Curse

Hanok Odbrook · Mar 07, 2006, 03:38 PM // 15:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mordakai

OK, taking this argument to the logical conclusion:

If Chapter 10 comes out, it will have content for 24 Professions?

ie, new skills and equipment for all the previous Professions, plus the 2 included with chapter 10?

That seems... crazy. But, why not? And if that is the case, people won't be complaining about more slots for new characters, they'll be complaining about more storage space for all their new weapons and armor!

(Hell, people already are complaining about storage, and Factions isn't even out yet!)

Not necessarily. This is just my hypothetical based on what they have said thus far about the two new professions. Naturally, Factions must contain content that the six original professions can play through, as will each subsequent chapter. The question mark is whether they will continue to support each new profession for each future chapter. That will most likely be answered by the kind of support Prophecies has for the A's and Rt's.

We already know that we can create characters in Factions, and determine whether they start in the Prophecies campaign or the Factions campaign with linked accounts, but Anet didn't specifically state whether that option includes the A and Rt or not. I am just assuming it will and that they will update Prophecies one more time to include content designed for these characters (quests, item drops, merchant/crafter inventory).

I certainly would like to be able to bring any new professions to Tyria, and would like to do more than just have them run around clearing the map. And I would like to think that we would be able to bring the new professions each chapter to the next, but that certainly won't be a given. What I am pretty sure of is that we will only be able to create new professions in their specific chapter - which again seems logical to me. Hopefully Anet will break their wall of silence on many of this topics and concerns so that we can have some idea of what will be going on with the game in the future.

Hanok Odbrook
Real Millennium Group Guild
Truth * Knowledge * Peace

PS:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Eugaet

I fixed your post.

So, in essence, what you are saying is that it is entirely possible that Anet will start selling future full content on-line games at 25 bucks a pop or less? Doubtful. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out what's making the space shuttle fly.

Hanok Odbrook
Real Millennium Group Guild
Truth * Knowledge * Peace

Raif · Mar 07, 2006, 03:48 PM // 15:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by Eugaet

I'll just lurk among the posters (in this section, anyhow) at OMGWTFBBQ-Guild-Wars-Faction-Is-A-Ripoff-I-Want-My-Cake-And-Eat-It-Too-WAAAAH Guru...

to be honest, no one has asked for any impossible requirements, simply a realistic response to what is seen by many as a put down to the original pbase. Other than the character slot issue I have no problems with factions from what i have seen of it. Sure ok, i have a few alliance concerns primarily from a guild pov, but otherwise my only issue and many others is the lack of slots for the original players.

as god emperor Dogbert would say "Out, Out you Demons of Stupidity!'

Loviatar · Mar 07, 2006, 03:50 PM // 15:50

how many of you already have 1 or 2 classes you tried but simply for whatever reason were not happy playing as?

i dont want mesmer and am doing fine without ranger.

i may or may not like (for whatever reason) the Assassin or the ritualist and have 2 extra slots for whatever i want

this only effects a very small number of pokeman types that have to have them all in the same vein as the hardcore must have every skill on every profession just in case i need that crap spell someday pvp person

by the time chapter 4 or 5 comes out people will have a slot for each primary they want to play (and maybe a few extra pvp) and the must have it all or else people will have left

12/14 professions to play if you bought from the start.

i expect to have many more i dont want x/y/z profession by then

if you still have to have one of each by that time (and are still playing)

Mordakai · Mar 07, 2006, 03:54 PM // 15:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hanok Odbrook

That will most likely be answered by the kind of support Prophecies has for the A's and Rt's.

We already know that we can create characters in Factions, and determine whether they start in the Prophecies campaign or the Factions campaign with linked accounts, but Anet didn't specifically state whether that option includes the A and Rt or not. I am just assuming it will and that they will update Prophecies one more time to include content designed for these characters (quests, item drops, merchant/crafter inventory).

I assume the opposite, although by updating Prophecies, you would give reason for people who only bought Factions a reason to buy Prophecies.

I don't know, with 2 chapters coming every year, I just can't see Anet updating Prophecies every time a new class comes out.

I think a greater tell will be the content of Chapter 3: If it includes new stuff for Assassins and Ritualists, yeah! If not, well, then why did we by Chapter 2?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Loviatar

this only effects a very small number of pokeman types that have to have them all in the same vein as the hardcore must have every skill on every profession just in case i need that crap spell someday pvp person

Hey, I'm that kind of player! Well, sort of. This has been discussed ad nauseum, you only need 4 slots to easily unlock all the skills of 8 professions.

But this isn't about what people need, it's about what they want.

