Curse

Minus Sign · Mar 20, 2006, 06:57 AM // 06:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vermilion Okeanos

You answered it on your own.

All the dagger have to do is make sure the sword user is dumb enough to start a fight in that close range. (an assassin have to be dumb enough to let the sword user know that he is armed) Yes, those are indeed tactic. A sword should beat any dagger in "fair" fight.

Are you denying that sword would lose in an extremely close drawing contest? If no, then there are no flaw in those fact.

In my opinion, you are picking on that for picking. Or simply, you despise me

I was using it as a segway into explaining one way in which the Sai, or dagger is a useful (ie practical) combat weapon. Though, since you press the point, I will elaborate. You say the knife user need only make sure that the sword user is "dumb enough" to allow the knife user tactial advantage.

How does that make the opposing fighters "equally skilled"? Pressing an attack when your opponent has tactical advantage is in no way "skilled". When they have advantage, you retreat, even if that means running like a "coward". real world, dead is dead, so real world fighters would try to achieve tactial advantage before pressing their own attack.

To your last statement: if you take personal offense to someone offering a counterview to "pen and paper" tactical discussions, I humbly suggest you speak with your Teacher/Sensei about this matter and meditate on his response.

In any case, the point in made; dual weild daggers are both practical in combat and have historical relevence.

Vermilion Okeanos · Mar 20, 2006, 07:11 AM // 07:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by Minus Sign

I was using it as a segway into explaining one way in which the Sai, or dagger is a useful (ie practical) combat weapon.

If you take personal offense to someone offering a counterview to "pen and paper" tactical discussions, I humbly suggest you speak with your Teacher/Sensei about this matter and meditate on his response.

That didnt make sense. How can you be offering me a counterview when I already offered both "sword/blade>dagger" and "if a sword and dagger start a fight in extremely close range, dagger will almost always win"? Since what you wrote is what I had already wrote, but you called my logic flawed, then what the hell is it if it is not personal?

Maybe we have some misunderstading, but that is how it was seemed to me.

Also, if your word can hurt anyone simply, you need to find a teacher to teach you how to use words better.

Minus Sign · Mar 20, 2006, 08:02 AM // 08:02

Are you actually attacking my english? I misspelled one word; segway, which should have read segue. Read your own posts and see if you can say the same. My english is not the issue, your ego is.

Vermilion Okeanos · Mar 20, 2006, 08:38 AM // 08:38

What the hell? Where in my post did i state that you spelled something wrong. Point it out to me. If the sentence somehow do act as an insult in your spelling, I will indeed apologise. As to the "if your word can hurt anyone simply, you need to find a teacher to teach you how to use words better." That had nothing to do with spelling, it have everything to do with using the "right" word or as in "How to talk". That was my answer to your "if you take personal offense to someone offering a counterview.... I humbly suggest you speak with your Teacher/Sensei..."

However, now that you avoid the previous question. I will ask again.

How are you offering counterview to me when I had wrote both view? I have no problem being a flawed man, but I do not believe how I can be flawed when we agree on the SAME THING! You simply use the word flaw in the worst place.

I believe we have culture issue mixed in between.

I can drop this issue anytime, just tell me. I do not believe we hate each other in any way, but we somehow got on each other's edge without knowing. Perhaps by different culture.

Edit: weird, somehow I can't do copy and paste for some weird reason.

strcpy · Mar 20, 2006, 10:00 AM // 10:00

Real combat (as much as you can call real) has been about group tactics for thousands upon thousands of years. Most of the issues above aren't combat but dueling - which is a different beast altogether and generally run by a set of rules. It doesn't resemble anything we see or know about in anyway. The vast vast majority of our ideas come from hollywood - and you should be able to guess how accurate that is going to be. but, since we want fun, not real, I'm pretty much OK with that.

Any of the above ideas loose to a phalanx of soldiers (or whatever your state called your organised group of soldiers) VERY quickly - see the roman conquest of most of the known world and has been around since 1000+ BC. That type of battle is very boring to watch - those little blocks of wood pushed around a tabletop most accurately represents that. You didn't do individual combat, if you did you lost VERY quickly (some peoples tried to do that, but didn't live very long).

