Curse

Loviatar · Mar 04, 2006, 07:04 PM // 19:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mosch

Yes, I know. But I still do not like the product they are offering. Also they make it unnecessarily hard to get more character slots.

Well, I'm not going to repeat myself again.

actually what they are doing and have been doing is more sharpely define their product as they go along.

examples

the hardcore pvp person unwilling to do more than make a few click character adjustments was shaken out by Anets refusal to cave in on the UAS/ALL issue

the hardcore leveling people who actually define themselves by having a higher level number to SHOW people (like a rank emote) how much superior they are were shaken out by Anets refusal to budge on the level cap

the hardcore item people who live for the next super stat item that will one hit kill anything were shaken out by Anet refusing to put the balance destroying stat items in the game

the hardcore crafting/fishing people left when they decided smith/logger/basketweaver/etc were not going to be added

now some more (not many) hardcore i must have one of each or i leave shaking out is happening.

this is more for someone to play for a bit, do something else (i have some good books on preorder), and return as they feel like it.

and unless they are lying the number of active accounts is going up not down and the various tracking services show continued good sales.

i guess it will actually have to wait for sales results to be in for a bit to see if they are right or wrong as my chrystal ball is foggy

Katari · Mar 04, 2006, 07:19 PM // 19:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thom

2)Anet makes its profit from keeping the game interesting for casual gamers, so anything that gives a huge advantage to the 300+ hour crowd will never be good for guild wars business.

Having two additional slots gives a signifigant advantage how?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thom

3)Having 8 character slots as the norm is going to give a significant advantage to people with the time to build 8 characters. This is due to several things (space, more weapons access, easier trend conformity...), but it is enough to say if we are arguing this passionately about it, there must be some advantage.

We don't have to delete our characters to play another class. We're not trying to argue that there should be a uberhax god mode, and two char slots would give us that.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thom

4)Linking will be open to abuse. Abuse kills MMO's.

I can see much more potential abuse with two accounts than I can see with two adidional character slots. One account holds 1.4M gold, two accounts hold 2.8M gold, and one account with six slots would hold 1.6M gold. Two accounts can run eachother places, and they can hold more items

Quote:

5)Any abuse proof linking will be of the 100+100=175 form, not 100+100=225. You won't like it if they allow it.

100+100=225? No, I think we're asking for 100+100=200. I'm still not sure where the abuse is.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thom

6)Linking abuse will cause headaches for the consumer side of things. Which is more costs for NC.

If by headaches you mean more happy customers, then sure.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thom

7)Linking won't necessarily be all positive for Anet. You will get many people buying another copy and many quitting guild wars because they no longer see it as a cheap/casual gaming option.

Nono, I belive you have it backwards. See, that is what is happening now, with no linking. Some people buy another copy, some leave, and others just won't buy factions. I no longer see it as a cheap option, because I have to buy two copies to get the full game. I don't remember who said this first, but it's like buying a NHL game, getting all the teams, but only being able to play two thirds of them.

Again, the my complain is not that we'd have to pay for slots, but that a second account is just such a bad option. Sell slots, let me link accounts, but a seperate account isn't good enough.

Mosch · Mar 04, 2006, 07:50 PM // 19:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by Loviatar

actually what they are doing and have been doing is more sharpely define their product as they go along.

If that was true, it would be a pretty stupid move. After all you would try to reach a braoder base of customers, wouldn't you?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Loviatar

examples

the hardcore pvp person unwilling to do more than make a few click character adjustments was shaken out by Anets refusal to cave in on the UAS/ALL issue

Unlocking all skills and giving two more character slots are completely different things.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Loviatar

the hardcore leveling people who actually define themselves by having a higher level number to SHOW people (like a rank emote) how much superior they are were shaken out by Anets refusal to budge on the level cap

Which is a balance decision. Having more characters available can not change the balance because you can always only play one.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Loviatar

the hardcore item people who live for the next super stat item that will one hit kill anything were shaken out by Anet refusing to put the balance destroying stat items in the game

Actually there is a compromise: There are rare, neat items, but those don't give you an unfair advantage.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Loviatar

the hardcore crafting/fishing people left when they decided smith/logger/basketweaver/etc were not going to be added

This is an additional feature that would change the game on a wide scale.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Loviatar

now some more (not many) hardcore i must have one of each or i leave shaking out is happening.

