Curse

Renegade ++RIP++ · Mar 15, 2006, 09:25 PM // 21:25

Ay like I said, that is what they are trying to balance. But a smart move, not really I would have taken it on a tad different and made more money.

by:

1) offering prophecies with 4 slots out of 6 profs (as they did) and the CE with 1 additional sole pvp slot
2) offer factions with 2 slots and 1 pvp slot since 2 character professions as well used standalone or as an expansion.
3) offer a faction CE that upgrades the 'pvp slot' to a normal slot rendering it into 3 slots
4) offer extra charslots at 8$ per piece

They dropped the ball at offering standalone 4 while expansionwise only 2. People don't like to see obvious losses, since that draws out complaints as evidenced by the many threads on htis topic.

And mordokai if you are a hardcore player, then you will not pay month per month but packagewise (like 1 big amount every x months). For example for WoW:a six-month plan at $12.99 per month. meaning +- 156$. Add the normal price of expansions and guess what costs are similar, while wow offers a tad more content. So far for this cheap alternative... [SOURCE]http://wowvault.ign.com/faq/index.php?category=1#1_0_6[/SOURCE]

And eugaet, the chapterwise setup and their comparison with the magic cards made me consider merging future chapters an evidency when buying GW-P seeing that in these options having the extra options is exactly the reason why you bought all these chapters. Therefore all this talk about giving me 2 times the content then if i had not linked is so marketingdriven that I contineously find it appaling that any sane person can actually support it... Why would you buy chapter 2 from the magic cardgame if not to use them together and be more flexible... for the pretty pictures they offer? I don't think so... The reason why they made chapter 2 standalone (or why some cards in the magic cardgame are standalone) is to give the first time buyers the option of hopping in at any time not to use all their cards they have gathered seperately... since that would just be foolish...

heavy metal rules · Mar 15, 2006, 09:33 PM // 21:33

man, little did i think this thread would even reach 4 pages, but also getting a math lesson included, just pure guineus. in any of that math was pi used.<insert scarsam>..man i need to put some more perfume on that dead pig...another beer....cheers

Mordakai · Mar 15, 2006, 09:35 PM // 21:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by Renegade ++RIP++

Ay like I said, that is what they are trying to balance. But a smart move, not really I would have taken it on a tad different and made more money.

by:

1) offering prophecies with 4 slots out of 6 profs (as they did) and the CE with 1 additional sole pvp slot
2) offer factions with 2 slots and 1 pvp slot since 2 character professions as well used standalone or as an expansion.
3) offer a faction CE that upgrades the 'pvp slot' to a normal slot rendering it into 3 slots
4) offer extra charslots at 8$ per piece

Can't argue with that! Anet, read this ^^^^^^!

Quote:

Why would you buy chapter 2 from the magic cardgame if not to use them together and be more flexible... for the pretty pictures they offer? I don't think so... The reason why they made chapter 2 standalone (or why some cards in the magic cardgame are standalone) is to give the first time buyers the option of hopping in at any time not to use all their cards they have gathered seperately... since that would just be foolish...

Agree with this, too. In fact, those arguing that somehow not linking an account is even an option, look at the "merging account" thread and count how many aren't merging. Last I looked, it was ZER0.

People who already own GW are either going to link, or not buy the Chapter at all. As Renegade says, buying an expansion as a stand alone makes no sense. (although the MTG analogy breaks down with this comparison, b/c Magic limits it's Official Tournaments to the most recent expansion, thus forcing serious competitors to buy complete sets of every edition. At least, that's what they used to do. Now, if only someone would compare the price of MTG vs Guild Wars...)

Agild Greenfinger · Mar 15, 2006, 09:37 PM // 21:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by striderkaaru

you paid $50 to get 4 characters in tyria. factions is $50 for 4 in cantha. by merging, i have paid $100 to get 6 into both. i will be getting more than what i have paid for.

so you buy two 400GB hardisks in a store costing 50$ each for a total of 100$
and not only do you expect that when you fire up your machine there is now only 600GB, but somehow you've actually managed to convince yourself that you get more for your money simply because you get to transfer data?

lol, sounds to me like somebody needs to go back to grade school and retake math...

and Eugate can join you aswell...it's funny how you keep failing to add in the equation of 8x100% > 6x100% .... and no we're not setting the content value of factions to zero, we set it to that of Prophecies, which translated is 50$

like I've said before, merging the chapters was touted as a feature from the get go with Prophecies, the feature should be considered included in the price you pay for Prophecies and whatever chapter you choose to merge with. it was never mentioned anywhere that this feature would come with diminishing returns, beyond that of paying full price for what is essentially an expansion for return buyers. as such expecting people to suffer further diminishing returns buy paying for the feature in cost of character slots(content), is essentially adding a hidden fee, that Anet so proudly said they'd never introduce into the game. good work Anet at contradicting yourself!

Eugaet · Mar 15, 2006, 09:42 PM // 21:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mordakai

Sure, sure. But, value for us, or value for Anet (or value for both?)

Value for us. I mean, I think my merged slots could be up to twice (2X) as valuable as an unmerged slots...that's assuming Factions offers content equal to Prophecies.

