Curse

SilentAssassin · Mar 12, 2006, 05:54 PM // 17:54

this discussion is so bleh...

(I started reading the first 8 posts and... wtf)

anyways, this "factions" is a game thats based around the ritualist/assassin.

Arcanis the Omnipotent · Mar 13, 2006, 06:44 AM // 06:44

Lets see if I can explain this to everyoen who was an idiot in this thread.

Prophecies Preorders: The weapon was different depending on where you got your preorder from.. BUT there were weapons available for all the classes, you just had to pick which preorder you wanted.

This time around, there are not weapons for all the classes available by selecting different preorder locations. Now there is only one set of 2 weapons, only for the new classes no matter which location you choose from.

To Loviatar, the dance emotes are only for the two new classes, not all 8. I believe you not knowing this alone kinda kills your whole post.

Ensign: I'm trying to argue that they are treating a game they call a stand alone experience as an expansion by centering all their marketing around the two new classes. If this was truely stand alone, the special features would include encompassing effects, not merely two classes out of the total.

It is a stand alone game in that it can be played by itself, but the promotional items are being treated like that of an expansion, so they're marketing all this in a stupid way. Like Twicky said, they're doing it like Card Games. Giving you the new stuff, making you want to buy the old stuff. The difference here is that the old special stuff isnt readily available anymore, and in some cases, like the CE of Prophecies, isnt even being sold anymore.

And that's not smart marketing, its stupid. You dont make people want to buy your product more when you limit the ammount of copies of the special type. You just make people angry at you for not providing the product they want.

The Factions CE that I wanted would have included special things for all the classes, not just the two new ones, since I never got the Prophecies one, and would have liked to get it this time around. So you see, stupid planning on their part. Now I'll probably just get the normal one since I dont give a shit about the new classes that much.

Mordakai · Mar 13, 2006, 02:56 PM // 14:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by Arcanis the Omnipotent

Lets see if I can explain this to everyoen who was an idiot in this thread.

Yes, Arcanis, we're the idiots because we don't see your point...

Whatever.

Maybe they're saving special dance emotes for the other professions for later CEs that don't introduce new characters.

Bottom line: It really doesn't matter. The Collector's Edition is for fanboys... pure and simple. (and yes, I'm buying it

). I can't imagine someone walking up to an endcap and going, "Hmmm, Guild Wars: Factions CE. I always wanted to try that. Well, no point spending $50 when I can spend $70!"

Quote:

The Factions CE that I wanted would have included special things for all the classes, not just the two new ones, since I never got the Prophecies one, and would have liked to get it this time around.

That's the whole deal with Collector's Editions: You miss them, that's it. That's why the bonuses have (so far) been cosmetic only. So, let's say Chapter 6 offers new dances for Warriors. Are you going to cry: "Oh, boo hoo. I should have bought CE: Factions, so I could have all the special dances!"

Loviatar · Mar 13, 2006, 05:19 PM // 17:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by Arcanis the Omnipotent

Lets see if I can explain this to everyoen who was an idiot in this thread.

To Loviatar, the dance emotes are only for the two new classes, not all 8. I believe you not knowing this alone kinda kills your whole post.

.

since you consider me one of the idiots i consider myself in good company.

ARE YOU ACTUALLY SAYING ONLY THE 2 NEW CLASSES WILL HAVE DANCE EMOTES AND THE CORE 6 PROFESSIONS WILL HAVE THEIR DANCE EMOTES REMOVED?

Ensign · Mar 13, 2006, 09:11 PM // 21:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by Arcanis the Omnipotent

Lets see if I can explain this to everyoen who was an idiot in this thread.

Starting out your post by calling everyone who doesn't agree with you an idiot is a great way to convince people of the merit of your stance.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Arcanis the Omnipotent

Prophecies Preorders: The weapon was different depending on where you got your preorder from.. BUT there were weapons available for all the classes, you just had to pick which preorder you wanted.

Incorrect. There was neither a Mesmer nor an Elementalist item available for preorder anywhere. In addition the idea of a 'choice' of preorder is rather presumptuous, as it isn't like every customer had realistic access to every retailer. I would wager that people preordered from the locations that were convenient for them, and that was all there is to it.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Arcanis the Omnipotent

To Loviatar, the dance emotes are only for the two new classes, not all 8.