So you think they are actually trying to get rid of people that are interested in playing all the classes available?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Loviatar

this is more for someone to play for a bit, do something else (i have some good books on preorder), and return as they feel like it.

There you go again with the books. I have books too, and I'll top you by saying that I even have several brushes and paint!
This is not about your books and nobody can tell me ANets business goal is to get people interested in reading. Or whatever it is you are trying to say. Also, I suppose the reading crowd will get FOW armour by answering a quiz about Robinson Crusoe?
Seriously, I don't get what you are trying to say.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Loviatar

and unless they are lying the number of active accounts is going up not down and the various tracking services show continued good sales.

That's nice, but I fail to see the relevance towards the current discussion.

Rayea · Mar 04, 2006, 08:05 PM // 20:05

hehe..im still here, and im a hardcore crafting person ^^
and i got books...and paints, and BEADS :P bet taht mosch (jk)

i dont think they are trying to force players to leave, nor to purchase extra accounts, though i think that might be something they hope most of us do...i for one, only ever considered it for a few secconds, if i wasnt able to buy the keys as a stand alone item so i dont have 2 copies of the box, the cd and all the rest of the junk that comes in the box (as aposed to downloading when i already have a game cd)

i think its more about the fact that it seems...well, like they have changed thier minds and are now saying,
'oh, i didnt mean to give you 4 slots, so heres the deal, you can give me back two, and have 6 slots on a linked account and get all the classess and all the areas, or you can keep the 4 i just gave you, but only get half on each.'

(and i think *point of acension* and accended are two different things....sure, SF is for lvl 20 as such, but unless you GET accended, or get run to droks, it dosent matter...since, and thins is not from personal experiance, im told you go to droks after you do the sccention trip)

Loviatar · Mar 04, 2006, 08:37 PM // 20:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rayea

hehe..im still here, and im a hardcore crafting person ^^
and i got books...and paints, and BEADS :P bet taht mosch (jk)

i dont think they are trying to force players to leave, nor to purchase extra accounts)

i will see your beads and confess to raising the occasional orchid and loving cats

they are not trying to force people to leave but simply to define a new game type.

since you cant please everybody Anet has to reach as broad a base as they can within the plan they have for the game.

each of the catagories i mentioned have a large portion who (to varying degrees) will accept that what Anet is offering is fun and worth it.

there will be a small portion of that catagory who say give us this and all of this or we walk no other option will suffice (those will leave)

that is what i mean by shaking out

the extreames of all sorts leave and leave as broad a base as possible to build on

Rayea · Mar 04, 2006, 08:48 PM // 20:48

yeah, but if they follow that thread, it ends up with a few folks running tur pve and everyone else doing pvp...

i alread know somone that left because all the skill rebalances were for pvp players and did affect pve
(in that the way you play can be altered simply by a few skills changing. feel pity for the pve ele that just comes out of pre searing, only to find everything else running from their firestorms, where as pre critters didnt run)

and HE was the casual gamer..if he wanted to het hardcore, he used to hunker down in bed and play hs consoles for hours, like me.

personaly, i prefer a game company to not just try to be the best for the broadest group (ie, the casual, ill pick it up for a week then toss it out if it take up to much time, and i will buy any game that is a licence game like a harry potter or a catwoman type carbon copy game)
i prefer them to make a good game that will apeal to many types of players without worrying that they need to be mass market to make it good...

we know its good, but its just getting too close to a kind of game that everyone had for a month or two, then traded in..oh, wait, we cant trade it in...*rolls eyes*
(using the had for a month then traded to mean a generic type game...the equivelent of gameing cannon fodder, and not half as good as that game was ether....)

