Curse

Sol Faithman · Mar 26, 2006, 09:16 AM // 09:16

Being a 99% pve'er, I'm finding the pvp missions very tough - the 12 v 12 just seems like total chaos and when you try and stop and ask people "what am I supposed to be doing?" you get the habitual "noob" comments coming back. I admit, I rage quit last night coz I hadn't a clue what was going on

I also agree on the waiting times as well - 20 minutes to get in a mission is way too long.

And Ele's and MM's have a major boost in 12 v 12 - armies of like 30+ minions cannot be beaten and Ele's just pound on groups battling over shrines etc.

Can't fault the pve side though. Amazing scenery to explore and tough mobs although I would imagine a brand new player would find alot of the pve side very very tough...no easy Ascalon introduction's here!!

So a general thumbs up although I'm not too sure if it will entice alot of new players to go out and get Factions due to the learning curve.

Rich

WasAGuest · Mar 26, 2006, 06:21 PM // 18:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by VGJustice

This is false. You won't be able to use a vendor until you have about 400~ faction in that group. So, you can go through one side's story, then go back and do some quests to build up faction on the other side, then you'll have full access.

I had 10k for Luxon and 7k Kurzick and couldn't access the Kurzick merchants. This meant exploring, mapping to a merchant, selling/buying, returning, picking up henchies again (as some players didn't have my friendly cities yet so other players were not a good option). Waste of time.

What I find funny is the need for faction farming. Once all the PvE quests are done, there's nothing left to do but PvP and PvP mini games to get that faction. Faction points are needed in everything, from armor materials to alliance standing. Those focused on competition and standing may end up feeling slighted by fellow alliance members that spend their faction points on armor stuffs rather than helping the alliance move the borders around.

Also, the PvP mini games (competitive missions) are worse than I thought they would be. Not only can one not enter with friends, but one must wait for a long time to even try it. I have a feeling (and it's speculation at this point) that these missions will be ghost towns after a while. Pure PvEers want little or nothing to do with these PvP mini games, and after seeing what I have seen so far, are throwing their hands up in frustration, rage quiting the battles, heading back to Chapter one to farm since faction point farming is the only way to get to the actual game content (PvE missions).

The couple of times I tried the Jade Quarry mission, I sat for over an hour waiting. Not fun. I left EQ cause of the sitting and waiting for groups. So, why would I sit and wait here? When I did get in, I was screamed at by what I guess were seasoned PvPers (yea, I suck at PvP, I despise it, I loathe the "feel" of the game - but thought I would give it a shot), so I dropped from group. This happened twice in a row. One hour, two missions, several "jerks" and nothing gained other than a worse taste in my mouth for the whole experience.

I could run around quest hunting all the time, but why? Guildies (pure PvEers as well) went back to Chapter one to farm more gold so on the occasion an area is availble they can rush in and buy the armor they want from Cantha. This doesn't seem much like a stand alone game, rather a graphic addon for us PvEers.

I once said $20 and maybe I would buy it, now, after this weekend $9.99 would be pushing it. Like I said, farm for cash in Chapter 1, check for needed town in Cantha to be open, map there, purchase or do mission if open, then leave.

I'll stick with my descision not to buy Factions. It's a well thought out PvP game with PvE sprinkled on top for sales. But as it is, the PvE is way to restricted; merchants not wanting money? mission access locked till x faction points are gained? Not for me, I'll wait for Chapter 3 and hope for some real game play, some smarter foes rather than just sheer numbers of strength something to actually do rather than gain points (ala 1980s arcade games).

mqstout · Mar 26, 2006, 08:16 PM // 20:16

Yeah, Guest. It is worse than I too thought it would be. I couldn't use merchants in either side because I happened to have the same faction for both. This problem is especially compounded because faction is at the account level and not at the character level -- so it's not even like you can play one side's missions with one character and another side's with a different one. It's all PvP.

EDIT: Looking at other threads, even the PvPers are complaining... because PvEers are forced into PvP and all the like.

Ensign · Mar 26, 2006, 08:49 PM // 20:49

You have access to the merchants of whichever faction you currently have higher standing with. That is unspent faction. If the two are tied things get a little wonky but that should be cleaned up before release.