A couple of special emotes available only through the collector's edition of a game is clearly the difference between a standalone game and an expansion.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Arcanis the Omnipotent

Ensign: I'm trying to argue that they are treating a game they call a stand alone experience as an expansion by centering all their marketing around the two new classes.

Now maybe I'm just seeing things differently because I come from a M:tG background, amongst other things. But when a new product comes out that's been designed from the ground up to be playable all by itself, that's a pretty good sign that it's standalone.

When something is standalone that doesn't mean you advertise it in exactly the same way as the original. You've established a franchise when it comes to release #2, which means there's some prior knowledge and expectations. You don't need to go over the basics with every advertising campaign. Instead you focus on what's new and what's different. Sure there's some segment of the population that doesn't know what Guild Wars is and will be picking up Factions for the first time. But a lot of people looking at the game will have some idea of what's been done, and they want to know what's new.

Hell, you see it in other games all the time. Whenever a sequel comes out in a known like of games they're quick to tell you about all the new features that this one has, what makes it so much different from the previous version. Basically their brand is established and they're re-selling the brand. When Doom 3 came out no one bothered explaining what Doom was. Everyone already knew that. All anyone talked about was the new features, the graphics and AI and all that, because that's what people were interested in.

That in no way made it an expansion.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Arcanis the Omnipotent

It is a stand alone game in that it can be played by itself, but the promotional items are being treated like that of an expansion

Not like an expansion. Like a marketing team that understands that they already have a brand name, and that their focus can shift from explaining what their brand is, to fleshing it out with the new features and toys.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Arcanis the Omnipotent

You dont make people want to buy your product more when you limit the ammount of copies of the special type.

Er, sure you do. People go crazy for limited editions and truncated print runs. As long as they're just special versions and not the standard version that everyone buys you're not constricting your revenue at all. You're expanding it.

Nearly every game has a limited collector's edition, and it's not because marketing is run by a bunch of morons or the company likes giving money away. It's because those collector's editions make the company money. It's that simple.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Arcanis the Omnipotent

The Factions CE that I wanted would have included special things for all the classes, not just the two new ones, since I never got the Prophecies one, and would have liked to get it this time around.

So what you're looking for is not a *Factions* CE, as much as a re-issue of the original CE. I can see where some frustration would come from, in not getting what you want. That doesn't change what it is though, even if it isn't what you want.

Peace,
-CxE

codagent · Mar 14, 2006, 06:08 AM // 06:08

lol the bow is the most powerfull weapon in presearing

Sha Noran · Mar 14, 2006, 09:11 AM // 09:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by Arcanis the Omnipotent

Ensign: I'm trying to argue

Aaaaaand that's where you lost me.

rollntider · Mar 14, 2006, 06:16 PM // 18:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by Arcanis the Omnipotent

I'm not talking about things from a previous release.

What I'm saying is there should have been all new items for all the classes. All new special dance emotes for all the classes.

Not just the two new ones. Its not a stand alone experience if they are centering all the attention around the new classes. Somehow you arent getting what I mean.

I'm saying for some people, you dont get a fair experience from just buying one, like you did when you bought the Pre orders and Collectors Edition for Prophecies. If you bought the pre orders, you were given a special item for the classes. (Obviously buying all of them worked better.) And Divine Aura from the CE worked for all classes, not just two or 3. And likely, the Divine Aura will transfer for existing players into Factions for the two new classes.

But the Preorder and CE for Factions does not go backwards. Nothing special has been made for the older classes. And because of that, the experience is not the same for someone just starting the game in Factions.

They only have access to special items as they apply to Assassin and Ritualist

Why do I, a person who bought the preorders for each class and followed guild wars from day one, have you who just started get all of the items right off the bat when I took time to find and purchase the items? Why should you be given all of the preorder items just because you are new, the items from the original preorders anyways wasnt any good after level 10- 13 anyways because you usually had better. They are more of a collectors item and provide no unfair advantage. Besides nothing stopped those people who werent around originally from purchasing the prophecies preorders. You had as much of a chance as I did. You came late its your own fault. You may still find a prophecies pre order here and there, but it isnt my fault so quit whining about it. Buy your factions pre order and enjoy the 2 " new " items for the "new" chapter.

Also if you checked the histories of expansions you see that only the new classes are emphasized with the originals getting a few tweaks and upgrades. i.e. Diablo 2. The difference is Anet said if you don't want the original experiance, then just buy chaptrer two, prophecies isnt required to play factions. Its your choice and you have the freedom. So in that respect it isnt a expansion. For existing players it will be a expansion, for newcomers its stand alone.
So its an expansion or a stand alone, your choice. You arent required to to have prophecies, but it can enhance your experiance.

