefull stances go from 10 to 11 seconds at 14 strength, and that 2-4 dmg i get from 1 hammer mastery is a small price to pay.

Anarki · Mar 08, 2006, 03:31 AM // 03:31

I actually use strength alot in pvp. Mostly for Berserker Stance and Rush.
Rush > Charge/Spring because it lasts longer and if you are smart you can have it on non stop (only 4 adrenaline).
I wouldn't trade Berserker Stance for any other attack speed boost (Except maybe Tigers Fury, but I'm a W/N and TF is expensive).
Defy Pain was also great before 2:nd March because it was only 4 adrenaline.

If you really wanna bash at something, why dont you go bash at soul reaping skills?

Savio · Mar 08, 2006, 04:26 AM // 04:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by Anarki

I actually use strength alot in pvp. Mostly for Berserker Stance and Rush.
Rush > Charge/Spring because it lasts longer and if you are smart you can have it on non stop (only 4 adrenaline).

You use Strength for skills, yes; Rush/Sprint, along with a few others (especially Bull's Charge now) are the reason why to invest anything in Strength at all. However, Strength is a subpar Primary attribute and not one you need an exceedingly high level and a +1 Strength helm in to do anything.

Quote:

I wouldn't trade Berserker Stance for any other attack speed boost (Except maybe Tigers Fury, but I'm a W/N and TF is expensive).

You can't use any attack skills with Berserker Stance. When it comes time for the Warrior to unload his adrenal skills, he's doing it two thirds as fast as he should be doing.

Quote:

Defy Pain was also great before 2:nd March because it was only 4 adrenaline.

You don't need more armor on a Warrior, and you get the same health from Endure Pain. And since it's an adrenaline skill, it drains from your adrenaline pool, meaning slower charging of your attack skills. It was also at 7 adrenaline pre-patch, so I'm not sure what you're talking about it being better.

Quote:

If you really wanna bash at something, why dont you go bash at soul reaping skills?

Soul Reaping does just fine without any skills, unlike some attributes like, say, Strength.

wheel · Mar 08, 2006, 04:29 AM // 04:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by Anarki

I actually use strength alot in pvp. Mostly for Berserker Stance and Rush.
Rush > Charge/Spring because it lasts longer and if you are smart you can have it on non stop (only 4 adrenaline).
I wouldn't trade Berserker Stance for any other attack speed boost (Except maybe Tigers Fury, but I'm a W/N and TF is expensive).
Defy Pain was also great before 2:nd March because it was only 4 adrenaline.

If you really wanna bash at something, why dont you go bash at soul reaping skills?

Berserker Stance is bad. Frenzy is inherently better, especially when you're running something like Rush as a stance cancel.

Berserker Stance (Strength)
For 10 seconds, you attack 33% faster and gain 20% more adrenaline each time you hit in melee. Berserker Stance ends if you use a skill.
Energy:5 Cast:0 Recharge:30

Frenzy (Warrior other)
For 8 seconds, you attack 33% faster but take double damage.
Energy:5 Cast:0 Recharge:4

Frenzy has an effective 4-20s recharge when you count Sprint as a cancel. The recharge is even lower when you're using Rush.

The thing is, the only thing Berserker Stance is good for is building up adrenaline. It doesn't even do that well. With a 30 second recharge, it's total crap. Something like To The Limit! is much better at building adrenaline. Attacking 33% faster when you aren't using any skills is completely useless.

Frenzy, on the other hand, can be used for adrenaline spiking AND building adrenaline. You just have to be smart about using it. The double damage you take from Frenzy isn't an issue because when you see you're about to get spiked, you use Sprint to cancel Frenzy. Also, you use Frenzy less when you're overextending.

Well, you say, "But with Berserker Stance, I can use it when I'm overextending." Well, that's great, but you also don't benefit from it. The only thing that it gives you is that you charge adrenaline faster and do more DPS 1/3 of the time. Frenzy gives you all those abilities except it recharges faster and has spiking potential.

Murder In China · Mar 08, 2006, 04:33 AM // 04:33

Strength doesn't apply at all until you use an attack skill.

LightningHell · Mar 08, 2006, 04:42 AM // 04:42

We don't really care about the "extra 2-4 damage" that you get on your Weapon Mastery. We (I, in any case) do care about the critical hits, and the advance on skills. Those hurt.

AeroLion · Mar 08, 2006, 04:51 AM // 04:51

Str0b0 learned something from this thread and I think further replies denigrating him are useless. Pointing out mistakes is one thing but further attacks on him, when he has already admitted to being wrong, are spiteful and deserve no place in a rational discussion.

