Curse

Willis13 · Feb 25, 2006, 12:55 AM // 00:55

Today I took the time to play with the damage formula a little bit and I compiled some data pertaining to melee damage (Axe damage and skills in particular) I made some pretty graphs which show some interesting things that you may not have known prior to today. I add this onto the damage page over at GuildWiki direct link is here (scroll to the botton to see the data I added):

http://guildwiki.org/wiki/Damage

Phrozenflame · Feb 25, 2006, 01:00 AM // 01:00

I'm still reading it but I must say thats alot of hardwork you put in there, I can just thank you for it and foreever I will thank you.

strcpy · Feb 25, 2006, 07:04 AM // 07:04

It would be interesting to see damage over time also.

For instance, you show that cleave does less damage than penetrating blow, though not by much. But at 4 adrenaline vs 5 who does more damage in the long run (I suspect cleave - but in combination of other skills the one adrenaline may not make much of a deal until really long periods of time)?

The sad thing, given your data, is that executioners strike is 8 adrenaline and penetrating blow is 5 - which, by your data, makes ES really crappy.

Did you compare real world data to the graphs you produced (or were they produced from real world data - they appear to be graphs of your damage equations)? If so do they take into account critical hits?

Savio · Feb 25, 2006, 09:40 AM // 09:40

A few notes:

The +damage from Executioner's Strike and the other attack skills ignore armor. Armor penetration actually does very little for Warriors, especially as base armor penetration (i.e. Strength and PB) doesn't stack.

Technically, weapon attributes can only go up to 17.

I don't get why 85 armor is used. 60 AL is best because it's typical squishy armor and attacks do 100% damage vs 60 AL, which simplifies damage calculations.

Eviscerate > Cleave.

Fenix Swiftblade · Feb 25, 2006, 03:35 PM // 15:35

I know Strength doesn't stack with the Armor Penetration from attacks like Penetrating Blow, but I thought that it did stack with things like Judge's Insight, or piercing damage. Does it?

Sekkira · Feb 25, 2006, 03:39 PM // 15:39

Strength doesn't work currently unfortunately.

fenix · Feb 25, 2006, 03:42 PM // 15:42

That is quite helpful, although in practice, it seems there is a much greater difference between Executioner's Strike and Penetrating Blow than the graphs show. There is normally (at 13 in Axe Mastery) around 20-30 damage more from ES, when attacking squishy targets, whereas the difference is around 5-10 when attacking tanks.

zoozoc · Feb 25, 2006, 05:15 PM // 17:15

very interesting, thanks for putting in all the hard work.

Willis13 · Feb 25, 2006, 06:33 PM // 18:33

Thanks for the comments guys, the idea of a graph with respect to time seemed interesting so I added two more graphs with time on the x axis. I don't have time to write the captions at the moments as I have to go to work but they are interesting to look at none the less.

Stabber · Feb 25, 2006, 09:15 PM // 21:15

Note: the article itself was not authored but the OP. His contribution is limited to the graphs at the bottom. Most of the credit for the article belongs to Pan Sola.

Just thought this should be cleared up, as people seem to be giving the OP credit for the entire article.

/long time guildwiki contributor

FireFox · Feb 25, 2006, 10:04 PM // 22:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stabber

Note: the article itself was not authored but the OP. His contribution is limited to the graphs at the bottom. Most of the credit for the article belongs to Pan Sola.

Just thought this should be cleared up, as people seem to be giving the OP credit for the entire article.

/long time guildwiki contributor

QFT

Ensign · Feb 25, 2006, 10:46 PM // 22:46

I would like to see how you are calculating the damage on Penetrating Attack, Cleave, and Executioner's Strike as I am unable to reproduce your graphs or your conclusions.

Peace,
-CxE

Willis13 · Feb 26, 2006, 03:41 AM // 03:41

28 * 2^([5x + (2.167x + 8) - 85]/40) = ExStrike

CyberNigma · Feb 26, 2006, 03:53 AM // 03:53

That's some nice info. I had just created a small document full of numbers I crunched (for sword since its avg is in the middle) and different attribute assignments. I'll try to find a way to post it.