and its 100% certain that you cant plese all of the people all of the time, unless you live in a totalitarian state that uses mind controle and drugs to make everyone the same...*shrugs*

Loviatar · Mar 04, 2006, 09:09 PM // 21:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rayea

yeah, but if they follow that thread, it ends up with a few folks running tur pve and everyone else doing pvp...

i alread know somone that left because all the skill rebalances were for pvp players and did affect pve
(in that the way you play can be altered simply by a few skills changing. feel pity for the pve ele that just comes out of pre searing, only to find everything else running from their firestorms, where as pre critters didnt run)

*

first note i am pvE only and do miss all the little monsters crowding into a small area and waiting patiently while i hit them with firestorm,searing heat repeatedly until dead.

that had no bearing on PVP for the simple reason a pvp real person will step to the right (or left) 2 steps and go nice firestorm.

so pvp had no effect on making the enemy more realistic.

do you think there will be screams if they fix the AI so a group of enemy follows you around a corner instead of trying to shoot through it?

picture 6 skeleton rangers shooting poison at you as you run around a corner and start laughing at them while you regain your health and energy like usual........................

but this time they follow you around the corner and keep shooting

got to go as my little master wants to be patted a bit.

Rayea · Mar 04, 2006, 09:31 PM // 21:31

um, been there, done that, but in elona...maybe the magic goes right thru the stone..it muct be made from the same stuff Alesia is made from, since she regularly warps thru walls with me ^^

and last rime i tried to get to ToA without sneaking around thru the swamp, they followd we me everywhere...i was just glad the DP dosent go past 60%, or i would have had to be on life support monk, with -10 hp constanltly

hope you gave the little guy/gal a pat for me, since we kept ya talking/typingin hehe

Thom · Mar 05, 2006, 12:59 AM // 00:59

Few more points, there seems to be two arguments here: one about linking accounts one about having more faction slots. Let me briefly explain the advantage:
1)Some pvp significant armor and weapons are available only through pve, holding more pvp slots increases your likelihood of getting those.
2)As it stands, hardcore pvpers all use pvp characters so they have more weapons/armor options which can be adjusted in match.
3)8 characters means that you really must have 8 fully prepped characters for high end PvP, which is a barrier.
4)Trend conformity: if you don't have a class you can't conform so you might as well build something else. Helps keep the pvp population a bit balanced. Prophets path is a great example of a change in trend and resulting frictions.
5)f(x,y)>x+y with six slots as oppose to 2 unlinked four slot accounts. If they had a prophecy+prophecy linking option it will definitely be less the two independent (if it is abuse proof).

The game is not targeted at you, but at casual gamers. This means you will not like everything and not everything will conform to what you want, but you can still have fun.

Katari · Mar 05, 2006, 01:40 AM // 01:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thom

Few more points, there seems to be two arguments here: one about linking accounts one about having more faction slots. Let me briefly explain the advantage:
1)Some pvp significant armor and weapons are available only through pve, holding more pvp slots increases your likelihood of getting those.
2)As it stands, hardcore pvpers all use pvp characters so they have more weapons/armor options which can be adjusted in match.
3)8 characters means that you really must have 8 fully prepped characters for high end PvP, which is a barrier.
4)Trend conformity: if you don't have a class you can't conform so you might as well build something else. Helps keep the pvp population a bit balanced. Prophets path is a great example of a change in trend and resulting frictions.
5)f(x,y)>x+y with six slots as oppose to 2 unlinked four slot accounts. If they had a prophecy+prophecy linking option it will definitely be less the two independent (if it is abuse proof).

The game is not targeted at you, but at casual gamers. This means you will not like everything and not everything will conform to what you want, but you can still have fun.

1. So I have a War, Ele, Monk, Nec. Being able to play a ranger and mesmer would make me more likely to get an item how?

2. Oh, but that dosn't matter, as you said, the game was not designed for hardcore players. If that matters, well then we can claim A.Net is limiting PvE for PvP's sake.

