Curse

Mordakai · Mar 06, 2006, 04:46 AM // 04:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ristaron

He said it.

Sorry, but if I'm paying the same amount for a game as I did for it's prequel (part of the same whole, in your own words ANet), it should stand to reason that I should get the same amount of slots, regardless of any option to merge the accounts! You're cheating us out of two slots by having us pay them as homage to being able to access the rest of the whole of our game. If Guild Wars is a giant single story, then all characters should be able to access all parts. This pennance for being able to use former characters and already unlocked skills is rediculous and appauling.

Someone else before me in the thread said the #1 rule for marketing is to keep your existing customers happy.
And I tell you, I'm not happy to be shorthanded half an account. Yes, it's half an account, I may as well give you guys $25.00 instead of $50.00 for all the gameplay I'll miss out on.

Sigh. Factions is not "cheating" you out of anything. Factions offers 2 slots (if merged) and two professions. You want 4 slots for 2 professions? You want something extra.

If you were "cheated" at all, it was by the first Guild Wars (4 slots, 8 professions!). But with all the free updates, new quests, green items, etc., I can't see how anyone was "cheated" at all.

For the people who won't buy Factions because they want more slots, I'd like to hear how you plan on taking 4 characters, unlocking all their skills, getting all their items, and generally feel satisfied you have fullfilled the game... in six months (the time before the next Chapter).

Buy (or don't buy) Factions based on Factions. But don't blame Factions for your perceived failure of Prophecy.

Inureface · Mar 06, 2006, 04:47 AM // 04:47

Even though most of the posts were retard flames and bitching between people, it should be obvious to Anet that people generally AREN'T HAPPY getting 6 when they link. Polls aren't very accurate because of course people are excited about factions, but if anet takes a poll once factions has been out for a while and sees how many people feel they got screwed out of 2 slots, they'd know to be more careful when they release the 3rd chapter.

Mordakai · Mar 06, 2006, 04:48 AM // 04:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by Inureface

Even though most of the posts were retard flames and bitching between people, it should be obvious to Anet that people generally AREN'T HAPPY getting 6 when they link. Polls aren't very accurate because of course people are excited about factions, but if anet takes a poll once factions has been out for a while and sees how many people feel they got screwed out of 2 slots, they'd know to be more careful when they release the 3rd chapter.

1. You're not being screwed out of any slots. See above post.

2. You're spending $50 on a game with only 2 professions, when the original had 8. Logically, shouldn't that be a bigger complaint?

Kirbie · Mar 06, 2006, 04:53 AM // 04:53

Hmmm...I find this very troubling news...
6 combined character slots...well...
**Let's forget about our access to new professions for second.**
If following assumption is true, then I'm really worried.

Assumption: People who only purchased standalone factions may have access to core profession skills, but not core professions.
Which means...for example, you can have monk skill like orison of healing...but you cannot become a "primary monk".

If we think of our ""storage space""...this is very troubling.
People who only purchased the faction will have one full storage space per area.
But for people who are combining will have half storage space per area
Area meaning new explorable area.

For easier understanding, I'll lay out few troubling examples.
-Faction only people: Plays faction area, and found a good looking armour(expansive). S/he decides to purchase one. That's cool. 4 storage space used to store faction armour(s).

-Combined people: Invested alot of time and gold to purchase armours in core area. Plus, upgraded his/her armour with expansive runes. Furthermore s/he has two sets of armours to meet different needs(like going full protection runes or full healing runes). 8 storage space used. Plays faction area and want to purchase exotic armour. 4 storage space used. Totals 12 storage slots just for armour alone...
I'm pretty sure casual players simply don't want to delete 15k armour and other expansive stuff from core area just to accomomdate new ones.
Then what was the value of his/her time to earn 15k gold(in armour alone)?

So to wrap this up..
Faction = 1 full storage/area
Combine(core+faction) = 0.5 storage/area
Storage availability will continue to decrease as new expansions come out.

I may be ok with 6 professions for now...but I really hope to hear more detailed solution about players' storage availiability which I'm not ok with right now.
Just a thought.

Mordakai · Mar 06, 2006, 04:57 AM // 04:57

Maybe the point is not to collect every piece of armor for every class...

just a thought.

Kirbie · Mar 06, 2006, 05:06 AM // 05:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mordakai

Maybe the point is not to collect every piece of armor for every class...

just a thought.

You are missing the point...
Even you only purchase 1 armour set per expansion, someday, you will run out of storage space with further expansions. And remember, we are only considering armour for simplicity. With items and stuff...it is inevitable situation.