If you want to have access to the vendors from the other faction, spend all of your faction with one side, zeroing out your faction with both, then do a single mission for the new side. That should give you access to the vendors and other faction-dependent NPCs.

Peace,
-CxE

Omega X · Mar 26, 2006, 09:21 PM // 21:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by mqstout

This problem is especially compounded because faction is at the account level and not at the character level -- so it's not even like you can play one side's missions with one character and another side's with a different one.

Yes that is a MAJOR problem with the current system.

Dove_Song · Mar 26, 2006, 09:27 PM // 21:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kakumei

Let's decompress a million files at each zone okay?

Had you folowed the posted instruction that is RIGHT by your login window:

And left the loging screen up while you slept, they live streamed all the area's to you and preloaded them. So you didn't have to decompress a thing.

Kakumei · Mar 26, 2006, 10:33 PM // 22:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dove_Song

Had you folowed the posted instruction that is RIGHT by your login window:

And left the loging screen up while you slept, they live streamed all the area's to you and preloaded them. So you didn't have to decompress a thing.

Decompress != download.

Flapper McSparkles · Mar 26, 2006, 10:36 PM // 22:36

Am I the only person that hates Ritualists, at least in PvP?

I used to think Ranger trap skills slowed the game down too much, now it seems they made an entire CLASS around the same idea: One team throws out a bunch of spirits and then they go "you come to us," and the other team goes "nuh-uh, YOU come to US." It drives me nuts because it just turns into a game of who gets bored of sitting around and leaves their advantageous location first.

On the plus side, it makes Elementalist area damage skills more useful in that you can take down a number of spirits with just a few fireballs, but all the Rit has to do is move them all a few yards apart and it is back to the same thing.

I hated traps, and now I hate Ritualists even more. It is to the point that I can't stand PvP unless I build a specifically Ri-killing character for those situations.

Hanok Odbrook · Mar 26, 2006, 10:54 PM // 22:54

Thus far the imbalance in the paths to the two northern battle areas is very frustrating. Playing the Luxon side, I practically could run to the areas solo. On the Kurzick side, I barely was able to get to JQ with a full party - still haven't made it to FA yet. Plus the overwhelming numbers of creatures you end up facing is just rediculous. There's absolutely no strategy involved when you end up being outnumbered 3 or 4 to one. Fighting "war of attrition" battles is very frustrating, and the repetativeness gets boring rather quickly.

Even doing a little PvP myself, I may be more used to the pace of the areans, but I have to agree with another post - it's just utter chaos with little direction on where to go, even with team leaders trying to point the way - if they're off the mini-map, it's pointless. Plus, there's absolutely no indication of which side has more "favor" than the other in the arenas, so you have no idea how close your side is to taking over the area, or loosing it.

So far, at this weekend is winding down, I am thus far still not overly impressed with what I have seen. Far too much eye candy and not enough substance.

Hanok Odbrook
Real Millennium Group Guild
Truth * Knowlege * Peace

ArianeB · Mar 26, 2006, 11:08 PM // 23:08

A few comments:
1.) Here are the semi-confusing rules in regards to the factions:

Basically, when you do missions for either side, you earn faction with them. Whichever side you have LESS faction for, will stop talking to you.

This means several things - firstly, you will be unable to use merchants or the like in enemy outposts. Secondly, there are guards positioned at the rez points closest to outposts in explorable areas, and the rez point will not activate for you unless you either bribe or kill the guards.

It will probably be easiest, when playing through the campaign upon release, to concentrate all of your effort on one side first, complete all the missions, and then spend all your faction before switching to the other. Spending your faction is the easiest way to clear yourself so that you can switch sides, as it will be removed from your character - but it also removes a portion of the other sides faction at the same time, as a result of your show of loyalty to their enemy.

2.)As for Assassins and Ritualists, I have come to the general conclusion, that Assassin and Ritualist both make better secondaries than primaries.

The assassin primary gets "Critical Strikes", but the increased armor of Warrior, or the energy saving "Expertise" of a Ranger may make a more effective assassin. The "Shadow" skills alone of an assassin may make for a popular secondary.