3. Having to have high end gear is not a barrier for PvP. A PvP only char works fine. With the HoD helm on the PvP-only menu now, no class gains a signifigant advantage by being PvE. You seem to be under the assumption that every PvE player will equip their chars with perfect PvP gear. Do I have that right? That maybe they'll do nothing else untill they reach their goal? Is that true? Is that a barrier?

4. How does acess to PvE areas with a class relate in any way to PvP balance? Remember, PvP chars can use storage too. That means they can get any item a PvP-only char can. PvE warriors and ragners may indeed have better options, but hey, they're only two classes.

5. What? I'm not sure what you're saying, but I still hold that 100+100=200

If adding something would please the 'hardcore' players, and have little effect on 'casual' players, I don't see why it would be avoided. Ask a casual player "Would you leave if players had the option to add two character slots to their account?" When you get "Yes, I would leave, I do not want players to have more character slots." as a response, come back here. Now, when you get a few hundred responses like than, then I might belive that it is indeed in A.Nets best intrest not to add slots.

(Note: I said option to add slots. Again, I'm not saying I nessacarly want them to be free. The only current option, buying a second account is not a good option.)

Gli · Mar 05, 2006, 01:46 AM // 01:46

So this is a game for casual PvE players but hardcore PvPers then? That makes me feel better about leaving, thanks for the heads up.

Defender Of Orth · Mar 05, 2006, 02:25 AM // 02:25

4+4=6?

ANET needs to go back to school

Loviatar · Mar 05, 2006, 02:39 AM // 02:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gli

So this is a game for casual PvE players but hardcore PvPers then? That makes me feel better about leaving, thanks for the heads up.

ummm no

i said that the ultra hardcore pvp crowd that considered any preparation (even pvp faction) was too much work before they could do serious pvp gaming were the ones shaken out.

sort of like the i MUST have one of each primary (plus a pvp) slot or suddenly after all this fun time spent it suddenly is a rip off instead of fun so i quit.

did you ever have to sit through Swan Lake?

just when you thought she was gone .........there she goes again.....one more time..........and again

Katari · Mar 05, 2006, 02:46 AM // 02:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by Loviatar

ummm no

i said that the ultra hardcore pvp crowd that considered any preparation (even pvp faction) was too much work before they could do serious pvp gaming were the ones shaken out.

sort of like the i MUST have one of each primary (plus a pvp) slot or suddenly after all this fun time spent it suddenly is a rip off instead of fun so i quit.

did you ever have to sit through Swan Lake?

just when you thought she was gone .........there she goes again.....one more time..........and again

Ah, but it wasn't like that Lovitar. We didn't go from being perfectly fine, to fliping out when we hard that announcment. Not quite. All (Or most) the people arguing in favor of additional slots, have been doing so for months. This is not a new issue, people have been bothered by this for months, and like all problems, it will not go away on it's own.

Thom · Mar 05, 2006, 04:15 AM // 04:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by Katari

1. So I have a War, Ele, Monk, Nec. Being able to play a ranger and mesmer would make me more likely to get an item how?

2. Oh, but that dosn't matter, as you said, the game was not designed for hardcore players. If that matters, well then we can claim A.Net is limiting PvE for PvP's sake.

3. Having to have high end gear is not a barrier for PvP. A PvP only char works fine. With the HoD helm on the PvP-only menu now, no class gains a signifigant advantage by being PvE. You seem to be under the assumption that every PvE player will equip their chars with perfect PvP gear. Do I have that right? That maybe they'll do nothing else untill they reach their goal? Is that true? Is that a barrier?

4. How does acess to PvE areas with a class relate in any way to PvP balance? Remember, PvP chars can use storage too. That means they can get any item a PvP-only char can. PvE warriors and ragners may indeed have better options, but hey, they're only two classes.

