Curse

Aeon221 · Apr 09, 2006, 06:38 AM // 06:38

I'm buyin it. Damn right.

I hate the worlds at war thing much as anyone else. Not fair that my guildies have to hope that Rnub or someone else goes and kicks Euro butt just so that we can go slaughter some environment.

If you don't like the way the game is going, don't buy Factions. Its a dollar vote, and its yours to spend. Maybe chapter three or four will be more to your liking.

I personally do not see the huge issue with picking a side. Pick whichever one is doing worse and cap your guild a city!

Course, I'm a minmaxer, so what can I say.

This is like those "eles are broken" threads. Eles aren't broken, their players are.

So, in conclusion: either don't buy it (which is not a hostile comment), or do what the rest of your guild does.

angshuman · Apr 09, 2006, 07:52 AM // 07:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by rayne2550

I wish it was possible to play the game while saying "This is your war, not mine." But to access any content, you can't go around choosing that option with every NPC quest-giver.

Unfortunately, you are trying to Role-Play in a game that has absolutely nothing to do with role-playing. I completely understand where you are coming from, but you are not going to find any meaningful choices (the single most important element of role-playing) or a deep storyline in any of Guild Wars' incarnations. Guild Wars is about getting a group of people together and bashing the hell out of monsters or humans at picturesque locations. The concept of character customization that is typical of RPGs has been twisted around to meet the needs of the extreme powergamer via the ability to change your attributes and your skill set at will. The game is all about maximizing the killing power of a group of human-controlled bots. Any attempt on your part to provide any amount of individuality to these bots or role-play such individuals within the quest structure of the game will lead you to nothing but disappointment.

At it's core, Guild Wars is a Co-operative and Competitive Online Action/Adventure game, and a fabulous one at that. Treat it as one, and you'll be happy. There's no role-playing here to be found.

TheMosesPHD · Apr 09, 2006, 08:01 AM // 08:01

I think they're trying to find a way to fit in RPing though, since quite a few ppl have shown interest in it. Gaile mentioned something about it replying to a thread a while back. Basically she said...well...pretty much what my first sentence already said

angshuman · Apr 09, 2006, 08:20 AM // 08:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheMosesPHD

I think they're trying to find a way to fit in RPing though, since quite a few ppl have shown interest in it. Gaile mentioned something about it replying to a thread a while back. Basically she said...well...pretty much what my first sentence already said

As noble as the intention may be, you can't just "fit in" RP elements into a game that has been fundamentally designed as an action game. What Gaile was talking about was probably RP districts in which players desperate enough to RP in this game would be able to hang around and attempt to have in-character conversations. Just look at the "quest" structure of Guild Wars, and compare it against the quest structure of a real RPG like Baldur's Gate or KOTOR or Jade Empire. GW's "quests" are nothing more than a Table Of Contents for the player to find out the next set of monsters to kill.

Jiao Yang · Apr 09, 2006, 09:45 AM // 09:45

Ok, I have a couple of questions..
#1. What happens when too many people or guilds favour a particular faction? Will there be some kind of balance or wont this matter?
#2. Can I choose different factions with different characters?

Rex the Unloving · Apr 09, 2006, 11:24 AM // 11:24

i think it will be interesting when people go:

Player1: Hey guys lets all go kill horse/lizard/kappa thingies!
Player2: Oh yeah lets go!!!
Player3: Hey im up for it man.
Player4-8: YEAH!!!
Player3: Wait this chump, player 2 is wearing Luxon 15k armor! TURTLEHUGGER!!!
Player2: I just want to get this mission done....
Player4-8: GO BACK TO YOUR JADE OCEAN LOSER!!!
Player2: .........
Player1: Lmao, Luxon are super gai.
Player2: I already did all of the quests for the Kurzick though...
Player: Player1, kick this Luxon chump....

Or in town

One: WTS This!
Two: Sure ill buy it.
One: How many?
Two: A Kajillion
One: Meet at storage.
Two: Okay
One: WTF Your a gai gothic loser!!! YOU KURZICK BICH!!!!
Two: I just want my stuff, im paying you!
One: #!$% YOU!!!!!
Trading Session Cancelled
Player One has Ignored you.
Two: .....
One: HEY EVERYONE TWO IS A KURZICK BICH!!!!
Everyone: OMFG GET THE #@$% OUT YOU KURZICK!!!

my reaction would be:
/sigh

I am also Pro-Kurzick.
what would you rate people like this lol...

