Curse

Studio Ghibli · Jun 12, 2005, 07:21 AM // 07:21

I hope so.

I'm hoping that this was either (1) a miscalculation in anti-bot/anti-farm code that will be remedied soon, (2) or a band-aid solution while a real one is developed.

arredondo · Jun 12, 2005, 09:38 AM // 09:38

EDIT: eh, nevermind... it'll all change in the next patch anyway.

codemonkey · Jun 12, 2005, 02:39 PM // 14:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alderman Sweet

My backpack has a lot more air in it lately. Considering the widespread unhappiness, I imagine Anet will start increasing the drops pretty soon.

I assume by "widespread" your talking mainly about people that complain on messageboards (which I highly doubt is the majority of all players).

First off, I'm sure the GW team has internal counters and statistics for drop rates, and debugging for dropped ratios. So if they find, over the next few weeks, that its not how they want it then it will change.

However, I've seen no visible difference. I did The Wilds 4 times last night (its hard, died lots). My wife and I used NPC henchmen and found probably 10 blue items, 5 purple items, a bunch of scattered gold (pretty much every encounter was 30-50gp), etc. No complaints here.

The items were also, just as a note, not "useless garbage" (which I believe most define as stuff they can't use). Lots of them turned out weapon upgrades, no runes though, but I've got runes in other battles over the week so I chalk that up to random chance. Also found a nice purple sword that my wife's warrior now uses on her Warrior/Elementalist.

Thus far, after logging at least 10 hours of play yesterday through early morning (yeah, a saturday of no life once I managed to mow the lawn) I've not seen any clear indication of item drops being limited in any way/shape form. I hit "your inventory is full" at least 5 times in different missions. And the rare item trader makes it nice to offload some of the fur's I salvaged from the items.

I guess if your intention is to run out and fill you bags with crap then there may be some adjustements, dunno. I play the game as an RPG where I complete quests, missions, trade with folks, talk with local's, and progress in experience levels (adventuring to clear the map and find new towns). Maybe I just don't spend enough time analyzing and writing down every single item in the game as it drops (thus I am not a Arena Net Software Quality Engineer, but a guy playing a video game).

CodeMonkey

goku19123 · Jun 12, 2005, 03:10 PM // 15:10

CodeMonkey, this is what we're talking about though.

Some people experience no change, or even an increase.
Some people experience very few, to no, drops over an extended period of time.

Studio Ghibli · Jun 12, 2005, 03:27 PM // 15:27

Codemonkey,

I suppose you're right. We're imagining this--me, my guildies, those seven other people on the underworld run, all these fellows here, and all these posters on this other messageboard.

http://forums.gwonline.net/showthrea...1&page=1&pp=10

As much as I enjoy replying to posts written with subtle insults, this is a legitimate issue here. Something has happened with drops, and a bunch of us are trying to figure out exactly -what- happened and -how- it happens. People have encountered item issues by farming, yes--but, as I said, this thread isn't about farming. It's about item drops, period.

And people who have written here and in the opposite thread ("What's so bad about farming?" http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/s...2&page=6&pp=25) have had legitimate complaints about item drops, such as failed item drops while running quests, doing missions--and, yes, even EXPLORING.

IE: the way the game should be played.

Again, I'm not complaining about how I can't take my zealot smiter out to Ember Light and drop ten friggin' hydras by spamming divine boon. I'm talking about how I can run any missions and drops are curbed--and, for some people, not happening at all.

As for counting item drops, this is something I've been doing -because- I've noticed the item drops curb off. Pre-patch, I didn't count. Why? Because there was never any hint that those had lessened.

As for what "useless garbage" constitutes, I'm referring to the lack of variety in my item drops, not something I can't use. I'm not item-HUNTING. I'm not looking for two major vigs and a zealous sword hilt and a nice bow. I'm looking for magical items. Stuff I can identify. I'm looking for a pile of damn seashells.

And they're not. As I've cataloged, the majority of my finds have been common drops. Non-identifiable stuff. Just base common gear.

Check the link. Five pages of, "Hmm, something doesn't seem right," and not one post of, "You're an idiot and you're playing the game wrong."

Howling Wind · Jun 12, 2005, 03:47 PM // 15:47

I'm just looking forward to see what other things they do in the next few days or weeks, I think they mentioned they will make more changes next week on farming.

codemonkey · Jun 12, 2005, 04:27 PM // 16:27

I am not discounting that certain play styles will have been altered based on the fact that they've acknowledge of trying to curb item aquisitions by repetative play. I'm speculating mostly that the problem isn't as bad as many state it is.

There are many posts using terms like "all", "impossible", "everyone", "useless", and other keywords that tend to state that everyone is having drastic issues, and that they have basically destroyed the game because you cannot go around collecting junk and "filling your pack."

