Curse

Sanji · Oct 29, 2005, 04:52 PM // 16:52

Honestly, Guild Wars did a lot better that anticipated due to two things.

1) People who thought it was a free MMORPG. It isn't.
2) The recent plague of jaded gamers that hate everything but still buy at least one game monthly due to mistaking nostalgia as a sign that they still like to play video games. They don't.

While I can sympathize for them spending their 50 dollars on a game that's clearly not suited for them, I am grateful for giving Anet money to further develop and maintain Guild Wars. You see, I hate those types of people, so I don't mind Guild Wars becoming a niche game where the people are playing Guild Wars for what it actually is, not what they thought it should be.

Loviatar · Oct 29, 2005, 04:59 PM // 16:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by BellyFlop

What diff does that make?
It still not a better game to keep people happy, and like i said its not like another other game like FF, WoW etc... dint do the same thing.

a few people are still failing to realize that GUILDWARS is not supposed to be wow/eq lite and fee free.

they still think GW is a failure because it doesnt have enough content to keep them and all their friend entranced until the next CHAPTER NOT EXPANSION comes out.

as for the trading they said it would be after observer mode not tomorrow.

as for whineing about sigil prices what happened to all the pvp people who said it was won for the glory and it was just simply fun and the rewards were extra.

25k for having fun doing what you would do for free.

GREEDY GREEDY

if it is work and you are farming sigels as pvp WORK that is your problem.

Navaros · Oct 29, 2005, 05:10 PM // 17:10

Yes, winning Sigils is work.

In fact according to the game, it is winning the ultimate battle.

Winning the ultimate battle should be worth well-over 25k.

And winning on the same 10 or so maps hundreds/thousands of times over and over again is not exactly fun in and of itself, no. For Guild Wars PVP to be fun in and of itself barring any rewards, then it would need a lot more variety of modes/environments/maps than what is currently there.

asdar · Oct 29, 2005, 05:12 PM // 17:12

I think it might die but not from the lack of rewards or anything.

The PvE side is just so simple and if anything Sorrows has led me to believe that they don't know how to make challenging content. I'm embarrassed to listen to people who say they have a hard time with any mission. There's no PvE community except within a guild and there are no places to gather that are fun.

The PvP side is closed to newcomers, at least 90% closed. If you go to Tombs with anything other than the popular build you probably won't be able to get a group within an hour, and then you'll lose badly because the only groups that allow non-specific players are never good.

The only thing that offers a sign of hope for new players in PvP is random arenas. Every thing else is impossible to find a group and repetitive when you do find one. Even if I have a decent chance to win I don't want to sit around for hours, let alone face the odds of winning with a pick up group.

GvG is fun but it's closed as well. People that join guilds don't necessarily get to play GvG and if you do get to play it's not always that exciting except at the top.

HoH which used to be the highlight of PvP is an indication of the trouble GW is going to have soon in my opinion.

The surest sign and one I always felt was an indication of GW strength was the number of districts on Friday Night. Well, there were 5 districts in Tombs on Friday night and they weren't all full. Ascalon City and Lions Arch were way low as well.

I'm not saying that the game won't make it to chapter two just because of all the casual people that like the game. I don't think Chapter two will sell well, I know I won't buy it in any form similar to this one. I think it's on the way out and I don't think they have the resolve to make the changes necessary to fix it.

Dax · Oct 29, 2005, 05:25 PM // 17:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sanji

Honestly, Guild Wars did a lot better that anticipated due to two things.

1) People who thought it was a free MMORPG. It isn't.
2) The recent plague of jaded gamers that hate everything but still buy at least one game monthly due to mistaking nostalgia as a sign that they still like to play video games. They don't.

While I can sympathize for them spending their 50 dollars on a game that's clearly not suited for them, I am grateful for giving Anet money to further develop and maintain Guild Wars. You see, I hate those types of people, so I don't mind Guild Wars becoming a niche game where the people are playing Guild Wars for what it actually is, not what they thought it should be.

