Curse

Loviatar · Mar 17, 2006, 06:12 PM // 18:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by Orbberius

Here's a reward for you: the most-poorly-thought-out-statement-ever prize.

my reward is having fun playing.

i dont need them to pay me to play it.

practicing all the time just to have a chance of winning would be work and not fun for me at all

Peewee · Mar 17, 2006, 06:30 PM // 18:30

essentially my opinion runs as follows:

Guild Wars is a Free PvP based game. It is not a free version of more PvE orientated games such as WoW, becuase there is simply no contest. If you enjoy grinding levels and farming, then to be quite frank there are better games out there than GW for that kind of thing. IMO the campaign of GW really only serves to meaten the game out a bit, and act as a tutorial for the PvP world. nothing will change in factions, in fact it seems that this will be further heightened with the introduction of missions entirely devoted to the development of advanced group dynamic skills, skills which are normally learnt ever so slowly in the pvp arenas to the frustration of more experienced PvP players (i am talking to you Paladins)

Thats said, it is not my place to tell you, or anyone, how they should enjoy GW, but i cant see a reward for PvE players really being easy to put into practise. What would they reward? That 100k will be won by players who literally train for it, who spend hours and hours working on tactics with their team-mates, possible sacrificing girl/boyfriends and jobs along the way, just to have a shot at the grand prize. These are not casual players, these people, especially in the case of Korea, actually pay for their meals with this type of thing. It seems strange to reward the PvE players for what essentially and no offence meant, is a unskillful (relatively) but perhaps time consuming past part of the game. PvE players already get a reward over PvP players, and that is ectos, shards, and eventually FoW armour. The fact that the PvP elite get a reward is not unbalanced if you knew what they go through in order to get to that level of play. I doubt that anybody in the PvE world goes to that extreme by a god wide margin.

dreamhunk · Mar 17, 2006, 06:36 PM // 18:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by Peewee

essentially my opinion runs as follows:

Guild Wars is a Free PvP based game. It is not a free version of more PvE orientated games such as WoW, becuase there is simply no contest. If you enjoy grinding levels and farming, then to be quite frank there are better games out there than GW for that kind of thing. IMO the campaign of GW really only serves to meaten the game out a bit, and act as a tutorial for the PvP world. nothing will change in factions, in fact it seems that this will be further heightened with the introduction of missions entirely devoted to the development of advanced group dynamic skills, skills which are normally learnt ever so slowly in the pvp arenas to the frustration of more experienced PvP players (i am talking to you Paladins)

Thats said, it is not my place to tell you, or anyone, how they should enjoy GW, but i cant see a reward for PvE players really being easy to put into practise. What would they reward? That 100k will be won by players who literally train for it, who spend hours and hours working on tactics with their team-mates, possible sacrificing girl/boyfriends and jobs along the way, just to have a shot at the grand prize. These are not casual players, these people, especially in the case of Korea, actually pay for their meals with this type of thing. It seems strange to reward the PvE players for what essentially and no offence meant, is a unskillful (relatively) but perhaps time consuming past part of the game. PvE players already get a reward over PvP players, and that is ectos, shards, and eventually FoW armour. The fact that the PvP elite get a reward is not unbalanced if you knew what they go through in order to get to that level of play. I doubt that anybody in the PvE world goes to that extreme by a god wide margin.

I think you better write anet and tell them to take rpg off the box and website . If you are saying it is pvp game!

Loviatar · Mar 17, 2006, 07:27 PM // 19:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by Peewee

IMO the campaign of GW really only serves to meaten the game out a bit, and act as a tutorial for the PvP world. .

i would like to point out that very qualified pvp players have said that to be successful in pvp you have to UNLEARN bad things learned in pve. (so it is not intended as a pvp tut)

that comes from good pvp players not me (i pve only)

and for a pvp game it only took them almost a year to get a basic pvp training area put into the game? (the pvp weekend)

Ken Dei · Mar 17, 2006, 11:19 PM // 23:19

I am:

1. Offended that people are so ignorantly obsessed that this is a PvP oriented game. It's not.
2. Offended that people are under the impression that PvE doesn't require any skill. Where you think most PvPers LEARNED to adapt tactics?
3. Offended that people have choosen to be unimaginative and unable to think of a decent competitative means be which to hold a PvE contest, equal in stature to PvP.
4. Offended that there is an impression that PvEers know nothing about PvP. We know far more about PvP and the people who play it then we wish to. And if they flames are any indication, they are out in full force in this thred.

Now speaking: Personally, I'd love to see a competition for PvE, with a cash reward.

But frankly, after reading this thread for 3-4 pages. Now I'd just like the opportunity to show up some of these offense, derisive, arrogent PvPers.

PvE 5% of the game? Bite me.

Mustache Mayhem · Mar 17, 2006, 11:23 PM // 23:23

I'm offended too! damn u guys

Mithie · Mar 17, 2006, 11:25 PM // 23:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ken Dei

I am:

1. Offended that people are so ignorantly obsessed that this is a PvP oriented game. It's not.

I'm offended that you're offended about me offending that guy who was offending PvP players.

