Curse

Pandora's box · Apr 01, 2006, 05:13 PM // 17:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by Avarre

Quite possibly the only way to make monsters even weaker would be to remove them from the game.

Lol, not all of them!

The world of GW is big enough to satisfy 99% of the player base. The only thing it needs is non linear gameplay. Make it possible to get from A to B in many differend ways. Like a relaxed rpg style? Fine! Plot your way through the nature and do lots of quests! Like it the hard way? Choose a mission based line! Allow players to play in their own style. Just like Luxon and Kurzick already had differend kinds of maps. Great! Introduce many more of those variations and PvE will become as good, if not better, as PvP

Winstar · Apr 01, 2006, 09:39 PM // 21:39

I really like the fact that GW is a skills based game, it reminds me of magic back in the day. But there is also something a little dissapointing about the items, especially 15k armour. Since the point at which you get 15k you are essentially done with the main storyline, adding some additional bonus that isn't obtainable by regular armour would not give you any terrible advantage in pve. It would aid in things like farming, and uw, fow, toak, which are all higher level activities anyway. You could ban it from pvp if you wanted if that would be a problem, no biggie. Since the next expansion is intended to begin at a higher level (correct me if I am wrong

) then having better arm going in wouldn't be as big deal. I mean add some additional bonuses against ele damage or something.

As for weapons, I think the power level has been set reaonably. The best weapons are in fact effective but not the difference between being able to do a mission or not. Some more unique items in terms of skins would be nice, or plot related items like someone else had mentioned.

Savio · Apr 02, 2006, 01:53 AM // 01:53

This is not the "Guild Wars is/isn't an RPG" thread, this is the "Rare items in Guild Wars" thread. Please find another more appropriate thread to discuss it in or make a new one.

EDIT: To the person below me, you're fine. I deleted some posts in which someone was trying to argue about how Guild Wars isn't an RPG, which really has nothing to do with anything here.

Winstar · Apr 02, 2006, 02:17 AM // 02:17

What is wrong with talking about how the rare items might be improved in the "Rare items in Guild Wars" thread? If you were not talking to me, sorry my bad

awelcomecomatose · Apr 02, 2006, 02:24 AM // 02:24

Just add more rare skins. People like collecting let them. Greater Diversity in the economy is a good thing.

Pandora's box · Apr 02, 2006, 11:34 AM // 11:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by Savio

This is not the "Guild Wars is/isn't an RPG" thread, this is the "Rare items in Guild Wars" thread. Please find another more appropriate thread to discuss it in or make a new one.

You are right.
Thing is that its all conected somehow. As for me I don't care much about skins and the way items look. An item should be rare by its attributes. And than we talk about balance. And balance is connected with PvP. So before you know it players will discuss PvP, PvE, RPG... and so on.

Its often necessary to give the background of a point of view. Next people should discuss the point of view and not the background. But that seems to be very hard.

-Loki- · Apr 02, 2006, 12:58 PM // 12:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by Loviatar

[/B]

no he was much better than you to get equal results under an 8 level handicap in health/energy/attribute points.

Energy levels stay the same aside from armour bonuses from level 1.

MasterDinadan · Apr 02, 2006, 01:20 PM // 13:20

I kind of like the idea of better gear being available, but ONLY for co-op missions. So you could find a rare weapon with "better than max" damage or attributes (or just some more original attributes) but it gets a mod "PVE ONLY" which means you can't enter any PVP or competitive mission with the item equipped!!

This means PVP keeps it's balance (everyone has easy access to the top PVP items) but RPers/PVEers have some better gear to try and obtain (more difficult co-op content can be added to challenge these people with "better than PVP" gear)

So everyone would be happy! Right? I kind of like PVE ability to be at least partially a function of time investment (but MOSTLY player skill), and PVP ENTIRELY a function of player skill... This set up would fit the bill perfectly!

Zui · Apr 02, 2006, 02:01 PM // 14:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lawnmower

I don't get it. Why is so many people against having rare and uniqe items in the game?

Is it because that everyone is paranoid that it will create uber items or what?

There are already rare items in the game. They are colored gold. "Unique" items so to speak do exist too, 15k armor, FoW armor, and rare skinned items.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lawnmower

Why not just make tons and tons of incredible rare items that will just look uniqe or something but not be overpowered? To help the economy - to help keep people playing and aiming for desirable things out of sheer bragging or to have a goal just for the sake of it? And it will create more variaty, color and uniqeness to the world?

There aren't "tons" of rare-skinned items, but the ones that do exist are certainly cool looking and very valued.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lawnmower

I like just being able to look at other players in Online RPGs/MMOGs or whatever and just see their rare stuff - Even if its not something I will ever get it's funny to see people who look different.