I'm not sure they did better than anticipated.... it seemed to me at the time to be very much anticipated before it came out. Rather I'm surprised more people didn't play.

I think the people who are not happy are a mix of people who are either uber casual (who don't normally play MMO's), or hardcore 8 hour a day players who felt it wasn't enough. There are alot of people who buy games on a regular basis to keep up with the current scene and trends. I think you comment about that is way off.

Yes it sucks to buy a game and it not be what you want. While there are many things about GW that I don't like, but I think I got my money's worth.
I don't think Anet is doing us a service by maintaining it, they have to in order to sell the next chapter.

The true cool thing about GW though is it is something you can play from time to time and if you want to take a week/month off you don't feel like you're losing out. That's a pretty good concept.

Loviatar · Oct 29, 2005, 05:26 PM // 17:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by Navaros

Yes, winning Sigils is work.

Winning the ultimate battle should be worth well-over 25k.

And winning on the same 10 or so maps hundreds/thousands of times over and over again is not exactly fun in and of itself, no. .

then the pvp people have been lying through their teeth all this time saying due to the constantly changing opponents of all different mindsets and strategys it is always new fresh and challenging.

in theit words it is a constant variable unlike stuffy same all the time pve.

the PVP hotshots said that not me.

please address flames on that part to PVP players not me.

Kool Pajamas · Oct 29, 2005, 05:32 PM // 17:32

I dont see Guild Wars dying anytime soon. Everytime I play missions in PvE there are at least a few people in the group that have never done it before. And it seems to be even more lately. Last week I was doing Aurura Glade and it was only me and one other that had done it before. Yesterday in Iron Mines it was pretty much the same thing, and again in Thunderhead.

Loviatar · Oct 29, 2005, 05:46 PM // 17:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dax

The true cool thing about GW though is it is something you can play from time to time and if you want to take a week/month off you don't feel like you're losing out. That's a pretty good concept.

that is exactly why this has a very good chance of being successful.

you can put it aside (as i will do for OBLIVION) at level 20 and come back later and not be level 20 in a level 50 world.

also according to an earlier post by Alex (NCsoft) the chapters after chapter 2 are scheduled for about twice a year roughly 6 months apart.

each having a full games worth of content NOT just an expansion

asdar · Oct 29, 2005, 05:59 PM // 17:59

The big question I'd have is whether the content will just be the same old thing again.

I don't want people to take my criticism the wrong way, I easily got my money's worth. I do feel that A-Net dropped the ball big time.

The thing that frustrates me is that they had such a good start. The combat system is great in my opinion. I love the action/reaction possible in this game and how every class and every combo can bring so much to the fight. This is the best two class system I've seen to date.

What I see is them taking a really great combat mechanic and a really great graphically rewarding game and then doing nothing to unite the two.

Every single zone is exactly alike. They all wind up and down and around in nice 2-D zigzags with four skins. There are no places that are cool, even given the 2-D restriction they could have buildings with multiple floors and trap doors, slippery floors that didn't slow but instead made it impossible to stop. There is such a variety of places they could have added but they didn't.

The only cool thing in the whole game is the dropped seeds for the bridges and they simplified that so much that my 8 year old son could figure it out and then all that's left is a pretty graphic with no challenge.

What a waste of some very good programming. They HAD the system too, the PvP and the PvE and they blew it in my opinion due to a lack of foresight.

Sanji · Oct 29, 2005, 06:14 PM // 18:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dax

I think the people who are not happy are a mix of people who are either uber casual (who don't normally play MMO's), or hardcore 8 hour a day players who felt it wasn't enough. There are alot of people who buy games on a regular basis to keep up with the current scene and trends. I think you comment about that is way off.

Well, the casual players are mostly the "trendy" gamers that buy disposable games after disposable game. I suppose I should have mentioned them trendy gramers in my original post, seperate from the rash of Jaded gamers that never seem to like anything released this decade but never stop buying video games.

