Curse

Mordakai · Mar 01, 2006, 04:37 PM // 16:37

Deep breaths, everyone. I know everyone here genuinely cares about the issue, or else we wouldn't argue so passionately.

OK, is the argument about cost or not?

Some are arguing they would pay more for more slots. I don't buy into the theory that such a thing would destroy GW. BUT, there must be some rational explanation for why Anet is not giving 4 slots for combining Factions. At the very least, I tend to believe the idea that by including 4 slots now would make it very hard for Anet not to include 4 slots in future expansions.

The fact is, the longer the game is out, the more slots we will get. We may never have enough slots to play every primary, but as the expansions speed up (2 a year!), I see this as less and less a issue.

If each expansion includes two new classes (I'm not sure that's a trend that can continue indefinately), eventually there's bound to be a class that you won't want to play.

But such arguments do little to help the here and now.

Some people want to play (and keep) one character of each profession. That is a desire I can understand. They also want these characters all to have the same abilities (ie, linked accounts). I can understand this as well.

But, for whatever reason, Anet isn't going to let you do that.

So then the question becomes, are you willing to spend $50 for a couple of new chracters AND new content for your old characters?

It's really simple, either it's worth it to you or not. I'm not trying to insult people who say it's not worth it, that's their choice, and not my business.

BUT, I have to say: Don't say you'd spend $100 for 4 more slots, but won't spend $50 for 2 more slots. That just doesn't make sense.

Just say, in your opinion, $50 is too much for a 2 slot expansion.

/Keeping it real

WasAGuest · Mar 01, 2006, 04:40 PM // 16:40

The part that I don't get is this; call me for missing a point or something:

Factions is a standalone game. This to me means it's got totally new content that should be played with the character classes through and through. Meaning, like GW, I played through 4 times now with the slots I have available. Each time it was enjoyable (more so with some characters). The same should be able to be done with Factions... but with two slots, I can only do that twice. I find it odd to cut short the playability of the game for the players.

Note: I find PvP boring so I don't even do that, but it seems cut even shorter for those that PvP and PvE.

As for the reasons of hording and account sharing; nothing Anet does will ever really stop that. People will buy extra "mule" keys and mule the junk over - people will share accounts (though that would drive me nuts as there just isn't enough room for me now). It would, to me, make more since to just allow more slots to allow more game play.

Two is good, for about two weeks then I'll be done and wanting more.

Mordakai · Mar 01, 2006, 04:47 PM // 16:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by WasAGuest

The part that I don't get is this; call me for missing a point or something:

Factions is a standalone game. This to me means it's got totally new content that should be played with the character classes through and through. Meaning, like GW, I played through 4 times now with the slots I have available. Each time it was enjoyable (more so with some characters). The same should be able to be done with Factions... but with two slots, I can only do that twice. I find it odd to cut short the playability of the game for the players.

Um, you have 4 old character that can travel to Cantha and enjoy the new content.

And, yes, I realize you won't be able to bring them to the "training" part, and the low level content will probably be boring for 20th lev chars, but there IS new content for your 20th level characters.

And if you get bored with them, you can always delete them and make new ones. (I know, shocking concept to some).

Starsky-sama · Mar 01, 2006, 04:49 PM // 16:49

and let's try not to "dump" on the content and make it an added reason why ppl are not going to buy factions. (it's a full game content, we havent tried it yet)

Slots: its these darn Slots.....

sdliddo · Mar 01, 2006, 04:51 PM // 16:51

LOL. I for one am happy to see 2 slots instead of just one. Most complainers would complain anyway about everything. I probably would complain if I dont see a katana that can be purchased or obtained in Factions. LOL.

Anyway, I got one account and i sure as hell am linking it. Wishing ANET would make a shop to err... fix character appearances. I kinda like to see my female necro with differing hair styles every month or so. LOL

Raiin Maker · Mar 01, 2006, 05:00 PM // 17:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tainek

6+ 1 (Collectors edition) = 7 , Bah i hate playing Ele anyways :P

Thank goodness we know...

what do you mean (collectors edition), does the factions collectors get another slot? or is that the old collectors?

Loviatar · Mar 01, 2006, 05:03 PM // 17:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by Raiin Maker

what do you mean (collectors edition), does the factions collectors get another slot? or is that the old collectors?