As for subtle insults, read into it as you will, that's up to you. I'm stating that "everyone" is _not_ having problems. I'd be curious to know how many people would notice if they didn't post the update message stating that they curbed farming. That would be interesting to see.

Ghibli, I'm not saying that your specifically complaining, but that in general that is all I continue to see. There are plenty of folks posting how "nothing good" is dropped or how they "nerfed all item drops" -- when that's obviously not true. If it were then 100% of everyone would be able to agree.

Trying to figure out what happend without being able to sit down and ask specifically of the GW team what they have changed it is going to be hard to sort anything out. You might as well try to predict a dice roll. A game of hundreds of people in hundreds of different areas of the game at hundreds of different levels, with random drops, random leaders, random rarity...

You can look for a pattern I guess, like what level players are getting "no drops" and perhaps what class they are, and how many NPC/human's they're adventuring (and where they're adventuring). But then you also have to sort through the people with valid responses and those that just want to moan and complain

I.e:

2 Human Players (W/Ele, R/Mo)
4 NPC's
Areas: The Wilds, Ettin Back, Bloodstone Fen
Changes in drops: None.
Time Played: ~5 hours
Noticed patterns:
1. Purple items found (avg. 3 per human per area)
2. Gold Items: None
3. Runes: One (minor divinity)
4. Rare Materials: Plenty (silk, steel, fur, etc.)
5. Common Materials: A fair amount
6. Upgrade Items (axe, staff, bow)

I mean, if you want to "test" the gaming environment you might as well ask educational questions of everyone and try to derive a pattern. Its a whole lot easier then trying to speculate based on 5 pages of posts. Agree? I'm not sure what other questions could be taken out to try to get a better estimate of diff's from the drop issues...

CodeMonkey

Akshara · Jun 12, 2005, 10:19 PM // 22:19

Quote:

2 Human Players (W/Ele, R/Mo)

This is actually significant, Codemonkey. I've not noticed a lessening in frequency of drops when I'm in a party with other players, maybe less quality of drops, but that's fine with me because I just sell whatever off to the merchant or give lower lvl items to newer arrivals at really cheap prices.

If one reads through most of the the threads about this, there does seem to be a pattern to when the "all drops stop" thing happens...

1) If one tries to go out solo
2) If one goes out with a henchmen party only
3) In either situation above, if one attempts multiple quests at the same time, or dies frequently and has to redo instances or fight the same types of creatures repeatedly.

I've actually experienced this, and it's not a just a feeling or impression. After a not so very long period of time all drops stop, including gold. This isn't limited to just that instance either, and can begin to show up anywhere one teleports to, and persists after logging off and back on again.

For the time being I've just decided to change my approach, and turn in quest rewards one at a time rather than doing a bunch of them in one loop. For me, I'm not that concerned about the quality of drops, since I still come away from a party mission or quest with a good amount of stuff to sell. It's really the issue of the drops stopping altogether when going out with henchmen by oneself.

Last night I did that quest from Druid's Overlook where you have to kill that Wind Rider boss in the North. My henchman party didn't do so well, and we died a lot. After awhile, we just stopped getting drops and gold. I even went back to town and started over to get rid of the death penalty, but that didn't help. I finished the quest anyway just for the exp, but it was kind of a bummer that half way through there were no more items or gold drops.

codemonkey · Jun 13, 2005, 12:10 AM // 00:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by Akshara

This is actually significant, Codemonkey. I've not noticed a lessening in frequency of drops when I'm in a party with other players, maybe less quality of drops, but that's fine with me because I just sell whatever off to the merchant or give lower lvl items to newer arrivals at really cheap prices.

...

I went out last night from Yaks Bend to Icetooth cave (I think thats the name) by myself with the henchmen and I never experienced nasty missing drops. I used my 19th level character since I'd never mapped out there before (only got to the cave and a little beyond). I died once (got nailed by too many crushers), and the entire game crashed at the cave door after killing the ettins. So I had to re-login and do it again. Never had an issue w/ complete null drops though.

I've not found a way to reproduce what your speaking of yet.

CodeMonkey

Sierra · Jun 13, 2005, 02:52 PM // 14:52

Like some others have mentioned, by biggest gripe is getting items for collectors. Massive Jawbones in the desert for example. I can't solo these, so I brought henchies. In fact they pretty much kick my arse if I'm not really careful and/or if they manage to reach Alesia right in the beginning. I found some right outside of a portal and thought "sweet" . . I'll just zone in and out killing these. Either way, it'll take a long time with henchies. I got 1 jawbone before they stopped dropping. They didn't even drop gold anymore. I went back to town and walked back out there but still seemed to be having the same problem. I finally resorted to buying some off players in town, but had to pay 400-500 gold per one.

codemonkey · Jun 13, 2005, 03:06 PM // 15:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sierra

Like some others have mentioned, by biggest gripe is getting items for collectors. Massive Jawbones in the desert for example. I can't solo these, so I brought henchies. In fact they pretty much kick my arse if I'm not really careful and/or if they manage to reach Alesia right in the beginning. I found some right outside of a portal and thought "sweet" . . I'll just zone in and out killing these. Either way, it'll take a long time with henchies. I got 1 jawbone before they stopped dropping. They didn't even drop gold anymore. I went back to town and walked back out there but still seemed to be having the same problem. I finally resorted to buying some off players in town, but had to pay 400-500 gold per one.

