Curse

TB_ · Apr 01, 2006, 06:17 PM // 18:17

At the original preview event I invited some friends along and most enjoyed it, a few didn't, never the less they gave me some great feedback. I published this into one of the forums just encase one of the devs read it. I invited more people this time, and once again they have some good comments. Some of this is common opinion, other things are new.

Please note that since they're new they see factions preview event as the whole, not the new content or changes that experienced players see so its more of an overall evaluation of the engine, content and such. Because of this they suggested many changes they wanted to see as well as tweaks

Loading:
Okay, we all had issues with it during the preview but here are some comments they had:

(From the coders) Complete rewrite of the loading code is needed, it used way to much CPU time for doing so little. (With this I agree, some major changes need to be made)
We are all familiar with the streaming of data into the game while its running, perhaps the decompression can be done this way as well, so while data is being streamed in, it can be decompressed then.
Instead of loading all the content for the zone you enter all at once, perhaps have much of the content decompress in the background based on where the person is most likely to go. For example, lets say 92% of people walk into a town, and take portal A vs portal B, then decompressing the data for portal A first in the background may save time.
While we were in the new zone waiting for others to load, the new guys couldn't tell if the others were loading or had fallen off the server. This is something we all still experience today. A possible solution is to make the party lists loading information separate to disconnection by allowing the players client to send information while its loading. A disconnected client wouldn't do this. So even a simple ping type activity would work fine, it could also allow the other party members to see the players loading progress.
Being cut off from the party for (in the case of the preview) up to 2 hours at a time is obviously a major problem, allowing basic chat to the party would solve some of players isolation. Encase users don't know, the chat system actually works during the normal loading system now, but you can read or send new msgs, but they do arrive.

User Interface:

For people who ran the game at a lower res (1024 or lower) they noticed things could be very cramped and suggested that some common windows could be made smaller or transparent. At this point I suggested they check out the party window in observer mode, and they agreed that the observer mode type window could be an option in game. The standard party window, as well as the friends list could benefit from an option to switch to that style of interface.
Even in the preview people were posting sale notices in the all channel, one of my friends suggested to me of having the game send msgs with WTB or WTS into the trade channel automatically. (I have thought of this myself but after some thinking I don't know if it'd work well)
A couple of my friends were pissed off by the constant skill tips popping up when they pressed a skill, they wanted an option to turn it off. This has been suggested before but thought id mention it.
This is one I noticed as well, the small gadget which opens and closes the trees in the friends list don't keep their position.
This one everyone can try out to see. Type a line into chat, then another. Use the buffer to select the original line and enter it again and press back up to the last line. It will be the 2nd line you typed, not the first. This is bloody annoying when you're trying to sell things or look for a group. To make it clear for those who don't want to try, every line you type should be added to the buffer even if its there already.
pop up hints for things show up now and then, most of my friends found these lacking in information, and often not showing up when they needed it most of all, such as when you get a rune or weapon upgrade which hasn't been found. Apart from the obvious solution of adding in hints for this and expanding the text, adding in quests which explain these sorta things at the start of the game would help.
The ability to toggle a notification on the friends list to certain members logging in or leaving was a highly requested addition to factions.
The option to have more priv msg tabs was something one of my friends mentioned.

Outposts and Game world:

One of my friends logged on for the first time while I was asleep, he logged in, made a character, got a secondary and wondered into the world.... solo. He had no idea he could take henchmen with him. Early on a hint or better a quest which explains this would help, as would a note that X area is intended for n to n players would help. Missions already have this.
This is one of the better notes my friends had. When going to a outpost where a guild member or friend of yours is, it would be nice if the game sent you to the same zone. This would save time and make for quicker partying.
During the event most of my friends started in the Kurzick area, as it was closest which in itself is perhaps a disadvantage to the luxon side. However, once they arrived they found the content to be harder than the Luxons which resulted in the heavy waiting times most users experienced in PvP and PvE. It was quite surprising how much the balance difference made in the different sides.
Also referring to the Game world content as above, in the kurzick side most of my friends explored alone out into the world with henchmen but they all came back with the same comments: To easy for lvl 20 content, and considering the map size, WAY to easy. I must agree with this, given that Chapter 1s content has become easier by the month I can understand their need to have C2 remain challenging. The first time I went through C1 it was hard, but not as hard as it should be, and with each character following it got easier and easier. With 80% of factions content being for lvl 20 and the elite content being almost impossible to access for the average player, it needs to be hard to make up for it. (Many of my friends made it through the content without issues using henchmen, which is a bad sign for the contents difficulty rating.)