So now maybe we can address the OP in that strength is very much inferior as opposed to a weapon helm, especially when deep wound is factored in.

Anarki · Mar 08, 2006, 04:58 AM // 04:58

I never take Frenzy, and I am well aware of that it can be canceled by, Sprint as example.
It's just that there could be an ele or ranger damage spiker somewhere who I didn't see, and 100 damage obsidian could become easily 200 damage which is something you dont want to happen...
Berserker Stance is there to build up my adrenaline. Yes I know 20% isnt really much, but the reason is 33% faster attack that I can safely activate at the beginning hit for about 5-6 seconds then unload eviscerate, penetrating and executioners withing 2-3 seconds taking huge amount of hp from my target.
If someone else is hitting that target as well they would be either dead or very near death. If they try to run away I just activate Rush and chase them till they die.
Did I mention that I use Apply Poison and a bow too?
That build is ment to rush first and kill fast. I guess that's the reason I dont use Frenzy.

Savio you're right, it was 7 adrenaline, I somehow ended up thinking it was 4

Thom · Mar 08, 2006, 05:14 AM // 05:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by Str0b0

Apparently I spoke above my "pay grade" so to speak and I have been asked by my Guild leader to offer a formal apology for hte flames I wrote and for the trash talk. So here it is. I retract my flames and apologize for my behavior. I've been told not to post on forums anymore without my guild leaders express approval.

You did sound like a total idiot, so I commend your guild leader. Not trying to pile on, just smiling to myself because this type of post gives me faith in the GW community.

Ilya Khan's guild leader needs to provide similar advice. Hanging out with people who know how to improve your gameplay gives you a substancial advantage. My guild aG is up and down, but we had a few guys that ran with KT and EP for a bit last season, and when they came back to the guild our play picked up quite a bit.

Glad's helm is a bad choice no matter how you cut it and I suggest you rethink your approach. One energy is good, but one attribute allows you to use that one energy more efficiently. If half your skills are in a weapon, 1 attribute is something like 6% increase in efficiency (above the base, from 15 to 16) for attributed skills, so about 3% increase in total efficiency. A 4% increase in energy isn't really comparable, especially when you are largely using adren spells...if you are using 6 energy spells, you begin to get in the same relative effectiveness increase but your build is now verging on silly. This is really just hand waiving with numbers, since energy regen dictates management more than maxes. [Higher energy maxes simply means you can run a negative "energy balance" for longer active periods of time. Take a 9 second period and look at how much energy you use at "full use", balanced use will be your pips*3+other energy management returns. If your net energy use is negative over a standard casting period, then you can maintain that level of casting for (max energy)*9/(net use). Ran the numbers for a ranger spike: ~20 energy for 1.5 spikes over 9 seconds with 10exp, net -11, or about 22 seconds of use (about 3 full spikes) until you have to reduce your attack speed to allow for energy. That number isn't perfect, but it gives you a ballpark idea of what how to formalize your energy management.]

Anarki: Frenzy is one of those skills that if you learn to use well, will make you a better player. Frenzy often kills the noob, but it is amazingly useful if you know what you are doing. The whole notion of adren spiking is built around using frenzy in the spike while using skills.

Savio · Mar 08, 2006, 05:16 AM // 05:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by Anarki

Yes I know 20% isnt really much, but the reason is 33% faster attack that I can safely activate at the beginning hit for about 5-6 seconds then unload eviscerate, penetrating and executioners withing 2-3 seconds taking huge amount of hp from my target.

But then your attack skills other than the first don't get the 33% faster attack speed, so you have a slower adrenal spike. Instead of having a 2.67 second chain for axes/swords, you have a 3.56 second chain. That .9 seconds will give the Monks more time to react, more time to save that target, which can and will cost you that particular fight and the whole battle.

Manic Smile · Mar 08, 2006, 06:05 AM // 06:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by Str0b0

Apparently I spoke above my "pay grade" so to speak and I have been asked by my Guild leader to offer a formal apology for hte flames I wrote and for the trash talk. So here it is. I retract my flames and apologize for my behavior. I've been told not to post on forums anymore without my guild leaders express approval.

wow dude...tell your guild leader that he needs to get a life...

G

A

M

E

that said...if it was advice I would agree with him but that was a just a weeeeee big stronger

I especially liked this part

Quote:

Originally Posted by Str0b0

I've been told not to post on forums anymore without my guild leaders express approval.