5. What? I'm not sure what you're saying, but I still hold that 100+100=200

If adding something would please the 'hardcore' players, and have little effect on 'casual' players, I don't see why it would be avoided. Ask a casual player "Would you leave if players had the option to add two character slots to their account?" When you get "Yes, I would leave, I do not want players to have more character slots." as a response, come back here. Now, when you get a few hundred responses like than, then I might belive that it is indeed in A.Nets best intrest not to add slots.

(Note: I said option to add slots. Again, I'm not saying I nessacarly want them to be free. The only current option, buying a second account is not a good option.)

Was typing quickly earlier so I'll clarify.
1)If you have fully equipped (multiple armor, helms, weapons) characters with all 6(soon to be 8) professions, this gives you a significant PvP advantage. As it stands now, top pvp players are fully equipped in half of the professions.

2)The game is targeted to sell primarily to casual gamers because it has a high end balanced PvP. Most Magic players are casual, but the game is good enough to be interesting at a high level and is balanced for that level of play. The game isn't really balanced for high end pve; I know how much time was spent testing each, and high end PvEing got much less attention. This philosophy may change a bit next expansion, but generally the game was balanced for tombs and GvG and individual PvE areas were adjusted to fit around PvP (from a skill/item balance point of view). More than half of the high end PvE content was released late (Shadow's furnace, PvE tombs).

3)Look at all the high end characters(iQ,WM,EvIL), notably warriors and monks. Most of them are PvE. I know for a fact that iQ did a ton of farming at one point. Top guilds will equip with perfect gear. There are a variety weapons that are extemely pvp useful that are not available through PvE. Negative energy shields, low requirement weapons, shields, etc, candy cane gear. Most important would be the abilty to adjust armor to the needs of the match. PvP characters are good, but to play at a top level you really need a PvE character (warriors especially). Some teams don't even set attributes until they see their opponents build... gear comes in handy with such approaches.

4)You can transfer most anything, but there is no way to customize weapons, armor etc. Rangers and Warriors obviously get the biggest PvE boost, but it matters for monks as well.

5)I was just explaining that in a general sense of my statement. Take three options: A)For the current anet option. B) for linking current Anet accounts. C)For the purposed 8 slot plan. Let U be the utility for hardcore PvEers:
U(C)>U(B)>U(A)
I argue that casual gamers will look a bit more like this:
U(C)~U(A)>U(B)
And finally utility for hardcore PvP crowd (anti grind group):
U(A)>U(C)>U(B)

I'm just trying to formalize how I feel things are in quasi-utility terms. I keep noting that the game was not made for hardcore PvEers. Anet is obviously glad you are around, but they really didn't expect that attention from that group of players. They actually came out and said as much in an interview once. The "plan" was always to use PvE as a short RPG which opens up a rich PvP game. That generally hasn't changed, but they have already changed Factions so that in integrates more high level PvE and interactions between PvE and PvP.

There has been and will continue to be better options for high end PvE type play. This type of discussion has gone on forever. In a way Guild Wars is trying to support too many types of play. I feel that factions will be another stab at the delicate balance. Hopefully you won't have to play the game through 5 times in order to have a fulfilling experience (ie, there should be hundreds of hours of unique play without ever starting a new character).

LaserLight · Mar 05, 2006, 04:25 AM // 04:25

Quote:

The only thing that we get 100% of with four slots is the explorable area. Everything else has primary profession limits, therefore limiting the number of primary professions we can play (unless we delete the precious time we spent on previous professions), does not equate to 100% of the content being playable. None of my characters from Chapter One will be able to explore the tutorial world in Chap Two - a whole bunch of content I am missing, and will only have two chances to play with the two new slots. Using those two slots for Factions characters will not allow those characters to explore the tutorial of Chap One. So either way, there is even more content being missed, which in effect lowers that 75% for linked accounts back down to 67%, if not lower.

If I read this right...you're actually asking for sixteen slots now?

