Curse

Gargle Blaster · Mar 15, 2006, 05:43 PM // 17:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by rollntider

and again if you dont merge accounts you dont get full content.
Regardless of your views we only get 6 slots merged or 4 if you don't merge.

no. You will still get all the content if you don't merge your accounts... you just won't be able to play the content from both chapters with all of your characters. --and by the way you get 8 slots if you choose not to merge not 4...

BellyFlop · Mar 15, 2006, 05:51 PM // 17:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by striderkaaru
i say keep this thread open, as it is a different topic...this is addressing the issue of why you "lose" two slots when you merge.

As well i dont want to go over and over about the same issue but according to Anet you are not loosing any slots by merging. I cant say i agree with them but thats another story and I see this thread talking about the same that as been said on the other one.

Just my Opinion.

crimsonfilms · Mar 15, 2006, 05:56 PM // 17:56

No you get 8 slots for 2 different content if not merged. 6 slots for two different content if merged.

Its BS. ANet knows it. They want money - plain and simple. All this sugar coating and trying to apply logic to it is silly.

There is no increased cost for them because the same amount of infustructure needed if you DID NOT MERGE, thus 8 slots, would be the same if you merge, 6 slots.

So stop trying to justify it. The only logical answer is - they want you to buy more. Second accounts has a been a very, if unexepected, source of revenue. Where every serious GvG player has one (to smurf) and where every hardcore PvPer wants it (to store/farm).

They just want to milk the cow.

Zehnchu · Mar 15, 2006, 06:03 PM // 18:03

Apparently the horse hasn’t been beaten enough.

Mordakai · Mar 15, 2006, 06:05 PM // 18:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by crimsonfilms

So stop trying to justify it. The only logical answer is - they want you to buy more. Second accounts has a been a very, if unexepected, source of revenue. Where every serious GvG player has one (to smurf) and where every hardcore PvPer wants it (to store/farm).

Sigh. I don't want two accounts... so obviously, not everyone wants one.

Hardcore players who were unhappy with the slots offered in Prophecy already have 2 accounts... I hardly see how limiting slots in Factions is going to make Anet that much extra money.

Now, if they start selling slots...

EDIT: Oh, and what's wrong with Anet making money?

crimsonfilms · Mar 15, 2006, 06:13 PM // 18:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mordakai

Sigh. I don't want two accounts... so obviously, not everyone wants one.
Hardcore players who were unhappy with the slots offered in Prophecy already have 2 accounts... I hardly see how limiting slots in Factions is going to make Anet that much extra money.

It promotes the idea of people buying 2 upgrades of Faction instead of just one.

No you don't want one, it does not mean it is not a popular and profitable occurence in GW community.

Those unhappy people from GW:P are now more unhappy I bet.

Quote:

Now, if they start selling slots...

EDIT: Oh, and what's wrong with Anet making money?

Absolutely NOTHING. But Gaile and others trying to make the math fit to make it logical for Joe Schmo GW supporter is what is wrong.

Mordakai · Mar 15, 2006, 06:25 PM // 18:25

Possible Reasons for 2 slots:

For some unknown reason, Linked accounts do cost more for Anet to run.

Precedent: If Factions offers 4 slots merged, Chapter 3 will also have to offer 4 slots. And on, and on. That will eventually cost Anet something. The current set up is 4 slots with first chapter, 2 with any linked after that, is there to prevent this occurance.

Design Decision: Anet just doesn't want people to have a lot of slots for no particular reason (least likely).

Greed: Anet wants to force hardcore players to buy multiple accounts. Actually, I'm not even sure this is a bad thing: Since there are no monthly fees, Anet figures it will make some extra money off people who really, really want more slots, at any price. Nothing wrong with that (except, as Crimson says, they should be up front about it.)

I'll end this the same way the other thread ended: I wish someone from Anet would join in and explain their decision with something other than "creative math." If for no other reason than to stop threads like these
(3rd one on the topic?).

Gli · Mar 15, 2006, 06:30 PM // 18:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by striderkaaru

put it this way. each campaign currently makes up half of the total game. with prophecies, you have 4 characters with access to half of the game (4 X 0.5 = 2). when you buy factions as a stand-alone, you get 4 more characters with access to only the second half of the game (4 x 0.5 = 2). So, separately, you get the equivalent of 4 full accesses.

however, when you merge, you get 6 slots with access to the ENTIRE game (6 x 1 = 6). you get 6 full accesses.

It's not a matter solely of content, it's a matter of options.