Tingi · Apr 09, 2006, 11:37 AM // 11:37

LOL. thats jst funny. somehow i dont think thats gona happen TOO much, or to quite that extent

hunter · Apr 09, 2006, 04:36 PM // 16:36

Solution: take your armor off in towns or go to cantha and buy the cheapest armor set (cantha is neutral no?)

Rayne Nightfyre · Apr 09, 2006, 06:01 PM // 18:01

I do understand the fact that those trying to role-play (myself) are inevitably going to be disappointed. Is that right and fair? In my opinion, no. I'm someone who actually reads the quest-logs, watches cutscenes (except when I've seen them 237 times), and actually follows the storyline. True, it's possible to go through the game clicking "Yes," "Accept Reward," and completely missing the details of the story. Even though Guild Wars is not your usual RPG, there's no reason to give up role-playing. Although I wish A-Net did cater to role-player's interests a bit more, I honestly have no complaints. The game still rocks, and is still an ingenious concept. Regarding the Luxon/Kurzick spat, notice this:

"In a land divided, unity is power." - on the back of the Pre-Order Package case.

So it is unity that we will strive to attain, whether or not it means unity between the two factions. So my point is that the game has a storyline, and if you choose to, you can indeed role-play. I'm currently working on a piece of creative writing that illustrates our stand in this "dilemma," and will put a link to it here when I'm finished.

I have just finished writing it, and I took a few screenies to go along with it, too.

Here's that link:

http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/s...72#post1221972

Rex the Unloving · Apr 09, 2006, 10:49 PM // 22:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by hunter

Solution: take your armor off in towns or go to cantha and buy the cheapest armor set (cantha is neutral no?)

i think the three factions are the Kurzicks, Luxons, and Zaishen, Canthan is what they all are. unfortunately, the Kurzicks get the super ugly kids...... bald front, hair back.

dreamhunk · Apr 10, 2006, 02:25 AM // 02:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by angshuman

Unfortunately, you are trying to Role-Play in a game that has absolutely nothing to do with role-playing. I completely understand where you are coming from, but you are not going to find any meaningful choices (the single most important element of role-playing) or a deep storyline in any of Guild Wars' incarnations. Guild Wars is about getting a group of people together and bashing the hell out of monsters or humans at picturesque locations. The concept of character customization that is typical of RPGs has been twisted around to meet the needs of the extreme powergamer via the ability to change your attributes and your skill set at will. The game is all about maximizing the killing power of a group of human-controlled bots. Any attempt on your part to provide any amount of individuality to these bots or role-play such individuals within the quest structure of the game will lead you to nothing but disappointment.

At it's core, Guild Wars is a Co-operative and Competitive Online Action/Adventure game, and a fabulous one at that. Treat it as one, and you'll be happy. There's no role-playing here to be found.

The funny part is that, when anet first came out with the game. It stated on the pre-order box it foucas on rpg .

I personaly think anet has not taken the time to really work on the rpg. Hack and slash will only take you so far as a game. With out good rpg the game will only be grind. Grind is the worst part of any rpg game. RPG players don't call it grind we call it hack and slash.

I mean you can only make the AI that much harder. But you find people soon getting bored even with the harder AI. Why because it is mindless hack and slash. You need to make the game have strong story. That is what rpg is all about. All the pretty graphics will only last so long.

Anet did say they are looking into ways to improve the rpg. I have yet to see it. The only thing I seen get better is the dialog box. But it was ony use for one quest and mossions.

I also think that GW will always behinde wow in the mmoprg market. I also think when sony and other game compies lunch their games. GW will have a hard time competing with the new games when they come. I think must or all rpg players will jump ship. I am sure of it.

Rhedd · Apr 10, 2006, 04:55 AM // 04:55

You know what makes me feel old? I'll tell you... It's when I read a conversation like this, and I start to discuss roleplaying before "roleplaying games" meant computer games, and then I realize that most of the people that I'll be talking to don't remember a time before such things.

Okay. I'm old. I can accept that. Now, young'uns, get ready to hear one of those I-walked-fifty-miles-to-school-in-the-snow-with-no-shoes-stories.

Roleplaying isn't something that's done to you, it's something you do. Kids these days... they want everything handed to them.

What do you want A-net to hand you before you "can" RP? It's not up to them. It's up to you. The only thing that you need to roleplay is a setting that's evocative enough to spur the imagination. Does GW have that? I'd say yes.