RUMOR

Raiin Maker · Mar 01, 2006, 05:11 PM // 17:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by Loviatar

RUMOR

thanks for that, hope its true though

WasAGuest · Mar 01, 2006, 05:13 PM // 17:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mordakai

Um, you have 4 old character that can travel to Cantha and enjoy the new content.

And, yes, I realize you won't be able to bring them to the "training" part, and the low level content will probably be boring for 20th lev chars, but there IS new content for your 20th level characters.

And if you get bored with them, you can always delete them and make new ones. (I know, shocking concept to some).

You said it: "boring with them" - that's what I mean. Yea I can take my 4 level 20's with full sets of 15k (each) to the new areas and maybe find a new weapon to use. So really, I'll be playing the same character through the new high level stuff. As I said, that will be fun for a short time.
Point is gaining new stuff (from low level onward is part of the fun). I'm not one to jump or get run from place to place to grab Droks for example. I enjoy growing the character as I go. With Factions I will be able to do this twice, and that's it. This means I will never really be able to play with or have reason to use almost all the Factions content (armor and weapons). And while that is true now with GW, it is more so painful with Factions? Why?
Simple, currently there is 1/3 of the classes I can not play so there is 1/3 of the armor/gear/quests I can not do unless I delete someone (not going to do that, I like my characters). Add more content and that 1/3 grows. So I am purchasing content and not able to play it. All this due to lack of character slots.
I've never been able to play a Necro or Monk and adding two slots means I still can't, unless I don't want to play one of the new ones.

However, I find it genious (though I don't quite understand it from a relations point) that Anet is able to hang a carrot in front of us so well.

Solution: Give us 8 slots max. No matter how many expansions or add ons come out; 8 max.

Gli · Mar 01, 2006, 05:25 PM // 17:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by sdliddo

Most complainers would complain anyway about everything.

No, really. I've never complained about anything before. I'm not that kind of person.

I'll let you in on a little secret: blanket statements like that make you look less smart than I assume you're aiming for. You might want to avoid that.

Epinephrine · Mar 01, 2006, 05:31 PM // 17:31

I'm happy with a 2 slot increase - since like many players I will be keeping one slot for PvP it amounts to a 66% increase in my number of PvE slots.

Granted, I'd be thrilled if instead of a PvP slot I had a little "Play PvP" button, and it had a list of my saved templates as well as the standard ones. I could use the PvP slot for PvE then, or live with one fewer slot, but the idea of using a potential PvE slot is irritating. Since the storage of PvP toons is essentially no info (I mean, you don't need to worry about quest logs, experience (really, why bother), map areas exposed, what towns you have access to, unlocks for skills for the toon (it's just your PvP unlocks) and so on I don't see why a move to a little menu of saved types isn't doable.

But for those viewing it as a 50% increase, if you have a PvP slot it's a 66% increase - we get to go from having 3 PvE toons to 5, which will be more than enough for me I suspect. Best of all, if they continue offering 2 slots per expansion we'll easily get a nice number of slots to work with - I won't have time to bring 12 toons through an expansion anyway, so it'll be pointless. 3 was easy. 5 will be about right I suspect. You're more hardcore? Well, in a few expansions you could conceivably have a whole pile of PvE toons. While I'd like to have one of each priamary (for the skills gained while playing them and the experience of going through the game with them - thank goodness for my second account) I can't see actually doing so forever - I mean, 8 primaries is quite a few, moving up to 10 primaries would be absurd to try to advance them all through every chapter. No, this is actually much better than I expected, and probably suits a majority of the audience pretty well. Sure, I have 6 PvE toons right now, but I don't really need 10 (5 per account) with only 8 primaries :P

The Fox · Mar 01, 2006, 05:43 PM // 17:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by boxterduke

If they keep adding slots then we will have extra ones that other people in the house can use which is against EULA

Thats why I think its not a good idea to have new professions each chapter. It will be way unmanigable in the future especially with dual professions as Numa Pompilius puts it.

Not actually... an account can have an infinite # of slots and will still only let one person log in at a time. I really can't find a good reason why they don't price discriminate and allow demanding customers the ability to just buy more slots. If they're worried about a storage advantage, then put a cap on an account that only allows it to have 3 additionally purchases slots. This will give 2 more to offset the origional 4 of 6, and will provide the ability to BUY a slot for pvp.

FrogDevourer · Mar 01, 2006, 05:43 PM // 17:43

Let's get a few things straight.