Quote:

2. Offended that people are under the impression that PvE doesn't require any skill. Where you think most PvPers LEARNED to adapt tactics?

PvE Requires PLENTY of skill. For example, gear tanking and AI exploitation. I TOTALLY respect the skill needed to hold a gear and stand there, not moving. I think that's an awesome talent to have, and self-proclaimed top PvE players deserve lots of repect for having this talent.

Quote:

4. Offended that there is an impression that PvEers know nothing about PvP. We know far more about PvP and the people who play it then we wish to. And if they flames are any indication, they are out in full force in this thred.

Of course PvE players know more about PvP than PvPers who play it every day! It makes total sense! It's just like how I know more about Chess than Kasparov! Even though he plays it every day! In fact, I know so much about Chess, I don't even play it now. I would probably just steamroll Kasparov or Fischer, those newbs. Not really worth my time.

Quote:

But frankly, after reading this thread for 3-4 pages. Now I'd just like the opportunity to show up some of these offense, derisive, arrogent PvPers.

'd be happy to oblige! (If that floats your boat).

Tellyawhat. You get your guild, I get my guild, and we have a showdown sometime, k? Make sure your Wammo brings the gear, though.

frickett · Mar 17, 2006, 11:37 PM // 23:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chase the Sky

PvP players DO PvE- but most of us consider doing the same quests/missions/farming over and over is boring. Human opponents are much more challenging and fighting them creates a more rewarding game.

Yet you face the same number of opponents every match. They are all human (or maybe some pets too), There are no bosses, no drops, no real sense of accomplishment.

I have started playing some pvp recently, and I will admit that I am not very good yet. However I expect to get better. As I get better, I hope to do more killing and less dying. As I get better I hope I Come to enjoy this portion of the game more...

BuddyLeeX · Mar 18, 2006, 12:11 AM // 00:11

There is absolutely nothing in PvE that is relatively hard to do at all. I can solo FoW, I can solo UW, I can do any mission with henchies, and I can farm just about anything else anyone else can farm. I can run droks, southern shiverpeaks, the desert, and ascalon/kryta. Why can I do all these things? Because it is simple and easy, and PvE is static.

I have mastered PvE with almost 1000 hours into PvE, now I have almost 1400 hours and that span of almost 400 hours I have dedicated toward PvP and have dropped PvE totally. Why? Because PvE no longer challenged me, and I find PvP much more rewarding and fun than PvE. Not to mention I have all the money, items, weapons, and fow armor that I ever want and need.

Not to mention there are a lot of really talented people to play with and meet in PvP.

Ensign · Mar 18, 2006, 12:22 AM // 00:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by dreamhunk

I think you better write anet and tell them to take rpg off the box and website . If you are saying it is pvp game!

There's a difference between 'it's a PvP game' and 'it's not a grind game'. Guild Wars is an RPG in a traditional sense, you have some sort of loose story plus some wilderness to explore, some progression, and a pretty distinct end. It's the kind of RPG I grew up on in fact, played online with other people.

Then there's this other kind of 'RPG' out there, that's basically a bigger and better version of dungeon hack. Basically you don't worry about a storyline at all and focus the game entirely upon level and item acquisition. This is the gametype rejuvenated by Diablo, and popularized as a massive online game by Everquest.

Guild Wars is clearly of the first type. Instead of focusing on the volume of content, it focuses more on quality (feel free to debate their success). It isn't designed to have massive replay value. It's an online version of Baldur's Gate and other traditional RPGs, not Diablo or Dungeon Hack. It's actually funny because itemquest has stripped virtually all RPG elements out of itself, yet if you're not itemquest now people are upset that they aren't getting what they paid for.

Not every game is going to be grind driven. If it hasn't been made clear by now, Guild Wars is not going to be a grind driven game and if that's what you want you're going to have to look elsewhere. It's doing different things, trying different goals with various amounts of success. It's still an RPG though, in every (bastardized) sense of the term.
Peace,
-CxE

PtiteDiablesse · Mar 18, 2006, 01:37 AM // 01:37

Actually, I think it's a bit of a double-standard. PVP players complaining about certain items that PVE players have access to and PVP players don't, has led to... what? Said items either being nerfed or included for PVP use. There doesn't have to be complete equality between the PVP or PVE players, especially since it's possible for people to go out and get those items with a PVE character they're building with the intent to PVP with it.

Since PVP gets an opportunity at a large prize tournament, why shouldn't PVE get the same opportunity? There's been consistent attempts to make sure PVE players don't get any sort of advantage over PVP players, and yet.. and yet, they have no opportunity for this sort competition.

And those who say thatGW is a PVP-centric game... if that's so, why bother putting a PVE component in the game at all? Because the game is meant for both PVP and PVE players. And if that's so, then why should PVP players be the only ones who have this big prize to strive for, whereas the PVE players don't? It seems to me, that if a game purports to cater to both the PVP and PVE crowds, it should open the same doors to both crowds, rather than catering to one at the expense of the other.