Raven_Scythe · Mar 06, 2006, 05:25 AM // 05:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kirbie

Hmmm...I find this very troubling news...
6 combined character slots...well...
**Let's forget about our access to new professions for second.**
If following assumption is true, then I'm really worried.

Assumption: People who only purchased standalone factions may have access to core profession skills, but not core professions.
Which means...for example, you can have monk skill like orison of healing...but you cannot become a "primary monk".

If you're serious about that assumption, then rest easy. ArenaNet was quite clear that the 6 core professions will be fully availble and fully suppported in all chapters. So yes, Factions-only owners can create characters with a primary profession of (E / Me / Mo / N / R / W). Nobody's stopping you from creating Factions PvE characters that have neither of the Factions-exclusive classes.

However, I suggest you do take at least one as a profession, since Factions may likely be the only campaign with full support for raising an Assassin or Ritualist. I don't see them tacking on an extra 2 professions' worth of skill-giving quests, weapons/foci, and bosses with capturable Elites. It would take forever to design and implement, dilute gameplay and make the exclusivity of these classes lose meaning. Again, damn the limit on extra slots! *grumble grumble*

Katari · Mar 06, 2006, 05:42 AM // 05:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mordakai

1. You're not being screwed out of any slots. See above post.

2. You're spending $50 on a game with only 2 professions, when the original had 8. Logically, shouldn't that be a bigger complaint?

2. No, the origonal had 6. The GW:P might as well have had four classes. Factions currently might as well add two, since both should add the same amount of game, I do see this as a problem. Since when has a game considered it something special to give your old characters acess to the expansion? I can't think of any that barred old characters from acess to the expansion. So why then, are we being forced to pay (loosing two slots) for a privilege that is universaly assumed?

If a game wants to be gimicky and require two purchases to get the full game (I can think of some gameboy games that did this) then I'd like to be told so in advance.

So many companies offer some sort of deal if you buy more from then. I find it oddly disturbing that GW is doing the inverse. 4+4=6?

drowningfish999 · Mar 06, 2006, 05:44 AM // 05:44

Just think of it as supporing Arena.net, they could charge monthly fees, like many games do, but they don't, so they rely on their expansions for money to support the game.

Raif · Mar 06, 2006, 08:47 AM // 08:47

first off,

@mordaki,

While I admire your pro Anet stance and how right they are about factions. And how we have truly got the wrong attiude, gosh, zowie, darn

*holds out wrist to be slapped*. And just because we dont like the character slot limit.

oh wait. full game price for 2 character slots .. twitch..

sorry i feel a bit cheated regardless of all the arguing for free game etc etc. What about the people who invested in the original game, are we to be penalised with only 2 slots, oh and the argument of 'well dont link' doesnt cut it.
To be competitive and retain all the unlocked skills etc i need to merge the accounts. If i was offered 3 slots i'd be happy - covers the pvp, 1 slot for asn, 1 slot for rit. And it would show Anet had a bit more concern for its original pbase and not for all the new people.
Now i dont care how gung ho people are for 2 slots only, and how wonderful Anet is. Myself and many people feel let down by Anet and quite frankly the odd rant to let it all out is healthier than the usual carebear gushings.

SilentAssassin · Mar 06, 2006, 09:41 AM // 09:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by Raif

sorry i feel a bit cheated regardless of all the arguing for free game etc etc. What about the people who invested in the original game, are we to be penalised with only 2 slots, oh and the argument of 'well dont link' doesnt cut it.
To be competitive and retain all the unlocked skills etc i need to merge the accounts. If i was offered 3 slots i'd be happy - covers the pvp, 1 slot for asn, 1 slot for rit. And it would show Anet had a bit more concern for its original pbase and not for all the new people.
Now i dont care how gung ho people are for 2 slots only, and how wonderful Anet is. Myself and many people feel let down by Anet and quite frankly the odd rant to let it all out is healthier than the usual carebear gushings.

perfect post

lyra_song · Mar 06, 2006, 03:17 PM // 15:17

Chap 2 is interesting.

If you buy it alone, it is a stand alone game, because you have a fresh account with no data.

If you merge it, it becomes an expansion, because you are still using your old characters.

People are annoyed because they feel that they will be paying for those 4 new slots and being denied it and only given access to 2 new slots.

But in reality, if you merge it, you ALREADY used up your 4 new slots with your 4 existing characters (or 3 + 1 pvp with some of us).

Before everything was cleared up, this was the issue i worried about the most. Because of the whole "merging" and access to both contents idea, i assumed that existing accounts would get 1 new slot at most.

Kakumei · Mar 06, 2006, 03:26 PM // 15:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by Raif

oh wait. full game price for 2 character slots .. twitch..

No, you're paying full game price (~$50) for either four/two character slots (depending on whether you link or not) and content equal to or greater than what was found in Prophecies.