Gaile has given us the Grand Character Slot Unification Equation that you're quoting, but it makes no sense, and I will show you why:

4 * 50% + 4 * 50% = 400% (Okay...)
6 * 100% = 600% (Right...)

But now look at this:

5 * 100% = 500% (Uhm... still better than 400%

)

Yet, many people felt that 1 extra slot on a joined account was really not enough. How can they feel this way if the math shows that it's a good deal? Read on.

And the kicker:

4 * 100% = 400% (Awww... no way!

)

This last application of ANet math tells us that no extra slots on a joined account is actually just as good as not joining and having 4 new slots on a stand-alone account. Different, but apparently just as good, all 400% accounted for. I bet that few people would accept this as the gospel that many people have taken the 6 * 100% nonsense for, yet it's a logical deduction from that particular mathematical approach.

Apparently, there's something more at work than percentages of content. I'll call this something 'Options'. Character slots add options and this has been completely ignored in ANet's groundbreaking 'marketing math'. They've succesfully abused the maths to obfuscate the real issue.

striderkaaru · Mar 15, 2006, 06:33 PM // 18:33

wow, are you people daft? seriously.

first of all, although this issue is addressed in the other thread, the majority of the posts there are debating why we should get 8 versus 6, assuming you are already merging. the main topic here is whether you lose anything by merging. keep the 6 vs 8 debate in the other thread.

and honestly, what part of the math do you not understand? if you choose not to merge, you get 4 characters in tyria and 4 in cantha, separately. if you merge, you get 6 character in tyria and 6 in cantha. please look BEYOND just the number of slots and look at what you can actually use those slots for. it isn't 4 + 4 = 8.

and if you really don't want to merge because you want the "8" slots, be my guest. but let's say your warrior is in your prophecies account. when your guild is doing an elite mission to control territory and they desperately need an extra warrior, guess what. you CAN'T do sh*t because your warrior is stuck in tyria. no matter what you say, the logic is there. 6 characters with FULL access is better than 8 with only HALF access.

Katari · Mar 15, 2006, 06:33 PM // 18:33

Well, if Factions was an expansion, it would make sense. But it's not. It's a full priced game, and that is what bugs me. Of course you get more content if you merge, of course you get better acess to it, but shouldn't that be a given? A loss of two char slots is the price you pay for having acess to both chapters? I donno, I kinda thought the price I pay for that full acess was the full-game-price that I pay for factions.

If I buy Factions, I will certainly merge, not much of a question there, but I still feel a little let down.

Eugaet · Mar 15, 2006, 06:36 PM // 18:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zehnchu

Apparently the horse hasn’t been beaten enough.

Apparently so.

Merged accounts and unmerged accounts are not equal in value. That is why you either get 8 unmerged accounts or 6 merged. You are paying for unmerged accounts when you buy GW:P or GW:F.

The argument that 4+4=8, while mathematically true, is flawed reasoning when applied to merging GW:P and GW:F. Everyone knows that a merged account has access to the contents of both P & F and an unmerged account has access to just one or the other.

So why does everyone think a merged account is of equal value to an unmerged account?

I am in support of more slots. I'm just trying to point out to everyone how illogical their main argument is. I haven't seen any argument yet for the addition of slots that, logically, is any better than "because I want them". 4+4=8 holds no water because you are leaving out all the variables (the extra content) to promote your side of the issue.

Is the extra content worth nothing?

This thread should be merged with the 'Six slots confirmed' thread.

striderkaaru · Mar 15, 2006, 06:36 PM // 18:36

just to clarify, in light of what gli posted, this thread is not meant to be whether or not anet is justified in only giving us 2 extra slots. that belongs in the other thread.

like eugaet posted, i would like more character slots as well. but that debate is already raging in the other thread. i hope that what eugaet has posted, along with what i have posted, will make you all realize that you get MORE if you merge.

if you want to bring up the issue of options, then i will be giving my scenario again:
"let's say your warrior is in your prophecies account. when your guild is doing an elite mission to control territory and they desperately need an extra warrior, guess what. you CAN'T do sh*t because your warrior is stuck in tyria."

you may have more options, but you can't do much with them.

Gli · Mar 15, 2006, 06:38 PM // 18:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by striderkaaru

and honestly, what part of the math do you not understand?

Please prefer to my previous post in this thread.