WOw, that's a lot of cash for each. I sold 6 ebon spider legs, and 12 tangled seeds without any problem (and got them without any problem). Although the only ones I've had issue with are the jawbones because its like 10 kills per 1 drop. That was no different before the patch though. I've never had lucky finding too many of those. Probably because spiders & thorn stalkers are more common then the bohemoths (sp?) are.

Logged lots of hours this weekend, never seen a "no drop" occur. Very odd. Maybe I just don't jump in/out of zones enough

CodeMonkey

Uzul · Jun 13, 2005, 03:11 PM // 15:11

i ran some testing runs in order to reproduce the no-drop effect on my mo w (lvl20) my ele me (lvl20) and my wmo (lvl14, 15 after tests)

following tests were done:

-aya- mo/w [solo]
1) snake dance - my casual griffon hunt to get refunds back....
no special drops, mostly white and some blue items, feathers - but constant crap-drops... nothign changing after doing the same thing 2 times (must have killed more than 20 griffons in a row)
2) kryta mission - 1st run: 2 golden salvages from zombs, one purple axe & one purple bow from drakes later - else was quite normal.. but drakes are so beefed i only can 4 at once for a calm fight ( was 12-14 before beefing their air magic some weeks ago, but it's still possible to dodge the orb ^^ ) anyhow - more spiked crests and crappy stuff than some weeks ago but still okay drops and nothing decreasing after a while or whatever.
3) kryta mission - 2nd run: all zombies dropped plain white stuff; nothing else that white salvages, weapons, ... i got worried... went on to mergoyle - first blue cane...
drakes gave me a golden bow and a golden shield: 2 purple items and 2 blues... lots of crests and some normal white items again.
4) xploration areas [solo] went out and travelled from LA to divinity - slaying whatever i saw - nothing special, few blue items... one rare hammer (purple)
then i soloed near ice cave - everything normal (drops are crap there anyway ^^)
-yoko- ele/me [solo & with alesia_lina support]
solo action is harder to pull: wasnt able to kill lots of the same monsters in a row - went to LA and started fire imp hunt - only fire imps for 30 minutes - nothing changed while doing it - several gold drops, some crappy items and lots of glowing hearts and soem coal

rena [solo]
not lvl 20 yet - but i went solo with her nearly 95% of the time --- tried mergoyle hunts, ettin hunts, imphunts - seemed all normal. xploring from LA to bergen and then south to fishermans went well without any decrease in drops.
desert: soloing losarus near destiny _ okay

maybe it's because i dont count up every golddrop and every rare item i get but i haven't noticed anything else than a slight decrease in the drops and some changes to places i been to already --- reproduction failed so far.

edit: i seen people mention their inventory won't get so stuffed anymore - that's sth i can agree too: it feels like there are slightly less drops: but some places still force me take 2 salvage items out there to be able to pick up till the very end - okay: i need some food now
later folks!

codemonkey · Jun 13, 2005, 03:23 PM // 15:23

Last night I made my way south of Ettins Back or whatever its called and found a purple sword (upgrade item pommel of defense), a rune of some type, 3 jawbones, 12 plant fibers, 4 or 5 blue items, a couple more purple items that salvaged to medium powered upgrade items (god these things are hard to sell), and each monster dropped roughly 53-70gp.

I think GW likes me. I've managed to find some pretty cool stuff (and a couple bow strings too just last night). I did unlock two items with just one magic axe which then salvaged to wood!

CodeMonkey

Studio Ghibli · Jun 13, 2005, 03:25 PM // 15:25

I have no idea no idea anymore. ;(

Uzul · Jun 13, 2005, 03:30 PM // 15:30

i will be back ingame in about 2 hours maximum i think (and hope ^^)
my suggestion: whoever experienced total-no-drops can meet aya and we do whatever you did to get nothing at all: seems like not everyone is affected by this...

Studio Ghibli · Jun 13, 2005, 03:38 PM // 15:38

I've never experienced a total no-drops.

To clarify my hyperbolic language, the drops aren't ruined. Rather, I notice a decrease as compared to how drops used to be. They aren't necessarily bad; they're simply not as fun anymore. I'm not pulling as many blues as before, as many purples as befores.