Yep. You're getting screwed.

Mordakai · Mar 06, 2006, 03:34 PM // 15:34

Whoops, my mistake on the 8 vs 6 Professions.

While my math was wrong, my point is still valid:

The slots in Factions is not the problem. The slots in the Orginal Guild Wars is.

For those not buying Factions b/c of the slots, obviously, that's your choice.

Just realize that logically, complaining about 2 slots for $50 seems trivial when Factions only has 1/3 the Professions of the original Guild Wars (2 profs. vs the original 6).

So, why isn't there any great outrage about that? Surely, that's a bigger "content" issue, is it not?

Also, does anyone here think they did not get their money's worth on the Original Guild Wars?

Mosch · Mar 06, 2006, 04:14 PM // 16:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by lyra_song

But in reality, if you merge it, you ALREADY used up your 4 new slots with your 4 existing characters (or 3 + 1 pvp with some of us).

This is a strange way of looking at it. The four slots I have already paid for a suddenly new because I merged the Expansion with it?
I have bought GW which offers four slots. I buy the next chapter that has 4 slots and two new professions. However, if I want to actually use it as an expansion, I only get 2 slots.
So I get 2 slots while other people get 4 slots. There are no new 4 slots, there are not 6 slots, there are just 2 slots for the returning customer.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mordakai

The slots in Factions is not the problem. The slots in the Orginal Guild Wars is.

Right! And ANet blew their chance to remedy the problem and make a lot of people happy with the strange policy about slots on the expansion.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mordakai

Just realize that logically, complaining about 2 slots for $50 seems trivial when Factions only has 1/3 the Professions of the original Guild Wars (2 profs. vs the original 6).

So, why isn't there any great outrage about that? Surely, that's a bigger "content" issue, is it not?

Because generally Factions is seen as an expansion, not a standalone game, despite what ANet tries to propagate.
By the way, Factions has 8 classes, the 6 core classes and the two new ones...

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mordakai

Also, does anyone here think they did not get their money's worth on the Original Guild Wars?

I think I did get my money's worth, no doubt. I had a lot of fun with the game and I thought the little quirks and problems I have with it would be corrected in the expansion. They won't so I won't buy any more.

Mordakai · Mar 06, 2006, 04:21 PM // 16:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mosch

This is a strange way of looking at it. The four slots I have already paid for a suddenly new because I merged the Expansion with it?
I have bought GW which offers four slots. I buy the next chapter that has 4 slots and two new professions. However, if I want to actually use it as an expansion, I only get 2 slots.
So I get 2 slots while other people get 4 slots. There are no new 4 slots, there are not 6 slots, there are just 2 slots for the returning customer.

There are 4 slots if you install separately, 2 if you merge. It's your choice.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mosch

Because generally Factions is seen as an expansion, not a standalone game, despite what ANet tries to propagate.
By the way, Factions has 8 classes, the 6 core classes and the two new ones...

Factions only has two new Professions. Period. That's less than Prophecy, yet no one is complaining about that. Why not? B/c, as you yourself say, it's considered an expansion by those merging accounts.

So, less Professions, less slots if you merge. It logically makes sense.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mosch

I think I did get my money's worth, no doubt. I had a lot of fun with the game and I thought the little quirks and problems I have with it would be corrected in the expansion. They won't so I won't buy any more.

And that's your right.

Loviatar · Mar 06, 2006, 04:22 PM // 16:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mordakai

So, why isn't there any great outrage about that? Surely, that's a bigger "content" issue, is it not?

Also, does anyone here think they did not get their money's worth on the Original Guild Wars?

i posted in the first month after release that i had already gotten my moneys worth of fun and that anything after that was icing on the cake.

lots and lots of icing as it turns out.

Quote:

Stub
well obviously....if they restrict our character space, we have to buy more accounts....which is more money for them....which is greed, but i can condradict myself...

THIS IS IMPORTANT

to those saying greed is the cause step back for a moment and think.

WOW has possibly 60-75 MILLION DOLLARS coming in every month ON TOP of the purchase price of the game

we have no idea of what Anets actual expences are against sales income.

what poeple see as greed may in fact be the difference between profit and loss

until you have seen actually certified books for income taxes nobody (including me) knows if they are operating at a startup loss which will become profitable in the future or rolling in cash like uncle Scrooge

i can say that startup costs can be brutal

greed? or survival?

Mordakai · Mar 06, 2006, 04:28 PM // 16:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by Loviatar

THIS IS IMPORTANT

to those saying greed is the cause step back for a moment and think.

WOW has possibly 60-75 MILLION DOLLARS coming in every month ON TOP of the purchase price of the game

Actually, I read that WoW topped the 6 million subscriber mark.