Ilya Khan · Mar 08, 2006, 07:41 AM // 07:41

Perhaps you missed the key words in that sentence. "those 8 people you know " was the magic phrase. I reiterate once more - I don't care if these 8 people I am not speaking to do well. I really don't care if you have 500 ecto, a rare crystalline sword, and FoW armor on all of your characters. Firstly - items, rank, etc should be no indicator of skill or knowledge of the game. If anything , it is a sign of interest which may ,indirectly, give you more knowledge of the game but in no way is a direct contributor.
Secondly - My first post was one simply stating my beleif that Gladiator's is the best choice. "Come back when your guild rank >1000" is a blatant insult which, mind you, has gone nearly unpunished. Secondly, I started a guild and brought it to a fairly respectable position (although the rank may not be wonderful, I was able to get it on it's feet with good leader ship and a Guild Hall before I handed it over to my 2nd in command.) At the moment, I am not in the guild nor do I actively play GW (perhaps once a week to chat with friends). However, unless everything I had learned in the year I have played GW has changed within the last 14 hours, I beleive my opinion has just as much worth as a beta tester or some asshole trying to belittle someone.
As for the armor - I have the same knights/ascalon boots, but I go with 85 AC gloves and waist with glad's chest and helm.

Sekkira · Mar 08, 2006, 08:21 AM // 08:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ilya Khan

As for the armor - I have the same knights/ascalon boots, but I go with 85 AC gloves and waist with glad's chest and helm.

I'm unsure why you'd use platemail/dragon armour for you pants and gloves while gladiators for the chest. Platemail/Dragon armour does give you better overall protection, but it's rather useless if put in places where it doesn't count. How often are you going to be hit in the hands?

If energy isn't an issue, then you'd want this armour on at least your chest and legs. As for a Gladiators helm, I'm still unsure why you would choose that over a weapon attribute helm unless you are firmly grounded in as a tank and that's all you play. As Thom said, if you're using mostly attack skills, that +1 energy is not going to make a difference and a +2 tactics (helm and minor) is a waste of an armour slot.

Quote:

Originally Posted by thor hammerbane

Your saying you always need healing signet. I use no tactics, and 80%+ of the time, i can kill the tactics user faster than he can finish the healing. I use 15 hammer, 14 strength. Yes, a strength helmet. Please flame me, i want to have a chuckle at your reasoning. I use it because all my usefull stances go from 10 to 11 seconds at 14 strength, and that 2-4 dmg i get from 1 hammer mastery is a small price to pay.

Okay, healing signet isn't absolutely the be all end all on your skill bar as a warrior. The people you've killed using it are stupid. It is not meant to be used as a heal to keep you alive, it's meant to be a heal when under pressure so the monks have one less person to heal in a hectic battle. Using it while under attack is retarded, you may as well put frenzy up so they can kill you faster and your monk doesn't waste energy on you trying to keep your stupid ass alive.

I still don't understand your reasoning for increasing your stances by 1 second which isn't going to make a difference when your entire team is suffering from heavy degen or an armour ignoring spike. That extra damage that 16 in Hammer Mastery could provide combined with a skill like Frenzy can really make that much of a difference.

On top of that, you could argue that that 1 second will keep you alive slightly longer when under attack, but that's what your monks are behind you for. If you're overextended from your monks range, it's up to you to get back and endure pain is going to keep you alive for that second longer for you to make your way back to your team from stupidly overextending. Endure pain, while Strength based does not need to be specced that high for it to be effective. If you die because of this and don't have endure pain, you have noone to blame but yourself.

In other words, strength stances are just there to save the inexperienced player or team from rookie mistakes. Two capable teams facing each other will capitalise on that overextended Warrior regardless of how many stances said warrior has or how long his endure pain lasts. Then again, considering they're two capable teams, that Warrior isn't going to overextend. However mistakes are always made because we're all human and each team will take advantage of the other's mistakes as much as they can dispite how insignificant they seem.

Too many people see this in the small picture. They have the attitude that "Oh, 2 damage isn't going to make a difference" which on a single hit, no it wont make a difference. Warriors in Guild Wars, in fact nothing in Guild Wars specializes in one hit kills. If this was true, then yes, 2 damage does not make the slightest difference, you'd just kill them a bit harder. This is why the Vampiric mod is 3-5/1, why Warriors are the best damagers in the game. It's not how much damage they do on the single hit, but how fast they hit those bits of damage. In this case, every even 1 damage increase is worth it.

Rukmedes · Mar 08, 2006, 05:24 PM // 17:24

2-4 damage adds up, fast. Why do you think people choose Vamp?

1 second on all your stances is insignificant.