Is more storage room equal to insanely rich farmers? A black or ecto is roughly worth 5k. A single storage slot can be used to stack 250 items. That's 1250 platinum per storage slot, 25 millions in your Xunlai stash alone, and almost 2 billions on a mule account. If you want to hold cash, you don't need more slots (100k per slots is ridiculous for a millionaire), you want more accounts. Even Chinese farmers wouldn't use multiple accounts if they were not mandatory to bypass anti-bot engines. Even worse, let's assume I'm a stupid farmer, and that I've hoarded entire inventories of non stackable items without selling them. I'll just buy a brand new account and create 4 mules on them. If farming and piling up items is my hobby, slots really are not a big problem. No, rich players don't need more slots to hold their wealth.

If ANet gives 4 slots for GW:F, will it be a tacit law for future chapters? In brief, who said character slots should be linked with chapters? ANet has said multiple times that only new content will have to be paid. New features have always been advertised as free (new NPCs, new UI...). The number of slots is a feature and it doesn't have to be intricately linked to the business model. On the contrary, to have a clear and healthy marketting policy (no hidden costs, yadda, yadda), slots should be dealt with separately. And if slots have to be sold for economic reasons (don't forget that a lot of GW copies are used by bot users and Chinese farmers), then what is the point of hiding this fact behind ridiculous marketting mathematics (6 = more fun than 4+4)?

Just let us merge clean accounts with our main accounts. Farmers and hardcore players will still buy the same amount of copies, and it might give veterans an incentive to buy more stuff from ANet instead of ebay. Players should be encouraged to buy GW:F to access its content (new skills, new professions, new quests...), and the problem of character slots should be decorrelated. You can use X slots where X is linked with the number of profession you can play, not the number of chapters you've bought.

What should be the slot limit? How many slots should we have (either with future chapters, account merging, or buyable slots)? The concensus is one for each PvE primary plus one PvP. My own request would be 6 normal slots plus a few 'trial slots'.

These trial slots would be usable either as PvP slots with a tiny amount of storage, or as special PvE characters you can reroll like PvP ones. The PvE trial characters would have access to all the stuff and places you've unlocked in PvE, but they would be drastically limited: minimal storage, and unable to gain XP or loot. They would be great to have the same options as in PvP, and the drastic limitation would shut down the most vehement arguments against them.

They would be perfect to try out a new build with different equipment, a skillbar based on skills you have unlocked on different PvE/PvP characters. In short, it would provide an ability to experiment with a very different playstyles (trapping, minions, nuking...) without being forced to grind for each lvl, each skill, and each equipment piece.

I'll say it again, veterans have more money than they can spend (barring frivolous ascetic items), a lot stuff unlocked. Grinding for points, or farming for their 'slot machine addiction' does not require more character slots. If someone wants more slots, it's for flexiblity and diversity. The only thing that could make their GW experience more thrilling would be more options and more diversity.

Will the problem disappear with future expansions (when we have 8/10 slots)?Yes and no. Long-standing players will certainly find a few professions they don't want to play and the problem will be less annoying for them. However new players who buy only the latest chapter will be stuck with 4 slots and 10+ different professions. Instead of experimenting and choosing their favourite playstyle, they'll rush to the most popular.

Would I still complain about something else if I were given more slots? Of course. As mentioned before, I'm able to unlock everything I need, and I can buy the fully ascended character slots I need from used accounts (I know, it's baaad). I'm not whining because I want to obtain something, or even to argue with those who don't want to understand my motivations. That would be selfish, stupid and pointless. As per usual, I know ANet is browsing these forums and listening to sensible arguments. I'm trying to provide relevant feedback for a richer gaming environment. You can LOLz if you're happy with only 1 PvE character, but it is not exactly constructive. If 2 slots is enough for you, there is no need to argue on a topic you don't understand. Post your opinion, and move on to the next thread.

Stormfall · Mar 01, 2006, 05:49 PM // 17:49

While I previously stated that I'm happy with 6 slots (again, currently we have access to 2/3 of primary professions - with a linked Factions account, we get 3/4, which I think some individuals who claim the addition of 2 slots is somehow taking away from what they already have, need to understand is a gain, not a loss), I can perfectly understand that others might disagree and want 8. They might even have some valid points - this is about opinion, not "right" and "wrong".