The Ritualists primary "Spawning Power" allows for stronger minions to spawn, but Mesmers "Fast Casting" could spawn them faster, and Monks and Necros could keep them alive longer.

3.) I found it annoying that every mob we fought usually had 6 or 7 "Spirits" which are more distracting when you are tabbing to find your next target.

4.) Could Henchies be used in the PvP missions when there is a shortage of humans? Thats what happens when you do the PvP mission just before pre-sear. Also making teams 12x12 dramatically increases your chances that people will drop out. Maybe if there are not enough players that the teams could be finished with henchies, and if a member of one team leaves for any reason, the opposing team loses a henchie.

Not sure what the fix is, but definitely something that will need some work.

5.) Speaking of Henchies, in Chap 1, the fighter henchies were usually the most effective, and 2nd most necessary after the healer/protector henchies. I've found with playing the henchies in Factions that it is the ranger henchies (especially the longbow henchie) that are the most effective.

6.) Some of you are complainging about the skipping around the map and the lack of PvE missions. I assume that the first teleport jumped over the 1 to 20 leveling zones, and they would rather not allow PvE missions until the full commercial release. I think it is important to take the word "preview" seriously. This weekend no doubt only provided maybe 10% of the total content.

I spent the weekend trying out different builds, deleting and creating characters out of my 1 empty character slot, to see the new costumes, scenery, skills, bad guys etc. I had no interest in doing more than a few missions, knowing that I'll have to do it all again when the game goes live officially.

Hanok Odbrook · Mar 26, 2006, 11:36 PM // 23:36

Ariane brings up a good point, and WasAGuest mentioned this problem. Thus far, it has been extremely frustrating to: first try to get into a PvP mission - especially FA, then have a lot of people on one side leave as their side is loosing. Plus, the fact that guilds can't form the alliances for alliance battles this weekend doesn't allow us to get any feel for this mechanic at all - not a good thing considering this is a major part of the new chapter and one that may be make or break for people deciding whether to buy it or not.

Hanok Odbrook
Real Millennium Group Guild
Truth * Knowledge * Peace

PS: plus these arena maps are so big, that it's hard to tell where your needed, or where the least defended capture point lies. Once you are killed and sent to another rez point, you have no clue where your teammates are or your team leader is. There needs to be an option that allows you to view the entire arena on the map without having to constantly resized the mini-map.

Plus, these arenas are going to turn out to be a haven for Minion Necros - I lost count of how many times my team has been overrun with minions, and basically has to spend the rest of the mission running around like idiots until they all died (if we didn't loose first).

Cottage Pie · Mar 27, 2006, 12:20 AM // 00:20

until I see punishments for ragequitters, i won't even think about buying the game.

lg5000 · Mar 27, 2006, 12:56 AM // 00:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by ArianeB

Secondly, there are guards positioned at the rez points closest to outposts in explorable areas, and the rez point will not activate for you unless you either bribe or kill the guards.

I sooo enjoy picking fights with them though

Flapper McSparkles · Mar 27, 2006, 12:57 AM // 00:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by ArianeB

The Ritualists primary "Spawning Power" allows for stronger minions to spawn, but Mesmers "Fast Casting" could spawn them faster, and Monks and Necros could keep them alive longer.

As for Fast Casting benefitting Rit spells, it does not work that way (at least it didn't in the January preview, I haven't tried this time). Most of those ritualist skills are not "spells" but "rituals." Fast casting did NOT effect those 8 second casting time spirits and such. Pissed me off, since I am a Mesmer fanboy.

WasAGuest · Mar 27, 2006, 01:06 AM // 01:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cottage Pie

until I see punishments for ragequitters, i won't even think about buying the game.

Then there also needs to be a punishment for cursing, screaming, tantrum throwing and general acting like my 3 year old child when one dies. Sorry, but punishing people for leaving after hearing some fool scream or call other team members names or being generally rude is just wrong. I left out of frustration twice cause of the jerks I got stuck with. It would be completely unethical for Anet to punish people for stepping out of such situations.
I realise there are people who drop out just for losing, but consider the players that are now getting into these games.