If 6 million people are paying $15 a month, that's 90 million a month.

It's no wonder there are (at least) 67 MMORPGS either out or in development...

Loviatar · Mar 06, 2006, 04:46 PM // 16:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mosch

I have bought GW which offers four slots. I buy the next chapter that has 4 slots and two new professions. However, if I want to actually use it as an expansion, I only get 2 slots.
So I get 2 slots while other people get 4 slots. There are no new 4 slots, there are not 6 slots, there are just 2 slots for the returning customer.

here is your mistake

it is not an expansion even though you (and others) keep treating it as one.

if i purchase Factions i get a full, complete game and have 4 slots to play it with.

no quick short change expansion but a full game of content

you are given the opportunity to do 2 things

continue the adventure you started by combining your accounts and having 6 slots or playing Factions as a separate stand alone game with 4 slots

if you combine them and have 4 long term treasured characters you can play them through the whole new games content PLUS start 2 new characters as well or you can delete as many as you want and have up to 6 new slots to play the game

Quote:

Right! And ANet blew their chance to remedy the problem and make a lot of people happy with the strange policy about slots on the expansion.

there is no problem to remedy as that is how the game was set upfrom the start and after FIVE FULL YEARS of making the game they still decided on 4 slots

it was not a coin filp last minute decision

Quote:

Because generally Factions is seen as an expansion, not a standalone game, despite what ANet tries to propagate.

and that is your perception which is shown above to not be correct.

no expansion gives a full content stand along game.

Baldurs gate 2 had a full game but continued the story

it was not called an expansion and Factions giving a full standalone game is not an expansion either

Quote:

I think I did get my money's worth, no doubt. I had a lot of fun with the game and I thought the little quirks and problems I have with it would be corrected in the expansion. They won't so I won't buy any more.

i am glad you enjoyed chapter one and as for chapter two that is your right and i wish you good luck on your next game

Mosch · Mar 06, 2006, 04:52 PM // 16:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mordakai

There are 4 slots if you install separately, 2 if you merge. It's your choice.

Right! And I don't know why I should only get 2 slots if the game was definitely calculated with 4! That is the whole problem I have with it

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mordakai

Factions only has two new Professions. Period. That's less than Prophecy, yet no one is complaining about that. Why not? B/c, as you yourself say, it's considered an expansion by those merging accounts.

So, less Professions, less slots if you merge. It logically makes sense.

Plese reread what I posted. I don't want four slots to make two As and two RIs. I was hoping for the expansion to remedy one of the biggest problems of the first game and have been disappointed.
(And by the way, you did not speak of new classes in your last post, so I assumed you thought there would only be two classes available

)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mordakai

And that's your right.

Still, I would rather buy the new expansion.... if they made a little change to it

Loviatar, it would be incredibly stupid to calculate that way. If ANet needed to sell more than one copy of the game to each customer just to break even this business venture would never have started in the first place.

Argh, Loviatar ninja'd a post in! Editing right now

Quote:

Originally Posted by Loviatar

here is your mistake

it is not an expansion even though you (and others) keep treating it as one.

if i purchase Factions i get a full, complete game and have 4 slots to play it with.

no quick short change expansion but a full game of content

I can expand the game I have already I have already bought by adding Factions. You could call it Stand-Alone, Stand-Along or wibble, it won't change the fact that it [I]was programmed to expand the story of the first game.[/]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Loviatar

you are given the opportunity to do 2 things

continue the adventure you started by combining your accounts and having 6 slots or playing Factions as a separate stand alone game with 4 slots

if you combine them and have 4 long term treasured characters you can play them through the whole new games content PLUS start 2 new characters as well or you can delete as many as you want and have up to 6 new slots to play the game

Let me reiterate it once again: I have paid for a game that offers four character slots. I only get two if I am a returning customer. WHY?
You don't need to tell me what I get and pretend it's an argument.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Loviatar

there is no problem to remedy as that is how the game was set upfrom the start and after FIVE FULL YEARS of making the game they still decided on 4 slots

it was not a coin filp last minute decision

So, just because it was developed over the course of several years the game cannot be flawed? How come there are patches? Surely the skills are all great and dandy the way they were in 1.0, after all it has been developed for a long time?
(Also, think about how long Daikatana was in development - and what we finally got

)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Loviatar

and that is your perception which is shown above to not be correct.

Expands the game therefore is an expansion. Or a wibble.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Loviatar

no expansion gives a full content stand along game.

The Painkiller Expansion does.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Loviatar

it was not called an expansion and Factions giving a full standalone game is not an expansion either

If it is a standalone game, then why does it continue the story and can link to your first game?