I didn't say you had to have quests that gave you choices. I didn't even say you had to have a good story. Heck, sometimes a badly handled story makes people want to expand on it more than a good one does. GW gives you more tools than you even need to roleplay; You have a persona which you have enough control over to identify with. You have a world that's interesting to explore, both physically and otherwise. That's enough.

You people that learned "roleplaying" from computer games often don't actually know the meaning of the word. RPing doesn't require experience points, character advancement, quest rewards, monster variety, or any of that crap. If the people you're RPing with are good enough, and YOU'RE good enough, you can have an extremely satisfying time if your characters are all sitting in the same comfy room, not slaying anything or going anywhere.

So is GW an RPG? I'm not sure. That term, when applied to computer games, seems to mean a game that's based on acquiring loot and XP to constantly increase the little numbers on your character sheet. Maybe GW isn't an RPG by the standards of the genre, then, but you sure as Hell can roleplay in it. Anyone that says otherwise either doesn't understand what that means, doesn't like to roleplay anyway, or is just plain lazy.

Now that I've said all that... Here comes the interesting bit...

I don't thing GW is very easy to roleplay in.

Why? Well, I've thought about that a lot, but leave it to my loving spouse to easily come up with the reason; There's too much stuff to DO.

Some of the best online roleplaying I've ever experienced was in chat forums. There's nothing to do there but talk, so the roleplaying is intense.

In GW, however, there are plenty of things, both PvP and PvE, to keep you honestly busy. Are you going to roleplay (say "pretend") to be a merchant, when you're so busy actually selling wares in Lion's Arch? Nope.

Can you play a great and powerful mage, questing for ancient secret knowledge, when you know that Grawl will kick your pale butt and that spell you want can be found on a Minotaur corpse? Hmm.

Roleplaying... good roleplaying... comes from idle time, and GW is actually a good enough game that it doesn't really give you much of that.

Still, though, I know the background and motivations of my characters, and I'd rather hear about someone's hatred for Luxons than their hatred for Iraqis or Seinfeld, so, I guess I'm one of those folks who's always going to be disappointed in GW. But if you're going to tell me that I "can't" roleplay here, then you're probably the reason I turn off the local chat channel these days. ^_^

KvanCetre · Apr 10, 2006, 05:15 AM // 05:15

Man, an MMO with warring factions that you must choose between? What an awful idea. I'm glad no other MMOs force you onto a side in a war....

dreamhunk · Apr 10, 2006, 05:21 AM // 05:21

On top of that a war that is only fueled by hate and sence less killing! I will have no part in it. I also wonder what this teachies younger kids too.

Arknow · Apr 10, 2006, 05:55 AM // 05:55

many games have "factions" and you must pick one side or the other, nothing new

i think people who max faction with one side or the other should be KoS(Kill on Sight) in the other city(s), makeing the choice that much more important
and at the same time stoping the "flip flop"

if you killed ..... 500,000 dutch lets say, you think they would just let you say im sorry let me in?

UndeadRoadkill · Apr 10, 2006, 06:16 AM // 06:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by Akhilleus

in all seriousness, it would be nice to have a third side for mediation; like an unbiased traders union that sells weapons to both sides, but stays out of the fight, or something of the sort.

I think this would be cool also. They could have given us several things like that in this little Canthan refugee saga we have now, but they just had us go "DURR KILL EM ALL" instead.

Imagine going up to Firstwatch Sergio, and saying, "hey, so-and-so's kid is missing, the refugees verge on violence, go out and do your job," or going to the son and daughter in LA and saying, "hey, you little brats, your parents are looking for you. Go home, or people are going to get killed because of you." (though did anyone notice that when you wipe out the other settlement, the leader says 'good job' and pats you on the back and seems to completely forget about their offspring? "Who? My daughter? What?")

I guess it's just a little extra add-in to hold us over until the release, but I wish they would have options like this in the actual factions release.

Kariston The Swift · Apr 10, 2006, 06:45 AM // 06:45

Didn't they say that a neutral faction would be available as well? Atleast I thought I read that a while back.

Snowman · Apr 10, 2006, 08:53 AM // 08:53

It wont be just a war between thse factions, it will inevitibly be a war between alliances as well, even within a chosen faction.

By this I mean there will be will Alliances trying their best to keep control of certain outposts, as Im sure it will come down to 3/4 BIG alliances who control certain out posts the most.