There are people who look different. Maybe not too many "different" looking armors, but there's certainly dye. There are however plenty of different looking, and rare-skinned items.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lawnmower

And I mean incredible rare items... something that won't drop more than 10 times in GWs entire lifetime. or special rewards/emotes for winning tournaments or something?

There are special rewards(silver and gold cape lining) for winning tourmanemts. And special emotes for gaining rank in HA, as well as item rewards for holding the hall of heroes. As for the insanely rare items idea, that's just pointless, the rare skinned items that currently exist are already quite rare, and the fact that they're so rare means the odds of obtaining a "perfect" version are extremely low.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lawnmower

I don't think you need uber stats or something to make rare and desirable items. If it was me they could sure as hell make 60k, 100k, 100,000k and 1 million armors or whatever..

They have 15k armor, and FoW armor. 15k armor costs 70k and upwards with the materials factored in, even more with the runes. Then there's FoW armor, which will probably always be greater than 1 million gold, unless the price of shards and ectos spontaniously crash and never go back up. 15k armor and FoW armor are both uncommon, and desireable by many.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lawnmower

The key to GW was that these were not NEEDED to win, not that they couldnt make some truly exceptional hardcore fluff for people who wanted it? I'll never play that much or get a chance to get something like that, but for sheer amusement it would be fun to see other people getting it and walking besides someone who had it.

They already have some "exceptional hardcore fluff" in chapter one.

And best of all it wouldnt interfere with the balance. Just more variaty in looks and more to persue. Ain't that a win/win situation?

As already seen, chapter two will offer even more item skins, and obviously some of theese will be rare.

To the second post:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lawnmower

the team that wins the world tournament.. that teams necromancer gets a uniqe chest plate with demonic devil wings. For example... that would be a cool thing to brag about. to see.

I'm sure it would, however the world tournament is PvP, what if the winning teams necro is on a PvP charactar? Not to mention why would anet go about making a unique custom skin that has a possibility of never being used? The cape lining is the best way to go.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lawnmower

Some people just like to have to a goal to pursue. Some people are having an easier time wanting to play PVE for 10,000 billion hours if on the way they could try to get something really cool looking.

For the people who want ultra rare items, they can have them but with much work. People who play PvE have a chance to get something really rare and cool looking! As do people who hold the Hall of Heroes! The difference is the PvErs rare skinned item will likely be crap. Not to mention if you can hold HoH for some time, you can get substantialy more golds than you can get in a month of PvE.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lawnmower

I often see people who have played 1500 hours who does not look different than a guy who has not even played 500. It's just about look, diversity and personallity.

No, guildwars is about skill. There is still the oppurtinuty to have diversity. Time played doesn't mean that much. Someone who spends 3000 hours wanding aloe seeds to death in pre-searing isin't going to have nearly as good and cool stuff as someone who's spent 500 hours in post searing doing things in the ring of fire/southern shiverpeaks/FoW/UW/ToPK and doing titan quests.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lawnmower

so why would a pvper and a role player not go along?

Umm, well, many "PvErs" are total and absolute noobs/idiots/have no clue what they're doing and can't stand a dynamic game type.

Many "PvPers" love a dynamic game type, and understand the game mechanics. They play to the best of their ability, using everything possible to do so... In other words they don't use a 9-13 damage sundering crystalline sword of enchanting because it looks cool...

I am a PvPer(although I've played through the entire PvE game on 3 charactars), and found that I get along with many PvErs that actualy understand the game mechanics and aren't so ignorant they refuse to listen to any suggestions or realise that their way isin't the only way...

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lawnmower

so pvpers feel that everything needs to look the same - Lets strap everything away. from now one you can only be male, only use swords and everything looks the same. lets remove 90% of all textures. Pvpers and role players do not get along.

PvPers prefer functionality over looks. That said, they'd rather have a cool looking item vs a crappy looking item with the exact same stats.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lawnmower

people dont play games like world of warcraft because they think its fun. they play it because it gives them endless stuff to do. invisible walls.
the difference could be that uniqe and rare items in GW would not be uber or have altered stats. just be incredible rare for looks.

Already stated, there are items that are rare-skinned.

P.S. To whoever stated somewhere that monsters should be made weaker, I strongly disagree. Make them harder. Make them all level 35+ or give them proper skills, and a compitent AI that can use the skills correctly.

Lawnmower · Apr 03, 2006, 12:30 AM // 00:30

The thing is that all rare stuff you can get in GW is not really rare and very underwhelming.

Of all online RPGs I have played, GW has an incredible low number of uniqe models.

with such few weapon types and only bland humans as race and one dimensional armor per class - (like masks only for rangers... no uniqe ranger hoods/helmets/hats/other headgear).

