Curse

Katari · Mar 06, 2006, 09:15 PM // 21:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mordakai

By this logic, Factions should have 8 new professions as well.

There's really two different products for sale:

One is Factions, the stand alone game. It has 8 Professions, and 4 slots.

The other is Factions, the expansion. It has 8 Professions, and 6 slots when linked.

What are you trying to say? That Anet will actually make more money by limiting the slots? How many people do you think will actually buy more versions for the slots alone (unlinked)?

If I was more into Conspiracies, I would say this all plays into the rumor that the CE will give a bonus slot. I don't believe the rumor, but it would be nice if it were true.

If we had enough character slots, there would be less of a reason to buy another account. Much less of a reason, because thats what the majority of people buy a second account for. Yes that's what I'm saying. Untill they say otherwise I will continue to think it is a ploy to get people to buy more copies of GW.

The reason A.net is giving for 4+4=6 is that those six can access both GW:P and GW:F. So that means we loose two slots so we can gain full acess for the rest of out characters.

So it's 4+4=6+Full access. The issue I have with this logic is that full access is considered a given in almost every game. Those two slots are a 'fee' that you pay to get full access on all of your other characters. Why are we even paying a fee for full access in the first place?

[QUOTE=Mordakai]
As I've said, if you're buying Factions as an expansion, you already expect less Professions than you got in Prophecy. Less slots is a logical extension of that.[quote]
It is an expansion, but it's an expensive espansion that adds nearly as much as the full game did. If Factions cost the amount a normal expansion did, I could deal with it, maybe. But for $50USD I want a little more than the regular expansion offers. Less slots for less money, full price, full slots. Simple.

Factions only adds two new professions, yet if it offered four slots upon merging, it would still allow me to have four new characters, without repeating a class.

SilentAssassin · Mar 06, 2006, 09:16 PM // 21:16

ppl need to realize that we don't have a problem with factions but we have a problem with not enough slots in general, the discussion of xtra slots started 9 months ago !! when there wasn't even a word over factions, now ppl just bring it up because they had in mind that they would get what they wanted when new chapter comes out.

Now we see that new ppl get 4 slots and we (the ppl who love the game with all their heart and want to buy every expansion just because we want to play with all professions) only get 2 extra slots.

sry but A.net has to start thinking more in keeping their members then trying to get new ones, if ppl aren't pleased with factions they won't be buying ch3 etc... and then guildwars will die... (as much as it hurts in my heart)

I would be so darn happy if we get an extra slot with collectors edition... that would make my day

Mordakai · Mar 06, 2006, 09:32 PM // 21:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by SilentAssassin

ppl need to realize that we don't have a problem with factions but we have a problem with not enough slots in general, the discussion of xtra slots started 9 months ago !! when there wasn't even a word over factions, now ppl just bring it up because they had in mind that they would get what they wanted when new chapter comes out.

I realize this, and have said as much. People shouldn't blame Factions for the original problem in Guild Wars.

Quote:

Originally Posted by SilentAssassin

Now we see that new ppl get 4 slots and we (the ppl who love the game with all their heart and want to buy every expansion just because we want to play with all professions) only get 2 extra slots.

These new people will still have less total slots than you... and 8 professions to choose from!

Quote:

Originally Posted by SilentAssassin

sry but A.net has to start thinking more in keeping their members then trying to get new ones, if ppl aren't pleased with factions they won't be buying ch3 etc... and then guildwars will die... (as much as it hurts in my heart)

It's a little early to be predicting the death of Guild Wars. BTW, although Anet should try its best to keep old members, it's not subscription based. Theoretically, GW could survive with high turnover, as long as they got enough new peeps to replace the old ones. (But, to be clear, I don't think this is their plan! I agree with Loviatar that there must be some reason to limit the linked Factions to two slots. They wouldn't piss off people on purpose...)

Quote:

Originally Posted by SilentAssassin

I would be so darn happy if we get an extra slot with collectors edition... that would make my day

I agree. Any way GW can get people more slots seems like a smart business move: through collector's editions, one-time charges, whatever.

I think there's a misconception I'm against more slots: To be clear, I'm not.

I know I could find uses for more slots. My purpose here is to discuss the reality of the situation, from my point of view, which is that the lack of additional slots will not make or break Factions. The new content is what will determine whether GW deserves my continued support or not.

While I fully acknowledge that to some this is a make or break deal, respectfully, I do not agree. Isn't that what forums are all about?

rollntider · Mar 06, 2006, 09:36 PM // 21:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gargle Blaster

NO!!! yall dont realize how little space is used to store char data!!! Trust me i work in IT. --there is more data in this post.

Server/bandwidth money is a non issue! its about being able to play the game we pay for. the Box suggests that you can play over 30 diffrent char types however you only get 4 (and really there are only exactly 30 diffrent char types) -- im sorry but this is just sad. i have been hoping that this would improve... however it looks like this game will forever be short 3 char slots (1 for pvp + 2 for the other primary char classes)

You forget that the building they are working requires utilities to be paid, you have programmers, Product developers, QA team, testers, technical writers, IT staff, artists, Taxes, SSI, benefiets, etc...then you have to figure that a portion goes to NC Soft to publish (note the pre order boxes are paid for by the retailers, they are given to the retailers and someone has to pay (i.e. NCSoft)for that $.30 cd and that $.20 DVD case plus pay for shipping) Then marketing (those magazine ads) it all adds up my friend.