ANet has decided to make the price of a merged slot less than 2X the price of an unmerged account. The value of a merged slot will still be 2X, but the price to the consumer for a merged slot is 1.33X.

6*1.33 = 8*1.00

Everyone gets the same value for their money.

Mordakai · Mar 15, 2006, 09:43 PM // 21:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by Agild Greenfinger

it was never mentioned anywhere that this feature would come with diminishing returns, beyond that of paying full price for what is essentially an expansion for return buyers. as such expecting people to suffer further diminishing returns buy paying for the feature in cost of character slots(content), is essentially adding a hidden fee, that Anet so proudly said they'd never introduce into the game. good work Anet at contradicting yourself!

Just so we're clear, you expected 6 professions and 4 slots for every chapter of Guild Wars?

Agild Greenfinger · Mar 15, 2006, 09:48 PM // 21:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mordakai

Just so we're clear, you expected 6 professions and 4 slots for every chapter of Guild Wars?

no.

and I don't see how you get that from anything I said.

Mordakai · Mar 15, 2006, 09:55 PM // 21:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by Agild Greenfinger

no.

and I don't see how you get that from anything I said.

Well, what did you mean by "it was never mentioned anywhere that this feature would come with diminishing returns, beyond that of paying full price for what is essentially an expansion for return buyers."

What is "diminishing returns?" Character slots alone? Number of professions? Number of quests? Number of skills?

I mean, we all knew we wouldn't be getting 6 professions with each Chapter. Why did anyone assume we would be getting 4 new slots? I mean, really, is it that big a shock?

And yes, I agree Anet should somehow make it where people can get a slot for each Profession (+1 extra for PvP), but I never thought that Anet would include 4 slots with each Chapter... by Chapter 10 that would be 40 slots!

What if Factions had NO new Professions, but 2 more slots. Would that make anyone happy?

Eugaet · Mar 15, 2006, 09:59 PM // 21:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by Agild Greenfinger

so you buy two 400GB hardisks in a store costing 50$ each for a total of 100$ and not only do you expect that when you fire up your machine there is now only 600GB, but somehow you've actually managed to convince yourself that you get more for your money simply because you get to transfer data?

You're providing an example of comparing oranges to oranges (identical hard drives) and trying to apply it to a comparison of apples to oranges (unmerged slots and merged slots). Your hard drive example is to say that an unmerged slot, which only offers access to 50% of the content, is equal in value to a merged slot, which offers access to 100% of the content.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Agild Greenfinger

and Eugate can join you aswell...it's funny how you keep failing to add in the equation of 8x100% > 6x100% .... and no we're not setting the content value of factions to zero, we set it to that of Prophecies, which translated is 50$

I've taken that into account, thank you very much. 8 merged accounts is of course more valuable than 6 merged accounts. But is 6 merged accounts more valuable than 8 unmerged accounts? You seem to think not...your arguments state that you think a merged account is equal in value to an unmerged account...a slot that offers twice the content is worth the same as one that offers only half that.

It's funny how you keep leaving out all the variables in the equation.

Agild Greenfinger · Mar 15, 2006, 10:02 PM // 22:02

diminishing returns obviously reffers to character slots(in this case), since that is what we get less of. duh.

if we'd get less of anything else I'd be reffering to that.

Mordakai · Mar 15, 2006, 10:07 PM // 22:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by Agild Greenfinger

diminishing returns obviously reffers to character slots(in this case), since that is what we get less of. duh.

if we'd get less of anything else I'd be reffering to that.

That's my point. We get less new professions - how come no one is bitching about that?

And did you expect 4 slots with each linked Chapter?

Renegade ++RIP++ · Mar 15, 2006, 10:10 PM // 22:10

Quote:

although the MTG analogy breaks down with this comparison, b/c Magic limits it's Official Tournaments to the most recent expansion, thus forcing serious competitors to buy complete sets of every edition. At least, that's what they used to do. Now, if only someone would compare the price of MTG vs Guild Wars...)

I haven't heard them stating anything about a new prophecy GWWC, only about a faction one. And I'm pretty darned sure that every hardcore pvp-er that wants to be competetive will merge his accounts to stay competetive in the GWWC. So so far for this trendbreak

Quote:

That's my point. We get less new professions - how come no one is bitching about that?

expasnions always offer less professions, we are used to that. And if you install it standalone you are getting 8 'new' professions. But characterslots is in most cases not less.

Mordakai · Mar 15, 2006, 10:16 PM // 22:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by Renegade ++RIP++

I haven't heard them stating anything about a new prophecy GWWC, only about a faction one. And I'm pretty darned sure that every hardcore pvp-er that wants to be competetive will merge his accounts to stay comùpetetive. So so far for this trendbreak

Oh, yeah, but MTG is the opposite: Once a new set comes out, the old set is worthless (in the official tourney's).

Of course, GW won't be like that. Which is just one reason why GW is better than Magic, although not really a fair comparison.

Buoyancy · Mar 15, 2006, 10:20 PM // 22:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by Eugaet

You're providing an example of comparing oranges to oranges (identical hard drives) and trying to apply it to a comparison of apples to oranges (unmerged slots and merged slots). Your hard drive example is to say that an unmerged slot, which only offers access to 50% of the content, is equal in value to a merged slot, which offers access to 100% of the content.