Axis · Mar 14, 2006, 08:18 PM // 20:18

Ok, I'm trying too hard to be tactful. Everyone, look carefully. See that argument in the original post? That is a textbook example of a non-sequitur argument. It doesn't even make enough sense to refute. All you can do is point at the absurdity of it and shake your head.

Peace,
-CxE[/QUOTE]

Haha... I had not-sequitor arguments at the universety. I still remember: If A than B, not A, not B. That was a easy one, but there are some much more difficult arguments :-).

I dont think its easy to explain this kind of arguments to people.

Andy_M · Mar 14, 2006, 08:45 PM // 20:45

Where do I sign to be an idiot in this thread ? 'salutes'..

Arcanis the Omnipotent · Mar 14, 2006, 11:58 PM // 23:58

I f*ckin give up..

Whatever. Act like a buch of idiots, see if I care. I didnt even bother to read past the newbish insults and immature name calling to see if you made any kind of point.

And you wonder why I called you idiots in the first place?

MSecorsky · Mar 15, 2006, 12:03 AM // 00:03

It's better to be silent and thought the fool than to open your mouth and prove them right.

EternalTempest · Mar 15, 2006, 12:08 AM // 00:08

It was very hard to get all of the pre-order codes for Chapter 1 and for what job depends on where you got the pre-order.

Example Best Buy had the Shield, Game Stop had the Warpick, EBGames had the bow, "Generic" was the Census Focus. Europe had the celestrial prism. Someplace had the Bone Idol.

Basically a "normal" person that does one pre-order and got the game only got one item for 1 job from chapter 1 and if you didn't know what was from where it pretty much random.

I'm only missing two, gamestop preorder key and europe preorder key. One will cost me 50 bucks to get, I have next to zero chance of finding a europe pre-order. Hint I will buy either of these unused keys - pm me.

I do see your point but there pushing the two new jobs as the draw as Ensign indicated for Chapter 2.

Arcanis the Omnipotent · Mar 15, 2006, 12:09 AM // 00:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by MSecorsky

It's better to be silent and thought the fool than to open your mouth and prove them right.

I believe that applies to both me and them as both sides think the same.

Linsys · Mar 15, 2006, 12:32 AM // 00:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by Arcanis the Omnipotent

I f*ckin give up..

Whatever. Act like a buch of idiots, see if I care. I didnt even bother to read past the newbish insults and immature name calling to see if you made any kind of point.

And you wonder why I called you idiots in the first place?

Obviously u are the only idiot here since ur the one posting the question.... or should I say trying to make some point.... people like u should be kicked from the fourms.... u obviouly have nothing positive to contribute to the community.... so GO F*UCK YOUR SELF

Arcanis the Omnipotent · Mar 15, 2006, 12:38 AM // 00:38

heh. And my point is made...

I have nothing positive to contribute, like your post was positive and awe inspiring.

I'd say this topic is over, I suggest a mod close it.

EternalTempest · Mar 15, 2006, 12:42 AM // 00:42

In order to not be jumped on, you have to:

Counter with logical / or at least thought out arugments as to why and acknowledege other points of view and state why it's not valid, valid (but not enough to switch), or not related.

Not start with the feeling if we don't agree with you were an "idiot" or then attack anyone that disagree with you and ignore personal attacks against you.

Linsys · Mar 15, 2006, 12:44 AM // 00:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by Arcanis the Omnipotent

heh. And my point is made...

I have nothing positive to contribute, like your post was positive and awe inspiring.

I'd say this topic is over, I suggest a mod close it.

It was I heared 200 people CHEER when I posted that....

U just wheren't one of them.

Arcanis the Omnipotent · Mar 15, 2006, 12:52 AM // 00:52

heard*

you*

weren't*

Learn to spell.

stickyballs · Mar 15, 2006, 12:53 AM // 00:53

/cheer

It is a standalone game in the fact that you can play it w/o Prophecies. If it was an expansion, you would need the original. That's all there is to it. Of course it is hard to make a standalone game that links to the original, as everyone will just perceive it to be an expansion. But by sheer definition, Factions is a standalone game and does not require Prophecies to play. That is how to determine if it is a standalone game or an expansion.