Curse

Rok · Feb 28, 2006, 07:36 PM // 19:36

Bah, other thread discussing slots got closed, but I wanted to reply to this post there:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mordakai

You know, all these people complaining about not having enough slots - why did you buy Guild Wars in the first place?

Did you not know there were only 4 slots and 6 Professions?

So now you have 6 slots for 8 professions.... as has been pointed out, the ratio has gotten better, not worse.

The explanation that Anet did not want (or cannot afford) to give 4 slots per linked Chapter will suffice for me.

/signed already pre-ordered.

When I bought it I did not know there were only 4 character slots, I don't think that they advertised that you will only be able to play 4 main characters out of 6 possible. Although maybe I was not paying attention, just excited to try out a MMORPG that had no monthly charge.

I bought it because it looked like it would be a great game, and it is, just wish I could experience the whole game without having to kill off other characters to do it.

I'll wait to pre-order until I find out more about the CE, there is still plenty of time to decide.

Gli · Feb 28, 2006, 07:48 PM // 19:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by Arduinna

Look at it from my point of view: by buying Factions I will be able to transfer the 4 characters I already own from Prophecies to an entire new continent. Only for about 50 euro. As an added bonus, I recieve 2 additional character slots, just for free

That's not a point of view, that's a delusion. Whatever you're buying, you're paying for it.

Some people want to buy more slots than ANet wants to sell us. I'm one of them. Since I don't want to deal with the hassle of multiple accounts, I chose to have zero accounts, the only tolerable alternative. A mere game isn't worth putting up with any kind of inconvenience.

I'm off, looking for a publisher who'll take my money without hiding their greed behind a battalion of straw men excuses.

MelechRic · Feb 28, 2006, 07:48 PM // 19:48

ANet's Fuzzy Math:

Slots * Content = Fun

So in "Prophecies" we had:
--------------------------
4 slots * 100% content = 400% fun (though that 3rd time thru pve was not too fun to me)

In "Factions" expansion:
--------------------------
4 slots * 50% content + 4 slots * 50% content = 400% fun
OR
6 slots * 100% content = 600% fun

In the next expansion:
--------------------------
4 slots * 33.3% content + 4 slots * 33.3% content + 4 slots * 33.3% content = 400% fun
OR (now it gets harder)
merging for first expansion but not second
6 slots * 66.66% content + 4 slots * 33.3% content = 533.3% fun
OR merging them all
8 slots * 100% fun = 800% fun

Hmm... I guess that's all cool and stuff IF we get two slots with every expansion and two new professions. It's also implied that to really have fun you need to merge.

ANet, are you wondering why a lot of people don't really like this? It's like we're having to pay twice to access old content with our new Factions characters.

Nobody expected to buy the expansion and not the original and be able to access original content. However, the impression a lot of people had was that if you'd bought the original and then bought the expansion, that your original characters could go into the expansion and any new characters you made with expansion professions could go back to the old content too. No linking no slot loss.

Loviatar · Feb 28, 2006, 08:00 PM // 20:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gli

I'm off, looking for a publisher who'll take my money without hiding their greed behind a battalion of straw men excuses.

i suggest OBLIVION which i will get when it is out

i will also very happily get chapter 2 even if they supplied no new slots at all simply to enjoy a whole new games worth of content.

content to me is the exploring, sightseeing,missions, quests or whatever.

content to me is not the number of slots.

Kakumei · Feb 28, 2006, 08:43 PM // 20:43

I honestly cannot believe people are complaining to this extent.

If the number of character slots--of all things!--is going to decide yes or no whether you are going to purchase Factions, you should not be playing this game.

Is there any way I can request this thread closed? It's honestly run its course, and nothing is going to be gained by complaining/flaming back and forth.

MelechRic · Feb 28, 2006, 09:03 PM // 21:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kakumei

Is there any way I can request this thread closed? It's honestly run its course, and nothing is going to be gained by complaining/flaming back and forth.

You could just choose to not visit this thread. Then you wouldn't have to be so upset by it. Also, your equation of complaining and flaming is untrue. People may be complaining but I haven't seen anyone "flame" anyone else.

Why have a forum at all if we can't have honest and open debate about things. Just because people disagree doesn't mean they need to be silenced.

Rok · Feb 28, 2006, 09:08 PM // 21:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kakumei

I honestly cannot believe people are complaining to this extent.

If the number of character slots--of all things!--is going to decide yes or no whether you are going to purchase Factions, you should not be playing this game.