Hanok Odbrook · Mar 07, 2006, 04:05 PM // 16:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by Loviatar

how many of you already have 1 or 2 classes you tried but simply for whatever reason were not happy playing as? ...

... if you still have to have one of each by that time (and are still playing)

Between both accounts, I am currently playing all professions, with dupe warriors of varying second professions. Thus far, I have enjoyed playing PvE and PvP will all of them. It's a great challenge to me to be able to play each profession successfully in both modes, and that's part of the appeal to me. I am sure there will be professions in the future that I like less than others (I'm not too impressed with the Assassin at the moment, and eagerly anticipate my Ritualist), but I don't forsee myself not playing a profession at all.

I just want the opportunity to decide that for myself. As I have stated many a time in previous posts, my time spent playing the game is too valuable just to delete characters out of hand to try another build. If I end up not liking the new build, then I have to spend more time getting that previous character back, skills and all. That's just not a viable way to play a game to me.

BTW, I am still playing the original Wizardry game on my old, but sturdy IBM PC XT on the original 5.25" floppy disk, and enjoying it just as much as I did 20+ years ago!!

Hanok Odbrook
Real Millennium Group Guild
Truth * Knowledge * Peace

PS:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mordakai

I assume the opposite, although by updating Prophecies, you would give reason for people who only bought Factions a reason to buy Prophecies.

I don't know, with 2 chapters coming every year, I just can't see Anet updating Prophecies every time a new class comes out.

I think a greater tell will be the content of Chapter 3: If it includes new stuff for Assassins and Ritualists, yeah! If not, well, then why did we by Chapter 2?

That's what I am wondering about. No doubt it will be work to update previous chapters to include content for any new professions, yet, why would we then want to go back to get a previous chapter if it doesn't support all professions. And if that does end up being the case (i.e. no support other than for core professions in each chapter), that makes needing enough slots to cover the professions even more necessary, so that we can at least make six characters of each core profession to take through each chapter.

Now that I think about it, this could very well be Anet's reasoning for the current slot situation. We may very well have to make the choice between creating six characters for the core professions, and use them exclusively in subsequent chapters, or decide to have to give them up in order to play the new professions. I don't know about anyone else, but having to delete my Ranger after taking him through 4 or 5 chapters just to able to play a new enticing profession certainly is not an option I would like to think about!!

Awesome Nuke · Mar 07, 2006, 04:06 PM // 16:06

I think people dont realise how huge 2 caracter slots are. Maths:

Currently : 1 Million Players

1 Mil X 4 = 4 MIL caracters to host.
Now they add 2.. so 6 Million caracters to host.

And that's without the new players that will get factions only (Maybe 250,000?, so thats another Million caracters to host.)

Count this as you want, but that makes 7 million caracters and 1,250,000 accounts to host on the servers, and believe it or not, servers arent free of charges.. like our monthly fees are. And they have to get money somewhere in order to keep the servers running. Such servers could cost something like thousands of dollars each week. And hopefully, the new players only buying Factions will like what they see and they will get "Chapter 1" and link em to gain full access to all the content

My point is, its useless to argue, if you want 8 slots and miss tons of new skill combinations, just dont link. But if like me you're a true player and GW lovers, you'll link both accounts to experiment everything to a maximum. You wont (and shouldnt) get more than 2 accounts for only 50 bucks, it would just be crazy and they probably couldnt afford it.

Loviatar · Mar 07, 2006, 04:10 PM // 16:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mordakai

Hey, I'm that kind of player! Well, sort of. This has been discussed ad nauseum, you only need 4 slots to easily unlock all the skills of 8 professions.

But this isn't about what people need, it's about what they want.

on the other hand the little question lingers.............

are you having fun in spite of the

tight shoes

?

i still am and even though i have some doubts about the PVE content of chapter 2 will buy it to show support and besides i have easily gotten 3-4 games worth of fun so far

and i have a preorder for OBLIVION as well (ARENA got me hooked)

and i loved the flying horse bug in DAGGERFALL (levitate while mounted and the horse comes with you)

Mosch · Mar 07, 2006, 04:22 PM // 16:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by Awesome Nuke

I think people dont realise how huge 2 caracter slots are. Maths:

Currently : 1 Million Players

1 Mil X 4 = 4 MIL caracters to host.
Now they add 2.. so 6 Million caracters to host.

And that's without the new players that will get factions only (Maybe 250,000?, so thats another Million caracters to host.)