The point I was trying to make was that even the most rare stuff(like gold items) are wayyyyy to common. GW fights itself to death because everyone looks the same.

will factions help adding more diversity? yes it will, but thats a hole new campaing with a hole bunch of useless weapons.

Its funny seeing lvl 20 with the exact same model as their starter sword(the short sword/gladius)... sure the stats and name might be different but it looks the same.

dyeing it adds a bit to the sense of individualism, but as it stance its very very limited, and I have a feeling that in the "End game" everyone will look the same just as they do now.

if you look at a game like WoW - I think they have close to over 10,000 actual uniqe equip-able items, including dual wielding mix match. you can mix your dual wielding so you can have axe/mace/sword/dagger/whatever mixed and match the way you want...

in GW your stuck with dagger/dagger and they all look fundamentaly the same.

if you want a two handed melee weapons - its a hammer or nothing. no spears, no swords no nothing.

and in terms of looks its like that as well. you cant be a monk and have a cool priest hood. you cant be a warrior and have a fancy bandana. because there is so few sets of armor, and the rewards are likewise the same.

so is there really any achivements at all? I think everyone is surprised about how many people who favor PvE - I think its because that people just think the things you can earn in pvp is horrible. pvp rewards is not enough and it doesnt feel great to win against a bunch of players that look exactly like yourself. it makes you think your playing a steril first person shooter or a really bad bland asian MMO in early beta.

If I were a designer on this game I would add some very uniqe items that would drop once in a lifetime. tons of them. these would not be more powerful than some other stuff in the game but they would look uniqe. perhaps weapons with very uniqe effects like cel shading or just different styles. add a uniqe pair of daggers that are actually long blades, but work as daggers... stuff like this would make everything more desirable.

it would:

1)give money more worth. many people dont have anything to spent money on that they think is worthwhile. This would greatly help the economy because more stuff is being added. money means something. no more with people giving 30k away to newbies like it is now. money has way to little importance in the game. its almost a diasaster how useless money is.

2)give people something to do long after they are bored. instead of doing farming runs they are looking for something very very very rare looking and cool.

3)make the game feel more alive and personal.

4)add a new collectable feel to the game.

they could start with implanting 200 uniqe weapons/armors/off hand items. some could be identical items statwise with different looks, and others could have their own effects. some could be poor and just used for coolness factor. some could have crazy requirements like. "can only be equiped on Warrior/Rangers", "can only be enquiped on eme/monks".
It could be an effective way to make less desireble and less popular combos more popular. mesmer/necromancer is not something you see everyday. So maybe make a special mesmer/necro only item that everyone will go crazy over because it just looks unbeliveable and more will make one of does.

the great thing about adding rare items, is that it wont effect the games balance. it will only make it hundred times better. I often talk to people who want even want to play guild wars because "lol u can only be human. what a crappy game". they are giving up on it on advance because it does not have the individualism that so many people find charming about these kinds of games. the difference between end game armor and 15k end game armor is not that great.

this could be a way to break the trend.

new chapters is for new content and new ways to progress to lvl 20, what im talking about is just the overall "end game item mantra". GW has one but its very very limited and not very exciting.

it was one of the really great things about diablo and wow. There was so so so many things and different styles of weapons and armors. spears, and crossbows and oh my. it made you feel like your own.

but can you honestly tell me that you dont feel like a clone when walking into lions arch with your lvl 20? I sure can't.

Im saying this because I think lack of variaty in items is one of the few weaknesses that GW has, and I think its one of the things that ArenaNet underrestimates.

Weezer_Blue · Apr 03, 2006, 01:52 AM // 01:52

Rare skinned weapons? Fine. Make them as flashy and rare as you want.

Stats? No. It would unbalance PvP as well as make PvE even more excessively easy than it already is.

lyra_song · Apr 03, 2006, 02:01 AM // 02:01

Read the suggestion forum. People want more weapons (polearms, spears, two-hand swords, two hand axes, 1 handed hammers). People want more visual options (accessories, necklaces, rings, etc).

dreamhunk · Apr 03, 2006, 02:49 AM // 02:49

Here will put it in a smiple way for people to under stand! there is no point to gold! there is really no point to pve, It is all fluff! No point in getting other chapters because chapter 1 has all the fluff you need! No point in pve because nothing ever gets better!

might as well make this a pvp game! weapon will always remain useless! all must every thing in pve will remain useless, because very one will always be the same.

pve time = useless weapons = useless time = no different charactors = little or no Role playing = grind = nothing really new = mindless entertainment(bad for rpg players) = no depth = hack and slash = new chapters boring = pointless = learning nothing=burn out!

that is what we rpg players know about rpg!

Sunai · Apr 03, 2006, 03:05 AM // 03:05

You know, dreamhunk, you're right. But why stop there? What's the point in buying ANY game?