Sound:

I will skip their comments on the problems with the sound engine, but all experienced sound problems ranging from missing sounds to a complete crash of the sound system needing a reboot to fix.

They really enjoyed the music, but found the quality in technical not artistic terms to be lacking. The music in the Kurzick capital for example had a bizarre high pitched noise for a few of my friends.
Sounds we also good, but they'd like to see effect sounds more specific as well as actions of weapons and such (however due to the errors in the engine they couldn't test if they were there).
For my friends with Audigy cards which support EAX, they wanted to see some area effects for each zone.

Graphics:

To say they liked the gfx was an understatement, they did notice a few places which needed some changes or comment.

On the stairs outside of the House Zu Heltzer they stood out as being almost unfinished. (I noticed this to).
The game slows down quite a lot on some cards using the shadows on option, one asked if a newer faster shadow routine could be added. Shadows make a big difference so I am for that, especially as shadows in doom3 are quicker for me than in GW:F.
The sky needs to change to a different method as the majority of it at the top is empty (Sky Dome). The tombs and other places maybe the sorta thing they mean as a replacement.
This is a little technical: The GW:F engine seems to render all content in a town, despite where it is. This means if you had a town with 100 people, and 99 were standing hidden behind a pillar or building, the game would still render them. This unnecessary rendering wastes time and slows down the frame rate. This can be fixed and any newer engines can skip rendering what you cant see. Perhaps this is an option for the engine on release.
Characters cant stand on a angled surface. (I had to tell them this wasnt a bug. It is true, GW characters cant stand on a angled surface, instead they hover, this is true for some props as well, example, the bones in Elonas reach or the storage chest in the team arenas.) They found this highly irritating and something which was just down right lazy. It also features a lot in the factions trailer which doesnt make the best impression.
1 friend of a friend who tried to capture a pet had it killed several times by the henchmen she had before she could tame it, this is one of those obvious things people don't like. (I dont agree with this but see their point of view)
The assassins movement and dancing needs redoing. They all found it (including me) to be rushed and of a lower quality that the other professions. And surprise surprise, the hunchback thing didn't go down well
Characters only seem to have 1 death animation, they'd like more. Rag doll was high on the want list.

PvP (this includes the pve pvp):

Penalties for those who quit so they can not gain more faction in the next match by winning than if they had played the first match through and then the second.
Penalties would only apply if a person went to another zone, or quited the game and returned in a small time frame to stop abusing the system.
When someone quits a dopple ganger should be added using henchmen AI for that profession combination or a equivalent person from the joining que. Its important the henchmen added looks identical from the person who quit so the other team can not target the weak member. (This is without a doubt the most asked for thing for PvP ive seen and I agree 100%)
The scoring should be able to be moved to alternative locations. We found it got in the way and would have loved to put the numbers (seperately) where we wanted.
When a battle is begging to become a disaster of epic proportions for one team, that team should be given a boost of some kind. This would reduce the number of quiters and make or more fun. Its important the boost is temporary and is removed with any sign of a major comeback. This could be a morale boost, speed boost, extra armor, etc
When there is an imbalance in the numbers on one side of a mission or alliance battle, the lesser side should get incentives to go there and battle. Extra experience, faction or gold. This could be done via a public announcement (For the next X minutes the NPC in N city will offer you 500 gold once and once only for winning in the mission/pvp). I think the winning part is a good idea. This could prevent what happened in the preview of the 30mins to enter the mission.
At one of the PvPvE missions a dev was sitting there, we asked why we couldn't take out PvP characters there and he said it was because this was PvE (which is confusing to many). Anyway, it would be good if these mission could become accessible to pvp chars one you have finished the game so you can play them (in a separate instance from the PvE'ers). This might extend the games appeal and playtime. No point wasting content. (Coff*Ascalon Arena, Shiver peaks Arena*Coff)

Misc:

This is some stuff which I didn't think worked above:

