Curse

lord_shar · Feb 10, 2006, 10:06 PM // 22:06

I'll take a furious sword hilt or axe haft over sundering ANY day...

Ruvaen · Feb 10, 2006, 10:09 PM // 22:09

It's nice to trigger the furious mod when you're running high adrenaline cost skills.

Savio · Feb 10, 2006, 10:11 PM // 22:11

Vamp > other mods > no mod > Sundering.

Quote:

Originally Posted by XtrmEend

I notice atleast +15 damage when the 10% kicks in.

I want pics of your normal attacks versus Sundering attacks.

Osi Ri S · Feb 10, 2006, 10:11 PM // 22:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by XtrmEend

I notice atleast +15 damage when the 10% kicks in.

how do u know when it "kicks in". i mean, i never saw anything say "Successfull armor penetratoon +15 dmg."

so i think youre only guessing it kicking in when you do +15 more dmg?

MSecorsky · Feb 10, 2006, 10:20 PM // 22:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ruvaen

It's nice to trigger the furious mod when you're running high adrenaline cost skills.

Sadly, I've yet to find that perfect Furious bow string however.

azunder · Feb 11, 2006, 12:02 AM // 00:02

I think it's because when they crit, they *think* the sundering kicked in. They then keep it with them forever without noticing that they're just getting crits and the sundering mod's not doing anything.

Malchior Devenholm · Feb 11, 2006, 12:12 AM // 00:12

noone knows azunder-as for personal experience from me...

Bow-Vamp String

Hammer and Axe-Furious-high adrenal needed

Sword-Vamp-low adren needed

I kinda like to have a sundering on one of my longbows though, just for the draw and i might pick up the extra dmg

Deathqueen · Feb 11, 2006, 12:39 AM // 00:39

The Vampiric is the best mod overall. Since all things rely on HITTING, even with the sundering when it does proc has to HIT at that moment. And you've all seen yourself swinging at air many times from blind to stances. The vampiric is a guarantee that everytime you hit you're claiming 3 extra health points from that individual and no percentages required. But, when you're using vampiric you have to work more switching back n forth (if you're a good player) for those times when swinging at air is just losing you 1pt of health for that period of time. Good idea to always carry Wild Blow at least you can smash those stanced characters IF it HITS!

Besides if you're using an axe, (which you should be if you're a good player) then penetrating blow is going to give you 20% armor penetratoin and if you want constant 20% penetration just use a W/Mo (not the best class nowadays) but, Judges Insight will give you that 20% armor penetration for quite some time if you smite yourself up.

Frenzy + Vampiric ftw. laffin

I also found the best way to test mods is to goto the 100 armor dummy in the training grounds and time how long it takes to destroy it with each mod. And not use any skills other than the weapon and the mod. Here you will find the vampiric is definitely better than the sundering. To test furious you have to use your adrinilin skills, furious is about like sundering though 10% "chance" just isn't good enough when guaranteed is much better as with vampiric.

Now if you hit "all the time" furious would be beneficial because it would bring your Eviserate up more often, but, that's always the key and point, you don't always hit all the time. Thus you have to rely on "chance" all too often.

Of course I expect arguements, but, I've seen what I've seen what I've seen (Abbott & Costello) and Vampiric just wins out overall. (smile)

eom · Feb 11, 2006, 03:29 AM // 03:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by Savio

Vamp > other mods > no mod > Sundering.

ahahaha...!!

I think it's highly prized for the same reason so many people have to sell every commodity for 10 ea.

jimmy_logic · Feb 11, 2006, 03:39 AM // 03:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ensign

It's enormous. At 16 Marksmanship and with a perfect bow, sundering will add, on average, 4.3 damage every time it procs! AWESOME! It's even better if you crit, then it adds 6.1 damage to your critical hit! ZOMG! Those huge procs totally make up for it only triggering 10% of the time.

Sundering is k-rad I liek it a lot!!!

Five reasons:

1) PvE players do not understand weapon swapping, or they do not believe in doing it. They want their one Ub3R weapon that they keep out *ALL* the time.
2) PvE players do not like things with drawbacks. When the math is poorly understood (ala, it doesn't make numbers on their character screen go up) they use things without drawbacks.
3) PvE players would much rather run around with terrible equipment that 'looks cool' than use something that's actually good.
4) 10/10 sundering is the rarest prefix for bows, and ties for rarest on melee weapons. If there's one thing we've learned from MMOs, it's that rarity = cool.
5) Everyone else likes sundering, and they're paying huge money for it, so if you want to be cool like the masses you need it too.

Peace,
-CxE

Great points there Ensign.

My opinion on bow string upgrades are as follows:

1). Zealous
2). Vampiric
3). Elementals (I would take the bow with the most rare elemental damage so i.e. the one that most people dont bring armor for)
4). Sundering (Purely because its better than number 5.)
5). Condition lengthening ones (A good monk gets rid of conditions real fast)

Regards

Ensign · Feb 11, 2006, 03:58 AM // 03:58

Assuming you're using Apply Poison the Poisoner's String outperforms Sundering by a landslide. Outperforms the elemental strings too.

Peace,
-CxE

Evan The Cursed · Feb 11, 2006, 04:00 AM // 04:00

I heard somewhere that Sundering does not compound with skills that give AP (even when it activates), is that true?