Quote:

Originally Posted by striderkaaru

and if you really don't want to merge because you want the "8" slots, be my guest. but let's say your warrior is in your prophecies account. when your guild is doing an elite mission to control territory and they desperately need an extra warrior, guess what. you CAN'T do sh*t because your warrior is stuck in tyria. no matter what you say, the logic is there. 6 characters with FULL access is better than 8 with only HALF access.

There's a third option: Don't buy.

Quote:

Originally Posted by striderkaaru

just to clarify, in light of what gli posted, this thread is not meant to be whether or not anet is justified in only giving us 2 extra slots. that belongs in the other thread.

You brought up the math in both your last posts, I jumped to shoot it down with reasonable argumentation. I'd been looking for an opportunity, thanks.

Mordakai · Mar 15, 2006, 06:41 PM // 18:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by striderkaaru

the main topic here is whether you lose anything by merging.

I thought the main topic was why 2 slots for merging, 4 for unlinked?

Whether you "lose" anything content wise or not, is irrelevent. The question is: Why would Anet limit the slots for linking? (for possible answers, see my above post)

Quote:

Originally Posted by katari

Well, if Factions was an expansion, it would make sense. But it's not. It's a full priced game, and that is what bugs me. Of course you get more content if you merge, of course you get better acess to it, but shouldn't that be a given? A loss of two char slots is the price you pay for having acess to both chapters? I donno, I kinda thought the price I pay for that full acess was the full-game-price that I pay for factions.

Katari, you and have have gone back and forth on this many times.

For me, here's the difference:

Factions (stand alone) 4 slots, 8 professions
Factions (when linked, not inc. Chapt 1) 2 new slots, 2 new prof.

As you see, you're getting less professions AND less slots. Maybe original GW owners should get a discount, but since there's no monthly fees, I doubt that makes much business sense. On a related note, does anyone know what the retail price of the WoW expansion is?

crimsonfilms · Mar 15, 2006, 06:43 PM // 18:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by striderkaaru

and honestly, what part of the math do you not understand? if you choose not to merge, you get 4 characters in tyria and 4 in cantha, separately. if you merge, you get 6 character in tyria and 6 in cantha.

No its 6 for the entire game not 6 per continent.

Quote:

and if you really don't want to merge because you want the "8" slots, be my guest. but let's say your warrior is in your prophecies account. when your guild is doing an elite mission to control territory and they desperately need an extra warrior, guess what. you CAN'T do sh*t because your warrior is stuck in tyria. no matter what you say, the logic is there. 6 characters with FULL access is better than 8 with only HALF access.

Moot. The issue is what you paid for and what you get.
And the limitation of having 50% access is imposed by ANet for no reason just to make you merge.
Its circular reasoning.

striderkaaru · Mar 15, 2006, 06:45 PM // 18:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gli

You brought up the math in both your last posts, I jumped to shoot it down with reasonable argumentation. I'd been looking for an opportunity, thanks.

sorry to say, but you shot nothing down. even you admitted that 600% > 400%.

Mordakai · Mar 15, 2006, 06:45 PM // 18:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gli

There's a third option: Don't buy.

And that's ultimately what it all boils down to. If the amount of slots is reason enough not to buy the game, that settles it.

Anet has obviously made up their mind. Now it's time to make ours.

striderkaaru: Give up the math argument.

8 slots x 100% content = 800%. And that's what some people want. Telling them to settle for 600% is not going to work...

Gli · Mar 15, 2006, 06:46 PM // 18:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by striderkaaru

if you want to bring up the issue of options, then i will be giving my scenario again:
"let's say your warrior is in your prophecies account. when your guild is doing an elite mission to control territory and they desperately need an extra warrior, guess what. you CAN'T do sh*t because your warrior is stuck in tyria."

you may have more options, but you can't do much with them.

My dilemma runs differently:

"My guild needs some warriors for an elite PvE mission, but no one has any because they all decided at some point that they didn't want to spend one of their limited amount of slots to a class they don't think is as interesting as the characters they already had. They certainly wouldn't want to delete one of the characters they know they do enjoy to make one."

striderkaaru · Mar 15, 2006, 06:47 PM // 18:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by crimsonfilms

Moot. The issue is what you paid for and what you get.

you paid $50 to get 4 characters in tyria. factions is $50 for 4 in cantha. by merging, i have paid $100 to get 6 into both. i will be getting more than what i have paid for.

Gli · Mar 15, 2006, 06:48 PM // 18:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by striderkaaru

sorry to say, but you shot nothing down. even you admitted that 600% > 400%.

I really don't know what to say... you apparently didn't understand a word of my post beyond what ANet already told you.