Is there any way I can request this thread closed? It's honestly run its course, and nothing is going to be gained by complaining/flaming back and forth.

And what does your post contribute to the discussion? Nothing. It is a topic people want to discuss, no flaming is necessary. There are a million accounts, lots of people have opinions. I only just commented on the slots issue, even though it has been discussed forever.

Mordakai · Feb 28, 2006, 09:35 PM // 21:35

For people questioning why there is a limitation on slots when accounts are merged, I think I have the answer (although as I'm not emplyed by Anet, I obviously don't know for sure):

I, too, wondered what's the difference between merging accounts and buying new accounts in regard to Anet's expenses?

Well, I would hypothesize that Anet has data on this, and knows that MOST people are going to merge accounts. It just makes sense, you unlock all skills, can run your Lev 20 chars from Prophecy into new areas, etc.

Therefore, Anet will save money by having to store less information from 2 characters on MOST people's accounts.

I can understand the desire of some people to make one character of each type. What I can't understand is people who apparently have been so into Guild Wars that they've managed to level up 4 characters, and equip them with such uber-items to make the idea of deleting any of them impossible, suddenly willing to essentially stop evolving in the game by refusing to buy any expansions.

Obviously, that's your choice. But I don't understand it. If you are that crazy about your characters, why wouldn't you spend the fifty bucks to give them new content, items, and possible secondaries?

On a related note, for those who don't understand why I would spend $50 to get "2 slots", the answer is, I'm not buying Factions for the slots! I'm buying Factions for new content, classes and items. The fact that I get 2 slots is a bonus to me (I only have two Characters right now I wouldn't consider deleting).

As for Anet being "greedy", um, no. Free expansions and events throughout the past year, all with no monthly fee.

The limitation on slots is a small price to pay for no monthly fee. There's plenty of MMORPGs out there with practically unlimited slots... for a price.

Mandy Memory · Feb 28, 2006, 09:51 PM // 21:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by seut

4slots chapter1 stand alone + 4slots chapter2 stand alone = 6slots combined install

full price chapter1 + full price chapter2 = 6/8 benefit
wasn't the first law of marketing: keep your EXISTING customers happy?

Wait a second.

200% of 6 > 100% of 8.
1200 is 50% better than 800.

You get 50% more stuff for combining your accts.

Im missing the 6/8ths part as having 6 complete characters is better than 8 half characters no matter how you look at it.

CKaz · Feb 28, 2006, 09:53 PM // 21:53

Man marketing people really have some of ya all thinking batty don't they.
You don't get a thing more for combining your accounts, except for being able to use what you already bought and unlocked.

Gotta give them props - a lot of you are eating it up, and they've now managed to sell you an expansion for standalone price and deliver less.

ANet marketing team ftw! Well except for the fact a bunch of us will go elsewhere.

Gli · Feb 28, 2006, 10:13 PM // 22:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mordakai

I can understand the desire of some people to make one character of each type. What I can't understand is people who apparently have been so into Guild Wars that they've managed to level up 4 characters, and euquip them with such uber-items to make the idea of deleting any of them impossible, suddenly willing to essentially stop evolving in the game by refusing to buy any expansions.

It's called quitting while you're ahead. It's been fun, and I've always realized I'd stop playing GW one day. (Surely everyone does?)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mordakai

What I can't understand is people who apparently have been so into Guild Wars that they've managed to level up 4 characters, and equip them with such uber-items to make the idea of deleting any of them impossible, suddenly willing to essentially stop evolving in the game by refusing to buy any expansions.

Obviously, that's your choice. But I don't understand it. If you are that crazy about your characters, why wouldn't you spend the fifty bucks to give them new content, items, and possible secondaries?

Refusing to delete characters has nothing to do with the equipment they carry. Most of mine use collector's stuff. It doesn't even have anything to do with time invested. The time I invested in any of them has already been rewarded with a 1:1 "time invested" vs. "time spent having fun" quotum. I don't want to delete them because it's so damn convenient to have fully skilled PvE characters handy to team up at any time, in any place, in any role, with any of my friends that wants to play with me. I'm not one of the legion of the jaded PvE haters that keep posting on threads like this one how they couldn't bear to go through PvE a second time. I enjoyed playing this game. Each and every character that I played through every ounce of content has been fun.