We all enjoyed playing ritualists (and yet didn't like the assassin), but with the ritualists management type play style, it lacked the information to truly take advantage of this. One thing asked for was someway to tell who is effected by the spirits (I guess this could be done by a blue arrow on the players bar), as well as its range.
Rit players also need a way to cycle through their spirits in the same was everyone can use tab to cycle through foes.
A couple friends grabbed all the quests they could find then ran outside and got slaughtered. It wasn't till later I told them that with each quest you take you spawn a new set of mobs. It would be nice if early on there was a warning for new users
It was only in the last day they realized towns could be purchased and so didn't have much time to research it but did make the comment that the system should be such that for each day that passes it should become harder and harder to hold onto a town to stop the uber alliances from holding them all constantly.
An alternative path to the elite content was requested as well. I don't know what they mean but id say something like the ToA style system perhaps.

Phew, and they had even more things to say but it was all generic things we've known for the last year, party system, trading blah blah blah. I don't know if any of this will help the devs, but its interesting to see what new people see GW as never the less.

Former Ruling · Apr 01, 2006, 07:14 PM // 19:14

Loading WAS an issue during the preview. These newer, bigger, maps being all loaded before you can enter was a problem that I dont really have with ch1.

For Interface: I have thoguht of two of those. 1) The sizing on windows. TO get all the accurate information you need clearly visible on the screen you have to devote like half your screen to just information. This isnt a problem to people that memorize key sets and do that, but for people that acutally click the skill icons and such its a problem. Also I want to be able to disable the skill desp. when I'm clicking them also. They updated them to start about a cm higher so wihle using the default setting it doesnt cover your Hp. Problem being...now it covers up the energy AND health of my personal interface.....I want to be able to just remove them...i know what the skills do.

FOr Content I really dont agree with nearly any of their comments. In the actual game you are told fairly easrly what you need to do and how to do it (The FIRST quest in post even has it as a step in the quest to pick up the helaer henchman). This demo was lacking a "first quest" like that, because it is end game content. As for Difficulty - Having poor skill sets to choose from, and HORRIBLE henchman AI made it for some of the most challenging Guild Wars I've ever played (and I've completely finished Chapter 1's pve content). I often had to repeat quests or rack up DP to henchman the lower areas.

The Graphics engine is alittle freshman class to me also. My big problem is Collusion Detection. There are spots in the game that have been there since the game came out where you fall through bridges/stairs, or mobs get stuck on terrian glitches, etc. Thats just shameful for a finished game... It'd be different if it as in some backwoods area noone zones into but one of the MOST PLAYED missions in ch1 has these glitches all through it. Another thing is Height Sensory...The game has none. Even though features of the game take advantage of height (like High arc bows) the game still doesn't reconize any difference between 1 foot and 100 feet. Example: A warrior can stand at the bottom of a tall wall, and a mob be at the top by the edge - the warrior can actually attack the mob normally like it was in front of it because the game doesn't reconize that the mob is any higher than the warrior.

Add-ins in PvP games would be awesome...but hard/impossible for the Anet team to do considering how they load instances now. They'd have to improve that first.

TB_ · Apr 02, 2006, 08:19 PM // 20:19

Id like to see some more comments on this topic please. *Bump*

Esprit · Apr 02, 2006, 09:01 PM // 21:01

Is there not a quest that prevents you from leaving Ascalon City without henchmen?

Most of the comments seem to be complaints/dislikes (sure there were some good comments, however, most followed by a 'but'). As much as ANET encourages comments like this, telling ANET what they are doing right is also useful. You wrote what your friends did not like, I would suggest you include what they did like, with some explanation similar to that you gave for disliked parts.

Quote:

Characters only seem to have 1 death animation, they'd like more. Rag doll was high on the want list.

Ever kill someone when they are on fire?

This isn't Mortal Combat or Unreal Tournament. >_>

Aeon221 · Apr 02, 2006, 10:51 PM // 22:51

Psh, rag doll can go hang. I want a graphic for my earthquake (nobody respects the earth ele because they think the fire ele is doing all the work), some different graphics for minions (vamp, minion, bone golem, and bone horror all look the friggen same), and the ability to change the looks of my ugly ass ele (a newbie mistake on the graphical design of my character shouldnt penalize me for the rest of eternity!).

Not to mention the remaining three Realms of the Gods that were never implemented. Melandru, Dwayna, and Lissa have nuffing to do! Why should Balth and Grenth hog all the moolah?