1) Will quit if they don't have an ideal team.
2) Will quit if they fall behind*
3) Will quit when they feel a loss is nearing*
4) will quit if they re-meet someone that was a jerk earlier

* These players are going to be heavily PvEers (like me) that feel some of competitive missions are a hurdle in the way of getting faction points. Yes, there are other ways to get them, and they are more effective, but once those quests are done.. what then? So, time being a concern, these players will drop and rejoin to quickly get what they desire.
Pure PvEers are a whole breed different than most people think they are. It's not about the challenge, the competition or the points. It's about the gear and everything in between is in the way and will be bypassed, skipped over, or used to get it. Any loss or waste of time for these players will be considered a major annoyance. They are not playing for the skill thrill, or the rush of it, they are playing to gain that item they want, or that mission that pits them against some massive monster that gives them a good beating.
Anet can push the PvP onto the PvEers, but the PvEer will remain the same player, and that doesn't always mesh well with PvPers.

I personally fit into the last three, probably because I haven't the foggiest idea what would be considered a ideal group in PvP... nor do I really care to find out either, especially after this weekend.

Justis Guy · Mar 27, 2006, 02:54 AM // 02:54

I tried the beta some this weekend and I was not overly impressed.
the graphics were nice, and I too did like the tigers, they were neat and moved very well.
I played an assassin first go round and forgot to look and change my skill lists, but was pretty satisfied with the 1-2-3 combo they had set up, it dealt some nice damage.
I then joined up with my buddy I sent an invite to, and I played a tank ( gotta love tanks) and he had an assassin.
we ran around and had some fun but did not get too far.
Call me a noob if you wish, I just started prophecies a few weeks ago, so two noobs ran around with henchies and did . . . ok not great.
I have read this entire thread and must agree with sentiment from the PvE'ers (like myself) dont force PvP on me!
Like WasAGuest said . . PvP'ers are a different breed from the PvE'ers and the two dont mesh well when forced to play together.
I did not like the fact that the merchants and vendors "dont like you" . . I battled my way there and then got told to take a hike!! that is BS
I went to both places, the Luxons and Kurzicks and liked the look of the Luxons much better . . the giant sea turtles were cool .. . but the "easy" kill the nagas quest! geez o petes! those nagas are way tough!
Had to agree with the person that said the henchies are too agressive . . the kept aggroing on the next group to my annoyance, not giving me a chance to assess things before moving on. Also hated all the "spirits of____" things, just plain annoying, who ever heard of a plant conjuring up spirits!

So Anet . . make this alot more PvE freindly and I may buy it . . but as it stands . . a PvP module . . . I will keep my money for something else.

Justis Guy
W/E 14
made it to the frost gate! hurray!

dreamhunk · Mar 27, 2006, 03:01 AM // 03:01

I think anet shouldnot forse pvers or rpg players to pvp!

Omega X · Mar 27, 2006, 03:27 AM // 03:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kakumei

Decompress != download.

Wrong.

Decompress = Decompress

Download = Download

My machine had to decompress files that downloaded for Factions when I visited the areas. I did not have to download anything during that time.

All downloading was done during the inital streaming process when it was left at the log in screen a week before then.

Feminist Terrorist · Mar 27, 2006, 05:08 AM // 05:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zehnchu

I like the game over all and can’t wait till April 28th.

Other then one mission on the Kurzick’s side, where you fight to point A to kill boss then to talk to person B, only to zone to point B talk to person C, then to re-zone the area you where just fought the same mad mobs to point C talk to person D, back to point D where you got the quest to talk to person E, only to find out that point E is in the same area as person B,D to talk to person F. and that’s about as far as I have gotten because I know what’s next and getting frustrated with the Henchmen with the AI as smart as road kill I had to walk away. I just have to remember this mission because the xp and points earned it’s really worth it and I will skip it.

But I hope they work on henchmen,

Beak of Darkness? I spent 2 days on that damn thing. Totally stupid, annoying quest.

mqstout · Mar 27, 2006, 06:02 AM // 06:02

To recap the thread: faction points = failure.