Ironic isn't it, how people who can't seem to care less about the content will be buying this game for the new content, yet people who can't get enough of the content won't be buying despite the new content. If there's any sign that ANet is making a big mistake here, that must be it.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mordakai

On a related note, for those who don't understand why I would spend $50 to get "2 slots", the answer is, I'm not buying Factions for the slots! I'm buying Factions for new content, classes and items. The fact that I get 2 slots is a bonus to me (I only have two Characters right now I wouldn't consider deleting).

If I were to buy Factions, I wouldn't be buying it for the slots either, though I'd easily spend $50 bucks to add nothing more than a few character slots to my account, to escape from the deficiency I've been laboring over from the start. And before anyone asks, no, I wasn't aware I'd only get 4 slots for 6 primaries when I bought GW. I bought it on a whim because it got good word of mouth.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mordakai

The limitation on slots is a small price to pay for no monthly fee. There's plenty of MMORPGs out there with practically unlimited slots... for a price.

You know... I couldn't care less about a few lousy bucks. My purchase of the original game had nothing to do with monetary concerns. I'd gladly pay a monthly fee for GW if that's what it would take to buy me what I want, or shell out some spare cash for some extra slots. The problem is, I can't. ANet isn't selling what I want: a single account with enough slots to suit my playing preferences. It just doesn't exist, I could run into a gamestore, grab an attendant and shove hundreds of euros in his face, and I still couldn't have a single account with 8 slots. This fallacy is sure to bite ANet in the ass one day, when a competitor makes a game that does all the things that ANet did right, but with a less restrictive business model. When this happens, I'll be all over them to fill their pockets with a monthly fee, and I'm sure I won't be the only one.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kakumei

You pretty much win the thread.

Yeah, if a glaring lack of insight into and consideration for the different things other people are looking for in a game is what it takes to win the thread, he's making a good run for it.

Stormfall · Feb 28, 2006, 10:16 PM // 22:16

If you compare the rate of character profession expansion to character slot expansion, we're actually not only keeping up; we're gaining. I'm satisfied with two new slots.

Fox Reeveheart · Feb 28, 2006, 10:21 PM // 22:21

I just cant wait to see the new weapon skins O_O!!!

holy crap im gonna horde like a mofo and make millions!

Im definitely gonna link? wanna know why

Because I'll IMMEDIATELY put my running warrior in cantha and look for missions or paths that can be ran.

RUN YOU TO THE END OF THE GAME 100k + RUBIES AND SAPPHIRES >.>.. AND THOSE MONSTEROUS ITEMS TOO!.....AND BEER!

Heck yeah man. I'll be livin large and in charge, and I'll take over one of those territories and be king!

OMG THINK OF ALL THE UNTAPPED FARMING TO BE DONE ._. the second I see a melee monster heavy area, im red flagging it for farming!

Age · Feb 28, 2006, 10:27 PM // 22:27

I concur with Mordakai but I am confused with this linking as I want my chapter 1 and maybe 2 to be able to go to Tyria.

TheMosesPHD · Feb 28, 2006, 10:42 PM // 22:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by get cha

Shouldnt the math be more like 8 slots for a 75% gameplay experience vs 6 slots for a 100% experience? [Long pause for you to do the math...a=(6 X 1.00) therefore a=600, b=(8 X .75) therefore b=600, therefore a=b +/- your personal preference.... Eureka!]

Now take that and divide by monthly charges [Pause again....12(months) X $10(a month)=120, 600/120=5]

And multiply how ANET makes their money with no monthly charges[(5+45)X(numbers of dwarf guild guild accounts) + (expansion pack per account)]

Which is a grand total of = all ur $$$ pwn to ANET.
Sounds like marteting in action to me.

/Rant over

You never derived where in the world you got 75% from. If Guild Wars is [1] game and Factions is another [1] game. Then [1+1 =2] and I don't think it's hard to see that [1] game is half (50%) of the total games. Now. Maybe for some strange reason you thought that Factions is sort of like 75% because you can play all 8 professions. If you thought of it like that then it'd be [4 x 75%(Factions)] + [4 x 50%(GW Core)] = 500 as opposed to [6 x 100%] = 600. And what's all this talk about them making more money from not doing monthly fees? They'll saying they're going to start releasing 2 new GW games a year, and from the looks of it they're gonna cost 40$ each. $80 a year. as opposed to $10/mo (if any game ever offered a fee that low) = $120. They are making less money per gamer, but they have more ppl playing than those games with monthly fees. Lastly. How the hell can you divide a generic concept like a"gameplay experience 100%" by dollar bills. First you'd have to convert the gameplay % into dollar bills, which makes no sense at all. Now if you ppl are going to keep making up these numbers plz try and attempt to justify where they come from. I'm reading further on and someone mentioned something about 33.3% and a bunch of other random stuff? What is going on in your minds?