As such, it's really hard to guage what would be realistic or not. Realistic would quickly turn into each combat operation forming squads with overlapping shields and short swords or pikes (again, see the Roman tactics used for thousands of years). Since this game doesn't support real life it's all pretty much fair game. If you want more real life type of war/conflict there are quite a few well done real time strategies. If you want realisitc just think how boring it would be to play an individual soldier in one of those groups - that's realistic.

Even the real one-on-one type scenarios are boring - usually days to months of doing nothing with seconds of fighting (even in lands where one-on-one dueling was common average fights lasted < 20 seconds on average - nothing like what we imagine, most of it was trying to get position on your enemy and no edge-to-edge contact of your weapons). Realistic is not fun in a video game. There was talk above of "ninja" - while the description of weapon usage is accurate, real life wasn't hollywood. If you were in enough danger like a game you wouldn't make it past pre-searing, in fact you would be lucky to make it to level two or three.

Better to focus on fun. The dual wielding may look wierd (i'll hold off judgement until this weekend) and thus be non-fun. If you want real, it will be VERY boring (to my knowledge no ultra-realistic game has ever done well, ones that follow "hollywood" real do well though). It's like arguing who would win in real life, Batman or Superman. While that may be interesting to a segment of the population and have some bearing to "which would win in reality" (and OK to argue, I've done so in the past. Just don't think that Batman or Superman are in anyway whatsoever realistic) it's kinda moot point and not really resolvable. Though as long as that is kept in mind - wear it out

Minus Sign · Mar 20, 2006, 10:22 AM // 10:22

Very true strcpy and thanks for bringing the discussion back to one of the matters at hand. I tried Assassin on the first PvP weekend; the only thing I found weird looking was how the cape dangled to one side. I liked the weps and most of the skill animations

Vermilion Okeanos · Mar 20, 2006, 10:52 AM // 10:52

Although there are more input I can add onto strcpy's point. I will save myself and the readers from an overly long typing that isn't exactly what this thread was about.

Basically, that is correct. Real world fight is very boring. Anyone watch UFC or something similar? All they do is use ground work to fight, so you end up watching two men hugging each other on the floor. You know why wrestling is fake? To make it exciting so people would watch.

The Roman had gladiators who fight to the death. Perhaps that is the only real enjoyable fight people would enjoy.

If Guild Wars had to be realistic... everyone would be riding a horse and use a bow or polearm. Mongols anyone?

One last question, how do I pronounce strcpy's name?

Mosch · Mar 20, 2006, 10:55 AM // 10:55

How can anything in Guild Wars be historically correct when you go out to fight large dog-like creatures with an unhealthy obsession for fire and wield a shield that spontaneously makes you more healthy?

As far as I know there has never been a time when combat with two daggers was really used. Come to think of it, the warriors are using hammers, axes and swords, when actually the polearm was the weapon of choice for most foot soldiers. Nobody complained about that

Fighting with two weapons was more or less common in duels though (think of florentine or the Niten Ichiryū technique), but then again duels were not as common as hollywood may want to have us believe.

Leaving historical accuracy aside, I like the attack animations. It's over-the-top and nice to watch, other than the "let's prod him with the axe" attack that makes me cringe

Minus Sign · Mar 20, 2006, 11:53 AM // 11:53

Actually, the Visigoths used warhammers and battleaxes extensively in their campaigns. Swords were often reserved for noblemen in later european wars (to the point where they were illegal for commoners to own), but if you reach back to the Legeonaires of Rome discussed before, the standard weapons loadout was pike, shield and a short bronze sword. Also; again, the Sai, which was used widely in Feudal Japan by Ninjas, whom Assassins are losely modelled after.

But on the axes.../signed. Since so few GW axes have a spike (Tazits and another skin I think) they shoudl drop that animation. The thing to remember about them is that they were 2-handed weapons, same as warhammers.

in fact, that would rock! 2-handed battle axes with damage on par with a warhammer. Maybe some 2-handed swords too, like the claymore. One point made previously was about weapon diversity. If Assassins get more goodies, shouldn't everyone

...nobodies goanna say anything about the cape?

Vermilion Okeanos · Mar 20, 2006, 12:07 PM // 12:07

lol, I completely forgot about

*Stab* with an axe.

The cape, I didn't have that much problem with it as I avoid doing things that would make it crazy O.o But now I come to think about it, I did complain about cape way back when they go over character's body. I eventually grew out of that thou, came to expect it in every game.

Someone go to suggestion forum and post about axe animation