Anyhow, I don't really mind the passing of trendy, jaded, or hardcore players from Guild Wars. Trendy gamers are leaving because they have short attention spans and deep pockets, jaded gamers freaking hate everything but posting how much they hate video games now a days on forums, and hardcore players...well.

Guild Wars isn't a hardcore game. I can't find myself feeling sorry for someone who honestly expected a game without a monthly fee to have MMORPG content. Hell, all Diablo 2 had was replaying the game over and over with phat loots.

I just can't don't see Guild Wars up and dying because of people who often quit video games are quitting Guild Wars. I also wouldn't underestimate how much a good expansion pack can do to breathe life into a game.

Tactical-Dillusions · Oct 29, 2005, 06:19 PM // 18:19

In my opinion, the only bad things that ArenaNet have done are the introduction of keys/chests and the reduction of drops from monsters.
The killing of monsters/drops are what keeps alot of PvE players playing the game.
There is no point in killing something if your only drop is the same old rubbish.

I think Anet could win alot of people if PvE was more MMORPG orientated and PvP had more diversity and large-scale continuous battles, but that's just my opinion and a discussion of such can be found using the search function

.

One thing i was pleased to hear is that they are trying to get away from the linear style gameplay in chapter two. I haven't seen anyone who doesn't want the areas to be opened up and this one change alone will be a drastic improvement.
This weekend is putting Anet on a nice learning curve too. The masses of players filling the districts will inspire Anet to do similar things in the future.

Answer to the thread question - NOPE, certainly not.

asdar · Oct 29, 2005, 06:27 PM // 18:27

Look around a bit, zones are dying.

I was a big supporter and called out when people were saying the game was dying earlier. I said, "Just look at Ascalon City, There are plenty of districts there," but that's no longer the case.

Every zone is dying, the newcomers aren't coming into the game and they're certainly not converting to PvP any longer. There were 5 districts in HoH on a Friday night. That's not a good sign.

Will it die tomorrow? No for sure not, but it's dying right before our eyes.

People on other boards think it's a joke and where you used to see pages of threads on these boards in a day you're very likely to see threads last for days.

There are still people playing EQ but there's no doubt that's a dead game. GW might last for a while ignoring the worms crawling out of it's eye sockets but it's dead.

xxreaper008 · Oct 29, 2005, 06:44 PM // 18:44

Ya, but don't you think there killing guildwars with all of these nerfs?

Dax · Oct 29, 2005, 06:46 PM // 18:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sanji

Well, the casual players are mostly the "trendy" gamers that buy disposable games after disposable game. I suppose I should have mentioned them trendy gramers in my original post, seperate from the rash of Jaded gamers that never seem to like anything released this decade but never stop buying video games.

@ 50 bucks I don't think people consider them disposable yet. I'm not sure you're trying to give a negative aspect to this or not. I respect peoples opinions a helluva lot more when they've actually played many a game and can explain what makes a game good or bad to them. If someone comes along and says "GW sucks" and all they've played is WoW or EQ then thier opinion is not worth a whole lot. Granted there are also alot of people who don't like anything.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sanji

I just can't don't see Guild Wars up and dying because of people who often quit video games are quitting Guild Wars. I also wouldn't underestimate how much a good expansion pack can do to breathe life into a game.

Once again I don't think that's a fair accessment. GW, although not a tradtional MMO, is open ended. To say someone who checks out GW and quits, because they quit other games isn't fair. There may be people like that, but I don't think it's the majority.

People, whether you do agree with them or not, do have valid reasons not to like this game. It's not always because they are quitters.

iotc247 · Oct 29, 2005, 07:06 PM // 19:06

Yes I do think so unless they start releasing chapters faster. Quests are ok to play. Not the greatest fun but ok. Missions on the otherhand give the best storyline. However the thing is that after you beat a mission once or twice it is boring. Then you have this economy that is the worst I have ever seen. I mean when objects start selling for the most you can hold it is getting rediculous. So really, instead of all these updates (some are ok, some I don't give a crap about), and instead of everything being pvp orientated, why not make some new missions. You do have PvE players Anet!