If the continent-specific tutorials count as vital content, then you'd need one character of each class to go through each tutorial. And when Chapter 3 hits, and if it holds to two new professions...you'd need thirty slots, so as to put ten professions apiece through each continent's tutorial?

Or you could spend an afternoon or two going through each tutorial in the same single slot, deleting characters once they get past that stage. Given that it takes maybe four hours tops to get through the tutorials, even with sixteen tutorials to go you'd be able to do it reasonably quickly. And I doubt you'd get fixatedly attached to a tutorial character in four hours. I've gone through the tutorial with every class save Mesmer, and yet I only have two characters that actually stuck it out afterwards.

Problem solved, argument countered.

As for the people still claiming that ArenaNet is stealing two slots from them...you realize that you're fueling the argument claiming a required minimum of four slots a chapter, right? After all, if they're stealing them from you now, then they're stealing them from you in every expansion, whether you've actually got the number of slots you're arguing for or not. 100 + 100 may equal 200, but what if you only need the 175? Because if you get your 100 + 100 = 200 now, you'll never, ever accept that 200 + 100 = 275, even though you only need the 275. So on and so forth.

All I'm asking is that, instead of bedeviling Anet for every reason one can find, people show appreciation for what has been done. People claiming to love the game and to be perfectly willing to play it given the slots are also the ones sniping at Guild Wars and Anet without remorse. Whatever your odd math, whatever your frustration, quit blaming it exclusively on Anet. Perhaps some of the reason you're all so pissed off is that, perhaps, your demands aren't quite as reasonable as you keep stating? After all, I really don't think anyone here needs sixteen slots on one account.

Katari · Mar 05, 2006, 04:48 AM // 04:48

So if I get all that right, the lack of slots is a balance feature. It balances high-end PvP by forcing them to grind if they want to be flexable? Am I getting that right?

Raven_Scythe · Mar 05, 2006, 04:48 AM // 04:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thom

4)You can transfer most anything, but there is no way to customize weapons, armor etc. Rangers and Warriors obviously get the biggest PvE boost, but it matters for monks as well.

Didn't Anet announce merchants will be available in guild halls? If I'm correct weaponsmiths are among them. Weaponsmiths customize weapons. Since PvP characters can go to halls and can easily grab 10g from storage, how is customization not going to be a future option for them?

Hanok Odbrook · Mar 05, 2006, 06:58 AM // 06:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by LaserLight

If I read this right...you're actually asking for sixteen slots now?

No - there are specific quests that can only be done by the primes of each profession. In order to do all prime only quests, you need enough primes to do them - in the case of C1+C2, eight characters - one of each prime.

Quote:

Originally Posted by LaserLight

Or you could spend an afternoon or two going through each tutorial in the same single slot, deleting characters once they get past that stage. Given that it takes maybe four hours tops to get through the tutorials, even with sixteen tutorials to go you'd be able to do it reasonably quickly. And I doubt you'd get fixatedly attached to a tutorial character in four hours. I've gone through the tutorial with every class save Mesmer, and yet I only have two characters that actually stuck it out afterwards.

That would be correct if the explorable tutorial and those related quests were the only included definitions of content. Again, my def of content is:
1) Explorable areas
2) Quests & Missions
3) Usable items (armor and weapons)
4) Character Stats & Skills
5) Game Play Strategy

Even by doing as you claim, I am missing out on #'s 3-5 in the whole of the Post-Searing world of C1, and its equivalent in C2. As such, I still am not able to play 100% of either chapter without having to run through the entire game, then delete all that time as if it meant nothing.

Quote:

Originally Posted by LaserLight

As for the people still claiming that ArenaNet is stealing two slots from them...you realize that you're fueling the argument claiming a required minimum of four slots a chapter, right? After all, if they're stealing them from you now, then they're stealing them from you in every expansion, whether you've actually got the number of slots you're arguing for or not. 100 + 100 may equal 200, but what if you only need the 175? Because if you get your 100 + 100 = 200 now, you'll never, ever accept that 200 + 100 = 275, even though you only need the 275. So on and so forth.