The reality is, ANet is giving us 6 character slots with a linked account. What I have trouble understanding is the response. "D'oh, I wanted 8. But, oh well, I really like this game so I'll just suck it up and keep playing," is rational enough. "I'm very disappointed that I'm not getting 8 slots, so I'm going to take my business elsewhere," is equally rational, I think admirable, and undoubtedly a factor that ANet considered when it was making its decision. "ANet is kicking sand in your eyes and fooling all you sheep! Your corporate overlord is shackling you and forcing you into playing within unfair limitations!" Now, wait a minute. Rhetoric like "deception", "crippling old accounts", "shackles" and "force" are a teensy bit extreme to be applying to this debate and not reflective of what is actually going on here.

I'm going to use as an example a real-life situation that happened to me when I was (*groan*) working for McDonald's in my high school days. As you know from going into any McDonald's "restaurant", the menu is displayed in full view above the front counter for everyone to see what that store offers for sale to its customers. One day, a woman came in and ordered her meal, but she wanted onion rings instead of fries - something we didn't sell. I informed her that I couldn't give her onion rings, but if she went to the A&W across the street, she could get some there. Her response was that she was willing to pay extra to get onion rings here. That's all well and good, but it simply wasn't on the menu - and therefore, wasn't going to happen. In this instance, I don't think I was "shackling" or "forcing" the customer by any means. Nor is ANet doing the same to its customers: it clearly states what's on the menu, and if the customer doesn't like what they see, there's another business across the street. That's the reality of the market.

Rayea · Mar 01, 2006, 05:55 PM // 17:55

I do hope you people remember that, unless they have changed their minds on the
*all characters accessing chapters past Prophecies campaign MUST have accended*
thing they were harping on about,
THERE IS NO POINT IN LINKING ACCOUNTS IF YOU DONT HAVE AcCENDED CHARATERS.
*ahem*...*cough*

so..if, like me and admitidly, a handfull of others who already have no Chap1 accendants, you have no accendeds, theres no point in linking chapters one and two

so, realy, offering to link accounts is mute. unless you have 100% accended characters, how are you going to travel between cantha and tyria?
the 100% fun equation is flawwed.

add to that the fact that there is ether the requirement of taking EACH of your chapter2 char to chap one and getting THEM accended...
*re press release ect in saying that ALL characters that wish to travel to FUTURE chaper expantions MUST have bee thru the accention process*

or something similar to accention in the Cantha regeion that your Chap2 players must acomplish....

linking only makes sence for whammo Wa/Mo players...and folks with large e-gold wallets or huge guilds to help them

(yes, i realise they they said you would be able to travel backwards from cnatha via the sea port, and from tyria via LA area port, but they also said that ONLY accended characters would be able to travel FROM the chap1 are to the Chap2 parts.)
[as to extra character slots...well, loosing 2 to gain 6 multi-chapter would be a little dissapointing, when faced with the alternative of simply questing to gain access to the prophecies areas from one account, since you are installing Chap2 on a Chap1 machine, it should KNOW you have access to said content....
however, if they chose to alow access to chap2 via linked accounts and removeing the need for those accounts to be accended, i would link in a heartbeat.]

{and, to the 'pay $$$ for 1 character slot' we have said that for all the time the game has been running....so thats probably mute too...*they would have done it by now....maybe more if we didnt go and buy more copies to get storeage chas ect...maybe we did it to ourselves, by showing them we will by extras...*sigh*}
*discalemr, personal oppinion*

FrogDevourer · Mar 01, 2006, 06:04 PM // 18:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by Epinephrine

Best of all, if they continue offering 2 slots per expansion we'll easily get a nice number of slots to work with - I won't have time to bring 12 toons through an expansion anyway, so it'll be pointless.

The problem is much more complex than that. You don't want to play through each chapter with each and every character, you want to save old characters you like and explore new options with new characters. So you *will* use all your slots even if you don't play each combination through each chapter. And you'll be stuck with one PvP slot, and even more rerolls because you'll have 10+ professions to choose from and not just 6. In short, linking the problem of character slots and playstyle diversity with chapters is missing an important point.

The problem is not the two additional slots for GW:F, it's the static 4 slots of the first chapter you buy . Few slots force you into repetitive PvE playstyle if you want to keep a precious character you have played for hundreds of hours. It's also the continual rerolls each time you change your PvP role.

sdliddo · Mar 01, 2006, 06:12 PM // 18:12

No i wasnt aiming to be smart. Smart has a lot of meanings. I was simply trying to say that complainers complain about a lot of things because the solutions the GW people found simply did not suit these people.

I wholely understand the marketing idea behind it all. God knows EVERY single online game out there is paid for every month. People like them seem to think everyone has the same kind of cash they god.