Count this as you want, but that makes 7 million caracters and 1,250,000 accounts to host on the servers, and believe it or not, servers arent free of charges.. like our monthly fees are. And they have to get money somewhere in order to keep the servers running. Such servers could cost something like thousands of dollars each week. And hopefully, the new players only buying Factions will like what they see and they will get "Chapter 1" and link em to gain full access to all the content

My point is, its useless to argue, if you want 8 slots and miss tons of new skill combinations, just dont link. But if like me you're a true player and GW lovers, you'll link both accounts to experiment everything to a maximum. You wont (and shouldnt) get more than 2 accounts for only 50 bucks, it would just be crazy and they probably couldnt afford it.

Factions, when installed seperately, offers four character slots. So ANet better calculate every copy as four additional character slots. Nobody, and I repeat NOBODY can tell me that ANet will ONLY make a razor-thin profit if everyone linked their accounts.
Comparatively, this server space costs nothing. Adding four more slots to an existing account will take a lot less space than a new account with four slots.

And Loviatar, I would really like to play a monk and necro. Alas, I can't for want of slots! Oh, the pain of it all! Like a dark rose of bleeding it aches my heart! Balthasar, free me!
Seriously, I would like to play those classes, I can't. My fiancee would like to play all classes, she... actually she can as she has two accounts. And when Factions comes out, I would have played an Assassin and Ritualist too (or at least wanted to play both).

Hanok Odbrook · Mar 07, 2006, 04:28 PM // 16:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by Awesome Nuke

I think people dont realise how huge 2 caracter slots are. Maths:

Currently : 1 Million Players

1 Mil X 4 = 4 MIL caracters to host.
Now they add 2.. so 6 Million caracters to host.

And that's without the new players that will get factions only (Maybe 250,000?, so thats another Million caracters to host.)

Count this as you want, but that makes 7 million caracters and 1,250,000 accounts to host on the servers, and believe it or not, servers arent free of charges.. like our monthly fees are. And they have to get money somewhere in order to keep the servers running. Such servers could cost something like thousands of dollars each week. And hopefully, the new players only buying Factions will like what they see and they will get "Chapter 1" and link em to gain full access to all the content

My point is, its useless to argue, if you want 8 slots and miss tons of new skill combinations, just dont link. But if like me you're a true player and GW lovers, you'll link both accounts to experiment everything to a maximum. You wont (and shouldnt) get more than 2 accounts for only 50 bucks, it would just be crazy and they probably couldnt afford it.

Actually the server issue is not an issue, we have heard from many IT people in the forums that say server costs are insignificant, relatively speaking. The cost of accounts is already factored in with the initial price of the game, and Anet even encourages multiple account buying in the fact that we must have more than one to play each profession without deleting previous characters (think - hundreds of hours of play time wasted), and to have enough storage to hold all the items we need (quest items, holiday items, different weapons and armor depending on what mode and where in the game we are playing, and that *dangable* Tapestry Shred).

You're right, it is pointless to argue because those of us who want more slots have valid points for wanting them on linked accounts and nothing can change our minds about that, and those that do not need nor want them also have valid points on their side, and nothing is going to change their minds either. We just want to make our points known in the hopes that Anet sees things our way, and makes more positive changes to the game. Nothing more, and nothing less.

Hanok Odbrook
Real Millennium Group Guild
Truth * Knowledge * Peace

Andy_M · Mar 07, 2006, 06:00 PM // 18:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by Eugaet

I fixed your post.

Anyway, I've said everything I'm going to say about this topic...at least until ANet gives official pricing. Until then, I'll just lurk among the posters (in this section, anyhow) at OMGWTFBBQ-Guild-Wars-Faction-Is-A-Ripoff-I-Want-My-Cake-And-Eat-It-Too-WAAAAH Guru...

(If people are going to use sarcasm or irony can they at least try to make it funny or at least clever ? That is kind of the point.)

Damn right. I'm paying (and probably full price) for the cake so obviously I want as large a one as possible. I'll admit I will struggle with only 2 extra slots, I've had to delete enough characters already just to try them all out so far. And then there's the rumour that core professions 'born' in Cantha will be 'different' so I'll need to check that out. And god help me if i want to try pvp - that's another slot gone. To sum up the 'tight shoes' are a bloody pain in the arse.

As to the price, obviously that's been set in stone for a while now, same as the number of slots rip-off thingy. I am surprised that a price has not being announced yet seeing as it's out in a month or so. So i'm inclined to accept the prices from respectable vendors that I have used for years.

Gargle Blaster · Mar 07, 2006, 06:31 PM // 18:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by Awesome Nuke

I think people dont realise how huge 2 caracter slots are. Maths:

Currently : 1 Million Players

1 Mil X 4 = 4 MIL caracters to host.
Now they add 2.. so 6 Million caracters to host.

And that's without the new players that will get factions only (Maybe 250,000?, so thats another Million caracters to host.)