Sanji · Oct 29, 2005, 07:10 PM // 19:10

I didn't say they didn't have valid reasons and that them not liking Guild Wars wasn't a factor.

I'm just pointing out a recurring trends of gamers being fickle and willing to plow through game after game. I don't think it's a sign that Guild Wars is "dying", it's just how gamers are these days. The market is flooded, people largely have preconceptions of what a game genre should be, some people are burnt out on games, and sometimes it's hard to objectively judge current things against hindsight.

So, yeah, maybe what I say isn't completely fair, but neither is half the crap said/made in these threads. Guild Wars shouldn't be judged like an MMORPG. It's a pick up, play, and put down then pick up again sort of game. It's pacing is drastically different, if people try to milk gameplay out of Guild Wars at an MMORPG fanatic pace, yeah, then game is pretty much dead for them, 'cause they killed it.

nimloth32 · Oct 29, 2005, 07:17 PM // 19:17

in fact, guild wars is a good game. It gives opportunity to those who cannot afford the monthly fees of MMORPG to try out the fun of MMORPG like there is no monthly fees and people who are using 56k connection also able to play this game. Moreover, the graphics of the game is good. For me, it is a miracle to be able to play such a high quality MMORPG through 56k connection. However, there are problems around. For example, there are too many noobs around in the PvP arena (tomb, arena, etc). It is really frustrating when you keep losing not because you sux, but it is your teammate who sux. Moreover, there are also fierce competition from other MMORPG like WoW, City of Heroes. Considering Guild Wars is based on PvP, i guess there is still a lot of things for anet to do to expand the gameplay of Guild Wars especially for PvP because this game has a great potential.

In short, in my opinion, what Guild Wars need is time to develop its fame. As long as the game has quality, someday it will be recognized. All the best anet.

=HT=E5Destroyer · Oct 29, 2005, 07:32 PM // 19:32

i use to play this game devotly. i played since the 1st beta. however i like most must say the biggest let down was they made this game to easy. DEV. please onm the next chapter make it alot and i mean alot harder. most people were lvl20 and done with the game in a matter of weeks. it is to easy.

iotc247 · Oct 29, 2005, 07:34 PM // 19:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by =HT=E5Destroyer

i use to play this game devotly. i played since the 1st beta. however i like most must say the biggest let down was they made this game to easy. DEV. please onm the next chapter make it alot and i mean alot harder. most people were lvl20 and done with the game in a matter of weeks. it is to easy.

I would have to correct you. Some people were level 20 the day after it was released. Myself, I was level 20 3 days after and finished about 5-7 days after it came out.

Loviatar · Oct 29, 2005, 07:58 PM // 19:58

people

please consider the following items.

first i love this game but there are many and i do mean many things big and small that need adding/fixing.

and they are fixing things as they can.

did anybody besides me like toggling the capes/helms?

bit by bit they are making it better

second this is only the first basic foundation being given to us (ok you have to pay) and the second chapter has been repeatedly stated by both NCsoft and Arenanet to have at least the same amount of new content as the original game.

think about that a moment.

it gives a chance to add those nice touches we have been asking for plus they can devote the time and effort to new content rather than the game engine/server setup and the library of art/animations will speed up new content greatly.

NCsoft has deep pockets and Anet is OWNED by NCsoft (who has many other cash cows to milk) who will run GW at a loss (if necessary) to get this franchise established.

*BUY CHAPTER 2 GET CHAPTER 1 FREE* (example)

this will go a minimum of 3-4 chapters even if sales go down the tube so we will (if we want) be able to play at least another 18 months before decisions are made.

NOTE ON DISPOSABLE GAMES

most of the console/pc games you bought in the last 10 years were disposable in the sense that even if you have not thrown them out they are in a box or on a shelf and you havent played them in years