I for one do not. I like the solution as it bridges a lot of issues. Solves many of them really. Why did they give 2 slots instead of 4 for it? The answers the GW people gave was logical and livable.

Duh! If we keep getting 4 character slots all the time... what happens when they put out chapter 3 or even chapter 4?

Honestly, I am happy with the solution and complaining about it and saying you gonna go and jump ship leaves me with the same feeling when people just leave the party cuz he got -15dp.

I am playing Guild Wars because it is interesting to see a game that doesn't really make a character FARM endlessly to attain godhood. IN GW THERE IS NO SUCH THING AS GODHOOD.

So there. Complainers keep complaining because they feel like they did not get what they wanted. Big deal. Life is full of enough disappointments and problems and other sucky things as it is.

Mordakai · Mar 01, 2006, 06:22 PM // 18:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by WasAGuest

Solution: Give us 8 slots max. No matter how many expansions or add ons come out; 8 max.

Aghhh, that's actually WORSE! If each new expansion has new Professions, you'd constantly be deleting old characters to try out new profs!

I'd much rather get 2 slots and expansion then have a cap of 8!

Quote:

Originally Posted by FrogDevourer

Will the problem disappear with future expansions (when we have 8/10 slots)?Yes and no. Long-standing players will certainly find a few professions they don't want to play and the problem will be less annoying for them. However new players who buy only the latest chapter will be stuck with 4 slots and 10+ different professions. Instead of experimenting and choosing their favourite playstyle, they'll rush to the most popular.

Wait, no that's not true. A person buying a future chapter will only have access to the Core classes, plus any released with that Chapter.

People who only buy Chapter 3 are not going to have access to Cantha or the Assassin or Ritualist. (if I'm wrong about this, then Anet needs to reconsider their business model, 'cause people won't spend $100 for 2 chapters when they could get the same content in just one!)

There's another (unpopular) way to look at this. Just like Guild Wars forces you to make choices in what skills you take, Runes you equip, etc., they also force you to choose what Character you will play. There could actually be a design behind the "insanity" of limiting slots: Some classes (ie, "support" classes) will be rare in PvE. Not everyone has a Necromancer, for example. I chose to make a Me/E knowing that it was a much less popular choice in PvE, because I wanted too. I also have a W/Mo, so I understand the draw to "popular" classes. But I really had to make a hard choice for my next permanent character: Ranger or Necromancer primary (I had played and deleted both earlier). In the end, I ended up just using the slot for a Mule, and concentrated on playing my other characters (and a little PvP, too, with my empty slot!)

Now, if there were more slots, I would have a bunch of characters I probably wouldn't use. Anet "forced" me to play characters I really enjoy playing, and I deleted all the rest.

Now, if you enjoy playing all classes equally, well, then I can sympathize. But maybe, just maybe, you're in the minority.

Katari · Mar 01, 2006, 06:23 PM // 18:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stormfall

I'm going to use as an example a real-life situation that happened to me when I was (*groan*) working for McDonald's in my high school days. As you know from going into any McDonald's "restaurant", the menu is displayed in full view above the front counter for everyone to see what that store offers for sale to its customers. One day, a woman came in and ordered her meal, but she wanted onion rings instead of fries - something we didn't sell. I informed her that I couldn't give her onion rings, but if she went to the A&W across the street, she could get some there. Her response was that she was willing to pay extra to get onion rings here. That's all well and good, but it simply wasn't on the menu - and therefore, wasn't going to happen. In this instance, I don't think I was "shackling" or "forcing" the customer by any means. Nor is ANet doing the same to its customers: it clearly states what's on the menu, and if the customer doesn't like what they see, there's another business across the street. That's the reality of the market.

I'm not really sure how that is relevent. You simply didn't have onion rings. Asking McDonald's for Onion Rings would be like asking to play an Elven Bard in Guild Wars. Can't be done.

Starsky-sama · Mar 01, 2006, 06:35 PM // 18:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rayea

THERE IS NO POINT IN LINKING ACCOUNTS IF YOU DONT HAVE AcCENDED CHARATERS.
so..if, like me and admitidly, a handfull of others who already have no Chap1 accendants, you have no accendeds, theres no point in linking chapters one and two

actually. when linked all new profession(core+faction) characs made can either start (be born) in Tyria or Cantha presear. The thing you are mentioning is only for existing characters in ch.1, which means linking will give you full access to ch.2 stuff, whichever way you look at it.