Renegade ++RIP++ · Feb 28, 2006, 10:43 PM // 22:43

I payed for the content of chapter one and the access it would grant me into subsequent chapters with those chars if i ever bought the subsequent chapters.

I would be paying full price for access to chapter 2 but only with 2 new chars.

So in essence I'm paying the same amount to reduce the new content I would get. And don't bother statign that letting the 4 chars from chapter one get access to chapter 2 is new content... since i already payed for that privilidge by buying the first chapter and buying the second chapter...

It just shows how easilly influenced some people are by marketing and productmanagement fables...

It wouldn't surprise me that all these people clapping at the prospect of having 2 extra slots while linking the 2 accounts would be the same people beleiving during the middle ages the fairy tale of the earth being flat and you dropping of its edges if you went to far or the earth being the center of the universe...

In any case I drew my conclusions, and they won't get my 50 bucks for their next chapter, unless I see a possibility of buying extra slots for a reasonable amount (like 5 bucks). Or having the promiss that the CE will contain an extra charslot and that from now on all the subsequent chapters will contain as many charslots as there are new characters. Although my hope would be to see them announce to change the basenumber of charslots to the number of characters it offers in correlation with the previous chapter. (Meaning 2 charslots in chapter 2, 6 from chapter one - with the intermediate 4 for standalone use). Since if they do that, they could count on my repeptetive bussiness in stead of me being dissapointed now and not be interested anymore in any future releases.

Like somebody else stated, I prefer to quit while I'm ahead then feel like I have been gotten the shaft.

Thom · Feb 28, 2006, 10:50 PM // 22:50

Why Anet limits accounts. A lesson in business models for the narrow minded.

Arena net is a business trying to make money. This does not make the evil or mean, but it does explain why they do the things they do.

Costs are not the issue. Memory is incredibly cheap, processing is cheap, bandwidth is expensive. They could give you unlimited storage without major cost increases, so they much be limiting storage space of another reason (see later). The only costs saved are by individuals playing two accounts, since the two accounts are rarely played simultaniously.

Target audience is casual gamers. This means that if your space is sufficient for your 10 hour a week kid, odds are Anet is pleasing your core audience. More spaces hurt in the following way: account sharing (covered this earlier) and balance/fun factor. 3 PvE characters is more than enough PvE for a casual gamer. Part of what makes decisions interesting is budget constraints. There is a certain amount of diversity in the player base because of the decisions they made in starting a character. While everyone has the option of deleting a character, it slows FoM rushes if only a portion of the population have a certain primary class. Having infinite character slots would be a burden on some casual players, since some elite person will inevidably tell them to go spend 15 hours power levelling so they have the "right" class. This also keeps playing PvP players an option at higher levels (although top people play PvE characters).

Limited storage tends to lubricate trade, since it forces people to make tough decisions. Casual players quickly understand that they can't really afford to keep a mule character so you pretty much sell 95% of the stuff you find. These decisions make the game more interesting and streamlined to play. I am more willing to give stuff away knowing that holding is just costing me space for something better. You may see this as unfair or socialist, but I see this as realistic.

Hardcore Players are not screwed here. You can overcome all of those shortcomings and more by purchasing another account. You can play the game 6 times and unlock all the skills from all classes on both accounts, have a PvP slot and a mule slot. You pay 100 dollars which isn't that bad considering the number of hours you spend on the game. While transfering is annoying, it is doable. You can belong to multiple guilds...

Why Anet doesn't link accounts: If the accounts are actually seperate and can be played simultaneously, then you are asking for abuse. The more privaleges you give to linkage the more abuse you'll get. For example I could sell a new player the ability to link to my account and he could possibly get my rank, so weapons I don't use but are "elite" and my unlocked skills. It will be very difficult to find a balance that makes linking both worthwhile and "abuse secure" and it is possible the second account will either be gimped or not sigificantly assisted.

Why Anet won't sell individual slots. Three reasons I see: 1) Cost of maintaining another customer service/sales department, the business model leaves most of this to the retail side. 2)The benefits of scarce resources stated above... giving everyone $10 slots means all semi serious players have to fork out at least 30 more dollars. This creates more disparity between wealthy and hardcore gamers and weekend warriors. 3) Anet could lose money due to the fact it will sell fewer copies and more individual accounts. While the financial gain may be positive, the current market has created a high cost option (2 accounts) and a low cost option which allows more money to pulled form serious gamers. Account sharing is also an issue here... why by little timmy an account when he can play an extra slot on his dad's account and save 30 bucks.