I work for a bussiness software company, and it is more than just server costs.

Mordakai · Mar 06, 2006, 09:38 PM // 21:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by rollntider

You forget that the building they are working requires utilities to be paid, you have programmers, Product developers, QA team, testers, technical writers, IT staff, artists, Taxes, SSI, benefiets, etc...then you have to figure that a portion goes to NC Soft to publish (note the pre order boxes are paid for by the retailers, they are given to the retailers and someone has to pay (i.e. NCSoft)for that $.30 cd and that $.20 DVD case plus pay for shipping) Then marketing (those magazine ads) it all adds up my friend.

I work for a bussiness software company, and it is more than just server costs.

You lost me dude. What does all that have to do with the 2 extra slots?

Loviatar · Mar 06, 2006, 09:46 PM // 21:46

[QUOTE=SilentAssassin]
and then guildwars will die... (as much as it hurts in my heart)

QUOTE]

that is a quote from every group that has left GW and it is still growing

UAS or we go and GW will die

MORE LEVELS or we will go and GW will die

MORE UBER ITEMS or we will go and GW will die

MORE SLOTS or we will go and GW will die

next verse same as the first

they left and GW grew instead of dying.

bye for a bit (must have something to do........maybe some GW)

rollntider · Mar 06, 2006, 09:47 PM // 21:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mordakai

You lost me dude. What does all that have to do with the 2 extra slots?

he was saying server costs were cheap, I was explaining there was more to Anet that server costs.

Mordakai · Mar 06, 2006, 09:53 PM // 21:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by rollntider

he was saying server costs were cheap, I was explaining there was more to Anet that server costs.

Yes, but, those other expenses do nothing to explain why Anet is only giving 2 slots with merging Factions, instead of 4.

Server expenses at least sounds like it's related to the issue, even if it doesn't actually add up.

Gargle Blaster · Mar 06, 2006, 09:57 PM // 21:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by rollntider

he was saying server costs were cheap, I was explaining there was more to Anet that server costs.

No doubt, but you have failed to prove that adding a few slots per account will increase or cause more additional costs of a new buildings, new programmers, new artists... you get the idea.

Mordakai · Mar 06, 2006, 10:04 PM // 22:04

If Factions gave 6 slots for newbies, and 4 slots for linkage, would that make everyone happy?

mqstout · Mar 06, 2006, 10:07 PM // 22:07

Mordakai, "Technically, they are NOT reducing our slots, they are expanding them by two. There's no way to currently get more than 6 slots on a single account."

I really want to see your reasoning. I buy factions and install it, I get four slots. I later buy Prophecies and install it (which you cannot deny came with four slots) because I liked what I had, and I only have six slots. Along the line two slots came up missing. 4+4=8.

Mordakai · Mar 06, 2006, 10:27 PM // 22:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by mqstout

Mordakai, "Technically, they are NOT reducing our slots, they are expanding them by two. There's no way to currently get more than 6 slots on a single account."

I really want to see your reasoning. I buy factions and install it, I get four slots. I later buy Prophecies and install it (which you cannot deny came with four slots) because I liked what I had, and I only have six slots. Along the line two slots came up missing. 4+4=8.

Yes, yes, I do understand the argument.

But the whole basis of the argument is on false pretenses: That Anet intended to make the linked game equal in number of slots as the original.

I can't explain why Anet chooses to reduce the number of slots by linking, no one here really knows. I like Loviatar's idea that there is a good reason, they just can't tell us because it would put them at a competitive disadvantage. (Hey, it sounds good, even if it's a little unbelievable).

I'll be the first to admit I don't understand the idea of different numbers of slots for merging and installing stand-alone. I don't understand why there wasn't 6 slots to begin with.

But here our my assumptions (which could also be wrong!)

1. Anet doesn't want to intentionally piss off people for no good reason.
2. There must be some reason involved in the decision.

Now, I've been a little obssessed with this thread, so I think I've read every argument and counter argument out there. Here, IMO, are the most reasonable explanations:

1. Bad precedent. Anet doesn't want to put out 4 slots for expansion, b/c then people will expect 4 slots for every expansion.

Counter: Most people just want one slot per profession. They'd understand a temporary 4 slot expansion, and would not expect Chapter 3 to follow with 4 slots.

2. Balance. If Anet gives 4 slots to link Factions, what if someone misses Factions, and only buys future chapters? Will they have 2 less slots? Will giving 4 slots out now force Point 1 (4 slots forever?), so not to piss off future buyers?

3. Game Design. Anet never intented people to have permanent characters of every Prof. Maybe the PvE aspects were overlooked, and Anet assumed people would use PvE as a stepping stone to PvP.

Counter: Why limit people's choices? It's argued that the best PvP players use PvE characters (best equipment, ability to swap armor and multiple weapon slots). By limiting slots, isn't Anet actually putting people who focus on either PvP or PvE at a disadvantage?