Soul Shaker · Feb 11, 2006, 05:12 AM // 05:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by Deathqueen

The Vampiric is the best mod overall. Since all things rely on HITTING, even with the sundering when it does proc has to HIT at that moment. And you've all seen yourself swinging at air many times from blind to stances. The vampiric is a guarantee that everytime you hit you're claiming 3 extra health points from that individual and no percentages required. But, when you're using vampiric you have to work more switching back n forth (if you're a good player) for those times when swinging at air is just losing you 1pt of health for that period of time. Good idea to always carry Wild Blow at least you can smash those stanced characters IF it HITS!

Besides if you're using an axe, (which you should be if you're a good player) then penetrating blow is going to give you 20% armor penetratoin and if you want constant 20% penetration just use a W/Mo (not the best class nowadays) but, Judges Insight will give you that 20% armor penetration for quite some time if you smite yourself up.

Frenzy + Vampiric ftw. laffin

I also found the best way to test mods is to goto the 100 armor dummy in the training grounds and time how long it takes to destroy it with each mod. And not use any skills other than the weapon and the mod. Here you will find the vampiric is definitely better than the sundering. To test furious you have to use your adrinilin skills, furious is about like sundering though 10% "chance" just isn't good enough when guaranteed is much better as with vampiric.

Now if you hit "all the time" furious would be beneficial because it would bring your Eviserate up more often, but, that's always the key and point, you don't always hit all the time. Thus you have to rely on "chance" all too often.

Of course I expect arguements, but, I've seen what I've seen what I've seen (Abbott & Costello) and Vampiric just wins out overall. (smile)

Uhh...wild blow does hit all the time provided you ain't got a miss chance.

BBoy_Manchild · Feb 11, 2006, 07:23 AM // 07:23

its sad that elemental mods are more effective then sundering, even if you are not using conjures or hexes that are triggered by elemental damages
i just dont like it when warriors and rangers use the elemental weapon ALL THE TIME, do they enjoy doing less damage to rangers and wasting a preffix while attacking softies?
put that fiery newb stick away wammo, you shouldnt even be attacking other wars in the first place

Studio Ghibli · Feb 14, 2006, 11:49 PM // 23:49

.. with an elemental bow string, I assume I do extra damage against warriors 'cause their armor normally protects against physical?

Incidentally, is there a chart out there somewhere that calculates damage versus armor class with armor penetration in mind?

Cjlr · Feb 15, 2006, 01:00 AM // 01:00

If you actually work it out, sundering is a piece of crap. Well, not completely, but it might as well be compared to the extra damage a good vampiric mod will give you. I'll use 28 baseline damage, to represent an ideal hit with no extra modifiers. By the way, some of the math might be a little off, I didn't double-check it.

Casters normally have 60 armour, which as you (should) know means they take 100% damage from attacks. If the sundering kicks in, the target will in effect have 54 damage (60 x 0.9, or 90%), equivelant to roughly 111% damage (I think - correct me if I'm wrong here, someone), and hence take 31.07 damage. 3.07 damage beats the vampiric mod on an ideal hit - but only when it kicks in once every 10 shots. Vampiric = 30 extra damage/10 shots, Sundering = 3 extra damage/10 shots. Also, there's bonelace, judge's, noble, rogue's, etc, but I'm too lazy to go into those.

Warriors have a baseline of 100 armour against physical attacks, including arrows. That 100 is reduced to 90 by the sundering, and therefore the damage increases from 14 (the baseline off a max non-critical hit) to 16.65. That's 2.65 extra damage once every ten shots; even less than against casters. A theoretical (and impossible) elemental sundering bow would be better (it would hit for 2.94 extra damage), but too bad, you can't have one.

It's been my experience that rangers don't shoot other rangers very often (spike versus spike notwithstanding), but nonetheless: Against an AL of 70, the sundering will reduce it to 63 once every 10 hits and strike for an additional 3.03.

So, under ideal conditions, sundering will match vampiric for damage only one in every ten shots. Why is Sundering so prized? A good question indeed...

Moonshine · Feb 15, 2006, 04:16 AM // 04:16

to awnser the opening posters question, "why is sundering so prized?"

it does extra damage and has no drawbacks. yes, other mods may do more damage or have a more noticable effect, but there is no worying about health degen, someone having extra elemental resistance u didnt know about, energy problems or switching between 4 identical looking collector bows when u cant hit to regen health/energy. however, dont pay for it the prices are rediculous. i use a 10/8 sundering mod on my bow, but i'm more interrupt than damage. but when i comes down to it, its extra damage for free, no strings attached thats what makes it good.

Avarre · Feb 15, 2006, 04:25 AM // 04:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by Moonshine

but when i comes down to it, its extra damage for free, no strings attached thats what makes it good.

There most certainly are strings attached... sundering bow-strings!

Sorry, I had to

I suppose it isn't too bad for someone who doesn't want to worry about degen and doesn't use conditions. Zealous is nicer for barrage, but if you're just using interrupts there isn't much else to use that really helps (assuming you don't want to worry about vamp).

Doesn't make it good, still.

Rilder · Feb 15, 2006, 06:16 AM // 06:16

My non max damage no damage mod Shocking Eternal Bow of Fortitude out preforms my 15^50 max sunderign short bow of enchanting any day.

Desbreko · Feb 15, 2006, 07:44 AM // 07:44

I use a 10/10 sundering short bow on my ranger . . . while I'm trapping. When I'm actually shooting things, I'm either regaining energy with my zealous short bow or plugging away from long range with my fiery storm bow. Soon as I get a good composite/recurve/eternal bow, I'm ditching the sundering bow for it and will probably be looking for a 5/-1 vamp string to put on it.