For the large part, I think getting the community passionate about something like this is a good thing, Its called Guild Wars, people expect a war..

However, apart from their looks there doesnt seem to be anything between them, so why get all worked up about it? just play one side till you done all the quests then play the other side! simple as that.

3/4 months down the line it wont even matter and you wont even care which side is winning or losing.. you wont feel permenantly attached to either side.

If you do permenantly attach yourself to one side, then the only loser will be yourself, as you will lose out on half the game.

Lady Lozza · Apr 10, 2006, 12:15 PM // 12:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rhedd

You know what makes me feel old? I'll tell you... It's when I read a conversation like this, and I start to discuss roleplaying before "roleplaying games" meant computer games, and then I realize that most of the people that I'll be talking to don't remember a time before such things.

Okay. I'm old. I can accept that. Now, young'uns, get ready to hear one of those I-walked-fifty-miles-to-school-in-the-snow-with-no-shoes-stories.

Roleplaying isn't something that's done to you, it's something you do. Kids these days... they want everything handed to them.

What do you want A-net to hand you before you "can" RP? It's not up to them. It's up to you. The only thing that you need to roleplay is a setting that's evocative enough to spur the imagination. Does GW have that? I'd say yes.

...

Still, though, I know the background and motivations of my characters, and I'd rather hear about someone's hatred for Luxons than their hatred for Iraqis or Seinfeld, so, I guess I'm one of those folks who's always going to be disappointed in GW. But if you're going to tell me that I "can't" roleplay here, then you're probably the reason I turn off the local chat channel these days. ^_^

Agreed!
I think most of the gamers probably don't even know what a good old-fashioned tabletop RPG is, let alone have played one.
Even games like Oblivion - slated to be at the top of the RPG genre, is not truly RPG.
And now as I am writing this I remember that I've had this conversation with someone on these boards already.

Most of the people who are missing the fun of "rping" are those who don't bother to read the quest log, skip the cut scenes, and leave their imagination completely to one side the moment they log on to the computer.
You need to be able to put your characters in context, you need to be able to really "respect" them to enjoy GW or indeed any other computerised RPG. It's like having to choose a weapon in TES, sure you can do all of them, but if you want to make one YOUR weapon, you have to really pick one. Many people no doubt simply say - hey I want to wack a sword around, that's what fantasy rping is about - and that is that, they wack the sword around and get it levelled up and don't really think about it. However RPGs are not about owning AI or even other players.

When I started playing Oblivion I thought I would start by giving the bow a go, simply because I thought my lovely little elf wasn't the sort to be getting blood splattered across her clothes. It was hard not to revert to the sword - that was what I had been using in Morrowind, but I stuck with it and I can truly say that I think my character, Raven, is thankful for it - she is a brilliant archer

Whether you wish to role-play or not, really is beside the question in the general enjoyment of this particular game, everything is there for you to help you define your character both in terms of play style and "personal" style. Mesmers look posh and snotty - my mesmer is very, very posh, and stylish I should mention. Her greatest achievement is her wardrobe. My elementalist could be Cynn's twin, and my monk is a very softly spoke, and generally nice girl. I actually watch the movies when my monk is team leader just to hear THAT voice - which so isn't her's - and laugh myself silly.

Enjoyment of the game shouldn't be measured by what Anet does and doesn't do, but by what you make of it by meeting new people, playing with your guild and your friends, and most of all trying to enjoy and appreciate what HAS been put into the game and thinking of how YOU can improve that FOR YOURSELF.

I agree that in terms of the storyline, GW is a little shallow, but honestly in an MMORPG how many "heros" can you have? Surely we can all be Chosen but we can't all be the "Nerevarrene".

EDIT: Edited to remove the length of the quote, apologies Rhedd.

Mordakai · Apr 10, 2006, 01:58 PM // 13:58

Good discussion about the nature of role-playing, and why computer games can never replace your own imagination as the best source of stories...

But if the "Kill All _______", are any indication of the future, our choices will have dramatic and "real" effects on the game world. And that makes me very excited...

Back to the idea of rayne

Quote:

I wish it was possible to play the game while saying "This is your war, not mine." But to access any content, you can't go around choosing that option with every NPC quest-giver.

There should be alternative "peaceful" missions that also give XP, so those that don't want to take part in the Faction Wars still have alternatives to earn rewards.