Oh, and the pve flesh golems in the original look nothing like the munchkin I summoned in Factions. Those things were HUGE. This guy is a midgie compared to them!

Omega X · Apr 03, 2006, 03:58 AM // 03:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by TB_

Loading:
Okay, we all had issues with it during the preview but here are some comments they had:

(From the coders) Complete rewrite of the loading code is needed, it used way to much CPU time for doing so little. (With this I agree, some major changes need to be made)
We are all familiar with the streaming of data into the game while its running, perhaps the decompression can be done this way as well, so while data is being streamed in, it can be decompressed then.
Instead of loading all the content for the zone you enter all at once, perhaps have much of the content decompress in the background based on where the person is most likely to go. For example, lets say 92% of people walk into a town, and take portal A vs portal B, then decompressing the data for portal A first in the background may save time.
While we were in the new zone waiting for others to load, the new guys couldn't tell if the others were loading or had fallen off the server. This is something we all still experience today. A possible solution is to make the party lists loading information separate to disconnection by allowing the players client to send information while its loading. A disconnected client wouldn't do this. So even a simple ping type activity would work fine, it could also allow the other party members to see the players loading progress.
Being cut off from the party for (in the case of the preview) up to 2 hours at a time is obviously a major problem, allowing basic chat to the party would solve some of players isolation. Encase users don't know, the chat system actually works during the normal loading system now, but you can read or send new msgs, but they do arrive.

That in BOLD is an issue NOW. For the most part it always has been. AND with all of the extra stuff being streamed into old territories, its slowly getting WORSE.

ALSO, Decompressing in the background would not be wise. BUT fixing the Load screen would solve the slow decompression issue and slow loadin. Since more resources would be dedicated to do so.

Sending info while loading is ALSO unwise. HOWEVER, status icons next to the names on the party window would help alot to tell who is loading and who is lagging.

For the Last one, Being able to rejoin the group when you have disconnected would be an AWESOME addition. Since you were originally apart of that instance, the player should be able to access it when loading back into the game. There should be a yes/no dialog to rejoin the instance right when loading to eliminate abusing the system. If No was chosen then the player forfeits his/hers spot in the instance and can't access it again.

gou · Apr 03, 2006, 03:15 PM // 15:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aeon221

Psh, rag doll can go hang. I want a graphic for my earthquake (nobody respects the earth ele because they think the fire ele is doing all the work), etc. etc.

Yeah not many rpgs stick with the same lame graphic from start to finish either.

You know, in the beta before prophecies release I ran around pre-sear with a friend and he showed me firestorm and my first comment was...
"Wow! can't wait to see what that looks like at level 20!"

:/

TB_ · Apr 03, 2006, 03:22 PM // 15:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by Omega X

That in BOLD is an issue NOW. For the most part it always has been. AND with all of the extra stuff being streamed into old territories, its slowly getting WORSE.

ALSO, Decompressing in the background would not be wise. BUT fixing the Load screen would solve the slow decompression issue and slow loadin. Since more resources would be dedicated to do so.

Sending info while loading is ALSO unwise. HOWEVER, status icons next to the names on the party window would help alot to tell who is loading and who is lagging.

For the Last one, Being able to rejoin the group when you have disconnected would be an AWESOME addition. Since you were originally apart of that instance, the player should be able to access it when loading back into the game. There should be a yes/no dialog to rejoin the instance right when loading to eliminate abusing the system. If No was chosen then the player forfeits his/hers spot in the instance and can't access it again.

Loading/decompressing data in the bg is nothing major, its done every day in many games with no negative effect. As the game gets older and more data is added into the dat file, things wil get worse as its internal filesystem will become fragmented.

To show icons to what your status is, it requires sending data otherwise the game doesnt know.

neoteo · Apr 03, 2006, 05:05 PM // 17:05

Quote:

(Many of my friends made it through the content without issues using henchmen, which is a bad sign for the contents difficulty rating.)

let me tell you that with henchmen it was a lot easyer , i think 80% of players were not very experienced ... going with hench was a lot easyer.

if you are experienced player using henchs and going slow , yes its easy .
but imo its becose you have 2000 hours ingame in chap 1 , not becose the game is that easy , anyway , i agree , anet , make it harder , so hard ... pvp players will die

in other words , everyone dies , make stpuditly hard , make it impossible , please