The people you are referring to are a minority, and incorrect. What the majority of us are asking for is to bring the number of character slots in line with the number of primary professions. We would like to have 8 slots with a linked C1 & C2 account. If C3 introduces two more primes, then yes, we want an additional two slots on top of the then current eight. If C4 introduces no new primes, or only one, then we do not need nor want an additional slot, or we just want the one in order to create a character with the new prime. That's all we're asking for, nothing more and nothing less.

Quote:

Originally Posted by LaserLight

All I'm asking is that, instead of bedeviling Anet for every reason one can find, people show appreciation for what has been done. People claiming to love the game and to be perfectly willing to play it given the slots are also the ones sniping at Guild Wars and Anet without remorse. Whatever your odd math, whatever your frustration, quit blaming it exclusively on Anet. Perhaps some of the reason you're all so pissed off is that, perhaps, your demands aren't quite as reasonable as you keep stating? After all, I really don't think anyone here needs sixteen slots on one account.

Didn't ask for sixteen and won't ask for sixteen until there are sixteen prime professions. It would be nice to be able to take new characters through both tutorial worlds, and current characters through the new toot, but that really is as unreasonable as asking for enough slots to cover every prime/secondary combo, and that's something that no one has asked for.

We do show appreciation. I have stated many times that Anet has done a fantastic job and I applaud them for their insight and ingenuity. However, that doesn't mean they haven't made mistakes, and it's better to "complain" about it now and get them fixed than it is to wait until the time another dev making a Fantasy based COORPG does offer what many players of GW want, and if they do so along with making a playing experience that matches or beats GW, then Anet will be sunk, and it will be everyone else who starts complaining when they try to log in to their accounts only to find the servers have been removed. SW Galaxies is the perfect example of a dev neglecting to fix a very bad design, until too late, and now things are even worse. I'm willing to bet that Galaxies will be gone within the next couple of years. I just don't want the same to happen to GW.

Hanok Odbrook
Real Millennium Group Guild
Truth * Knowledge * Peace

Thom · Mar 05, 2006, 07:26 AM // 07:26

Hope so Raven. Something along those lines would be helpful. If they put a weapons smith and an armorer in the guild halls all of this will be solved.

Lack of slots is balance, grind reduction and a profit thing for A-net. Second accounts are readily available for those who want more grind (that or delete a character). The balance argument was simply responding to those who wanted to know why it is a significant balance advantage. I hope that kind of explains. At the moment a top PvPer will likely have a PvE warrior and 2 other fully characters outfitted, even casual gvgers are beginning to have 3 fully outfitted PvP characters after 9 months.

Really Prophecies was a first shot at the game, not a perfection. In a perfect game you really won't want to have time to go through the entire game with each character type in order to keep entertained with the PvP content. Think of Elder Scrolls: Morrowind was a long game if you did all the content. You may want to play it as a different class/race to get a different experience, but how many of you completely finished Morrowwind twice? The expansions provided some upper level stuff that was actually fairly challenging at times (I found it much more interesting than repeating the intial story). Maybe you create a character to become a vampire or something, but did you really play the game through the 10+ times to really experience it?

Difference between Morrowind and GW:Prophecies, Morrowind was designed as a top flight RPG and GW is a kind of combo mix game that was weak on the RPG side. GW also did a fairly bad job of combining its combo. PvP was independent except for the fact that you had to grind a bunch first. High end PvE really had nothing to do with anything except getting cool looking stuff...face it, half the greens are PvP useless. Faction is trying to resolve this by making PvE guild dependent and bringing the design focus away from early levelling. More relevant decisions in PvE and more interesting areas.

How is this relevant to player slots? Factions should gain its replayablity not from replaying the same linear mission, but from a great content richness at the higher level. Basically the only way to get replayablity out of Prophecy was starting over with a different class, if Factions is the same way Anet hasn't learned much. 4 interesting high end areas and a handful of quests really isn't enough.