4. Hidden cost. For some unknown reason, linking accounts cost more than two separate ones. This could be based on just an idea that more people will link than buy separate accounts, or there is some real expense in the linking of accounts that makes 4 slots prohibitively expensive.

Counter: People would gladly pay any extra cost to have linked slots for every Prof.
________________________________
I think that's most of the arguments that I remember actually being worth something.

Please feel free to add/revise/flame as warranted.

Mosch · Mar 06, 2006, 10:51 PM // 22:51

5. They hope that people will buy extra copies of the same game to get more slots.

Mordakai · Mar 06, 2006, 10:53 PM // 22:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mosch

5. They hope that people will buy extra copies of the same game to get more slots.

Thanks, Mosch. Figures I would forget the most obvious one!

LOL!

Oh, guess I should add a counter:

Most people interested in multiple slots want Linked slots so they can have all skills and all primaries on one account.

hinhtan · Mar 06, 2006, 10:59 PM // 22:59

[QUOTE=mqstout]Mordakai, "Technically, they are NOT reducing our slots, they are expanding them by two. There's no way to currently get more than 6 slots on a single account."

I dont know if you have any idea about programming
If I own GW then Anet has allocated certain amount of memory for the account on the server. Assume 2 mega.

Combine GW and GWF = 6 slots which means Anet only has to upgrade your original account allocated-memery to 3 mega on the server.

$50 for 2 mega
$50 for 1 mega SEE THE DIFFERENCE ..SIMPLE COMMON SENSE

Anet will definitely make a lot more money this way if people combine their accounts.....We have been given no other choice.

GW.........2 mega on the server 4 slots $50 We had paid for.******
GWF.......2 mega on the server 4 slots $50

GW+GWF....3 mega on the sever 6 slot and 0.5 mega for new contents
Your original allocated-memory for GW now can be removed and given to the GW+GWF account.

Anet now only has to maintain less amount of the memory on the server for the combined-accounts. REMEMBER WE HAD PAID FOR THE ORIGINAL ALREADY.*******

P.S. Why we have been given no other choice very very clever ,,,We will miss out some skills from the GWP if we dont combine them.
sorry for the long post but people just dont seem to understand so I am trying to make it clear.

P

Gli · Mar 06, 2006, 11:08 PM // 23:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mordakai

1. Bad precedent. Anet doesn't want to put out 4 slots for expansion, b/c then people will expect 4 slots for every expansion.

Counter: Most people just want one slot per profession. They'd understand a temporary 4 slot expansion, and would not expect Chapter 3 to follow with 4 slots.

Another remedy: Change policies to offer people 6 slots for the first instalment, whichever it is, and then adding 2 per chapter to a maximum of the total number of classes on the account. It would set a firm rule for the future, one that people would understand intuitively, even the more dense. Added benefit: people starting with GW:F will have a greater incentive to also grab GW:P.

shadowfell · Mar 06, 2006, 11:25 PM // 23:25

I'm pretty dissapointed, was hoping for at least one slot for each profession, existing and new, as well as an open slot for pvp. I invest a lot of time and money into my existing characters and shiver every time I think of all the hard earned gw gold I'll lose that's invested in their armors and items, JUST IN CASE I want to play BOTH new professions as primary and have a pvp slot.... I still want to make a ranger primary to go with my necro, warrior and monk and mesmer primaries. PLUS I would like to try both assassin and ritualist. At the sound of this however, I will be forced to choose between either ranger, ritualist or assasin so I will be able to have the pvp slot I have suffered so long without, just because I only have 4 slots total now to play 4 out of 5 primary classes I really dig.

To get this "fabulous" value AN is trying to cram down my throat as they empty my wallet, I will have accept half-value and play both chapters seperate? What a load of crap. GG is out of touch and I would beg to say that the rest of the dev team is as well, if they think this is really acceptable to a lot of existing purchasers and devotees of the game.

Good thing NWN2 is coming out soon, looks like I'll be buying that instead. Least there, the economy isn't screwed up every time the dev's patch.

Loviatar · Mar 06, 2006, 11:54 PM // 23:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by shadowfell

GG is out of touch and I would beg to say that the rest of the dev team is as well, if they think this is really acceptable to a lot of existing purchasers and devotees of the game.

.

latest poll says you are out of touch and not them

Will you be buying Guild Wars Factions?

Yes, definitely!....................................... .....................1032
Most likely............................................ .......................293
If there are cookies in the box, I'm there!......................95

Undecided......................................... ...........................83

Probably not............................................... .................50
No way............................................... ....................... 29

# Votes:............................................ ...................... 1582

mqstout · Mar 06, 2006, 11:55 PM // 23:55

Most of us would complain less if (a) Factions installed stand-alone only had 2 slots andor (b) Factions costs noticibly less than the original game.

hinhtan · Mar 07, 2006, 12:03 AM // 00:03

What I dont like the most is that I have to combine GWP and GWF to be able to access to all the skills available.

Give me all the skills then I will be OK to play GWF on it own w/o combination.