I don't care about elite gear. I just like finding magic items and identifying them.

A guildie of mine was farming yesterday. It was confusing.

Either way, I'm starting to acclimate to the new drops. Starting to become normal to me. o_O I haven't seen a rune--any rune!--in a long, long time, and that's becoming a-o-k.

codemonkey · Jun 13, 2005, 03:56 PM // 15:56

I'm not opposed to a lowering of drops because it makes lower level items more valuable in a sense. As an old DM of D&D I've found that giving away +4 weapons a lot made them seem less magical. So in newer campaigns the first time you saw a +1 weapon was at 5th level or so. When a player found a +2 or +3 it was considered highly precious to them, and godly by anyone standards. A year before they would have tossed that simple +3 to the side because they're dual +4 scimitars of life stealing were much cooler.

The same can occur here. If you get a rune (even minor) everytime you play, or a ton of nice gear then it becomes random crap to fill your inventory and when something slightly better is found you really just see it as "gear" rather then a great find.

However, in a massive multiplayer scenario that small alteration can affect a lot of people and make the game play very different. All in all, usually people feel ripped off for awhile until they get used to the adjustments (similar to what I call "beta syndrom" when you get the real game and its much more SLOW compared to the accelerated beta drops).

CodeMonkey

Creston · Jun 13, 2005, 04:07 PM // 16:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by codemonkey

I'm not opposed to a lowering of drops because it makes lower level items more valuable in a sense....etc.

CodeMonkey

While I agree with the general gist of your post, the drops in the Desert and Southern Shiverpeaks have, for me, been abysmal. I don't even remember what color purple is. I found one gold a couple of days ago, and it was a non max dmg wand and as its mod it had *gasp* +3 to energy while hexed. Wooooot!

In the terms of what you are saying, the Crystal Desert should be comparable to having played for a year. I should be finding the equivalent of the +3 swords. Instead, I'm finding rusty daggers...

I'm avoiding bosses now. They no longer EVER drop anything for me, so why bother trying to kill them? For that +2% that's really not +2%? I can do without it. Unless a boss is of my class (good luck trying to find those monk bosses...), I ignore it. They used to drop good stuff, now they drop nothing.

The funny part is that some people say there simply is no change, but so far my loot drops have been truly pathetic. Level 20 ascended character in Southern Shiverpeaks, and I get stacks of 68 gold (to be shared with 8 characters) and white pieces of junk. We can't both be right, and yet both sides are convinced that their story is true. I really wonder what's going on, but I doubt Anet is going to give any kind of answer.

I have yet to actually FIND something that I'm using with any of my characters. All the stuff that they have is bought in Lion's Arch.

While I know that people say that items 'are not important' in GW, and that it's your skills etc, I say that finding loot is one of the cooler parts of an RPG. Right now, that coolness factor is most definitely AWOL.

In my opinion, the whole problem with farming etc would be solved if they just upped the drop rate. Not to insane levels, but to such an extent that if you DO a mission, you find something nice, maybe two nice items. If you spend an evening walking around the desert trying to map stuff out, and do the quests, you have a backpack full of stuff, including several nice items (not neccesarily for your class, but you can always trade).
People farm because they are not GETTING the stuff they want due to the course of normal playing.

I really wish someone would explain to me how (potentially) lowering the drop rate somehow makes people NOT grind for their loot...

Creston

Algren Cole · Jun 13, 2005, 04:14 PM // 16:14

I've farmed areas in pre-sear and have max damage weapons...a fortune in dye....purples..golds...blues...runes..vigors.

When I do the same in post-sear there is NOTHING available. ANet has made a few mistakes with this game...patching things without thinking about it etc etc...hopefully they'll make some changes. There is no reason that my pre-sear character should be getting drops I can't even use until post-sear.

Raiddinn Beatdropper · Jun 13, 2005, 04:23 PM // 16:23

I went out and tested this yesterday inadventently.

I wanted to do a collector quest, just for the heck of it, no benefit at all, I was bored out of my mind.

Went to Heros Audience with my War/Mez.

Zoned out into the desert, killed two of the crown of thorns type mobs and got a seed, and I needed 5.

Went back into the city, and back out again, and killed 2 more seeds. This time I got 2 white items, staffs or something weak.

Went back in and out. Killed again, nothing, and by nothing I mean no drops at all.

Killed again, nothing. Killed again, nothing. Killed again, nothing. Killed again, nothing. Killed again, nothing. Killed again, nothing. Killed again, nothing. Killed again, nothing. Killed again, nothing. Killed again, nothing. Killed again, nothing. Killed again, nothing. Killed again, nothing. Killed again, nothing. Killed again, nothing. Killed again, nothing. Killed again, nothing. Killed again, nothing.

I wasnt finishing that collector quest any time soon...

Tsunamii Starshine