Count this as you want, but that makes 7 million caracters and 1,250,000 accounts to host on the servers, and believe it or not, servers arent free of charges.. like our monthly fees are. And they have to get money somewhere in order to keep the servers running. Such servers could cost something like thousands of dollars each week. And hopefully, the new players only buying Factions will like what they see and they will get "Chapter 1" and link em to gain full access to all the content

My point is, its useless to argue, if you want 8 slots and miss tons of new skill combinations, just dont link. But if like me you're a true player and GW lovers, you'll link both accounts to experiment everything to a maximum. You wont (and shouldnt) get more than 2 accounts for only 50 bucks, it would just be crazy and they probably couldnt afford it.

i think some people do not understand relational databases...

The Real Roy Keane · Mar 07, 2006, 08:52 PM // 20:52

In reply to the OP..w00t.

Cjlr · Mar 07, 2006, 09:12 PM // 21:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Real Roy Keane

In reply to the OP..w00t.

Wait a minute here...

It's been 20 pages of ranting, and someone remembers the OP?

I'm... bemused.

Xenrath · Mar 07, 2006, 09:19 PM // 21:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by Awesome Nuke

I think people dont realise how huge 2 caracter slots are. Maths:

Currently : 1 Million Players

1 Mil X 4 = 4 MIL caracters to host.
Now they add 2.. so 6 Million caracters to host.

Can't say I'd know for sure, but it's just text/numbers stored in database tables; wouldn't take up crippling amounts of space/cost... and each account can only play one character at a time so the server bandwidth (different from database use) won't be increasing astronomically either...

I think they should have just let you purchase extra slots maybe for a few $/£/etc each; I'm sure a lot of people would have been happy to pay a few bucks for extra slots.

Kakumei · Mar 07, 2006, 09:56 PM // 21:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cjlr

Wait a minute here...

It's been 20 pages of ranting, and someone remembers the OP?

I'm... bemused.

>: |

You'd better remember because I am IMPORTANT.

Hanok Odbrook · Mar 07, 2006, 10:51 PM // 22:51

Yes, indeed, we are all important, and it is Kakumei's original post that does pose some interesting information that we have just started to hit upon.

My Theory:

Anet's original plan for each chapter following Prophecies would contain the six core professions, with the addition of two new professions accessible on their introductory chapter only (i.e. you can only create those professions if you have the chapter in which they were introduced). When the Chapters are not linked, you would have four character slots available in which to create characters from the eight professions available in that chapter. Only the six core professions would have content that spans across all chapters. For the non-core professions, their content would only be contained within their own chapter and maybe the one immediately following it.

Originally, Anet planned to offer players who linked their chapters one bonus character slot with two chapters, and two bonus slots with three or more chapters linked for a total of six available character slots once you have at least three chapters linked to one account. With the backlash caused by the CGW article, they changed their plans and offered the two bonus slots immediately with Factions.

I belive their original game plan called for offering a max of six slots once we reached chapter three to give us a choice - use our six slots to create characters in each of the core professions which we can then use to access all content in all available chapters. Or use only four or five of the slots for the core professions so we can continue to have characters that can access all available chapters, with the remaining two slots dedicated to chapter specfic or PvP only characters (i.e. after chapter two, assuming I have four core characters and an A and Rt, I would have to delete my A and Rt after linking chapter three to my account in order to create and play the two new professions introduced there).

However, now we get to what Gaile said in Kak's original post: "If you have both, linked, you will have 6 slots, with access for all _6_ slots to BOTH games."

This is an interesting statement as it still poses some questions which Mordakai and myself have just brought up in our last few posts. The way I read this statement, it means any of the eight professions I create in Factions will be able to travel to Tyria and explore the Prophecies content. If so, then Prophecies (including the Pre-Searing area) will HAVE to have a major update to include A and Rt specific content in order to make it worth while to bring those characters into Chapter One, otherwise all we will be doing is map clearing.

The interesting thing here is, that Gaile said all six slots - she didn't specify that all eight professions will be able to access Prophecies. Hence my above theory. Prophecies will remain unchanged, and the only professions that will be able to access Chapter One will the characters of the core professions. If we use our two new slots to create Assassins and Rituralists, we will only be able to use them in Factions. As Mordakai said, we need to know if Chapter Three will have support for Factions' professions, or if indeed my theory is correct and only the six core professions will be able to cross over chapters.

Hanok Odbrook
Real Millennium Group Guild
Truth * Knowledge * Peace

Cjlr · Mar 07, 2006, 11:01 PM // 23:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hanok Odbrook

Prophecies will remain unchanged, and the only professions that will be able to access Chapter One will the characters of the core professions. If we use our two new slots to create Assassins and Rituralists, we will only be able to use them in Factions.