Tekish · Feb 28, 2006, 11:04 PM // 23:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mordakai

I, too, wondered what's the difference between merging accounts and buying new accounts in regard to Anet's expenses?

Well, I would hypothesize that Anet has data on this, and knows that MOST people are going to merge accounts. It just makes sense, you unlock all skills, can run your Lev 20 chars from Prophecy into new areas, etc.

Therefore, Anet will save money by having to store less information from 2 characters on MOST people's accounts.

Unfortunately, I have to disagree.

The reality is, 2 extra character slots is nothing in terms of storage space in a database system of this magnitude. Massive storage is so ridiculously cheap nowadays that setting up a few terabytes of hard drive space is like pennies to a company like ArenaNet. The real costs are in bandwidth, not storage - which is why gameplay is instanced and why they have intentionally designed a streaming system to maximize bandwidth efficiency. You should read one of the interviews the co-founder of ArenaNet - he goes into detail about all of this.

The bottom line is, this decision has nothing to do with them try to save money. And that's what makes the reasoning behind this slot limitation even more difficult to understand.

EDIT: Blah @ Thom for touching on some of this while I was too busy typing it all up

Mordakai · Feb 28, 2006, 11:04 PM // 23:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thom

Hardcore Players are not screwed here. You can overcome all of those shortcomings and more by purchasing another account. You can play the game 6 times and unlock all the skills from all classes on both accounts, have a PvP slot and a mule slot. You pay 100 dollars which isn't that bad considering the number of hours you spend on the game. While transfering is annoying, it is doable. You can belong to multiple guilds...

Why Anet doesn't link accounts: If the accounts are actually seperate and can be played simultaneously, then you are asking for abuse. The more privaleges you give to linkage the more abuse you'll get. For example I could sell a new player the ability to link to my account and he could possibly get my rank, so weapons I don't use but are "elite" and my unlocked skills

YOU win the thread. This makes more sense than my hypothesis.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gli

You know... I couldn't care less about a few lousy bucks. My purchase of the original game had nothing to do with monetary concerns. I'd gladly pay a monthly fee for GW if that's what it would take to buy me what I want, or shell out some spare cash for some extra slots. The problem is, I can't. ANet isn't selling what I want: a single account with enough slots to suit my playing preferences. It just doesn't exist, I could run into a gamestore, grab an attendant and shove hundreds of euros in his face, and I still couldn't have a single account with 8 slots. This fallacy is sure to bite ANet in the ass one day, when a competitor makes a game that does all the things that ANet did right, but with a less restrictive business model. When this happens, I'll be all over them to fill their pockets with a monthly fee, and I'm sure I won't be the only one.

You may not be the only one, but I would guess you'd be in the minority.

The main reason Guild Wars is so successful is the lack of monthly fees. It's the main selling point in a market saturated with MMORPGs.

rollntider · Feb 28, 2006, 11:38 PM // 23:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gli

It's called quitting while you're ahead. It's been fun, and I've always realized I'd stop playing GW one day. (Surely everyone does?)

You know... I couldn't care less about a few lousy bucks. My purchase of the original game had nothing to do with monetary concerns. I'd gladly pay a monthly fee for GW if that's what it would take to buy me what I want, or shell out some spare cash for some extra slots. The problem is, I can't. ANet isn't selling what I want: a single account with enough slots to suit my playing preferences. It just doesn't exist, I could run into a gamestore, grab an attendant and shove hundreds of euros in his face, and I still couldn't have a single account with 8 slots. This fallacy is sure to bite ANet in the ass one day, when a competitor makes a game that does all the things that ANet did right, but with a less restrictive business model. When this happens, I'll be all over them to fill their pockets with a monthly fee, and I'm sure I won't be the only one.

Yeah, if a glaring lack of insight into and consideration for the different things other people are looking for in a game is what it takes to win the thread, he's making a good run for it.

Dude buy a second account
MMORPG monthly fees $15 x 12= 180 + cost of game 50 bucks = 230 for one years content.
GW= 39.99 or 49.99 depending on where you purchase. So far I have paid 80 for 2 accounts (only using 6 slots) the ones that are complaining saying they would gladly pay a monthly fee and money is no object are complaining they don't want to purchase extra account. They do have extra slots available, run down to Wal mart EB and get another account.