I did calculations based against the toughest opponents so that I could check out Strength. That is, I made my calculations against an opponent with AL 100 (collector's/glads 80 + 20 vs physical as warriors in PvP would probably be) with and without a Shield (AL +16).

I did find out that ( I didn't realize Str didn't work as someone in the thread mentioned) that Str 13/Swd14 did around 33% more dmg to 100+16 and 24% more damage to 100 (no shield) than Str 0/Swd14.

I also realized the tradeoff for health-reducing runes was not worth it based on those calculations (around 2%-3% increase over the best non-hp reducing method. Again, this didn't take into account skills, just regular straight-forward damage.

If it's true that Strength is broken (haven't fully tested it out in the game, only on paper as per the GuildWiki calculations and another either on this forum or GWOnline), then that throws everything off, of course. I also didn't realize the AP doesn't stack, which means the Wiki is wrong on that point, which really sucks as well.

Of course even if Strength is working/gets fixed if its not, then it only really benefits against higher AL opponents anyways.

twicky_kid · Feb 26, 2006, 05:44 AM // 05:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by CyberNigma

Of course even if Strength is working/gets fixed if its not, then it only really benefits against higher AL opponents anyways.

That is the point of str to begin with. You boost your weapon to do more dmg vs soft targets. You boost your str so you do more dmg vs high armor (wars).

That way 2 wars don't run into a stalemate because they can't dish out any dmg to each other.

From what I've noticed penetration as a whole doesn't work at all no matter what skill it is. Judge's addes 20% but there is no difference in dmg. I can do more dmg with regular attacks than PB majority of the time.

Sekkira · Feb 26, 2006, 05:54 AM // 05:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by twicky_kid

From what I've noticed penetration as a whole doesn't work at all no matter what skill it is. Judge's addes 20% but there is no difference in dmg. I can do more dmg with regular attacks than PB majority of the time.

No, just tested it, AP from JI works fine.

Savio · Feb 26, 2006, 06:02 AM // 06:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by Willis13

28 * 2^([5x + (2.167x + 8) - 85]/40) = ExStrike

The +damage from Exe and other skills is DShift, not in the AE.

Sekkira · Feb 26, 2006, 07:04 AM // 07:04

I've also discovered that the +15% while (x) works on the final weapon damage dealt and not the base damage of the weapon.

At Axe mastery at 12, Executioners does +34 damage which applied to the base damage is 62 at max. If I apply the +15% to the base damage, it should do up to 32.2(base + 15%) + 34(executioners) 66.2 damage (73.45 damage if strength was working).However, if I apply the +15% to the total damage of 28(base) + 34(executioners) 62, it should do up to 71.3 (79.11 damage if strength was working).

This is probably quite off topic, but it's been bugging me for a while and nowhere I have looked has axtually tested this.

http://cc.chaotic.co.nz/pics/gwdmg.jpg screenshot for further measure.

Spenser_For_Hire · Feb 26, 2006, 07:12 AM // 07:12

when numbers come into picture and formulas start being introduced i lose interest, that article would of been 100x better if they just down to "brass tacks" so to speak

Ensign · Feb 26, 2006, 07:34 AM // 07:34

Ah, that'd do it, you have a funky exponent. Pull that out and tack it onto the end as damage and it'll be accurate.

The numbers you should be getting shows Executioner's to outperform Penetrating attack for attack by a pretty wide margin, while Cleave and Penetrating are pretty close - with Penetrating dealing more damage on a critical.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sekkira

I've also discovered that the +15% while (x) works on the final weapon damage dealt and not the base damage of the weapon.

Er, what now? I've tested that extensively and have no idea what you're talking about. The added damage from attack skills is a very clear damage shift.

Peace,
-CxE