Loviatar · Mar 18, 2006, 02:05 AM // 02:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by PtiteDiablesse

Since PVP gets an opportunity at a large prize tournament, why shouldn't PVE get the same opportunity? .

first item is that i am completely PVE so dont bother saying i am a pvp elitest fanboi.

they have these pvp events for high stakes prizes to attract attention to the game.

they go for what will be watched and get attention.

there is no audience market for any type of pve event.

tell me exactly what pve event you have in mind that could be played under live fast non boring time frames for the big payoff

Lord Iowerth · Mar 18, 2006, 02:21 AM // 02:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by Loviatar

tell me exactly what pve event you have in mind that could be played under live fast non boring time frames for the big payoff

Quoted for truth.

What is there going to be for PvE? Who can run to Drok's the fastest? Who can farm the most gold in an hour? Who has "teh most leet" armor/weapons?

The reward is for the competitive side of the game (aka PvP). Prizes are always given for something competitive in real life ... think about it. Car races, olympic sports, contests ... these are all competitive.

PvE is cooperative. Do you get some kind of "real life" reward from playing, say, a Playstation game? The comradery and sense of personal accomplishment are your rewards for PvE play, just as they are in any other game.

Also, I am not a PvP fanboi either, 95% of my time is PvE, so don't throw that rock at me

ghostlyranger · Mar 18, 2006, 03:58 AM // 03:58

do u see ppl killing bot in Counter-Strike during WCG / ESWC?
do u see ppl killing the Computer in Warcraft during WCG/ESWC?
do u see ppl racing against the Computer in NFS during WCG/ESWC.
............
and the list goes on.

Metanoia · Mar 18, 2006, 08:52 AM // 08:52

This discussion has gone beyond stupid. At the end of the day, whether you consider yourself a PvE or PvP player, you're all playing the same game. Since it already has a competitive element, what would be the point of creating another?

News Flash: Unless you thought they would just give out money to anyone who can clear an area of AI opponents in a set amount of time, which would be more of a test than anything, it's always going to be a "competition". The second you're competiting against other people, directly or not, it stops being PvE and becomes another form of PvP.

ElderAtronach · Mar 18, 2006, 05:43 PM // 17:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by frickett

There are no bosses

Guild Lord/Ghostly Hero

Quote:

no drops

Celestial Sigils, and rare drops from winning Halls

Quote:

no real sense of accomplishment.

Guild rating/Fame. Not to mention a chance at a $100,000 prize pool at the World Championships

art_ · Mar 18, 2006, 05:50 PM // 17:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mithie

I'm offended that you're offended about me offending that guy who was offending PvP players.

I find that offensive.

EternalTempest · Mar 18, 2006, 07:32 PM // 19:32

I could see Anet maybe giving out stuff for say Alliance (not faciton) (who holds x the longest over x span) but the rewards would proable be more in game then real $.

I'm PvE 99% and I don't see a reason to have cash reward, PvP playoff's make sense. PvP can be serious competion where pve does require skill (no question there) but it's more adapting to the monsters / ai for that area / zone specific goal.

If you look at Half-Life 2 and Counterstrike Source, which make more sense to have a real money cash vaule reward if you held a contest?

WasAGuest · Mar 18, 2006, 07:58 PM // 19:58

I'm a PvE'er only. Tried PvP, I was so bored. That said, those that PvP play for the competition of it, at least that's what I'm told. So, it seems to me a virtual sport if you will, which allows for monetary rewards.
PvE'ers, like myself, mostly play just for the fun of it (fun being relative in their tastes). There really isn't a way to tag PvE with a way to win, without pitting the PvE'ers into a PvP type game style.
Factions is doing this, PvE'ers will be playing vs other players for score or points to aid in the moving of borders for city control. I don't think the PvEers will be able to kill each other, but it's still competing against them; so it is PvP as PvP means Player vs Player.
Perhaps with that in place, there will be a way to reward PvEers with some cold hard cash... maybe.

Those with a dry since of humor like me might get a snicker at this thought. After reading this thread and how hostile most PvE vs PvP players are towards the other game style, does Anet really want to bring the two closer? hehe Talk about volitile enviroment... whew

Sectus · Mar 18, 2006, 08:33 PM // 20:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by BuddyLeeX

There is absolutely nothing in PvE that is relatively hard to do at all. I can solo FoW, I can solo UW, I can do any mission with henchies, and I can farm just about anything else anyone else can farm. I can run droks, southern shiverpeaks, the desert, and ascalon/kryta. Why can I do all these things? Because it is simple and easy, and PvE is static.

I don't think the ability to steal and duplicate another person's build to do a 2% of FoW or UW counts as anything. In my opinion, that's AI explotation, and not how you're supposed to play the game. If you want a challenge, try to beat all of FoW or UW with a pug team. Or if you're with a guild try to beat UW or FoW with a team of 5 people.

You say you're able to beat every mission with henchies? Are you able to get the bonus in Dunes of Despair with henchies? Are you able to complete tombs with henchies? Those are pve challenges which are not at all easy.

You have to remember that farming and running isn't how the game were designed to be played, and you can't determine the challenge of the game by doing those things.