Oh, wait. Something called "entertainment"?

pappayaponta · Apr 03, 2006, 05:50 AM // 05:50

Yes...I agree with OP.

/signed (this is not the suggestion thread, but...) :P

MasterDinadan · Apr 03, 2006, 05:59 AM // 05:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lawnmower

people dont play games like world of warcraft because they think its fun. they play it because it gives them endless stuff to do.

Umm, most of the people I know play games because they think they are fun or entertaining. That's the whole point. ANet doesn't have all of the time and resources to do EVERYTHING they want to do to this game, so I don't think items should be a huge priority.
New items are always fun to see, but I'd be very upset if ANet spent all of their time adding new items in Factions and did a half-ass job on the Alliance battles or new Factions. Most of the players care about getting new gameplay content than they do mere cosmetic changes. You may not be one of them, but I'm afraid you are a minority

ExDeity · Apr 03, 2006, 06:12 AM // 06:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by dreamhunk

Here will put it in a smiple way for people to under stand! there is no point to gold! there is really no point to pve, It is all fluff! No point in getting other chapters because chapter 1 has all the fluff you need! No point in pve because nothing ever gets better!

might as well make this a pvp game! weapon will always remain useless! all must every thing in pve will remain useless, because very one will always be the same.

pve time = useless weapons = useless time = no different charactors = little or no Role playing = grind = nothing really new = mindless entertainment(bad for rpg players) = no depth = hack and slash = new chapters boring = pointless = learning nothing=burn out!

that is what we rpg players knowabout rpg!

Two questions.

1. You aren't fluent in that language, are you?
2. Why are you in this thread?

You didn't add any new content to the issue, but merely bashed Guild Wars as a game that is all "fluff", for no apparent reason other than it not satisfying your individual needs as one single gamer among many.

I don't agree. PvE is not all "fluff". I get a funny feeling inside when I play Guild Wars. I call it "fun". The diversity that the game has, no matter what its shortcomings, is satisfying enough for me, and many others LIKE me. This thread is talking about rare items; it isn't a discussion questioning Guild Wars' need for an existence as a competitive MMORPG.

Diversity in weapons gives gamers something to look forward to, and something to personalize upon requiring. It gives gamers a reward to playing an otherwise endless game, one that can be played a billion times in different ways and with different strategies... personalized weapons mean something to gamers, even if they are nothing but a different color than the weapon another gamer is wielding. It's really that simple.

As for the dispute between PvP and PvE worrying about balance issues, it really isn't a tough problem to solve: Keep the two separate, and everyone will be happy, except the PvE players who want to show off their weapons to an arena full of competitive PvP'ers who are more focused on winning than observing. Really, nobody could have a justifiable reason to whine if A-Net segregated the two.

Lawnmower · Apr 03, 2006, 09:36 AM // 09:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by MasterDinadan

Umm, most of the people I know play games because they think they are fun or entertaining. That's the whole point. ANet doesn't have all of the time and resources to do EVERYTHING they want to do to this game, so I don't think items should be a huge priority.
New items are always fun to see, but I'd be very upset if ANet spent all of their time adding new items in Factions and did a half-ass job on the Alliance battles or new Factions. Most of the players care about getting new gameplay content than they do mere cosmetic changes. You may not be one of them, but I'm afraid you are a minority

I never talked about factions. Fations is done by seperate teams who make new campaigns. Im talking about the overall concept of the end game across all chapters.
Also I think you are strongly generalising if you think I wanted them to use "all" their resources on making items. I defintely feel cosmetic difference has a way to low priority and end game is meaningless but don't have too be like that.
Remember that its the little things that make games fun to play. the little details. From the people I talked to in the preview, most were much more interested in the new proffesions, armors and weapons than the new factions and alliance battles.
I think everyone here is underrestimating how many PvEers there are in GW that are being treated like dirt. intended or not, there are also quite a few pvp people playing that don't agree with the way things are being done.

Still it does not have to mean that the overall playerbase that just want to play should be shafted. right?

It's just really sad that they are re-using many of the same weapons over and over again. You have the same weapon as you had when you were lvl 10... 13... 15... 17... 20. same models with new stats.

baz777 · Apr 03, 2006, 10:16 AM // 10:16

I like the idea regarding rare rewards for achievement, particularly in PVE, but make it reasonably accessible for all and do not create another elitist item/armour.

quickmonty · Apr 03, 2006, 10:39 AM // 10:39

How about a way to customize your armor. Give the crafter that monstrous eye along with all the other needed materials, and your armor looks different than most other 15K armor. This would not only allow each character to look unique, but would actually provide a use for those rare crafting materials that just take up space in your inventory.