I'm fairly certain that this is not the case. You can move between continents if you have both chapters linked - Lion's Arch and it's equivelant will have some sort of super ferry running 24/7

.

Since you can visit, it would be pretty screwy if you couldn't actually DO anything there.

I believe it is true, however, that you will not be able to create Assassins and Ritualists in Prophecies (pre-searing). On the other hand, you will (have to) be able to start the 'core' professions in Canthan Newbieland (although I'm sure they'll give it a better name).

Hodor · Mar 07, 2006, 11:14 PM // 23:14

Considering a 500Gb disk can store more than 500 billion bytes (that's real billions, 1000 million, not American 100 million); a byte being the general equivalent of one ascii character, data storage is a minor issue.

Based on the reasons given by ANET so far, and the ad hoc formulae used, this is purely a commerical decision to bring in greater revenue. The reasons given are simply to convince the consumer that this limitation is a good or necessary thing. This is called marketing :P

8 primary characters x 100% = 100% of content

The logic of those arguing for less for your money baffles me

You appear to be all extremely well trained consumers, following the marketing chorus line perfectly.

I have four PvE characters, which I enjoy playing alot, and have spent over 1500 hours playing. I don't want to delete any of them as I've put alot of effort into all of them. Therefore I have never been able to play two primary classes, and I can't create a PvE character. This is disappointing.

8 character slots, plus one PvE slot, is trivial to implement. It will affect ANETs bottom line, which is the real bottom line.

Rayea · Mar 07, 2006, 11:30 PM // 23:30

um, didnt they say that you can play *with* assassin and ritualist players from Factions if you only have prophecies, but not play *as*...

i take that to mean that literaly..you can go to tyria as an assassin and play *with* other tyrian core classess, but you cant get quests for your primary (ie, assassin or ritualist) but might be able to get the quests relating to the tyrian Core6...

they have also stated that...
other than the continuing Ballance issue patches and updates,no new content will be released for Guild wars:Prophesies once Factions is released.they will still continue the seasonal temporary fun, however...

that says to me that i could make a ritualist assassin and wander over to prophecis if i was a factions player, and find myself grouped with a Wa/Mo even in pre searing, but but would find no quests, skills or items related to my classess....
however, had i made an Assassin Monk, i could gladly tag along with my Wamo friend and get skills and quests for my Monk seccondary
but nothing of value for my primary

and, if i took my Assassin Monk to chapter3....the Chap3 core classess monk quests, skills and items will be available to me for my secondary, but there will be no assassin skills or quests or content for my primary.

since each chapter is stand alone in its self, but the Core6 change mainly their looks and elite skills that are capurable, this is an economical way to get folks to buy the same items over again, just with new makeovers....

Mandy Memory · Mar 07, 2006, 11:44 PM // 23:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hodor

Considering a 500Gb disk can store more than 500 billion bytes (that's real billions, 1000 million, not American 100 million); a byte being the general equivalent of one ascii character, data storage is a minor issue.

Based on the reasons given by ANET so far, and the ad hoc formulae used, this is purely a commerical decision to bring in greater revenue. The reasons given are simply to convince the consumer that this limitation is a good or necessary thing. This is called marketing :P

8 primary characters x 100% = 100% of content

The logic of those arguing for less for your money baffles me

You appear to be all extremely well trained consumers, following the marketing chorus line perfectly.

I have four PvE characters, which I enjoy playing alot, and have spent over 1500 hours playing. I don't want to delete any of them as I've put alot of effort into all of them. Therefore I have never been able to play two primary classes, and I can't create a PvE character. This is disappointing.

8 character slots, plus one PvE slot, is trivial to implement. It will affect ANETs bottom line, which is the real bottom line.

Please store my 12 million characters then. According to you it would cost next to nothing.

I am arguing less for my money because that means my money can go toward updates and paying more people, which would mean more updates. I also dont need more for my money because I am already getting more than I wanted. I would be happy with no extra character slots as I already have 2 open slots, 1 for ritualist and 1 for pvp. Why do I need 2 extra slots? Beats me. There is no reason that I would ever need 4 extra slots.

I think they should knock the price down to $30 for a version that can only be added to ch1 and doesnt come with any character slots. Slots could be sold for $5-$10 extra per slot. That way, I save money and dont waste it on crap I dont want.

Whats the point of having a TV on your vacuum? Sure its nice...but do you really need it? Even if it costs the same as this other vacuum?

No, gimme the damn normal vacuum and Ill save money on electricity and on storage. (it would most likely be bigger with the pointless TV attached.)