The merged account is the default state, since Factions is only a standalone product in Anet's marketing.

Buoyancy · Mar 15, 2006, 10:22 PM // 22:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mordakai

And did you expect 4 slots with each linked Chapter?

I expect the number of slots added with each chapter to be sufficient so that we have one available slot per primary profession, with an additional slot for a PVP character.

Xenrath · Mar 15, 2006, 10:24 PM // 22:24

This is duplicating stuff in the "slots confirmed" thread.. but anyway, it seems more and more to me this is at least partly a marketing ploy, to "encourage" people to go out and buy multiple copies of the game (and then going on to buy even more copies of Factions and other expansions.. er standalones.. to link together) - Server costs etc have really nothing to do with it imho.

Agild Greenfinger · Mar 15, 2006, 10:25 PM // 22:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by Eugaet

1)You're providing an example of comparing oranges to oranges (identical hard drives) and trying to apply it to a comparison of apples to oranges (unmerged slots and merged slots). Your hard drive example is to say that an unmerged slot, which only offers access to 50% of the content, is equal in value to a merged slot, which offers access to 100% of the content.

2)I've taken that into account, thank you very much. 8 merged accounts is of course more valuable than 6 merged accounts. But is 6 merged accounts more valuable than 8 unmerged accounts? You seem to think not...your arguments state that you think a merged account is equal in value to an unmerged account...a slot that offers twice the content is worth the same as one that offers only half that.

It's funny how you keep leaving out all the variables in the equation.

1) no I'm not. I never said the harddisks were identical. one runs at 2500rpm the other runs at 2800rpm. their storage capacity however is the same individually and in total whether or not I choose to do any data transfer. I do not expect a loss in storage capacity nor do I expect a rise in price, because it's a given that the feature of data transfer is there. no sane business operates with marketting such as "buy 2 for the price of 3!" on the contrary if any change to the 1:1 ratio it'll be "buy 2 for the price of 1!"

2) of course 6 merged accounts is more valuable than 8 unmerged, I never said it wasn't...it is because it's the better of two evils. you keep bringing it up without realising that we're not operating from the offset of 6x100% > 8x50% ... we're operating from the offset that 8x100% > 6x100% > 8x50% don't keep the 800% out of the equation!

Xenrath · Mar 15, 2006, 10:29 PM // 22:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mordakai

What if Factions had NO new Professions, but 2 more slots. Would that make anyone happy?

If it was low cost and added some new content (maps/missions etc) then sure why not? I finally get to play at least 3 classes I've not currently been able to play primary through the game...

Gargle Blaster · Mar 15, 2006, 11:13 PM // 23:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by Eugaet

Petition for more slots, by all means, but please, please, use a better argument than 4+4=8, which ignores the value of content. It's really making the community look bad.

Sorry, if you think questioning ArenaNet makes the community look bad. I think it makes the community stronger.

arguments you might have missed for more slots:

1. There should be 1 slot for every profession -- to explore all of the content in the game we should not be forced to delete previous charecters. a quote from ArenaNet: "There are over thirty different profession combinations and hundreds of unique skills that you can combine to create an endless variety of character builds."

2. "I want more" (like you said) -- this is extremly valid as there is clear value for what i pay for. If i dont think its of value i wont buy it.

3. I am not the only one who wants more.

4. Customers should not be penilized for being returning customers. Fact is, as it stands, you only get 2 more slots for comming back to guild wars. BTW thats 2 less than 4. total of 6.

5. PvP -- one more slot here please or thats alot more content missing.

6. The burden of proof -- There is no reason not to have more slots. This is important! there is no justification to have less than 9 merged slots(with fractions). Now don't get into fuzy math on this point its about the burden of ArenaNet to prove there is need for less.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Eugaet

That's the problem with the argument that 4+4=8. It ignores the key variable of content by setting it equal to zero. What you are, in effect, saying is that you don't think the content in Factions has any value.

Because you're comparing apples and oranges. 6 unmerged is in fact greater than 8 unmerged. It's only fuzzy to you because you think, unmerged slot = merged slot, which is not true.

I did not say that Factions has 0 value. your confusing the issue. The math is not complicated 8 slots unlinked - 6 linked that is 2 less slots. please no more carebare math about percents of content b/c there is no way(this is where yall use that crazy math) to qantify the value of a slot merged or un-merged. a slot is a slot - this part you can quantify.

To say 6 merged is greater than 8 unmerged is a judgment that we make as consumers. The judgment may not be so easy to make. As producers ArenaNet has done a poor job to explain why they are limiting slots. There is not a bit of math needed.

Spiderguard · Mar 15, 2006, 11:17 PM // 23:17

GW1 - access 1 world & 6 chars/4 slots=$50+

GW2 - access 1 world & 8 chars/4 slots =$50+

Gw1+2 - access to 2 worlds, but 8 chars/6 slots = $100+

Regardless, is this Anet's attempt to solve the minor problem with account sharing? I personally believe this is the sole reason for the delimma.